Insights please

Remember this thread?

Same woman.
It's been almost 6 months and I thought things were progressing well.
Maybe they are, maybe not.

We've had a lot of fun in the five months with hardly an issue (other than the odd nutty thing she says like in the linked thread).
Never met someone that I've had more in common with.
Our children have met and approve on both sides.
The words are strong and the visits regular (weekends, one week night per week).
Was starting to really believe I found a non-player, straight shooter, honest woman who knew what she wanted.

So tonight as we talk, she mentions that she'll have to adjust our weekday visit next week so she can meet up with a friend and colleague who will be in town (older fellow). The problem for me is this fellow (we'll call him Earl), used to be her FB (a few months before we met). I said I was cool about it, but she sensed I was off and decided while we were talking that maybe she shouldn't go through with it as it seems to be causing me some awkwardness.

Now an ugly dynamic has been introduced into this seemingly ideal relationship (control). It wasn't my suggestion, but she phrased it in a way that I was responsible. This is one problem.

The bigger problem is, is that not only do I see a complete lack of respect on her side towards me, but also question some of her words and actions of late.
Have things been too smooth?
Did I treat her too well?
Did she get bored and over confident and now wonders if "Earl" will up the FB status given a chance?

In general I'm pretty pleased with myself, but to the average income woman, extreme wealth can be very attractive.

I've known myself to overreact before, am I overreacting here?
Not sure what to do about it.

Thoughts?

SH

yeah your gut is going off like a firecracker and fair enough. It is a major red flag for her to change plans with you to see the old fb. WTF !? is what i'd be thinking also. You need to maintain state control. If it was me I'd just tell her plain out "if you are thinking about seeing an ex **** buddy then dont bother coming back as I wont be here". What do you want in your life ? do you want this type of woman. It is not about control it is about respect...you dont have to be controlling you just have to tell her that you prefer a woman that has left the past behind.

Her behaviour though is indicative of a woman who is too comfortable with her relationship with you. Ask youself this would she even mention or try this on with a guy she was trying to win ? a guy who would walk in an instant if he saw substandard behaviour.

So dont get all emotional and in a huff just express what you are not comfortable with and if she throws a fit which she will dont waiver. See what it comes down to is are you being jealous and possesive or is what you are asking of her something a healthy man would expect from a relationship...if she was just meeting up with a guy friend and you were getting worried then this would be possessive but because the guy is an ex fb then in no way are you being possessive etc...you are just not tolerating bs in your life. The key though is to be calm and non reactive.

window said:

yeah your gut is going off like a firecracker and fair enough. It is a major red flag for her to change plans with you to see the old fb. WTF !? is what i'd be thinking also. You need to maintain state control. If it was me I'd just tell her plain out "if you are thinking about seeing an ex **** buddy then dont bother coming back as I won be here". What do you want in your life ? do you want this type of woman. It is not about control it is about respect...you dont have to be controlling you just have to tell her that you prefer a woman that has left the past behind.

Her behaviour though is indicative of a woman who is too comfortable with her relationship with you. Ask youself this would she even mention or try this on with a guy she was trying to win ? a guy who would walk in an instant if he saw substandard behaviour.

So dont get all emotional and in a huff just express what you are not comfortable with and if she throws a fit which she will dont waiver. See what it comes down to is are you being jealous and possesive or is what you are asking of her something a healthy man would expect from a relationship...if she was just meeting up with a guy friend and you were getting worried then this would be possessive but because the guy is an ex fb then in no way are you being possessive etc...you are just not tolerating bs in your life. The key though is to be calm and non reactive.

Click to expand...

What would Jophil do?

All of the above.

