Needing some perspective on changes I need to make (Long)

A little background....I have recently broken up with my son's mother who is BPD (proof below):

- Head over heels from the beginning, amazing sex and her telling me she never loved anybody as much as me with 3 months.

- Things went way down hill after that with her getting mad and going out and making out with guys. She blamed this on me "cheating" on her in the beginning of the relationship. I always stayed because I rationalized that I did cheat and when things were good there wasn't any better, especially the sex and she is a former Chanel model that anybody with eyes would consider a 9.5

- She would start arguments for no reason and say "you're a piece of $hit liar, I can see why your other relationships didn't work out". I would start to withdraw, she would go out and do something stupid like make out with a guy, come home and tell me which would make withdraw further and then she would chase me telling me how sorry she was, how she couldn't live without me and she just wanted a commitment from me. If I committed (proposed) then she says she wouldn't have done it and wouldn't do it again.

- At a wedding she got drunk and made a move on my best friend who told me the next day. I even worked it out after this accepting the "I was drunk" excuse again.

- Recently She went to her best friend's wedding got drunk and slept with a random guy unprotected. When I found the next day, I walked out and quit talking to her for 2 days. She used my son to try to get me to talk to her which I eventually did. I started dating other girls and she flipped her lid and filed a missing child report on me while I was with a girl and my son was at the babysitter's house. She apologized and says she was worried about me and then him and she can't see me being with anybody else and she didn't even want to think about it. She asked if I would go to therapy with her to resolve her issues and ours. I agreed I would at least consider it for my son's sake, but in the back of mind knew I would continue talking to girls.

- Fast forward 3 weeks after the wedding, she goes out with friends for her birthday and before leaving me tells me "I have never felt better about the relationship, I won't do anything stupid." She goes out, I talked to her at 230 and she tells me a little about the night and says she will call me back. I call her at 4AM when all the bars are closing and she doesn't answer. She sends me a text message saying she is going swimming at her friends house. I take my son and go to her friends house (crazy, I know) and her friend pulls up without her. They don't know where she is at and they call her and she answers. She then calls me back and tells me she is with another friend (female). I tell her I will call her back in 20 mins and go to the other friends house. She is not there.

-I go back the next morning and notice her friend leaving and she is not in the car. That was around 11AM. Finally she calls me at 1:30 PM to come pick her up. I ask her where she stayed and she tells me the friends that I saw leave at 11 (Her phone had died so she couldn't work out her story.) I call her out and she sticks to her guns regardless of the proof I have, so I just start making statements and tell her my "friend" saw her doing stuff and she is not denying any of it. At that point, I walk out determined not to talk to her. She posts pictures on her facebook of her night out and her and her friends are going on about how crazy it was (they went skinny dipping in a lake outside of club and I'm pretty sure she got F*cked twice). I ignore it all and call the phone #s I gathered that week. 2 days later she is telling me I'm her best friend and she can live without me. She says she knows she does stupid stuff, but she really does love me. I don't respond or give into any of it and after 3 days she goes completely cold and starts posting pictures of her with another guy on a boat on her facebook profile. She also forwards me a text message from a guy asking her to marry him and saying she can move in with her kids. Unbelievable.

* There is much more that has happened, but I just wanted to post a little before people start saying she is not BPD.

Okay, after all of this I still miss the girl, but know that there is no going back and I am trying to figure out what is wrong with me that I would stay in a relationship like that for that long (5 years). I'm also trying to figure out what I need to do to have a healthy relationship with a woman as most of mine have been dysfunctional. I do well everywhere else in life, just not relationships. So in this process I send a ex a message to get her perspective on how her relationship went and this is her response:

Well from what I remember you are a "hot dog" you show off, think a lot of yourself, and only care about #1. You never thought about your actions, you took from me, you took from *different girl*, you took from other girls.....and then when you got bored you rotated.
I don't know you now, but where did you meet *BPD mom*? Where do you go looking for girls? Maybe you are looking in the wrong places. If you are going out drinking or partying then that most likely will find you the same type of girl you have always found. I honestly don't know, if I was around you more now I may know, but I am not....I really am not sure what to tell you.
What I can tell you, is you do take care of #1....and it did not matter what it was, you got your way.
But maybe you won't let yourself finish a reltaionship, because you are afraid it may end in a divorce, like your mothers. I am really not sure, I wish I could help you more. That sucks about *brother*, sorry to hear that!


