Finetuned my post seduction game with amazing results

This post is basically an update on a previous thread (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=189844). To summarise, I was having great success with seduction, had multiple prospects, escalating to sex without much difficulty and many of these girls seemed highly interested and full of compliments. But then, out of nowhere, that interest would drop and they'd kick me to the curb. This same cycle would happen with all of the girls I started to like and it was getting extremely frustrating.

There's no faulting my seduction game, which basically consists of a charming and charismatic approach, getting to know the girl, discovering her passions and separating myself from the usual wannabe player/pimp crowd. I build rapport and comfort, we have a laugh and a joke and I let her see my potential as a long term boyfriend. Then when her defences are down I escalate the sex talk and start raising the tension. Afterall, she has no reason to feel like a slvt if she sees me as boyfriend material. By the time we next meet, she's usually desperate for me to fvck her and comfortable enough too. All I need to do is get her alone, be it my place, her place, a hotel room or the back of a car.

And yes, I lay a lot of this groundwork via texting, emailing and chats on the phone.

So how can my seduction game be so flawless and yet I struggle to maintain their interest for more than 2-3 dates? I figured if flattery and charm worked so well in seducing these women, it would also keep them interested. WRONG! With some good advice from guys on this forum I started to realise that's exactly the mistake I've been making.

Seduction and post seduction are two entirely different games. Seduction is like an advertising campaign - you show her what you have to offer, give her a taste of what it would be like to be with you and get her to want you. But it's no good continuing to sell yourself once she's already got you. And when she's got you, your novelty is going to wear thin...unless you make her work to keep you.

That is the basis of the post-seduction game. You start withdrawing the attention you gave her and mixing it up. Hold back your replies to texts and make her wait. Don't return her compliments and don't acknowledge her sweet talk. Act like you're not interested for a while, then out of nowhere surprise her with a flattering text or a phone call. Tease her with your attention. Let her chase you, let her experience moments with you, but never allow her to get you.

So, I've been putting this into effect since my last post and for the past month I've had women becoming infatuated with me. I had sex with a girl a couple of weeks ago and she's told me she might be falling for me. Another girl told me she will do anything to keep me...and true to her word, I got her to do some things of a sexual nature she'd never done before. There's another woman who is really into me and I've just been calling her up when I'm horny and we'll meet up and have sex. I also have 3 other prospects in tow.

Previously I might've reassured them after sex, cuddled up and got mushy, sent a text later in the day saying what a great time I'd had and so on. Now, I just find an excuse to leave after sex and I wait a day or two before I text. And when I do it's just a casual hello. I'll often get a number of texts and missed calls before that point asking where I am, if I'm not interested and so on.

At one time I would've felt guilty about acting this way, but this is what they want. This is what keeps them interested and it's working great for me too.

This is absolutely spot on and the secret. I had been going through the same problem until I realised where I was going wrong and changed the method with successful results. If I were to give anybody a single piece of advice it would basically be this thread.

Right on... The thing is, its not bad to do these things - because you're not hurting anyone. That's what people need to understand. They're so afraid of being a jerk - when a jerk intentionally leads people on, uses them, treats them poorly, etc. So, they stick to their comfort zone - in fear of going to the opposite extreme - when they're not making any progress whatsoever.

This is just attracting them while still having good intentions. Its being a good person with jerk-like traits. It is not bothersome or wrong - it intrigues them. They like a chase, challenge, and mystery. That's all you are providing. Holding back isn't mean - you have to do it. All you are doing is not showing your cards right away - you aren't cheating anyone.

When girls complain about jerks - they're not talking about their traits. That's what attracts them in the first place. It's the bad person that comes with the territory which they don't like.

Yes, people definitely misunderstand the appeal of the jerk and the player. It's pretty common knowledge now that women like jerks and repel nice guys so a lot of budding players try acting like a bad boy as a way to seduce women.

Yet what I've come to notice is that the most successful players are very smooth when seducing a woman. They charm her, make her feel special. But when they get what they want (i.e. sex) they back off, go do their own thing or move on to the next woman. This is where their inner jerk shows through and this is what drives women crazy for them.

And I agree, it's not wrong to do this and you don't have to become a jerk in order to apply this method. You just go for what you want, have fun, then do your own thing for a while until you're ready to hook up again.

