Sh*t test or Lowering IL?

[TomSwift]

Hey folks, first time poster here. Sorry for the long rant...

So I've been "seeing" this younger girl (25)...3 dates actually. The first date was on the night I met her solo at a brewpub, after chatting up a while. Went well, kiss closed, and so on. 2nd date was initiated by her about 2 weeks later (we were both out of town awhile). More kissing, but no further escalation. 3rd date was dinner and movie at my place. Heavy makeout, plenty of groping, some t*t sucking, but nothing under the pants and I stopped when she said no. Didn't want to come off as too aggressive or a rapist, yaknow?

Anyway, that's the backstory. Up until now she has always been receptive, answers texts (she hardly ever uses the phone--by the way do any young girls even know how to make a phone call?), and never shied away from kissing or touching. Since the 3rd date, however, things have been markedly different. She takes forever to respond, never initiates, and the two times we have set things up had to be "tentative" because of possible conflicts (she has a strange job). Both times didn't happen.

(I'm getting to the point, promise). So this last week I invited her to come see a band with me. She responded "Sounds good, I may have to work that night, but if not I'm down." I said, "Cool, let me know. Doors open at 8." THe whole day goes by and I don't hear a thing from her. Before I leave home I text "Leaving in 10. You coming?" Again, I hear nothing. So I head out to the club - about a 35 minute drive. A couple of blocks down from the club I stop at a shop to buy some cigs, and guess who is there with a guy? Yep. I walk up to the counter, buy what I need, and walk out. She doesn't know I saw her, I can pretty much guarantee that since the only time I looked at her she was looking down.

About 10 minutes later I get a response text to my earlier one: "Maybe. I have a guest in town that I'm showing around. What time do they start?" I said "Around 9. At least stop by and have a drink." She says "I'll try. I'm in the neighborhood but tied up." And that was the last contact. I have decided to stop all contact.

My question to the experienced members: does this sound like a sh*t test, severe lowering of IL, or just another dude. If another dude, then why play it down as if it's something she's "tied up" with? She just keeping me around as an option?

WWDJD?

Thanks for the great stuff guys. Always get a smile on when I stop by here.

[Tiguere]

she is showing a guest around??? lol. BTW she saw you too. dont be fooled into thinking she didnt see you. thats why she responded to your texts then and there.

she is spinning plates.

[amoka]

^ is right. She saw you and noticed you saw her that's why she responded with such a crappy respond. It is a new guy thing. Simply forget about her.

[Zarky]

When a woman's interest goes from high to low very rapidly, it's almost always because she found a new dude.

However, you also played it really poorly, for example this:

So this last week I invited her to come see a band with me. She responded "Sounds good, I may have to work that night, but if not I'm down." I said, "Cool, let me know. Doors open at 8." THe whole day goes by and I don't hear a thing from her. Before I leave home I text "Leaving in 10. You coming?"

Really weak. I mean super duper weak. If all your interactions were like this, it could have been your beta-behavior beforehand (alliteration, b|tches!) that caused her to find another dude. Should have been something more like this:

Her: Sounds good, I may have to work that night, but if not I'm down.
You: Oh really? (note, totally vague response)
Then you invite another chick, if you have one. If not, you don't. Either way, if she says:
Her: Looks like I'm not working and can go after all!
You: Go where?
Her: To the concert silly.
You: Oh crap, I thought you said you were working that night, I'm going with someone else.
Her: (***** gets moist)
Or....
Her: Sorry I couldn't make it to the concert the other night.
You: No worries, thanks for telling me beforehand that you were working, I took someone else.
Her: (***** gets moist)

And it also seems like you're breaking Rule #1: Date Multiple Women, Always.

[Danger]

I agree with every one of these responses.

She does not have her claws completely into the new guy yet, which is why she texted you after she saw you at the shop.

Which, by the way, is exactly why she had her head down. Eye contact would have been the end of her game.

You are option B, if option A does not work out, then the attention MUST come from another source.

