Problems with disrespect from wife

[zekko]

Originally Posted by Scaramouche

We have all jumped to the conclusion that he is some young irresponsible lay about but he might equally be an older quite responsible talented Gent....

It's possible the guy is just a guitarist who is excited about his current muscial project with this female singer. But again, I doubt that I would be very happy about this arrangement either.

I always feel that if a woman has a male friend that she is close to, a man should have a female friend just as close, or this creates an uneven playing field, where the female appears to be more valuable. Look at the story Backbreaker told about his fiance having a male friend so he picked up a female friend, and that led to them both dropping their hanger-ons without any discussion even being needed. I don't think it's appropriate for married people to have close friends of the opposite sex though.

[heroshima]

Ok, there have been some developments. I threw down the gauntlet this morning and said "you're relationship with him has to end". She called me back later and basically said "you'll get what you want and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again but I'm not giving up music". I said "Excellent, and I never asked you to give up music."

My current plan is to continue as I said in my previous post. Go out more, keep in shape, meet some new people and flirt.

Truthfully I don't know if my marriage can be saved. I have a sh1tload of resentment for her now that she's betrayed me emotionally by making this guy her best friend. And I know that she's going to feel a lot of resentment for me and what I have just demanded from her.

I've made the choice to not be afraid of her emotions or reactions so that shouldn't be a problem but it makes me wonder where our relationship will go.

Any tips on what I can do now to stay ahead of this mess?

[romangod]

Originally Posted by heroshima

Any tips on what I can do now to stay ahead of this mess?

I would suggest that you start hiding some of your assets. If it comes to a divorce, the laws are stacked against you.


Cheers!

[pipe007]

good job on taking control..

my question is, what does she want to get out of her "music" career? she wants to become a lead singer in a band? I mean really think about this because if this is so, eventually she will meet more people who will be calling her 24/7 about band issues and then develop potential new "friends"

so just be do some serious thinking here, and if she is going to selfishly pursue her career disregarding what you want, then consider if you really want to be maried to someone who is going to be dedicate a lot of time outside her marriage to some band...

if this fits waht you want, then go for it and try to handle her behaviors as long as she is not disrespecting you, you should be able to meet her friends at some point.

but this is not a model I would want in my marriage.. but that's my story.

yea keep doing what you are doing by all means, join the gym, get your buddies and do guys night, I mean create some space, there is a reason why she preferred to build a relationship with the male friend, instead of enjoying her time with you. Her interest level went down.

so increase it again, apply the tricks and what nots, the DJ attitude, and if this ultimately does not bring her sexually closer to you, then I think her "love" for you, the chemistry is just gone, and now you would have to think if it's worth being married to a person who is just not feeling you anymore, because in the long run, it just gets worse buddy, you can end up mentally ill.

when she said "fine Ill go back to being a domestic diva and all preachy" I would have laid down the law buddy, she was stepping on boundaries here bro... she doesnt like the rules, she can go to hell.

specially if you two don't have any kids...
I would have said something with that comment... implying that the door its open if she doesnt like the marriage life. and open for good and mean it.

thoughts?

[samspade]

Originally Posted by jophil28

If I were you I would stop trying to 'reason" with her and adopt the position that, " What is good for the goose...etc.."
So my suggestion is for you to go and sign up for a course of Latin Dance lessons . NO wife required !
THat will clear your head , shift your focus away from her behavior onto your own enjoyment, and allow you to feel the benefits of being around other women.

Watch her reaction when the scales are re-balanced.

heroshima,

I didn't read through all the posts, but jophil's advice on page one was the closest to what I would recommend.

Essentially, your behavior/attention/lack thereof will have more impact than any words or threats you deliver. She sees the guitarist and the hobby as part of the same escape; you threatening her about the guy is perceived as a restriction on her freedom. In so doing you are confirming for her what she may have been feeling: That you are a constriction on her freedom. (Let's leave out for now to what extent "freedom" exists in a marriage and just focus on her thinking.)