Thanks for this, Jariel

As an aside, where are you meeting all these fresh prospects so quickly? Online? Day game at any random location? Night game at a bar? Or a combination?

Great insight into remaining a challenge, ever after sex. I'm wondering if this would work when you fail to get past LMR too. I know I have cuddled afterwards, and had the "I'm not ready for a relationship" speech from the girl.

Heartiste talked about this in 2010, he calls it PCPE, or post-coitus premature exit. His blog is a must-read if you want to look further into just how jerks and *******s keep the girls interested.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/why-you-should-leave-after-sex/

I'm going out on a limb here, but you don't really see animals settling down for a nice long cuddle after mating. The male usually leaves the scene immediately after busting.

Jariel said:

I've had women becoming infatuated with me.

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Its funny because when I think about the last time I became infatuated over a girl and would basically do anything for her like chump it was because she did all the things you are now doing. Go from really hot to cold, distant, indiferent etc.. after I boned her at the flip of a switch. so yeah, it works.

Yeah... That's the thing - they don't realize the guy is a jerk, or that they got played until its too late. They try bringing back the person they saw in the beginning, and that's when they get caught up in the challenge of trying to change them. They lose sight of what's going on, who the person is, etc, and become addicted to the chase instead. Been there before...

It's the tactic that people need to employ - not being a jerk or player. It just comes with the territory of dating a jerk, since its their whole game. They come on strong, act all nice perfect, get the girl infatuated - then pull away, mess with their heads, play games, etc. Bad girls do this also, and guys need to watch out for it.

It doesn't work with all of them, though. I disagree that all girls want jerks. Usually the girls who specifically seek after them fall for this stuff, and they're not all that great people to begin with. The girl might not also be aware or experienced enough to realize the game being played on them. Everyone is gullible and naive at one point. Being a challenge, on the other hand, is universally attractive, and highly recommended to keep long-term interest.

Kinda skimmed the post. But isn't this just basic game? Going on a date, having a good time, then waiting 2-7 days to ask her out again instead of doing it immediately?

I think what floyd is saying is that there's a big misconception out there about attracting a woman (which I agree with).

The real players DISGUISE the fact that they're a jerk. There's a fundamental difference in how they operate as opposed to what this site advocates.

A lot of guys here have it ingrained in their brains that telling a girl what she wants to hear is going to backfire. I still don't know how this myth got started, but it sure made the rounds all over the internet and desperate men that wanted to improve their dating life fell for it. I believe part of that has to do with marketing dating advice and getting people to follow a certain doctrine and using "scare tactics".

If you ever watch interviews with attractive single women from dating shows, they're usually asked why it didn't work out with their last boyfriend. It usually follows with something like "He started out as a nice guy, made me feel like a princess, but turned out to be a total cheating creep."

Notice the guy STARTED off as being nice? So why don't dating gurus advocate this advice? For one simple reason: It doesn't sell. We're led to believe that these women are cold, calculating emotionless machines. The fact is it just isn't true. They're susceptible to flattery and compliments just like anyone else.

The ironic thing here is that most of the dating advice guys get end up putting women on more of a pedestal than before. They think they have to be super ****y, abrasive, neg, etc. And the reason they do all of these things is because they're insecure. They feel they have to do this in order to attract a woman. It's something the pickup community has perpetuated since it's inception. They're lonely, frustrated, and are out to prove to these girls that they're somebody they're not. And that's exactly why it doesn't work. Women are not stupid. They have intuition. They're highly calibrated socially.

Many guys here simply do not understand how women work. They think they do, but they don't. They've had failures with women their whole life, are angry and upset, and are vulnerable to outlandish advice they see from the internet.

The reality is most women want a CONNECTION. But what does that really mean? Obviously it's going to very from girl to girl, but from my experience, it's very simple: They want a cool guy that has some value and is fun to be around. It's not complicated, it's not rocket science. If a girl has that impression of you, you're halfway there.

I'm certainly not going to try to convince those stubborn guys that the earth is round, let them think it is flat.

evansblue said:

I think what floyd is saying is that there's a big misconception out there about attracting a woman (which I agree with).

