Something I don't understand/Why is trying too hard a turnoff?

Learning · Apr 18, 2008

Hi everyone

It's good to be here. I really like this forum. I got a question about trying too hard to get a woman.

From everything I've read, trying too hard to get a woman is a turnoff attraction wise. From what I've experienced, this seems to be the case as well.

What I don't understand is this. Quitting is a weak trait. It's not a manly trait. Not giving up on something until the job is accomplished is a manly trait. Women like men who are men. Manly traits build attraction. This would lead one to believe that trying hard would attract women.

However, this is not the case. If you go this route than you are deemed needy and desperate which is a turnoff. This would mean it's a biological thing.

So why are females semmingly naturally built this way? Why does trying too hard turn off women? Does it show you're less confident?

The one thing I can think of is that trying too hard indicates you don't have too many options with women. Women naturally like men who have lots of options with women as it makes them more attractive. So if you're needy the less options you have and thus the less attractive you are?

Thought anyone?

DonGorgon · Apr 18, 2008

Cause it means you probably dont have many other women to focus on which most women see as a sign that women dont find you attractive, then, they shouldnt either... Yup they are twisted and we must twist if we want to F them..LOL

KontrollerX · Apr 18, 2008

DonGorgon gave the correct answer.

I sometimes wonder though if the way women act today towards this is how they have always acted throughout history towards this or if the way they are acting towards this today is just a product of our sick western culture.

What do you think Learning? DonGorgon?? Anybody???

BeyondCharm · Apr 18, 2008

It's cultural and is a product of our magazine culture mostly which is where most women have learnt since Junior high how to act towards boys.

Learning · Apr 18, 2008

DonGorgon said:
Cause it means you probably dont have many other women to focus on which most women see as a sign that women dont find you attractive the they shouldnt either... Yup they are twisted and we must twist if we want to F them..LOL

Well, sometimes I wish it wasn't that way but you can't blame them. It's a natural thing I guess just like how I'm attracted to nice looking girls first and foremost. It's not fair to the girls that aren't quite as pretty (and I feel bad about that) but it's nature.

TheEdgeOf · Apr 18, 2008

Why do women find persistence as a turn off. Well, the most likely answer is because women are aliens that live to confuse the hell out of guys, but the real answer is probably something the lines of what you said. It's natural for humans to want what they can't have, which is why if you make yourself too easy to get, she probably wont want to get you. But, if you make yourself a challenge and don't act as if you need her, she'll be more inclined to want you.

Edit: Yeah, I'm with DonGorgon, his answer is better

Learning · Apr 18, 2008

KontrollerX said:
DonGorgon gave the correct answer.

I sometimes wonder though if the way women act today towards this is how they have always acted throughout history towards this or if the way they are acting towards this today is just a product of our sick western culture.

What do you think Learning? DonGorgon?? Anybody???

Culture does influence.

Hmm, maybe we should get together on the board hare and gather up some money. Than we'll send some guy on a trip around the world where he tries to pick up woman everywhere by being needy and desperate. We'll compare the results from all the different cultures and see what happens. Could use a time machine here too!

DonGorgon · Apr 18, 2008

KontrollerX said:
DonGorgon gave the correct answer.

I sometimes wonder though if the way women act today towards this is how they have always acted throughout history towards this or if the way they are acting towards this today is just a product of our sick western culture.

What do you think Learning? DonGorgon?? Anybody???

Capitalism has also made i worse by erasing the old social construct that influenced male female dating dynamics... Now we all compete with each other for the same jobs and money so they dont really need us that much anymore... They see it as being liberated.. or independent... and away want their need to make an effort to maintain relationships..

MotownMack · Apr 18, 2008

Actually, this answer to this is more based in human nature, more than it is gender-based.

We want what's exciting, mysterious, challenging, rare, etc... some people to greater degrees than others.

You don't have to put your imagination to work very hard to see where this would be a turn off you to you too. Extreme example, but envision a girl who had no life outside of you-that was always there when you called, had no other real interests, agreed with everything you said, always tried to please you to the point of making you uncomfortable.

Life is a balance between extreme certainty (which is extremely boring) and extreme uncertainty (which can be stressful and terrifying).

In the context of dating, what actually happens when either sex tries to hard- is a well documented in the DJ world as Demonstration of Lower Value (DLV). In your case, the girl becomes well aware of your infatuation with her, and now considers to herself to unconsciously be worthy of more than you can provide. You're too easy, you're boring.... you're an AFC.

Avn_0903 · Apr 18, 2008

Women don't find persistence a turn off but neediness is. Neediness is different from persistence. As long as u r persistent but don't act needy, it's going to be ok.

DonGorgon · Apr 18, 2008

Avn_0903 said:
Women don't find persistence a turn off but neediness is. Neediness is different from persistence. As long as u r persistent but don't act needy, it's going to be ok.

Fine line there..

DonGorgon · Apr 18, 2008

MotownMack said:
In the context of dating, what actually happens when either sex tries to hard- is a well documented in the DJ world as Demonstration of Lower Value (DLV). In your case, the girl becomes well aware of your infatuation with her, and now considers to herself to unconsciously be worthy of more than you can provide. You're too easy, you're boring.... you're an AFC.

Exactly!

Jitterbug · Apr 18, 2008

KontrollerX said:
DonGorgon gave the correct answer.