I'm going to a therapist today, but I'm starting to think I may be NPD or something. My dad died when I was young, mom got divorced from stepdad at 8, and never had a boyfriend after until 3 years ago. The two things I'm looking for here are an educated perspective on what may be wrong with me and also a path to get over *BPD mom*. I can't figure out why I would still want her and it's driving me f'in insane right now (no, I'm not communicating with her much outside of the kid). I know it's long, but thanks for reading and the perspective.

I would like more info about YOU personally. What are your hobbies, how do you spend most of your time ?? how do you get along with friends ?? Do you have any guy friends ?? Do you do well with women when it comes to having a conversation / flirting / friends ??

How do you feel about your job ?? Do you have any goals ??

Drum&Bass said:

I would like more info about YOU personally. What are your hobbies, how do you spend most of your time ?? how do you get along with friends ?? Do you have any guy friends ?? Do you do well with women when it comes to having a conversation / flirting / friends ??

How do you feel about your job ?? Do you have any goals ??

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My hobbies include working out, riding my motorcycle, I like video games, but my xbox is busted. Those are my major hobbies, but I'm trying to travel more and experience things in different cities. Talking to girls is kind of a hobby whether they are friends or interests. I have 3 male friends that I've been friends with since I was 7, 9, and 13. Those are my closest friends. I'm a friendly person and generally well-liked. People call me smiley because I smile a lot.

I do great conversating with women, I flirt with women of all ages, I don't care if they are 60. I had A LOT of female friends, but cut them out because of my ex-BPD.

Since we "officially" broke up the week of the wedding I have gotten 5 phone #s, been on a couple dates, and had sex with 1 girl (the day I found out about her sleeping with the guy at the wedding). One girl I liked, but she didn't return my call after the second date, so I deleted her number. When I was with her I didn't think about my ex-bpd at all and when I'm talking to one of 3 other girls I don't think about my ex-bpd much either.

The thing that worries me is I don't want to replace the girl and start the cycle over. It's also funny to me that I don't care about her when I'm with another woman. Is that normal after such a recent break-up? That and when I'm not talking to girls or getting a good response from the ones I'm talking to I tend to the think about the ex and get depressed about what she's doing.

I love my job, but I want to go much farther. She hurt my ego a lot and now I want to build the best body I can, make as much money as humanly possible, and date the most attractive woman I can get. On the other hand, my confidence is a little shot and I'm wondering if the only reason I got my ex-bpd was being an easy target.

Sounds like you put a lot of value in women - or at least being with a woman. In my humble opinion, if you can't be happy alone, doing things you like to do, no woman is going to make you happy. You can't set your life and happiness through someone else.

Personally, it seems that both of you are pretty liberal with fvcking around. I know the old saying goes - get over 1 woman by jumping on 10 new ones, but in my experience that has never really worked (although your ex seems one hell of a biatch).

It seems like you need to dig deep and not put so much value in women - the therapist is probably a good starting point.

Just got done with the therapist. I picked the right one I think. Within 30 mins he says "terminate the relationship and get custody of the kid". He then goes on to tell me that I have issues or I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did. He says "your problem is you pick girls based on having nice t!ts. it doesn't work that way. Another thing about big t!ts is they sag when you get older." He then explained to me that it takes 1 - 3 years to successfully treat BPD and you need a preeminent therapist that has been trained to do it. I took a 175 question questionnaire and we are going to go through the results to find my "weaknesses" next week. He gaves me examples of women he wanted to "F*ck the sh*& out" of when he was younger and why he didn't pursue it when he found they were crazy. I think this is going to be really good for me. I'm still open to perspectives and will continue to update progress with the therapist if anybody cares to read or respond.