Dear Second Half,
I get the distinct impression you are reverting to type..."things were progressing well."....So where do you see yourself progressing to at 49?.....Your essentially nonchalent approach is definitely DJ approved...My feelings are that this Lady sees her role in life as being an eternal Plate,treat her thus...And don't kid yourself that this other Guy sees her as anything more...Once a FB then always a FB...Real life Scenario...just before Christmas met one of my discarded indulgences from a few years previously,in a Hardware Store,she is buying wall anchors...So she is asking advice from the rather bored young assistant...he seemed to have been suffering a rather bad hangover,about as much use as Tvits on a Bull....To cut a long story short,I steered her to another solution and commented...So you've bought a good Electric drill since we last met?....Upshot is,I pop over in a few hours and fix her Shelf Brackets (You have to seize the moment,they change their moods like the Weather,left another 24 hours she would brood and remember why we parted and what a Cad I had been )....Time for a Coffee?....Sure....as I am draining the dregs from my cup she sidles over to the bench where I was sitting(A completely unnecessary manouvre,watch for these)....I reach across grab her waist,hand up her blouse,no bra...Just like old times.

window said:

yeah your gut is going off like a firecracker and fair enough. It is a major red flag for her to change plans with you to see the old fb. WTF !? is what i'd be thinking also. You need to maintain state control. If it was me I'd just tell her plain out "if you are thinking about seeing an ex **** buddy then dont bother coming back as I wont be here". What do you want in your life ? do you want this type of woman. It is not about control it is about respect...you dont have to be controlling you just have to tell her that you prefer a woman that has left the past behind.

Her behaviour though is indicative of a woman who is too comfortable with her relationship with you. Ask youself this would she even mention or try this on with a guy she was trying to win ? a guy who would walk in an instant if he saw substandard behaviour.

So dont get all emotional and in a huff just express what you are not comfortable with and if she throws a fit which she will dont waiver. See what it comes down to is are you being jealous and possesive or is what you are asking of her something a healthy man would expect from a relationship...if she was just meeting up with a guy friend and you were getting worried then this would be possessive but because the guy is an ex fb then in no way are you being possessive etc...you are just not tolerating bs in your life. The key though is to be calm and non reactive.

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This ^^^^

Id also add Id be getting ready with an exit strategy or at least putting the brakes on any 'progression' with this one. by the way you describe her the old oneitis is setting in, it clearly hasnt for her.
look at your reaction? this is the reaction you should be inducing in her, you are the one in doubt and insecure, got to give some of that back to her man or you are going to get hurt.
Got any FB's you could 'suddenly meet up with'?

window said:

...The key though is to be calm and non reactive.

Click to expand...

I agree and feel the same about all you said. I suppose my issue now is do I want to continue with this bubble headed thinking of hers. How long before it happens again?

Scaramouche said:

I get the distinct impression you are reverting to type..."things were progressing well."....So where do you see yourself progressing to at 49?

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I suppose I am reverting to type... I have worried about this somewhat during this relationship. I enjoy the depth of the relationship, but certainly not the vulnerabilities that go hand in hand with it. I've not fallen into other traps that typically disgust normal women (gifts, flowers, ...). But I do prefer a monogamous relationship. Where I'm progressing is towards a partner. It will take a while as I'm a single father (priority), divorce survivor (where half my wealth walked out the door and need to catch up ... again). I have no ambitions to spend my life alone gaming women for sex (although maybe that's all there is left - a sad day if that realization gets accepted). Regarding her plate status with this guy and with any guy, maybe you're right. The day I accept that, I'll walk. Lots of fish ...

betheman said:

Id also add Id be getting ready with an exit strategy or at least putting the brakes on any 'progression' with this one. by the way you describe her the old oneitis is setting in, it clearly hasnt for her.
look at your reaction? this is the reaction you should be inducing in her, you are the one in doubt and insecure, got to give some of that back to her man or you are going to get hurt.
Got any FB's you could 'suddenly meet up with'?

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Sigh ... agreed. If I need to call an old FB to deal with this, then I'm out. Too much has been said, too much history to reduce this one to a plate. Sadly, I've already gotten hurt. My gut tells me that this is likely already over, it's just a matter of time. Should this be true, another layer will be added to the onion and my illusions regarding relationships gets a little clearer once again.

Thanks for the replies.
I see her today to clear the air or metaphorically get my toothbrush. I'll report in later. Further insights or reactions to this post are welcome. I'm ... confused and need to make sure I swallow the red pill.