The real players DISGUISE the fact that they're a jerk. There's a fundamental difference in how they operate as opposed to what this site advocates.

A lot of guys here have it ingrained in their brains that telling a girl what she wants to hear is going to backfire. I still don't know how this myth got started, but it sure made the rounds all over the internet and desperate men that wanted to improve their dating life fell for it. I believe part of that has to do with marketing dating advice and getting people to follow a certain doctrine and using "scare tactics".

If you ever watch interviews with attractive single women from dating shows, they're usually asked why it didn't work out with their last boyfriend. It usually follows with something like "He started out as a nice guy, made me feel like a princess, but turned out to be a total cheating creep."

Notice the guy STARTED off as being nice? So why don't dating gurus advocate this advice? For one simple reason: It doesn't sell. We're led to believe that these women are cold, calculating emotionless machines. The fact is it just isn't true. They're susceptible to flattery and compliments just like anyone else.

The ironic thing here is that most of the dating advice guys get end up putting women on more of a pedestal than before. They think they have to be super ****y, abrasive, neg, etc. And the reason they do all of these things is because they're insecure. They feel they have to do this in order to attract a woman. It's something the pickup community has perpetuated since it's inception. They're lonely, frustrated, and are out to prove to these girls that they're somebody they're not. And that's exactly why it doesn't work. Women are not stupid. They have intuition. They're highly calibrated socially.

Many guys here simply do not understand how women work. They think they do, but they don't. They've had failures with women their whole life, are angry and upset, and are vulnerable to outlandish advice they see from the internet.

The reality is most women want a CONNECTION. But what does that really mean? Obviously it's going to very from girl to girl, but from my experience, it's very simple: They want a cool guy that has some value and is fun to be around. It's not complicated, it's not rocket science. If a girl has that impression of you, you're halfway there.

I'm certainly not going to try to convince those stubborn guys that the earth is round, let them think it is flat.

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+1 agreed. Alot of pua and don juan advice is utter rubish.. I.e not complementing them etc. The best way to keep a relationship going is to just be confident and rid yourself of insecurity. And just be a quality guy. If your playing 'games' in a relationship it's doomed to fail.

Serg897 said:

Thanks for this, Jariel

As an aside, where are you meeting all these fresh prospects so quickly? Online? Day game at any random location? Night game at a bar? Or a combination?

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2 of these girls I met from POF, another is my mate's half sister (gotta tread careful with that one), another I met on a night out and have a few prospects who are friends of friends.

I also have some girls on the backburner. I drop them a text every now and then just to keep them in tow. I apologise for not being in touch and explain I've been busy. Then I back off for a while. I could probably hook up with them at any time, but they're low priority.

I learned a long time ago that it always pays to keep gathering plates. You can never have too many. Sometimes I drop a few, but there's always more to replace them.

SamTheHobit said:

+1 agreed. Alot of pua and don juan advice is utter rubish.. I.e not complementing them etc. The best way to keep a relationship going is to just be confident and rid yourself of insecurity. And just be a quality guy. If your playing 'games' in a relationship it's doomed to fail.

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I don't think PUA material is designed with relationships in mind.

perseverance said:

I don't think PUA material is designed with relationships in mind.

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I totally agree, but I do think many PUAs and teachers underestimate the seductive powers of charm and flattery, even if just seeking sex.

floydb25 said:

Right on... The thing is, its not bad to do these things - because you're not hurting anyone. That's what people need to understand. They're so afraid of being a jerk - when a jerk intentionally leads people on, uses them, treats them poorly, etc. So, they stick to their comfort zone - in fear of going to the opposite extreme - when they're not making any progress whatsoever.

This is just attracting them while still having good intentions. Its being a good person with jerk-like traits. It is not bothersome or wrong - it intrigues them. They like a chase, challenge, and mystery. That's all you are providing. Holding back isn't mean - you have to do it. All you are doing is not showing your cards right away - you aren't cheating anyone.

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I don't see this as being a jerk at all. It's called Not Smothering Her. It's called having your own interests and leading your own life. I don't know why guys around here look at anything other than prostating yourself before a woman, putting her on a pedestal, and sucking up to her as "jerk behavior".