The fact that your therapist is a guy is a big positive. You probably need brutal, straight talk right now rather than the "I'm okay, you're okay" speak you'd likely get from a female therapist.

DMSR76 said:

The fact that your therapist is a guy is a big positive. You probably need brutal, straight talk right now rather than the "I'm okay, you're okay" speak you'd likely get from a female therapist.

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Yeah, he's a much older guy too, so he doesn't seem to mince words or pull any punches.

DJjazzyJeff

Okay, after all of this I still miss the girl, but know that there is no going back and I am trying to figure out what is wrong with me that I would stay in a relationship like that for that long (5 years).

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No one can control the actions of another person. Unlike what seduction forums tell you, the truth of the matter is that you have NO CONTROL OVER WOMEN and no other man does either.

You can present yourself in the best light, be attractive and eventually get laid, but you CANNOT CONTROL THE QUALITY OF THE WOMEN YOU ENCOUNTER. You cannot control her personality, her motivations, her thoughts, her influences, her goals, etc. All of these things determine how LONG the relationship will last, but ALL of these pieces of criteria can be changed at any minute. You can do something to change her thoughts about you, she could hear a rumor about you, you could pass gas and she could change, I think you get the picture.

With this being said, you cannot never truly "settle" for any woman, meaning, you cannot truly ever get to a point in life where you say to yourself that, "This is the woman I will grow old with, this is the one, etc."

The reason why you cannot do this is because number one it's not true and number two, you are putting yourself in a position to where IF the relationship goes sour, it could lead to a serious depression period because YOU HAVE TOLD YOURSELF, that this girl was ALL YOU HAD, which isn't even true btw. So if you've programmed yourself to believe that she was your EVERYTHING, it's just natural to be down and out if you lose her, correct?

I am not saying that you shouldn't be "committed" to one woman, however, being "committed" and "settling" are two different things.

> I am "committed" to working out. However, I am not "settling in" to NO particular workout, diet, supplement, exercise or gym.

Your commitment should be to the routine, not the person, because a person is something that can CHANGE overnight or even at the drop of a hat. However, routines (setting aside time to spend with women, etc) do not change because they are determined and controlled by YOU only. So in this example, I would stay committed to working out/eating right, which is mainly setting aside the "routine" of eating right and making time for exercise, but I would NOT SETTLE INTO and say that I will ONLY go to this gym, use these supplements, eat this type of chicken, workout in this type of order, FOREVER! The reason I would not say that is because supplements leave the market, new forms of exercise emerge, new ways of eating right emerge, etc. Do you get my point?

In a nutshell, "spinning plates" assists you by not allowing yourself to stay in bad relationships, because you only STAY there to avoid the PAIN of leaving it (the depression feeling of being dumped or being alone).

You don't HAVE to spin plates, mainly, you just need to adapt the proper mindset behind spinning plates which is a mindset of never SETTLING for any woman.

Instead, if you are not in a serious relationship with her, you must create a process where you are meeting women CONSISTENTLY every single day for dating purposes.

When you are in a relationship with a woman, NEVER tell yourself this is IT, and this is the GIRL or THE ONE for me. Such girl does not exist, such girl might be available NOW, but again human beings change. So even when you are in a serious relationship, just tell yourself you will be committed to the routines (the general dating of this person, f.ucking of this person, etc.) but always keep in the back of your head that at ANY TIME this can go sour, and you will ALWAYS keep your eyes open for other potential targets.

By not programming yourself and pumping false beliefs into your head that "this is the one," it will assist you in a more healthier manner in the case of IF this relationship goes sour, you can easily move onto another target.

Yes, it might "sting" a little, but you should never be to the point of a "knockout."

NewMan said:

Sounds like you put a lot of value in women - or at least being with a woman. In my humble opinion, if you can't be happy alone, doing things you like to do, no woman is going to make you happy. You can't set your life and happiness through someone else.

