LTR help: the question of exclusivity

TomSwift · 03-14-2011, 12:08 PM

Guys, I need some sage advice, or at the very least a swift kick in the pants. Long post, so thanks in advance for reading.

I’ve been seeing this woman for a little over two months now. I know it’s still early, but I can honestly say that it is on the right track. We have a great time together, spend weekends together at her place, and maybe a night or two during the week going out. Sex is mind blowing. We’re both throwing around “couple” nicknames like baby, sweetie, honey, etc. and say things like “I love xxx about you” or “I love spending time with you.” We have not exchanged “I love you’s” yet (a good thing...it is a bit early for that) but instead she says “I adore you.”

We have honest communications; at least, I think we did, until the other day. I’m open about my dating habits – I do NOT date multiple women when I find someone I want to spend time with. She knows this, and was extremely appreciative when I told her (it led to sex). So we had a conversation the other day about her dating habits. It started when we were talking about match.com (where we met), and I asked—playfully, not because I was really concerned about it—if she had been on dates with anyone since we met. She said no, but then she said “I don’t want to have this conversation.” I asked her what conversation, and she said it sounded like I was leading to the exclusivity talk. I said I was really just asking, no ulterior motives. I wish she’d left it there, because she then said, “I really like you and love hanging out with you, but I’m not ready to have that talk just yet.” I let it go, but it’s been bothering me since.

My question is why wouldn’t she be ready to talk about it? We already act like we’re a couple. She’s met my friends, she buys me stuff, she’s talking about planning a trip together to the Caribbean this winter. She told me her friends told her she is happier and more relaxed than she’s been in years because of me. And yet she can’t talk about being “exclusive”?

Am I reading too much into her words? Should I just trust her actions and leave it at that, and let her bring up exclusivity when she’s ready? What’s the best way to “be the man” in this case?

Thanks folks.

ecko280 · 03-14-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

Am I reading too much into her words? Should I just trust her actions and leave it at that, and let her bring up exclusivity when she’s ready? What’s the best way to “be the man” in this case?

Thanks folks.

Don't bring it up. Let her ask to be exclusive with you.

All women wants a "CATCH", so continue to have fun with her. If she does not give you a relationship that you're looking for, then keep her on the side as a FB and go out and look for one that will.

betheman · 03-14-2011, 12:55 PM

back off a little, go easy on the compliments, pay more attention to other women, if you dont you will lose attraction.
she is a bit dishonest IMO and by deflecting the discussion she is making a statement she is not wanting to be exclusive at least for now.

get another woman set up, even if its enough to get a few texts while your in her presence, lets her know she isnt getting quite the easy ride she may want.
never discuss the issue again unless SHE brings it up and SHE tells you she wants exclusivity, dont let her get away with the "you know you wanted us to be exclusive" crap, it has to come from her or its pretty worthless

vatoloco · 03-14-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

We have honest communications; at least, I think we did, until the other day. I’m open about my dating habits – I do NOT date multiple women when I find someone I want to spend time with. She knows this, and was extremely appreciative when I told her (it led to sex).

I know you probably did this with the best of intentions but unfortunately with women, this is exactly what gets us into trouble. Never, EVER talk about your dating life with any woman you're dating (especially if you're non-exclusive). It's never a good thing. I avoid the question like the plague: "I don't like to talk about my dating life." "A gentleman doesn't talk about other ladies." etc.

Quote:

So we had a conversation the other day about her dating habits. It started when we were talking about match.com (where we met), and I asked—playfully, not because I was really concerned about it—if she had been on dates with anyone since we met. She said no, but then she said “I don’t want to have this conversation.” I asked her what conversation, and she said it sounded like I was leading to the exclusivity talk. I said I was really just asking, no ulterior motives. I wish she’d left it there, because she then said, “I really like you and love hanging out with you, but I’m not ready to have that talk just yet.” I let it go, but it’s been bothering me since.

Unfortunately my friend, you jumped the gun. Since it's already done, go with it but don't ever bring it up again. Keep in mind that if you're looking for a LTR and she isn't then you two are incompatible...

Quote:

My question is why wouldn’t she be ready to talk about it?

Women are ready when they're ready. They're wired different from us. When she's ready, she'll let you know. "Soooo, are you seeing anyone else?"

In the meantime, start spinning more plates and be ready to drop this one if she doesn't come around.

TomSwift · 03-15-2011, 08:27 AM

Thanks for the advice guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vatoloco

Women are ready when they're ready. They're wired different from us. When she's ready, she'll let you know. "Soooo, are you seeing anyone else?"

In the meantime, start spinning more plates and be ready to drop this one if she doesn't come around

.

