Ways Women Avoid Responsibility

(I was going to put this in the Discussion Forum but I didn't want the thread crapped on by young AFCs.)

I read The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar for the 2nd time yesterday. The book provides an interesting perspective and is fertile with ideas to explore. One thing in particular popped into my head after I read the book that I wanted to explore/discuss here. This is the theory that most women find ways to avoid taking responsibility.

Here are some ways in which I think they accomplish this:

- Expect and perpetuate social conventions that the man lead, take charge and initiate everything. In other words--have the man be responsible for everything.

- Act cute and childish. Feign helplessness. Most men take on the father/protector/provider role in response. This is a great social convention whereby the woman can continually place responsibility outside themselves.

- Communicate covertly rather than overtly. Covert communication is open to interpretation where overt is typically not. When things are open to interpretation it is easy to evade responsibility. Think about girls "hinting" at things instead of simply saying them. If they communicated in a straightforward fashion, they would have to take responsibility for what they said. However, if they never actually say it, they can easily evade responsibility or shift their "intended" meaning to best serve them.

- Perpetuate the myth and behave as though they are at the mercy of powerful emotions over which they have no control. Anybody who has spent time with an unmarried woman over 30 knows how unemotional, calculating, cunning, cold and shrewd women really are. Also, anybody who has dated a girl for a few months knows that PMS is never an issue at the beginning of the relationship. The girl easily controls her emotions during her probation period. Then after things get settled, PMS is no longer under their control. They are then at the mercy of their biology and their emotions and use this is a convenient excuse to act like a b!tch. Sometimes branch swingers also claim being confused by their emotions and use this as a convenient out to escape the consequences of their behavior.

- Need to get drunk or be seduced to have sex. This way they can say things like: "one thing lead to another" and "he swept me off my feet" and "it just happened". Thereby making anything that happens NOT THEIR FAULT.

- Put their faith in things like religion, astrology, psychics and the occult/supernatural which moves control of their life outside of their responsibility.

What other methods might women employ to evade responsibility?

There is an interesting scene in "Devil Wears Prada" where the Anne Hathaway character has a flirtatious relationship with the "jerk". She is clearly attracted but only sleeps with him After she gets drunk in "romantic" Paris and is swept off her feet. She does not make any excuses but the subtext is undeniable. The whole movie is an interesting study on Male Female dynamics.

DJCT said:

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What other methods might women employ to evade responsibility?

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How about their awesome willingness to twist whatever you said or whatever she said when those statements precede her acting badly (or God forbid) her making a mistake.
I am endlessly amused ,and appalled at the breathtaking energies that they are willing to expend in defending and justifying their blunders . Instead they will insult your character, twist and distort your statements, rewrite history , backstab you or trump up some hysterics , light fires of drama to create a smokescreen, cry on cue and doggedy lie to your face before they will simply say "Sorry".

Any wonder the divorce rate is > 50%

Great topic.

One of the best movie quotes of all time is from the movie As Good as it Gets with Jack Nicholson-

Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.

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This is one of those things that it's very important for men to understand, because once you understand it women make a LOT more sense.

Lack of accountability is a HUGE reason why women do a lot of the things they do that seem cold hearted and irrational.

I can count on a couple of fingers the number of times I have gotten a sincere apology from a woman, although I can't remember how many times I have given apologies when I know I was wrong.

STR8UP -- good thoughts on accountability.

DJCT said:

...Anybody who has spent time with an unmarried woman over 30 knows how unemotional, calculating, cunning, cold and shrewd women really are. ...

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Maybe a better way of putting this is to say that they are every bit capable of controlling their emotions as a man but generally prefer not to because they can get away with it. When they need to or want to though, they are entirely capable.

A lot is written about how women live more through their emotions than men. What do you guys think about that specifically?

Also, why--aside from attention--would women engage themselves in so much drama on a regular basis? I think Rollo wrote somewhere that there is a biological basis for this behavior but I can't find the post of his I'm looking for.

And a warning for anybody that is bitter towards women or has misogynistic tendencies: reading The Manipulated Man could push you over the edge. Keep in mind it is just one person's opinion. Men are as much a part of the current dynamic as women are and in my opinion the current situation is neither bad nor good. It exists as is and presents a challenge and an opportunity to learn and grow.