Personally, it seems that both of you are pretty liberal with fvcking around. I know the old saying goes - get over 1 woman by jumping on 10 new ones, but in my experience that has never really worked (although your ex seems one hell of a biatch).

It seems like you need to dig deep and not put so much value in women - the therapist is probably a good starting point.

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Dont mean to jump in on this thread, but i too put a lot of value in women..i feel like i am most happy when i have one. i do agree you cant be happy till you are happy alone, but i guess my question is what things can you do to help this process?

live alone? go to movies by yourself? i may seem naive about this because i have always had friends or roommates around but even still i put the value on women.

DJjazzyJeff said:

Just got done with the therapist. I picked the right one I think. Within 30 mins he says "terminate the relationship and get custody of the kid". He then goes on to tell me that I have issues or I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did. He says "your problem is you pick girls based on having nice t!ts. it doesn't work that way. Another thing about big t!ts is they sag when you get older." He then explained to me that it takes 1 - 3 years to successfully treat BPD and you need a preeminent therapist that has been trained to do it. I took a 175 question questionnaire and we are going to go through the results to find my "weaknesses" next week. He gaves me examples of women he wanted to "F*ck the sh*& out" of when he was younger and why he didn't pursue it when he found they were crazy. I think this is going to be really good for me. I'm still open to perspectives and will continue to update progress with the therapist if anybody cares to read or respond.

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good luck with the therapist djj. Id like to hear your progress and im rooting for you brother.

jazzyjeff,

I think you should continue seeing your therapist..It sounds like he maybe able to help you with some of your problems.

The Message Boy said:

When you are in a relationship with a woman, NEVER tell yourself this is IT, and this is the GIRL or THE ONE for me. Such girl does not exist, such girl might be available NOW, but again human beings change. So even when you are in a serious relationship, just tell yourself you will be committed to the routines (the general dating of this person, f.ucking of this person, etc.) but always keep in the back of your head that at ANY TIME this can go sour, and you will ALWAYS keep your eyes open for other potential targets."

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Thanks for the reply. I have definitely learned that you can't control other people. I've also learned that actions should HEAVILY outweigh anything that comes out of a woman's mouth. One good thing I can say about the relationship is it fine-tuned my intuition. It's much easier for me to tell when people are lying and my gut rarely leads me wrong when it comes to females anymore.

I currently have other targets that I'm focusing on, but it doesn't feel right. I keep thinking in the back of mind I'm just doing it to get past her and then asking myself if I'm going to create the same cycle with a different girl. Regardless, it eases the pain so I will continue to do that unless somebody has any other suggestions. Some other things that make my situation difficult are we have a kid together and she lives on the same street as me. It doesn't help that my #1 girl right now is a 7 and she's a 9.5 either.

I haven't seen her in a week (we've worked it out so that whoever has my son will pick him up from day care and drop him off the next day), haven't talked to her outside of my son (minus 2 days, one of which she told me 2 guys asked her to marry them and forwarded me one of the texts with a picture of his house and him saying she can move in with her 2 kids. Man, what it must be like to be a hot chick) I'm not looking forward to this weekend because I will have my son all weekend and there is no telling how many guys she is going to be out with. That being said I found some new research by Helen Fisher that is helping me reframe everything mentally and it might be helpful to anybody else just getting out of a relationship:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2010/07/07/am.intv.fisher.breakup.cnn

http://helenfisher.com/downloads/articles/Fisher-et-al-Rejection.pdf

I appreciate all the replies and will continue to update the progress as I make it. New decisions for today are: I'm going to tighten my diet a little more to put on weight a little faster and I'm going to learn to play piano. The research I'm finding is showing learning new things can deactivate the areas of the brain that cause emotional pain. I'm going to test that out. I know in the end I'll be alright if I can sort out my own issues and so I've just got to keep on keeping on.

boynamedsue said:

good luck with the therapist djj. Id like to hear your progress and im rooting for you brother.

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Thanks man. I appreciate the support, I'm sure I'll need it.

cavedweller said:

jazzyjeff,

I think you should continue seeing your therapist..It sounds like he maybe able to help you with some of your problems.