Yeah, I hear you V. So far it's like nothing had ever been mentioned, so I'm going to keep my fvcking mouth shut. And if, down the road, she still won't want to talk about it, at that point I'd have to be willing to walk. It is what it is.

vatoloco · 03-15-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

Yeah, I hear you V. So far it's like nothing had ever been mentioned, so I'm going to keep my fvcking mouth shut. And if, down the road, she still won't want to talk about it, at that point I'd have to be willing to walk. It is what it is.

Colossus · 03-15-2011, 11:19 AM

I agree with the others---leave it be. You may have jumped the gun a little bit by asking her if she is dating anyone else...but what's done is done so I would continue on your merry way with her as if the conversation never occurred.

For what it's worth, she is giving you mixed signals...but when in doubt trust her actions. If or when she's ready she'll bring it up. You can NEVER go wrong by letting a woman broach the exclusivity subject.

TomSwift · 03-15-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colossus

For what it's worth, she is giving you mixed signals...but when in doubt trust her actions.

This is what I continue to struggle with. I have the tendency to put too much weight on the words and judge the actions secondarily.

But at least I know what I have to work on.

zekko · 03-15-2011, 01:45 PM

I think there is a lot of advice given on this forum that is dubious.
But the principle about letting the woman bring up the relationship talk and not bringing it up yourself? That is rock solid.

If you bring it up you're giving away too much of the frame and too much power. And for some reason, it makes a guy look weak. And women are not attracted to weak men.

TomSwift · 03-15-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekko

I think there is a lot of advice given on this forum that is dubious.
But the principle about letting the woman bring up the relationship talk and not bringing it up yourself? That is rock solid.

If you bring it up you're giving away too much of the frame and too much power. And for some reason, it makes a guy look weak. And women are not attracted to weak men.

Lesson learned, z. I won't be doing this again ever. As a matter of fact, the advice on this forum today has brought me a renewed sense of calm about the whole thing. The frame is everything, and when you give that away there is nothing left but a whole bunch of backpedaling and supplication. That is not a good place to be operating from.

Cheers!

5string · 03-15-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vatoloco

ditto

scorpio1138 · 03-15-2011, 02:57 PM

I agree with all the advice given. I've been in this situation recently.

The only part of it that bothers me from the core, is that if things are so great between you it really blows that the honesty & communication isn't fully there.

I know, I know, there is a time and a place, but when it goes on like that for almost 2 years you begin to realize it won't work....at least thats how it's turning out for me.

Fortunately though with other ladies interested it is a fraction of the heartache it would be without them.

jophil28 · 03-15-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

We have honest communications; at least, I think we did, until the other day. I’m open about my dating habits – I do NOT date multiple women when I find someone I want to spend time with. She knows this, and was extremely appreciative when I told her (it led to sex).[/font] [/font]

By being open and "honest" with her like that you changed the dynamic.
By practising "honest communication", you essentially told her that you wanted/ needed her more than she wanted you, and that you were declaring your willingness to be exclusive with her even though she had not committed to you..
She then knew that she was your only source of intimacy and that she had most of the power..after all your declaration handed it to her.

I understand your personal decision not to date other women, BUT openly saying so will never bring a woman closer, never ever, inspite of what they say to the contrary about wanting a man who is open with his feelings..
Say nothing , act with dominance and leadership instead..

When she is ready, her natural feminine curiosity and possessiveness will lead her to ask you for exclusivity - always does .

Secondly, her reluctance to talk about exclusivity is a huge warning bell.
She is either truly not "ready" or your overly emotional "ways" are diminishing her attraction for you.

Lastly, backpedal on the "I adore you" messages , and the other smarmy stuff. Give her back about half of what she gives you.

TomSwift · 03-15-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jophil28

Secondly, her reluctance to talk about exclusivity is a huge warning bell.
She is either truly not "ready" or your overly emotional "ways" are diminishing her attraction for you.

Lastly, backpedal on the "I adore you" messages , and the other smarmy stuff. Give her back about half of what she gives you.

I'm far from overly emotional. Our honest communication is very "matter of fact" and definitely is not the emotional fawning that some new couples do; much more of the laying out the past baggage and whatnot. And she is the one that says "I adore you." I usually answer with "I'm glad" or something to that effect.

Like I alluded to in an earlier post, our chemistry has not suffered one bit because of the accidental conversation. I get that her not wanting to talk about exclusivity might be a red flag, but it's still early on, and as I mentioned to vatoloco, if at some point further down the road she still exhibits that reluctance, then I will be prepared to walk away. No hesitation.