Well... a womans chemical make up is very different and more dynamic than ours. their brain functions are influenced by ever fluctuating estrogen levels. They can be rational and logical but they are very prone to emotionality They have to make a conscious effort to be logical at times as it is not natural for them so based on their strength they may or may not be able to do that,

As they age and loose power due to fading looks they compensate by becoming more "masculine" in their mental stile which is also possible due to falling estrogen levels...

But couldn't you make a similar argument for the man being emotionally charged due to his testosterone? Think about hotheaded guys that are aggressive and competitive, prone to fight.

We have to make a conscious effort to be logical at times too and consider guys that can't control their emotions to be immature.

DJCT said:

But couldn't you make a similar argument for the man being emotionally charged due to his testosterone? Think about hotheaded guys that are aggressive and competitive, prone to fight.

We have to make a conscious effort to be logical at times too and consider guys that can't control their emotions to be immature.

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The biological basis for women's emotional ways are irrelevant and largely nonsensical.

Men express their unrestrained emotions typically as anger.
THis can result in harm to others (as aggression) or at least create fear in a target so it is condemned, or at least frowned upon by society. A guy tossing a hissy fit and lashing out is regarded at childish and someone to be avoided. Even the law will step in in extreme cases.

Women rarely express their anger in the same way.It manifests as sadness, sullking, pouting, the silent treatment, *****ing comments or crying (the favorite). NOne of these are harmful or threatening to others so these actions do not alienate others..
Women have perfected the art of blame shifting too. So when they combine a crying display with a spluttering outburst of " he did this or that to me .." they easily gain a willing audience who extend understanding and sympathy.

Guys get arrested for being emotional and women get a hug from everyone .
Clever, huh !

So how do you confront this apparent lack of responsibility, accountability, and reason?

Do what they do, spin it back on to them in such a way that they end up contradicting themselves? Then you can point out their contradictions and inconsistencies?

By the way, most humanities female professors are probably the best at displaying these types of characteristics. They love to spin the truth and make inconsistent, paradoxical statements. When you point them out, they spin YOUR statement to make it sound more offensive than constructively critical (Hence, the attack on YOUR character). Humanities in this context includes everything that isn't science and mathematics.

The Bat said:

So how do you confront this apparent lack of responsibility, accountability, and reason?

Do what they do, spin it back on to them in such a way that they end up contradicting themselves? Then you can point out their contradictions and inconsistencies?

By the way, most humanities female professors are probably the best at displaying these types of characteristics. They love to spin the truth and make inconsistent, paradoxical statements. When you point them out, they spin YOUR statement to make it sound more offensive than constructively critical (Hence, the attack on YOUR character). Humanities in this context includes everything that isn't science and mathematics.

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When faced with this I confront it by simply standing my ground. She can try hissy fits, tantrums, crying, character assassination, silent treatment, sulking and everything else in the book, but if I know I'm in the right, I'm not going to budge. It helps that I have an excellent memory for exactly what was said in a situation and ruthless logic which I have no compunction is using to grind her arguments into the ground. This is what I've found works best for me, although be warned: if you do this they will either gain a new level of respect for you and be all over you, or they will absolutely hate you for ruining their fantasy of unaccountability. Fortunately its usually the former.

Also, I fully agree about the humanities professor thing. In my course we had to do a module in sociology in my first year. Nothing more than liberal, socialist and feminist propaganda with very little factual basis. Needless to say I wasn't a big fan and when I pointed out any inconsistencies in the arguments was labelled a fascist and a misogynist. However, by using the above methods the lecturer did in the end have to conclude that a lot of the 'evidence' she was using was dubious at best. These women always make me want to do the Borat "give me a smile *****cat" thing as well...

BadsnakeUK said:

Also, I fully agree about the humanities professor thing. In my course we had to do a module in sociology in my first year. Nothing more than liberal, socialist and feminist propaganda with very little factual basis.

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WTF were you thinking! The humanities are for girls, feminist sympathizers, androgynists, science and engineering dropouts and guys who still play KISS records or who think that Black and Decker were a rock duo from the 1980's.

