I was a two strikes kind of guy but over time I've found that it really doesn't matter whether you give a girl one, two or three chances. Flakiness in those early days, at any point, tends to be indicative of a broader pattern of behaviour that I am just not interested in. So these days I'm basically zero tolerance, what that means in practical terms is that a girl gets one chance to impress, one chance to pass my ****-test.

Here's the ****-test. If the date is scheduled at 8:00PM she has until 8:10PM to show up, or I walk. If she messages me before 8:00 to say she's running late, that's a pass first time around. If she messages me after 8:00PM to say she's going to be late, that's a fail, game over. If she turns up after 8:10PM without a courtesty text...well, I'm already long gone, but you guessed it, that's a fail. As you can see, it's an almost Herculean task I've set out, perhaps beyond the reach of most mortal women, hahaha. Dead easy really. I've followed through on this about four times in the last two months, and as recently as last night.

I'm sharing this because some might find it interesting and it might spark some useful discussion. I'm not concerned about the outcome and I'm not seeking advice but you're welcome to comment. This one was very much an experiment, I was interested in pushing and probing a bit deeper, so I did. On other occasions I've just moved on without another word.

Transcript follows in the next post.

I know where you're coming from, and I don't think it's really irrational thinking either. Not only just flaking, but not having the courtesy of telling you ahead of time they're going to be running late is really annoying and because of this alone I already know these girls are going to be coming with perks.

I'll preface this by saying I had already agreed to changing the day just two days earlier.

Oh yeah, 8PM at the [coffee lounge]. Seeya there.

Perfect!

then, at 8:05PM

Waiting for taxi

Riiiiight, what's your ETA?

15 min all going well

L, that's not quite good enough. Reschedule another time.


Got in my car and headed off, got a call from L, decided to answer it. L wanted to know if she should get the taxi to take her home. I said she probably should and I explained that I have a few rules that I play by. L rattled off a bunch of stuff about how busy she'd been, I explained that all she had to do was send a text ahead of time, since it was obvious that she had known she was going to be late. L said something to the effect of, 'this isn't going to work' I told her that was fine, not the end of the world.

So I drive home and before I get into bed I notice a message from L. This is when I decide to dig a bit deeper for a change.

I am struggling to understand your criteria, by my perhaps old fashioned standards 15 min late is still considered good etiquette for a girl on a date. I thought i had bonus points up my sleeve, perhaps i have much to learn, you were only my 2nd online date.

I'm sure plenty of other guys are happy to tolerate it, but as you can see, I dont, Im quite upfront about it in my profile. If you want another shot that can be arranged, if however, you still feel hard done by then we'll part ways.

I dont feel hard done by, simply a little disappointed by a lack of compromise which i value highly. Not a fan of drama and issues, have been there before and this is clearly not a great start so perhaps we should say goodbye and goodluck to each other. Pity as you seemed like you were on my level via cyber world but i must have been disillusioned. i hope i figure out this online stuff out soon!

My word yes. Good thing I didn't compromise by agreeing to meet on Wednesday instead. Reframe it any way you want, you screwed up tonight and you're avoiding responsibility for it. That said, ur a cool girl from what I can tell, all the best.

Ease up ice man! I admitted responsibility right from the start when i sent text advising taxi on route. It was never my intention to run late and i do apologise. in an odd way its nice to know that we clearly both have high expectations.

I figure she's basically conceded here so I decide to normalise the conversation.

Haha, who's Iceman? They do occasionally call me [nickname] at work, unfortunate I know. Night L.



Got a message from her this morning asking about my nickname, tone was much more....kitten like.

Wilko said:

I'll preface this by saying I had already agreed to changing the day just two days earlier.

Oh yeah, 8PM at the [coffee lounge]. Seeya there.

Perfect!

then, at 8:05PM

Waiting for taxi

Riiiiight, what's your ETA?

15 min all going well

L, that's not quite good enough. Reschedule another time.


Got in my car and headed off, got a call from L, decided to answer it. L wanted to know if she should get the taxi to take her home. I said she probably should and I explained that I have a few rules that I play by. L rattled off a bunch of stuff about how busy she'd been, I explained that all she had to do was send a text ahead of time, since it was obvious that she had known she was going to be late. L said something to the effect of, 'this isn't going to work' I told her that was fine, not the end of the world.

So I drive home and before I get into bed I notice a message from L. This is when I decide to dig a bit deeper for a change.

I am struggling to understand your criteria, by my perhaps old fashioned standards 15 min late is still considered good etiquette for a girl on a date. I thought i had bonus points up my sleeve, perhaps i have much to learn, you were only my 2nd online date.

I'm sure plenty of other guys are happy to tolerate it, but as you can see, I dont, Im quite upfront about it in my profile. If you want another shot that can be arranged, if however, you still feel hard done by then we'll part ways.