I have learned a lot from this thread and from folks like you Jophil, so I am truly grateful. Just wanted to reiterate that I'm not a blubbering emotional fool that spouts poetry and compliments her with every breath. She initiates all of it.

jophil28 · 03-15-2011, 06:29 PM

See below.

jophil28 · 03-15-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

I'm far from overly emotional. Our honest communication is very "matter of fact" and definitely is not the emotional fawning that some new couples do; much more of the laying out the past baggage and whatnot. And she is the one that says "I adore you." I usually answer with "I'm glad" or something to that effect.

That is not quite the same context as your first post suggests.

However, I notice that you are 39 years old. You probably grew up with "honest communications " as the universal mantra.
You and all men have been sold a pup by magrag Pop Psych.

Women talk a lot ( sometimes it is all they seem to do).
Women talk to reduce their anxiety, and it is true that women like to hear men "talk openly" about their thoughts and feelings, BUT women have this requirement of men to simply reduce their own anxiety, and reducing anxiety is ultimately accompanied by her reduced attraction..

Everytime you reveal a lot about yourself, her anxiety goes down and, unfortunately, so does her attraction for you.
By telling her openly about yourself, she has no longer any reason to blab to her girls about you in wide-eyed wonderment, no reason to lie awake wondering where you are (and with whom) and no reason or motivation to agonize and speculate about your "feelings" toward her.
She knows you by your own pronouncements.

Most guys who do this, do so by revealing large chunks or their history well before it is any of her business and, (like you) wonder why she retreats a little .

She retreats because your "honest communication" has relieved her anxiety and, in turn, her attraction has dipped .

jophil28 · 03-15-2011, 06:30 PM

Dupe post.

Bible_Belt · 03-15-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomSwift

My question is why wouldn’t she be ready to talk about it?

My guess is that she had a bad experience with this issue in the past. I think she defines 'exclusivity' as taking down her ad on match, because guys in the past have probably thrown tantrums about the ad. Then she learned that it's more fun to get a constant stream of attention through Internet dating than it is to let a guy tell her what to do. I don't think she's a wh0re for sex by any means at all, which is why she jumped into bed with you right away when you told her that you were not the typical man-wh0re. But I do think she is still addicted to being an online wh0re for attention. Believe it or not, I don't mean that in a negative way. But I think it is the answer to your question about her behavior.

TomSwift · 03-15-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bible_Belt

My guess is that she had a bad experience with this issue in the past. I think she defines 'exclusivity' as taking down her ad on match, because guys in the past have probably thrown tantrums about the ad. Then she learned that it's more fun to get a constant stream of attention through Internet dating than it is to let a guy tell her what to do. I don't think she's a wh0re for sex by any means at all, which is why she jumped into bed with you right away when you told her that you were not the typical man-wh0re. But I do think she is still addicted to being an online wh0re for attention. Believe it or not, I don't mean that in a negative way. But I think it is the answer to your question about her behavior.

This makes a lot of sense to me, and kind of along the same lines as I was thinking. And believe it or not, I'm okay with that behavior. Thanks BB.

03-29-2011, 12:20 PM

Thanks for this thread TomSwift and all contributors.

I'm new to re-enter the world of dating and am gun shy to say the least.
That said, I'm also internet dating and have met a few potentials.

What I'm finding though, is that the women do inquire if I'm seeing anyone else. Literally on the first date. Now the date was typically proceeded by countless emails and a couple phone calls, but it's still the first date.

Given that I'm single due to a lying, cheating scank chop woman, I'm a little reluctant to lie to a woman that seems like someone I'd like to see more.

I read earlier ""I don't like to talk about my dating life." "A gentleman doesn't talk about other ladies." etc." from vatoloco.
How does that work. I'm not sure all the ladies (juggling 4 right now) would react the same. What is the reaction from women you use this on?

I admit that I'm likely not emotionally ready to hit the dating scene again, but Mr. Wiggly has been on bread and water rations long enough!!!

ps: I'm in my upper 40's and am dating women roughly the same age.