Forget the other guy for a moment. Deep down, you may be feeling bad because she's found an outlet that doesn't involve you. So why don't you do the same? The latin dancing thing is a great option. It's not a tool for you to rub in her face or "get even." It's away for you to escape your jealousies, rediscover your own personal sense of attractiveness, and break up your routine. Believe me - if she knows you're competently grabbing hips of younger women in class, she'll see you in a brand new light.

Obviously her spending time with the guitarist IS an issue and I don't mean for you to "allow" it. But your actions and attention are your weapons. Threats and anger will drive her into his string-plucking hands.

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by pipe007

when she said "fine Ill go back to being a domestic diva and all preachy" I would have laid down the law buddy, she was stepping on boundaries here bro... she doesnt like the rules, she can go to hell.

specially if you two don't have any kids...
I would have said something with that comment... implying that the door its open if she doesnt like the marriage life. and open for good and mean it.

thoughts?

We do have kids.

That is next on my list. I've considered the suggestions to leave her. My attitude now is that she can leave if she can't deal with me.

[Mr.Positive]

Originally Posted by samspade

Obviously her spending time with the guitarist IS an issue and I don't mean for you to "allow" it. But your actions and attention are your weapons. Threats and anger will drive her into his string-plucking hands.

There's no need for threats or anger, but this woman needs to be led in the right direction.

As far as taking dance lessons, guy's night out etc..distancing himself from her to "make a statement" I don't see that could make things better honestly. I think it would make things worse. The "do what you want, I'll do what I want" mentality is very passive, imo.

You can, and should, set boundaries in a calm, unemotional way, that positively leads the relationship in a healthy direction.

[heroshima]

You guys are making good points about driving her back to him. I will try to be careful of that. Obviously, I would have liked her to come to that decision herself but I couldn't wait any longer. This has gone way too far and now she needs to show me what is really important for her.

I am jealous of the time she has spent with him but me being jealous of her having hobbies or work has not been a big issue for me in the past. What is an issue is her continually (she's been on time occasionally) being late even after she has agreed to a time to be home. Plus the way I see that she feels about him by the look in her eye and the tone in her voice. She's very emotionally involved with him. And yes, that bothers me.

I know I am behind the ball now and she has been getting something from him that she hasn't been getting from me.

To add information:
We have 2 kids that are 5 and 7. She's been a stay at home mom for most of that time but she has a bookkeeping business (for the last 2 or3 years) that she does about 10 hours a week from home.

I'm 95% sure they are not having sex. I've talked with both of them (and asked people around them) about it more than once. I don't think they are lying (and don't think I haven't looked for it).

She has never said that she wants this music thing to be a career. She has said that it is a hobby until she goes to grad school so she can re-enter the work force in a couple years.

I feel that a lot of this has to do with the timing of us raising kids. We really worked well as a team during the time our kids were babies/toddlers.

After the big work of that died down it seems like she just continued to be in mom mode of running the kids but also started running me. I've tried to confront those things as they have come up but it is true that I have become comfortable.

Part of it for me is feeling like I had to accept the life of being a father. That is important to me (not that is was easy). And in some ways I felt like I had arrived, you know, cute kids, good paying jobs for me, and a hot wife that I liked and loved. I do have hobbies and things that keep my interest but most of my life revolved around home.

That obviously needs to change because my home life is sucking the life out of me. Hanging out at the bar yesterday watching football was way better than watching it at home.

[Bible_Belt]

Originally Posted by heroshima

She said "you'll get what you want and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again but I'm not giving up music"

It sounds to me like she is saying that she is simply not happy being married with children. Her actions thus far certainly indicate so as well.

I would bluntly tell her these things, but without anger if you can manage it. Simply tell her that it does not seem like she wants to be married any more. Marriage is not a prison term, and she is more than free to leave at any time. I think she'll argue when you tell her that, as she is obviously convinced that marriage is something she must suffer through, at the cost of hurting everyone else in your family. Resentment of her life is channeled straight at you, and escapism from all of her societal obligations is what she likes about music.