I dont feel hard done by, simply a little disappointed by a lack of compromise which i value highly. Not a fan of drama and issues, have been there before and this is clearly not a great start so perhaps we should say goodbye and goodluck to each other. Pity as you seemed like you were on my level via cyber world but i must have been disillusioned. i hope i figure out this online stuff out soon!

My word yes. Good thing I didn't compromise by agreeing to meet on Wednesday instead. Reframe it any way you want, you screwed up tonight and you're avoiding responsibility for it. That said, ur a cool girl from what I can tell, all the best.

Ease up ice man! I admitted responsibility right from the start when i sent text advising taxi on route. It was never my intention to run late and i do apologise. in an odd way its nice to know that we clearly both have high expectations.

I figure she's basically conceded here so I decide to normalise the conversation.

Haha, who's Iceman? They do occasionally call me [nickname] at work, unfortunate I know. Night L.



Got a message from her this morning asking about my nickname, tone was much more....kitten like.

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I would have allowed the 15 mins, even 30 mins. Make her Pay for it by fvcking her later on. This will make me all the more determined. I will not hesitate to call another girl for a spur-of-the-moment date during the 30 minute wait, IF the girl on her way "from the taxi" is not all that hot, or hot-sounding (or keeps changing stories or is being wishy-washy feigning interest, I don't even WANT to fvck her if she doesn't Want to fvck me). If I Really want to fvck her, then I'll wait 30 minutes. I've waited even an hour before. Sh!t happens, and they've waited an hour for me too. They've waited an hour and 45 minutes for me before. I'm flexible like that because I will do/say almost anything for a fvck.

You sound like her school teacher.

It would work more in your favour if you sounded like a man with a short patience.

You have no time to wait 15 minutes but you have time to sit and explain to her why you left and what she did wrong and what your principles are?

This is why i dont buy into this 'tough guy strict rules' sosuave technique. It shows that you are trying to make a point too much. It's like signposting before you punch.

The 'ten minute rule' is my own version of Antidump's machine, its purpose is to make sure I spend my time with girls who have high IL in me. How high does her IL have to be? High enough to turn up on time or meet those other conditions, that's where I've set the bar. Nothing I wouldn't expect from myself in their shoes, but that's irrelevant.

The 'angry schoolteacher' is an act, something I decided to try this time around and I have to say the results were interesting, not what I was expecting. You see I bought the idea that total indifference plus NC while you hit the next button was the way to do it. That was the advice I'd read here and it made intuitive sense; it's the stoic, manly way to handle it. Looking back, when I've done that the girls just moved on, almost as easily as I did. Sure they got pissed and they probably realised I wasn't a guy to jerk around but I don't think it peaked their IL one bit, I was just gone. Ah, but if you've nexted them, why care about their IL? Just hear me out.

I pushed and confronted the girl this time, rather than simply taking myself away, and at the end of it her IL was much higher. That is interesting, that is useful to me.

I'll break down the exchange a bit more as I see it.

What is really interesting to me is how her position shifted through the conversation, I basically kept restating the same thing.

She starts off by dismissing being late as a women's perogative.

Then she shifts the blame onto my unwillingness to compromise.

Finally she apologises and admits to some begrudging admiration.

I think that despite her professed dislike of drama this gave her exactly the kind of emotional roller coaster women crave. I think her IL is much higher now than it would have been had I just 'taken myself away'.

I think that while nexting, NC and total indifference might be great tools for your own sanity I think there's better ways to drive up IL.

Of course there's a contradiction here. The 'ten minute rule' is about selecting for high IL and the 'angry schoolteacher' routine turned out to be about generating high IL, it's ass-backwards in this scenario. Anyway, that's what I got out of it.

Postscript:

Had some light-hearted offline messages filled with smiley faces waiting for me from L, apparently she re-read my profile. Yeah, I'd say her IL is pretty high.

I'd also say I'm a smug bastard right now.

P.P.S.

I was out at a comedy club tonight when L messages me asking if I'm out and if I would consider catching up with her. We had a half hour window where we could do it, so I think why not, her IL must be super high, I'll isolate and get her away from her friends she's out with. I suggest a bar I like, it turns out to be one of her favourites and I tell her to leave her support crew where they are, she obliges.

She turns up and what a damn mess, drunk, distracted and disengaged from the outset. Within minutes she pleads that she has to send a text message which was fine, but a huge red flag. When she tried to respond to one later I actually started swatting at her fingers with my straw. Did get some laughs out of her, managed to key on some things that actually got her engaged but still easily some of the worst company I've ever had on a 'date'.

I walked away thinking, THAT's why I screen, that's why I use the ten minute rule.