GEt the f**k out of that wussy, whiney, social rainbowland and get on down to Home Depot today.. Touch the power tools, sniff the odors in the paint shop, feel the texture of the poly plumbing pipes - now that is REAL love.

clearly, when the original poster wrote this, he referred to women as a general stereo-type and i just wanted to point out a few things for the record.

i am not lacking in responsibility, nor do i avoid it.
there are lots of women out there just like me.
sure, i know some women who completely lack all sense of responsibility and expect to skate through life on their looks and what little "charm" the possess or can fake.
however, i am not one of those gals.
there are lots of things that i am responsible for in my household (which seems like everything unless i play diplomat and assign jobs to my husband or children), but who has the time to actually go and list them all?

now, i am in no way saying that my husband isn't responsible for his share, because he works full time, goes to school full time and has his own share of responsibilites.... but since the house and the kids have always belonged to me, i own up to my 3/4's of the responsibility around here.

but it isn't just about the job responsibilities or being a wife, mother and home owner, i have to be responsible in all aspects of my life and act accordingly at all times, or everything that i have worked so hard for , all my life, will fall apart. i am not sure about you, but i don't want to see my world crumble all because i didn't feel like doing something that i was supposed to do.
so i do those things anyhow, even when i don't feel like it.

there are tons of people just like me, men and women.
there are tons of people who do not hold up to their responsibilites, men and women.
in my world, i can name both men and women for each side.

if your world is so limiting that you can only name off women's names that are avoiding their responsibilities in life, then you clearly do not get out enough to realize how even it really is.

let me give you an example: how many men run away from being fathers?
see! men are known for avoiding responsibilites too.

i hope that there are no hard feelings since i have spoken up with my two cents, i liked that there is a thread about people not owning up to their responsibilites, however, i think that saying only women lack in the area is incorrect.

jophil28 said:

WTF were you thinking! The humanities are for girls, feminist sympathizers, androgynists, science and engineering dropouts and guys who still play KISS records or who think that Black and Decker were a rock duo from the 1980's.

GEt the f**k out of that wussy, whiney, social rainbowland and get on down to Home Depot today.. Touch the power tools, sniff the odors in the paint shop, feel the texture of the poly plumbing pipes - now that is REAL love.

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Read the post again! It was one module which I was forced to take as part of the course I'm doing. It was a liberal hippy hell from start to finish.

Humanist, I agree that not all humanities are havens of loony left thought and that things like history are ssential to understand our place in the world. However, sociology is one that seems to be full of crazy man-haters and symps, which is why I despised every second of it.

Penkitten, agreed that there are people of both sexes who shirk responsibility, but I think the OP is talking about/has mostly experienced girls of a certain age (17-24 usually) who think the world owes them a living. Usually the sort of girls who come up to me out of the blue in clubs and bars asking if I want to but them a drink. I know it's not representative of all women but there's a massive and growing section of the female population who feel like that and act like spoiled children with a massive sense of entitlement. I think this is the group being described in the OP.

BadsnakeUK said:

Penkitten, agreed that there are people of both sexes who shirk responsibility, but I think the OP is talking about/has mostly experienced girls of a certain age (17-24 usually) who think the world owes them a living. Usually the sort of girls who come up to me out of the blue in clubs and bars asking if I want to but them a drink. I know it's not representative of all women but there's a massive and growing section of the female population who feel like that and act like spoiled children with a massive sense of entitlement. I think this is the group being described in the OP.

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i was pretty sure he was just generalizing the stereo typical woman he has came into contact with and i noted that before my reply.


i do know that there are always a ton of that sort of women at the clubs , but that right there should be a "disqualifying" trait, when one approaches you to ask you if you want to buy them a drink. hell no, you came to buy yourself drinks and you don't need a beggar leach following you around telling you it is her birthday and other antidotes for you to pay for her night.

A < 25 member actually had a great post on the lack of legal and social consequences for physically abusive women, but alas, it was deleted.

This has long been a point of annoyance for me as well. To use a lighter example, I have hung out with a few girls in the past who think that "hitting" guys is cute, especially when they are drinking. To a point this is ok, but it inevitably escalates. It starts out with shoulder-slaps, then goes to closed-fist punching, then face-slapping, and eventually nutshots. You all know what Im talking about. The girl who milks her "weakness" for all it's worth when you even attempt to restrain her or playfully tag her back.