The world is full of women who would love to trade places with her, which is what both of you need to realize. Almost the same story happened to a friend of mine a few years ago, kids and all. He tried to hold on to her until she flat out told him there was someone else, which hit him hard. But within a few months, he had a younger, hotter girlfriend. Now she's pregnant and they're engaged; his ex-wife is furiously jealous and becoming a broken-down barfly. I know her well enough to see that she obviously regrets her decisions.

[backbreaker]

Originally Posted by Bible_Belt

It sounds to me like she is saying that she is simply not happy being married with children. Her actions thus far certainly indicate so as well.

I would bluntly tell her these things, but without anger if you can manage it. Simply tell her that it does not seem like she wants to be married any more. Marriage is not a prison term, and she is more than free to leave at any time. I think she'll argue when you tell her that, as she is obviously convinced that marriage is something she must suffer through, at the cost of hurting everyone else in your family. Resentment of her life is channeled straight at you, and escapism from all of her societal obligations is what she likes about music.

The world is full of women who would love to trade places with her, which is what both of you need to realize. Almost the same story happened to a friend of mine a few years ago, kids and all. He tried to hold on to her until she flat out told him there was someone else, which hit him hard. But within a few months, he had a younger, hotter girlfriend. Now she's pregnant and they're engaged; his ex-wife is furiously jealous and becoming a broken-down barfly. I know her well enough to see that she obviously regrets her decisions.

this is a spectacular post BB. can't add anything to this. wow.

I would say that, never give a woman an ultimatum. it's a sign of weakness.

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by Bible_Belt

Resentment of her life is channeled straight at you, and escapism from all of her societal obligations is what she likes about music.

The world is full of women who would love to trade places with her, which is what both of you need to realize.

Excellent points. I'm a catch and I know there are women that would want to be with me. Realizing that has helped me a lot in the last month.

And, I am absolutely going to say that if she wants to leave she can. This relationship has turned into way too much work for me.

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by backbreaker

I would say that, never give a woman an ultimatum. it's a sign of weakness.

So, what do you do instead of that? I mean, how could I have let her come to this decision on her own?

I feel that she knows its gone too far and, now that I think about it, I can see that she needs me to be firm.

I think this might work out. She has responded to me being straight up before.

That's one of the things that is really confusing about this is that we have had a really solid relationship including me being in a strong position. I mean I figured that any couple that could pull through having kids as well as we did was good.

[grayclif]

Hero - Please seek legal counsel before you make any extreme decisions. She may be a few steps ahead in all this.

[Danger]

Originally Posted by heroshima

To add information:
We have 2 kids that are 5 and 7. She's been a stay at home mom for most of that time but she has a bookkeeping business (for the last 2 or3 years) that she does about 10 hours a week from home.

Now this is a very important thing to consider for a divorce.

Your financial life will be practically ruined via alimony and child support. If there is some way you can find yourself to be the primary care-giver for at least six months before filing, I would highly recommend it. I am not a divorce lawyer and I know BB is very knowledgable in that area.....but from what I know, you are in a position of severe weakness.

Think carefully before you act mate.

[squirrels]

Originally Posted by heroshima

I'm new to this forum and am glad to have found it. I need to change the way things have been going with my wife of 17 years.

We have had a very good relationship, including lots of great sex, and have two kids. She is turning 40 this year and the last 5 months have been really difficult for me. About 2 years ago she got into singing and 5 months ago she started playing with a male, single guitarist. She got really into singing with him and it has put a lot of stress on our relationship. She's been getting home late, spending a lot of time with him and texting/emailing/phoning him a lot. From what I can tell she hasn't cheated on me but I feel like she has disrespected me and our relationship. I've gone through a few rounds of establishing boundaries with her and recently had to tell her "this has taken a toll on our relationship and has to change".

The problem is that I have been very emotional around her about my jealousy and insecurity. I seem to be fitting into that "nice guy" mold. I know she is attracted to the man in me but I got to a point of thinking that I was comfortable in our relationship. I thought I could trust her and she has undermined our relationship.