Jariel said:

There's no faulting my seduction game, which basically consists of a charming and charismatic approach, getting to know the girl, discovering her passions and separating myself from the usual wannabe player/pimp crowd.

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Interesting that you say this, since so many on this forum seem to think that the more you appear part of the "player/pimp crowd", the more attractive you are to women. Just curious, how do you go about seperating yourself?

Jariel said:

It's pretty common knowledge now that women like jerks and repel nice guys

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I completely disagree that women are repelled by nice guys. Unless you are using the PUA definition of "Nice Guy" - a boring, needy, optionless, sissified, simpering wimp. I simply have not observed this to be true in my life experience. Most women even want a nice guy - but he has to be attractive.

Being a nice guy will neither attract nor repel her. She wants a Man of Value. She wants a guy who will make her girlfriends envious. Just like guys want a woman who has good dating Value - not an ug or fattie.

evansblue said:

The real players DISGUISE the fact that they're a jerk. There's a fundamental difference in how they operate as opposed to what this site advocates

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Evansblue, I loved your post, you are totally spot on. An old friend of mine was good with women, he would lie to them, tell them whatever they wanted to hear. Some of it would be considered downright AFC here. I would sit there and watch him fill these girls full of BS. I could hardly believe they would fall for this stuff, since I knew what he was really like. But yeah, he was totally NICE to them, making them feel special, making them think he had feelings for them, etc.

evansblue said:

The ironic thing here is that most of the dating advice guys get end up putting women on more of a pedestal than before. They think they have to be super ****y, abrasive, neg, etc. And the reason they do all of these things is because they're insecure. They feel they have to do this in order to attract a woman. It's something the pickup community has perpetuated since it's inception. They're lonely, frustrated, and are out to prove to these girls that they're somebody they're not. And that's exactly why it doesn't work.

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Spot on, brother.

SamTheHobit said:

+1 agreed. Alot of pua and don juan advice is utter rubish.. I.e not complementing them etc. The best way to keep a relationship going is to just be confident and rid yourself of insecurity. And just be a quality guy. If your playing 'games' in a relationship it's doomed to fail.

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Totally agree, fat hobbit. As others have pointed out, most pickup material isn't geared toward relationships. Most of it is geared toward tricking the girl into thinking you're a high value guy just long enough so that you can get into her pants. But if you're like me and actually enjoy having a LTR, you have little patience for games. And even if you don't, it's better to actually be a quality guy than pretend that you are. But for guys who have absolutely nothing going for them, I guess "game" is their best option.

Zecko: No where did I say he was being a jerk. I said the same thing you did, more or less. No reason to correct that. It's not jerk-like behavior - its having jerk-like TRAITS. Huge difference, and I even specified the two.

A lot of this stuff also varies greatly on the kind of women you are going after, and what your intentions are. Being a jerk works great on dumb, shallow, dysfunctional women who seek out jerks. These girls aren't worth anything, though. It doesn't work on decent girls. They won't tolerate this kind of behavior. They typically date ONE jerk, learn their lesson, and go for the nice folks after that. The retards jump from jerk to jerk, and usually have major issues / are jerks themselves. I don't know one girl who was a decent person and a jerk lover. Just because they ***** and complain and blame the jerk for everything - doesn't make them good people. Like attracts like.

I've started to employ the same method: never letting her know she got you. Question though. Have you ever had a problem with girls ****blocking and going crazy/stalkerish on you once they're infatuated?

Jariel said:

I totally agree, but I do think many PUAs and teachers underestimate the seductive powers of charm and flattery, even if just seeking sex.

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I don't use any PUA methods when interacting with women because most women know the tricks of the trade, so to speak and I cannot carry myself off as a Pick Up Artist, it doesn't come naturally to me and I feel awkward when I cannot be myself naturally.

Your problem was you were investing too quickly after creating a connection and things were going haywire for you, but you seem to have resolved that situation and reaping the rewards from those alterations, so fair play to you.

floyd25 said:

A lot of this stuff also varies greatly on the kind of women you are going after, and what your intentions are. Being a jerk works great on dumb, shallow, dysfunctional women who seek out jerks. These girls aren't worth anything, though

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Trash, yes. I keep forgetting there are a lot of guys who are actually seeking these women out. Birds of a feather and all.