I like your screening programme, but what do you want out of this?

Are you having fun from her attention and buying her temperature, why haven't you railed her already?

You know I was asking myself the same thing Pachuco. No doubt about it, I definitely enjoyed being able to control that situation, and I was steering it towards banging L.

L was kinda cute in person, but ugh, her fidgeting and awkwardness was a huge turn off. I had a really negative pants-level reaction to it, I can see why women hate it when men act that way.

You know, I'm sorry Wilko, for knocking your Anti-Dump-like response to the wh0re who kept making you wait. I've been given the run-around all f-in day by this early 20s brunette, 1st she wants to go out with me tonight, then she doesn't think she can, then she says "change of plans" (I guess she shut another guy out?? for me??), then tonight she gives this lame excuse that I never called or messaged her back, um YEAH because I told you that I was at work! I swear these "college" girls can't READ At. All. They either Intentionally misread sh!t or they Really can't read, but passed the entrance exams somehow. I think that university was much harder when I went back in the early 90s.

Anyway, she offers to meet me mon, tues, or thurs night, I haven't responded and don't think I will. This is one of those Moody b!tches, I can't put up with that sh!t. She also offered to meet me tonight, but fvck it I'm too tired from work and tired of her bullsh!t, so I replied, "can't make it."

She smokes too, so really, I don't really want her neurotic as5. Steer clear of the batsh!t women guys, they're nothing but trouble. Steer clear. I have a lot of boring stuff to do tomorrow, but I Should be seeing a hot as fvck blond tomorrow at her friends apt. I could coax her friend to a 3-some, but the moment has to be right, timing right, for that to happen. Plus, I have a date from POF (gave me her # Quick! and she contacted me 1st - becoming more common - and she apologized for being so "forward" she's 31 thin Catholic brunette) Sun at 8 PM. I know I won't probably fvck her, but I know a girl In her area who will, and I gave her a heads up today, funny she contacted me after a month today while I was working, said she missed me, and that she'd Really like to see me again. This is the same redhead I've fvcked twice in July/Aug, kinda white-trash, short, eh ok face, but she said she wouldn't be back here until Thanksgiving (attends University of Virginia). I wonder Why she is back! Dropped out??

Anyway, this weekend, fvck I never know what's in store for me. I have not not fvcked on a weekend since late June 2010. This may be my 1st weekend of not fvcking, but I doubt it, I'll probably end up fvcking the redhead Sun, and maybe the hot little blond tomorrow idk. The weather is perfect here.

Don't sweat it Poonani Maker, the fact is you're kind of right, a ten-minute rule isn't going to get anyone more pu$$y, it just doesn't work that way. Frankly, my "integrity" is costing me some a$$ but that's the choice I've made.

I think your poor overworked d!ck would really appreciate the weekend off. You'd better hope it doesn't tell the union about all the unpaid overtime you've been forcing it to do.

Two more for me coming up this week, one shorty, love the short girls.

Hmm .. my game is all about not caring about the little things, and not being so neurotic. At least you appreciate this is only costing you, I'm not entirely sure what you gain from it.

Maybe it makes sense - in my case its usually me running 15 minutes late and texting other people during dates, so I suppose thats why ... Some people just aren't suited to each other.

Of course, had you just met her and realised what a mess she was that would have saved the time and effort meeting up with her again. If you were going to walk away because she was too disrespectful and had failed to meet your standards, I'm not sure why you were then willing to meet her another night ...

Maybe it makes sense - in my case its usually me running 15 minutes late and texting other people during dates, so I suppose thats why ... Some people just aren't suited to each other.

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And that's why it will never work out between us Tesl, I think we should start seeing other forum members

Good input all round. Here's how I'm going forward. My 'ten-minute rule' is no longer a rule, it's now my 'ten-minute technique', something I'll use to gauge interest level, I won't compel myself to leave every time.

Same goes for NC and nexting, great tools but I'm leaning on the 'rules' too much; of course it simplifies things, but it's also limiting. Turns out that being a confrontational jackass has its uses too, hahaha.

Ok, we'll consider this wrapped up.

Wilko said:

And that's why it will never work out between us Tesl, I think we should start seeing other forum members

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Hahaha. Okay, that wasn't exactly what I meant, but good stuff.

Good input all round. Here's how I'm going forward. My 'ten-minute rule' is no longer a rule, it's now my 'ten-minute technique', something I'll use to gauge interest level, I won't compel myself to leave every time.

Same goes for NC and nexting, great tools but I'm leaning on the 'rules' too much; of course it simplifies things, but it's also limiting. Turns out that being a confrontational jackass has its uses too, hahaha.

Ok, we'll consider this wrapped up.

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This sounds good and makes a lot of sense I think