SH

Hang in tight, my friend. Don't let it get you down!:box:

Pretty much agree with all of the above, but I'm going to throw somethinge else in the mix. If she doesn't feel the need to cut contact with her (former) FB, then she's either not getting enough emotional fluctuation in your relationship or she's not being sexually satisfied enough by you.

The way I see both of these areas is the woman's need for drama or hot sex has been elevated by one (or more) of her previous BFs. She's become high maintenance in one or both of these areas and you're just not living up to the previous guys (most likely the FB). This isn't something that you're at fault for, it's just what a more experienced woman will expect because she's been conditioned to have it.

Sad to say that this is going to be an on-going problem if you decide to stay with this woman. You may be able to successfully dodge this bullet, but you may get tired of dodging the bullets that will constantly get shot at you.

Desdinova said:

Pretty much agree with all of the above, but I'm going to throw somethinge else in the mix. If she doesn't feel the need to cut contact with her (former) FB, then she's either not getting enough emotional fluctuation in your relationship or she's not being sexually satisfied enough by you.

The way I see both of these areas is the woman's need for drama or hot sex has been elevated by one (or more) of her previous BFs. She's become high maintenance in one or both of these areas and you're just not living up to the previous guys (most likely the FB). This isn't something that you're at fault for, it's just what a more experienced woman will expect because she's been conditioned to have it.

Sad to say that this is going to be an on-going problem if you decide to stay with this woman. You may be able to successfully dodge this bullet, but you may get tired of dodging the bullets that will constantly get shot at you.

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A very interesting post and quite perceptive.
I'm certain that there is enough sex in our lives. Every time we get together (3-4 times per week) it happens and it's good.
It's the second point that you likely have a point. There is no fluctuation in our relationship (at least from me). She was married to a diagnosed bipolar man for 20+ years. I suspect that is where it's coming from. She claims the FB really helped her though some very dark times. Who knows, people say whatever crap they want.

I did speak with her again this morning and as expected the attempt was made to turn it around and place the blame on my "reaction" (although no words were spoken for her to hang that on. Guess it's the way I breathed ).
The situation has been defused somewhat ... for now but only because the real problem got hidden beneath something that can be easier dealt with. In other words, the problem got masked, but still exists.

It's sad, but I will have to consider distancing myself from this one. A little too much unnecessary work ahead that likely won't pan out in the long run.

SH

Look -- I may be out of my place in this discussion, I've never been married and I'm a good decade+ younger than you guys.

But I would say -- if a woman is into you -- she shouldn't be out spending time with guys she used to fvck. I just don't think that's fair.

Maybe if she had never had a FB situation with this guy before it would be different -- "hey he's an old friend who helped me through some dark times" -- that's fine, I can understand female-male friendships a bit better now--but if they've dipped into sexuality I don't see that as being strictly a 'friendship'.

Any man who valued a woman being committed to him, most certainly, would feel uncomfortable with their lady meeting up with an 'older gent' whom she'd had a sexual relationship with.

Why is she stil interacting with him? Has she dropped her other plates for you? No, she is still spinning.

This person sounds very selfish, and no offense, like a b!tch. OP -- you seem like a nice guy who is caring, I imagine if the shoe was reversed you wouldn't feel right doing that to her (aka, going and spending time with a younger female FB)...wouldn't that make her feel uncomfortable?

Women are experts and flipping the tables so suddenly you appear to be the demon simply for wanting to have standards of treatment. Basically this woman wants to play still and you are hurt by it, and she has reverting to being pissy.

SF -- man this isn't the woman for you -- unless behavior like that changes. Or you might want to say 'okay I'll give her benefit of the doubt this time' but if it becomes a trend then you've got the sense to know what's really going on. My $0.02 cents.


PS -- I also want to add:
This whole onion thing -- and talk of red pills.

I mean I don't understand why you say this. Some things just don't work. It's not the universe conspiring against you or the mystical forces of life playing mind games.

It's simply people have varying personalities and levels of acceptable treatment in relationships. Sometimes you meet someone and get to know them, but after a few months you see trends in their personality that are incompatible. This is not some mystery pseduo-science that only the finest DJ's can guide themselves through. It is simply the nature of things, of life, of people.