[jophil28]

Originally Posted by TomSwift

Since the 3rd date, however, things have been markedly different. She takes forever to respond, never initiates, and the two times we have set things up had to be "tentative" because of possible conflicts (she has a strange job). Both times didn't happen.

^^ That is when the other guy moved on her and her IL shifted from you to him.
Sad to say but you are now "the standby guy".

I would bail right now and take what is left of my pride and dignity .

[squirrels]

If a girl is interested in seeing you, she won't give such a non-committal response. Any kind of, "maybe, need to check my schedule" crap is essentially a "no, unless I'm bored to death, then you're something to do".

First of all, trying to get into a girl's panties on the 3rd date is NOT "coming off as a rapist". Don't get me wrong, "no" means "no", but lots of times it's more like, "no, not right now...I'm not turned on enough. Ask again later."

Something tells me you were either awkward during the foreplay, or when she stopped you, you got mopey or angry or somehow busted the mood, making her feel "dirty"...like all of that kissing and petting didn't mean anything to you and you just wanted a warm hole to stick it in.

One of the biggest things you can do to turn a woman off is make it seem like you're going to be disappointed if she doesn't put out THAT night. Women want to be f**ked, don't get me wrong, but they want to be f**ked by a guy who is INTO them, turned on by them, and not by a guy who is looking to jerk off using her snatch as a FleshLight.

That being said, short answer, move on to the next girl/.

[CHICAGO27]

I would NEXT. I don't think you can salvage this.

[TomSwift]

Thanks guys, yea I get what you're saying. I have already moved on. I picked up a lot of bad habits in 12 years of marriage, so I'm learning to break them. At this point I'm just trying to learn what I did WRONG so I don't do that shyte again.

One thing I'd curious about though. On the subject of "I'd like to go if I'm not working," etc., etc. How do you guys handle it when a woman has an "on call" job, and yaknow just might be called in to work after she agrees to a date? That's where my confusion lies I guess. I WAS going to go to the concert anyway, was meeting friends there, so the fact that she didn't outright commit wasn't too bothersome. But what should I have done in that situation? I thought that "Cool, let me know. Doors open at 8" was appropriate given that she very well may have been asked to work. Maybe not.

@squirrels: nah, didn't get mopey or angry, but I get where you're coming from

@Zarky: "Date multiple women, Always." Totally agree, but to get to multiples you need to start at one

[Danger]

Applicant: I'd like to go, but I'm not sure of my schedule yet, I will call you before to confirm. Blah blah blah blah.
Me: We'll pick another time when you're sure of your schedule.

For a situation where you are going anyways and tell her she can tag along, I usually just ignore the flake signal and do not bother contacting her again. If she is interested, she will make it known.

[squirrels]

What does she do?

[TomSwift]

Originally Posted by squirrels

What does she do?

Flight attendant, but only on call. That means 10 hour shift when called.

[Zarky]

dunno man, that's a toughie. Sort of a lose-lose for you, because by the very nature of her job she is always calling the shots. Not sure how to handle that one. Not sure I would get very involved with someone like that. Cop-out, yes, but I don't know how you can control the rel'p when you never know when she's going to be around.

[TomSwift]

Yea Zarky, I think I remember someone somewhere told me to never get involved with flight attendants and waitresses. Oh, and hairdressers. Crazy lot, those.

You want to know the sad part--and proof that scarcity breeds attraction--I wasn't really that into her until she stopped responding. Funny, huh?

[jophil28]

Originally Posted by TomSwift

You want to know the sad part--and proof that scarcity breeds attraction--I wasn't really that into her until she stopped responding. Funny, huh?

Jophil says..." Scarcity increases perceived value and triggers desire."

Note the word "perceived".

Women exploit this quirk of human nature by playing "hard to get ".

[Greasy Pig]

Great post TomSwift. It poses a number of issues which the guys here have answered admirably and absolutely accurately.

I've found myself relegated to the 'B' option a couple of times and the best thing to do is move on. She's displaying exactly the same 'I've met another guy but I'll keep you on the backburner for when this guy can't see me or dumps me' indicators as the girls I was involved with.

I have nothing really to add except that these forums are frickin awesome!