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Yeah, I am definitely going to continue. He's a PhD trained in a lot of different types of therapy (Gestalt, DBT, DNMS, Hypnotherapy, ego state therapy, transactional analysis, etc). He's been a psychologist for 40+ years. He's about 70 years old. This sounds messed up, but I just hope he doesn't die before he can "fix" me.

I'd say your therapist's advice is right-on.

It amazes me how easily "men" get sucked in by drama.

Your biggest mistake was having a kid with this woman. I'm not saying anything bad about your child, but the act was definitely a misstep, and with custody-battles upcoming, your life WILL be a living hell for the next couple of years. Consider it your penance. Hopefully you will sort it all out and be on your way to redemption...but as your therapist pointed out, you ain't quite right in the head either.

Time for an offshoot thread... http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1719364#post1719364

boynamedsue said:

Dont mean to jump in on this thread, but i too put a lot of value in women..i feel like i am most happy when i have one. i do agree you cant be happy till you are happy alone, but i guess my question is what things can you do to help this process?

live alone? go to movies by yourself? i may seem naive about this because i have always had friends or roommates around but even still i put the value on women.

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See, this is what pisses me off. Everyone always say, "You have to be happy being alone," or "You have to love yourself first" and then when someone asks how do you do this...the question goes completely ignored. If you find yourself telling someone to be happy being alone, but you can't tell them exactly how, then shut the hell up and don't bother. :box:

boynamedsue, I can't tell you how because I don't know my damn self (so I won't even tell you to be happy being alone), but I will say that going to do things by yourself doesn't work...at least it didn't for me.

I still do things by myself and I always will, but like you, I'm just happier when I'm with someone then without. However, the "happier" part is relative. For example, if I have a threshold for happiness, let's say 0 (on a scale from -10 to 10), I would probably be a 3 when I don't have a girlfriend (the 3 is just an example). But, when I do have a girlfriend, I would be a 4 on my own personal 'happiness' scale.

- On a side note, before I discovered PUA sites, I was probably a -10 (suicidal to say the least). I'm no longer that severe because once I learned that I am not a victim of life (from reading all this stuff), it caused me to step up and take responsibility for my actions. However, I'm still nowhere near where I want to be -

Now, I know that this way of thinking is not the best way because sometimes, I will 'settle' (although I'm not as bad as I used to be) just so that I can have someone in my life (they are basically there to inflate my ego). However, I don't know how to change this way of thinking and haven't found anything yet that would help me change it.

The only time I am happy being alone is when I've gotten bored being around people and need a break from them. So, this leads me to believe that it's about having a choice. When you KNOW you have the option to be with someone else (a girlfriend or friends), but choose not to, then you can be happy being alone.

Relapse

I went all week without talking to her. She started sending me text messages Sat. morning saying she missed me. She asked if she could call me to talk and I said that was fine. She ended up coming over for a little bit to talk. She left to go to a concert and then sent me a text after the concert was over askign me if I wanted company. I said I didn't have anything else to do so she came over and she ended up staying the night.

I spent the next day at her house with my son talking about BPD, etc. After reading the DSM-IV criteria, she was a bit taken aback and said "I think this is what has been wrong with me my entire life." She wants to get treatment and wants me to ask my therapist if he can formally diagnose and treat her or recommend somebody that can.

I feel like I have taken a big step back because I had sex with her 3 times in the last 2 days. I don't feel as emotionally attached, but logically I know it's still a bad idea. She is back to telling me how sorry she is and that she realizes something is wrong with her (BPD) and she wants to fix it and the relationship. She has said that if I would be happier without her she would leave me alone (which I don't believe). I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow and a date with another woman, so I'll post an update with my clinical diagnosis results and his reaction to what I did over the weekend.

I'm going to a therapist today,

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Good, I'm sure the first bit of advice your therapist will give you is: stop asking for advice from random people on the internet.

Go to your shrink, lose the girl, and stay off the internet peer-therapy boards.