She's been responding to me much more now but I need to figure out where to go from here. I've been reading a lot of posts on this forum and others in order to pull out of this "nice guy" phase.

I really do have a very deep love for her and am not ready to walk away from this. How can I communicate to her, beyond talking more about it, that what she has done isn't OK and how do I set myself up as the king of the household and someone that deserves respect?

I honestly don't know the entire situation.

What is it you're worried about specifically? Why is it "taking a toll on your relationship"?

Is it affecting your children? Are they "missing mommy" while she's out singing? If so, I agree that she needs to think about her priorities. I'd want her to have a life and if singing is what she loves to do, I'd want her to do it...IF it doesn't hurt the kids.

If it's really taking entirely too much of her time, you need to tell her, in so many words, "I want you to be happy, but your family needs a wife and mother". That carries with it the implication of, "If your singing is more important to you than this, that's fine, but I am going to start looking for someone who CAN get the job done".


Now if it's not REALLY affecting the family, but you're jealous of her spending time around another guy, it comes down to whether you suspect her of "cheating". Have you met this guy? Have you been to any of her shows? Have you taken the kids to her shows?

If you suspect her of screwing around, then start laying the groundwork for the separation.

If you don't suspect her of screwing around, then you need to suck it up and stop being jealous.

That's what I'd do. But then maybe that's why I'm single.

Originally Posted by heroshima

I feel that a lot of this has to do with the timing of us raising kids. We really worked well as a team during the time our kids were babies/toddlers.

After the big work of that died down it seems like she just continued to be in mom mode of running the kids but also started running me. I've tried to confront those things as they have come up but it is true that I have become comfortable.

Part of it for me is feeling like I had to accept the life of being a father. That is important to me (not that is was easy). And in some ways I felt like I had arrived, you know, cute kids, good paying jobs for me, and a hot wife that I liked and loved. I do have hobbies and things that keep my interest but most of my life revolved around home.

That obviously needs to change because my home life is sucking the life out of me. Hanging out at the bar yesterday watching football was way better than watching it at home.

We have here a woman who works 10-hour days and is trying to go back to grad-school and a man who is "getting the life sucked out of him" by fatherhood and wants to be hanging out at the bar.

What made you guys want to have two kids? Did you not realize having kids is at LEAST an 18-year commitment?

I'm not saying either of you shouldn't have lives outside of parenthood...not at all...but parenthood comes first.

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by squirrels

I honestly don't know the entire situation.

What is it you're worried about specifically? Why is it "taking a toll on your relationship"?

Is it affecting your children? Are they "missing mommy" while she's out singing? If so, I agree that she needs to think about her priorities. I'd want her to have a life and if singing is what she loves to do, I'd want her to do it...IF it doesn't hurt the kids.

If it's really taking entirely too much of her time, you need to tell her, in so many words, "I want you to be happy, but your family needs a wife and mother". That carries with it the implication of, "If your singing is more important to you than this, that's fine, but I am going to start looking for someone who CAN get the job done".


Now if it's not REALLY affecting the family, but you're jealous of her spending time around another guy, it comes down to whether you suspect her of "cheating". Have you met this guy? Have you been to any of her shows? Have you taken the kids to her shows?

If you suspect her of screwing around, then start laying the groundwork for the separation.

If you don't suspect her of screwing around, then you need to suck it up and stop being jealous.

That's what I'd do. But then maybe that's why I'm single.



We have here a woman who works 10-hour days and is trying to go back to grad-school and a man who is "getting the life sucked out of him" by fatherhood and wants to be hanging out at the bar.

What made you guys want to have two kids? Did you not realize having kids is at LEAST an 18-year commitment?

I'm not saying either of you shouldn't have lives outside of parenthood...not at all...but parenthood comes first.

Yes, the kids are missing mommy.

Yes, I've been to their shows and taken the kids to their shows.

Yes, I've hung out with him and even played a few songs with him.