I could be legally reprimanded for saying this in public, but I think if a woman is going to come at a man with serious intent of bodily injury (not in self defense), the man should have every legal right to defend himself, by any reasonable means. This is the way it was up until recent history. In other words, if a woman is trying to inflict life-altering damage to my testicles, then all bets are off.

Even the dumbest fox knows better than to attack a bear.

DJCT-- Another great post, BTW. I think your examples were good, especially point #2 and #4.

BadsnakeUK said:

Read the post again! It was one module which I was forced to take as part of the course I'm doing. It was a liberal hippy hell from start to finish.

.

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WEll OK then. If it was ONLY one module, you will probably survive the experience with your nads still attached. ha ha !

Perhaps my sneering contempt did not reveal itself in the humorous way that it was intended.

BTW you stiil need to know about Black and Decker...

I think this thread should more appropriately be titled "Ways Women Avoid Accountability"

Penny- I am totally convinced that lack of accountability is an inherently feminine trait. I have been in one too many situations where I knew I was right, and I'm pretty damn sure the woman knew it too, but they RARELY back down and issue apologies when they are due. I believe that this trait has served women well over the millennia, and I doubt it will be going away anytime soon.

STR8UP I think you are exactly right. And I agree that accountability is a better fit for what I'm talking about than responsibility.

I'm definitely NOT generalizing about a specific age range or type of woman such as party girls either. I see these techniques used by women that hold senior positions in corporations, women that are independent and have responsibilities such as raising children, owning and running businesses, owning and managing homes, etc. I would call them responsible. Yet they use techniques I list above to evade accountability. I would say that finding ways to evade accountability is their modus operandi. There are always exceptions. But I find this to be applicable to MOST women.

I have specific examples in mind from my young female cousins, my now-deceased grandmothers, my aunts, my mother, women I have dated both short term and long term (ages 22 - 44), female friends, women I've worked with, women I don't even know directly, etc.

I believe this mindset and the set of techniques for avoiding accountability is something that is cultivated in most women from a very young age with society rewarding it (thus reinforcing it) throughout their lives. I live in the US and am talking about American women mostly. But I have observed Polish, Muslim, Hispanic, Canadian and German women I have known that are no different in this respect.

I agree that all of us, men and women, have our own bag of tricks and questionable behaviors. With respect to you Penkitten, I acknowledge what you are saying but what men do is not the topic being discussed here. I'm looking to explore the theory that women do seek to avoid accountability and identify the different ways women go about doing it so that we as men can increase our understanding of women and our ability to better manage our lives in respect to women.

DJCT said:

...I'm looking to explore the theory that women do seek to avoid accountability and identify the different ways women go about doing it so that we as men can increase our understanding of women and our ability to better manage our lives in respect to women.

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That is no theory, my friend. That, as Walter Cronkite would have said, is the way it is.

I think it's a good topic. When I reached a certain age i realized that a glaring lack of accountability is innate to women. Generally speaking, women tend to avoid accepting responsibility for negative outcomes in their life. You had some key examples:

-Playing the "emotionally ruled" card
-Playing the cute and innocent card
-Vague or indirect communication
-Generally playing dumb after a negative event has occured
-Misdirections, projections, ad hominem, or the classic--bringing up something that you did 5 years ago to validate their actions or redirect the argument

Like Str8up said, it's not going to go away.

I have, however, met women who are genuinely responsible and personally accountable people, so they do exist.

DJCT said:

STR8UP I think you are exactly right. And I agree that accountability is a better fit for what I'm talking about than responsibility.

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"Accountability" is THE better word here.
Women's abhorrence of being shown to be "at fault" or "in the wrong" is indeed universal. It is just the way they are, all over the world..

This is one of my all time grand irritations with women.

I have seen women wreck relationships rather that admit that they fvkked up - they will strain every muscle, argue until dawn, twist and distort history and even assassinate their SOs character to strangers before they will accept any accountablilty for finding themselves in a ditch.

This is a character defect and an ethically shortcoming.

( I am waiting for the pragmatists to write two pages to "explain" to the ignorant amongst us why this behavior in women has its roots in biological or psychological evolution ..)