Don't be too hard on yourself or act like this is another experience reinforcing the haze -- just stay cool -- at least you know some of her behavior now -- and maybe you can give her a chance here and see if she doesn't try to pull that again. You have a right to your boundaries and feelings being respected.

Buddha_Mind said:

PS -- I also want to add:
This whole onion thing -- and talk of red pills.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the post Budda. You're post was not out of place, but well thought out, articulated and made perfect sense.

The blue pill red pill analogy was not reflective of Don Juan-ism or female mysticism, but rather my old friend Mr. Denial. In the past I've endured 6 months additional recovery time because of denial. I just want to make sure I'm not rationalizing her behavior to suit my ego and current discomfort.

Regarding the onion, just another layer of armor due to disillusionment.

SH

Dear Second Half,
Blind Freddy would see that you are going to Bail out on this Girl....Can't say I blame you ....But Women are rather like a Lamb Cutlet,parts are delicious and tender,parts are Bone and Gristle.....The true test of skill between an AFC and a Don Juan is that the latter will back off for a while,but leave advance organizers,excuses for meeting, lying like smoking brand Irons in the fire.... then he comes back like your opposition......Maybe at vulnerable times like Christmas or Her Birthday,to be fed the choicer parts of his cutlet on a regular basis,at the same time of course,enjoying choice cuts from other Tables...You wanna' chew the fat and gristle?Then it's Marriage for you.

Scaramouche said:

Dear Second Half,
Blind Freddy would see that you are going to Bail out on this Girl....Can't say I blame you ....But Women are rather like a Lamb Cutlet,parts are delicious and tender,parts are Bone and Gristle.....The true test of skill between an AFC and a Don Juan is that the latter will back off for a while,but leave advance organizers,excuses for meeting, lying like smoking brand Irons in the fire.... then he comes back like your opposition......Maybe at vulnerable times like Christmas or Her Birthday,to be fed the choicer parts of his cutlet on a regular basis,at the same time of course,enjoying choice cuts from other Tables...You wanna' chew the fat and gristle?Then it's Marriage for you.

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Scaramouche...brother -- quite an interesting analogy...and there may be more truth in the above than anything I've heard in quite awhile...awesome.

But don't we all have some fat and gristle?

I don't believe that a woman that is in love with you, and I mean you can fart in her face and she doesn't mind kind of love - would entertain the thought of seeing an old FB.
Why would she want to upset the applecart at all by seeing an old FB?
I think Scaramouche said treat this woman as a plate - and I have to agree. She is just not that into you.

Second

The fact that you have this many reservations and this chick requires this much discussion should be sending you a clear message......

If your asking these kinds of questions you already know the answer.....

Put your "self" and your self respect first.....

If she was as into you as you "think" she is she wouldn't bother with a FB as your opinion of her would be what she thinks of first and foremost....

Nothing else would matter and she certainly wouldn't turn the resulting (correct) negitive reaction on your part into a power play.....

You seem to be over commited....back away a little bit.....

Might be time to go out with some other women to regain some perspective.....

Over and Out.

Thank you people.
There is no further conflict in me, I see it for what it is.
My biggest mistake with this one is that I thought she was a little different. For a while it seemed so, but timing is relative.

Scaramouche, your cutlet analogy made me laugh out loud.

I do appreciate this site and all the regular posters who take time to help out a perfect stranger!

SH

Scaramouche said:

Dear Second Half,
Blind Freddy would see that you are going to Bail out on this Girl....Can't say I blame you ....But Women are rather like a Lamb Cutlet,parts are delicious and tender,parts are Bone and Gristle.....The true test of skill between an AFC and a Don Juan is that the latter will back off for a while,but leave advance organizers,excuses for meeting, lying like smoking brand Irons in the fire.... then he comes back like your opposition......Maybe at vulnerable times like Christmas or Her Birthday,to be fed the choicer parts of his cutlet on a regular basis,at the same time of course,enjoying choice cuts from other Tables...You wanna' chew the fat and gristle?Then it's Marriage for you.

Click to expand...

this is worthy of Anton Chekhov!

..with a bit more colloquialisms