She's not working 10 hour days. She's working 10 hours a WEEK.

Yes, I realized that having kids is a commitment. I am committed to it and to my wife. All along the way I have told her and demonstrated to her that I am committed to the relationship.

And, I would rather be sitting on my own couch watching my own TV than sitting in a bar but I had to get out of the house. Its painfully clear now that I don't have enough of a life outside of my wife/family.

This situation is hard to explain to people because they haven't seen what has gone on between us. The reason this is sucking the life out of me is because I have been supportive and accommodating while she has continued to push the boundaries of our relationship.

My best test of this is the way I continue to feel about them spending time together (and her being late) and knowing that she would not be OK with it if our roles were reversed and I had a friend like she has.

This friend has taken the top spot in her life with time/phone/text/email on a daily basis. She has more contact with him than any of her girlfriends. She even called him her "new best friend" at one point. She did not need to make him her "new best friend" in order to play music with him.

[zekko]

I threw down the gauntlet this morning and said "you're relationship with him has to end". She called me back later and basically said "you'll get what you want and I'll go back to being a little domestic diva and everything will be peachy again but I'm not giving up music". I said "Excellent, and I never asked you to give up music."

Again, if she's going to be a singer, she's going to be around male musicians, she's going to be out late, and she's going to be in bars. And since she's the singer, if she's at all good looking, she's going to be getting some male attention while out playing gigs as well. I'm just saying there's no way around this.

Unless she puts together an all female band, but it's very difficult to find the personnel for such a thing. I'd consider that unlikely to happen.

If she plays guitar or piano she could be a solo act, but she's still going to be performing for a lot of drunken males. I don't see any way around this, unless she starts singing in church. I guess your main objection is that she was getting too close to the guitarist.

From the way she phrased things, it sounds like she is going to resent you for this big time. It sounds like things are too far gone to me. And since you have children, I hate to say this, but you are pretty much screwed.
I agree with others who say start squirreling away money secretly, but it's probably not going to be enough once you have to start paying the child support, the divorce settlement, and possibly alimony.

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by zekko

Again, if she's going to be a singer, she's going to be around male musicians, she's going to be out late, and she's going to be in bars. And since she's the singer, if she's at all good looking, she's going to be getting some male attention while out playing gigs as well. I'm just saying there's no way around this.

I understand this. I've played music myself. I know the deal.

The issue for me now is that I am not interested in being with a woman that treats me like a doormat after 17 years. My understanding was that we were getting stronger in our relationship. I guess that's where I was wrong. I really didn't see this coming. Things were good with us in the spring before this happened.

I really don't think that their relationship is safe or appropriate. It has too much potential for either one of them to cross the line into cheating. It may have not happened yet but the potential is there in a big way.

[pipe007]

holly cow, not do I reallize in what messed up position OP is, I see possible divorce, and having 2 kids, oh man tough times ahead, but man it up!! and work your way through it...

maybe your kids are where your energy should be invested for now, and let her go easily from your emotions, start detaching yourself do what it takes!!!

man... I'm single now, but reading about this cases makes me be 100% careful when choosing the person to get married to, and have kids with.. she has to have top notch family values and a sense of committment all over her, any other than that will just be a fling.

I feel for you OP...be strong, in the long run its better to be single than wasting your energy and health on someone who is behaving the way she is...

[heroshima]

Originally Posted by pipe007

I feel for you OP...be strong, in the long run its better to be single than wasting your energy and health on someone who is behaving the way she is...

I agree. This has had a huge effect on my health and well being. I pay attention to the things my body is telling me and being stressed out (high heart rate, high blood pressure) for 2 full months told me that something was wrong. Being close to quitting my job and close to leaving home/kids has told me that it has to change.

I've tried diligently to deal with my jealousy and accept her situation. I have been able to deal with my own feelings as they have come up and feel stable again but it just keeps happening, over and over.

I can't ignore the signs in myself anymore.

I really don't know if it'll work out at this point but that thought doesn't scare me anymore. And I'm not afraid of her feelings anymore.