Thanks in advance,

M

03-14-2011, 12:08 PM	#1
TomSwift Don Juan Join Date: Oct 2010 Age: 42 Posts: 53	LTR help: the question of exclusivity Guys, I need some sage advice, or at the very least a swift kick in the pants. Long post, so thanks in advance for reading. I’ve been seeing this woman for a little over two months now. I know it’s still early, but I can honestly say that it is on the right track. We have a great time together, spend weekends together at her place, and maybe a night or two during the week going out. Sex is mind blowing. We’re both throwing around “couple” nicknames like baby, sweetie, honey, etc. and say things like “I love xxx about you” or “I love spending time with you.” We have not exchanged “I love you’s” yet (a good thing...it is a bit early for that) but instead she says “I adore you.” We have honest communications; at least, I think we did, until the other day. I’m open about my dating habits – I do NOT date multiple women when I find someone I want to spend time with. She knows this, and was extremely appreciative when I told her (it led to sex). So we had a conversation the other day about her dating habits. It started when we were talking about match.com (where we met), and I asked—playfully, not because I was really concerned about it—if she had been on dates with anyone since we met. She said no, but then she said “I don’t want to have this conversation.” I asked her what conversation, and she said it sounded like I was leading to the exclusivity talk. I said I was really just asking, no ulterior motives. I wish she’d left it there, because she then said, “I really like you and love hanging out with you, but I’m not ready to have that talk just yet.” I let it go, but it’s been bothering me since. My question is why wouldn’t she be ready to talk about it? We already act like we’re a couple. She’s met my friends, she buys me stuff, she’s talking about planning a trip together to the Caribbean this winter. She told me her friends told her she is happier and more relaxed than she’s been in years because of me. And yet she can’t talk about being “exclusive”? Am I reading too much into her words? Should I just trust her actions and leave it at that, and let her bring up exclusivity when she’s ready? What’s the best way to “be the man” in this case? Thanks folks.

03-15-2011, 11:19 AM	#7
Colossus Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: A Mile High Age: 31 Posts: 2,785	I agree with the others---leave it be. You may have jumped the gun a little bit by asking her if she is dating anyone else...but what's done is done so I would continue on your merry way with her as if the conversation never occurred. For what it's worth, she is giving you mixed signals...but when in doubt trust her actions. If or when she's ready she'll bring it up. You can NEVER go wrong by letting a woman broach the exclusivity subject. __________________ A Man has said.. The 12 Commandments of Selection

03-15-2011, 06:29 PM	#15
jophil28 Master Don Juan Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gold Coast. Aust. Age: 56 Posts: 5,284	See below. __________________ IT has rained so much down here lately that my girlfriend just looked through the window for four days - I guess I should let her back in.

03-15-2011, 06:30 PM	#17
jophil28 Master Don Juan Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Gold Coast. Aust. Age: 56 Posts: 5,284	Dupe post. __________________ IT has rained so much down here lately that my girlfriend just looked through the window for four days - I guess I should let her back in.

03-29-2011, 12:20 PM	#20
MonkeyButt Posts: n/a	A little more advise required for noobsause (me) Thanks for this thread TomSwift and all contributors. I'm new to re-enter the world of dating and am gun shy to say the least. That said, I'm also internet dating and have met a few potentials. What I'm finding though, is that the women do inquire if I'm seeing anyone else. Literally on the first date. Now the date was typically proceeded by countless emails and a couple phone calls, but it's still the first date. Given that I'm single due to a lying, cheating scank chop woman, I'm a little reluctant to lie to a woman that seems like someone I'd like to see more. I read earlier ""I don't like to talk about my dating life." "A gentleman doesn't talk about other ladies." etc." from vatoloco. How does that work. I'm not sure all the ladies (juggling 4 right now) would react the same. What is the reaction from women you use this on? I admit that I'm likely not emotionally ready to hit the dating scene again, but Mr. Wiggly has been on bread and water rations long enough!!! ps: I'm in my upper 40's and am dating women roughly the same age. Thanks in advance, M

03-14-2011, 12:55 PM	#3
betheman Master Don Juan Join Date: Nov 2010 Age: 48 Posts: 1,690	back off a little, go easy on the compliments, pay more attention to other women, if you dont you will lose attraction. she is a bit dishonest IMO and by deflecting the discussion she is making a statement she is not wanting to be exclusive at least for now. get another woman set up, even if its enough to get a few texts while your in her presence, lets her know she isnt getting quite the easy ride she may want. never discuss the issue again unless SHE brings it up and SHE tells you she wants exclusivity, dont let her get away with the "you know you wanted us to be exclusive" crap, it has to come from her or its pretty worthless

03-15-2011, 01:45 PM	#9
zekko Master Don Juan Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 52 Posts: 4,889	I think there is a lot of advice given on this forum that is dubious. But the principle about letting the woman bring up the relationship talk and not bringing it up yourself? That is rock solid. If you bring it up you're giving away too much of the frame and too much power. And for some reason, it makes a guy look weak. And women are not attracted to weak men.

03-15-2011, 02:57 PM	#12
scorpio1138 Don Juan Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 39 Posts: 199	I agree with all the advice given. I've been in this situation recently. The only part of it that bothers me from the core, is that if things are so great between you it really blows that the honesty & communication isn't fully there. I know, I know, there is a time and a place, but when it goes on like that for almost 2 years you begin to realize it won't work....at least thats how it's turning out for me. Fortunately though with other ladies interested it is a fraction of the heartache it would be without them.