I sometimes wonder though if the way women act today towards this is how they have always acted throughout history towards this or if the way they are acting towards this today is just a product of our sick western culture.

What do you think Learning? DonGorgon?? Anybody???

Don't know about other cultures but it's about the same with Asians. Cold-approaching an all-Asian set is the hardest, unless you have social proof (preferably within the group, or someone the group know). The concept of the eligible bachelor desired for marriage by many women existed deep in East Asian history back in the arranged marriage / polygamy days (centuries ago), AFAIK. Matchmakers always had a list of such eligible bachelors handy and knew the competitions the girl must overcome. The harder it is, the more they'd get paid.

Human beings are social animals. Social proof is important. I'd guess that it's the same everywhere.

Jitterbug · Apr 18, 2008

Avn_0903 said:
Women don't find persistence a turn off but neediness is. Neediness is different from persistence. As long as u r persistent but don't act needy, it's going to be ok.

Yep.

It's an art of walking the thin rope separating:

Persistence - Neediness

Interest - Infatuation

Confidence - Boastfulness

Learning · Apr 18, 2008

Avn_0903 said:
Women don't find persistence a turn off but neediness is. Neediness is different from persistence. As long as u r persistent but don't act needy, it's going to be ok.

Please elaborate on this. Thanks in advance.

DonJuan11 · Apr 18, 2008

Learning said:
Why does trying too hard turn off women?

Imagine you initially had some attraction to a girl. You thought she was cute and that you could eventually date her. You go out for coffee and think she's alright, you could see her again in 3-4 days.

She phones you the next day, says "I really really liked you, maybe we can go to dinner again tomorrow if you're not too busy." You go to dinner, you don't the same spark again. Then she phones you that night "I really really like you, do you want to do a movie tomorrow?" Then she starts phoning you 2-3 times a day. Then she gives in to do anything you want. Then you realize she has no friends to hang out with, no job, no life except being with you. Then you realize she cannot find another guy if her life depended on it and will not be able to have sex with anyone unless she asks for sex from you. Then she tells you you cannot leave her and she loves you to the end of time and she is frustrated you are have not realized what a great "catch" see is and it turns to a bit of stalking on her end.

Would that turn you on?

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BeyondCharm · Apr 18, 2008

DonJuan11 said:
Imagine you initially had some attraction to a girl. You thought she was cute and that you could eventually date her. You go out for coffee and think she's alright, you could see her again in 3-4 days.

She phones you the next day, says "I really really liked you, maybe we can go to dinner again tomorrow if you're not too busy." You go to dinner, you don't the same spark again. Then she phones you that night "I really really like you, do you want to do a movie tomorrow?" Then she starts phoning you 2-3 times a day. Then she gives in to do anything you want. Then you realize she has no friends to hang out with, no job, no life except being with you. Then you realize she cannot find another guy if her life depended on it and will not be able to have sex with anyone unless she asks for sex from you. Then she tells you you cannot leave her and she loves you to the end of time and she is frustrated you are have not realized what a great "catch" see is and it turns to a bit of stalking on her end.

Would that turn you on?

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Straight Outta Compton? I'm Straight Outta Trailer!

If she looked like this: http://www.alexwoo.com/web/news-press/archives/images/si/2007-calendar-nov.jpg

Yes it would... I'd be turned on very much.

ArtVandelay · Apr 18, 2008

http://blogetty.com/pics/2007_07/Winona_Ryder.jpg

She could stalk me until my last day on earth and I wouldn't hold it against her.

In all seriousness, men and women operate differently. If some UG or fattie that I had no interest in anyway was that interested in me, it'd be a turnoff. Why? Because I'm not interested in her anyway and her neediness makes her ugly and annoying instead of just ugly.

If a girl I found attractive showed that much interest in me, that'd mean no game playing, no, "This cute guy at work keeps asking me out" sh*t tests. It'd mean sex whenever you wanted. It'd mean you could watch MacGyver reruns on a Friday Night instead of dragging her a** out for dinner. It would mean you could live your life and at least know that the women department is covered and be free of the bullsh*t that comes with dating a drama queen.

iqqi · Apr 18, 2008

Avn_0903 said:
Women don't find persistence a turn off but neediness is. Neediness is different from persistence. As long as u r persistent but don't act needy, it's going to be ok.

A++ answer, kiddo.

To elaborate, OP, just read this:

Confident Persistence

and this:

More Confident Persistence

DonJuan11 · Apr 19, 2008

ArtVandelay said:
http://blogetty.com/pics/2007_07/Winona_Ryder.jpg

She could stalk me until my last day on earth and I wouldn't hold it against her.

In all seriousness, men and women operate differently. If some UG or fattie that I had no interest in anyway was that interested in me, it'd be a turnoff. Why? Because I'm not interested in her anyway and her neediness makes her ugly and annoying instead of just ugly.

If a girl I found attractive showed that much interest in me, that'd mean no game playing, no, "This cute guy at work keeps asking me out" sh*t tests. It'd mean sex whenever you wanted. It'd mean you could watch MacGyver reruns on a Friday Night instead of dragging her a** out for dinner. It would mean you could live your life and at least know that the women department is covered and be free of the bullsh*t that comes with dating a drama queen.

Playing games and tests about other cute guys are her problem and insecurity issues, not yours. If you let them bother you, she is winning whatever game she is playing. If she knows she can control your mood and behavior, you are done for my friend.

There is a difference between her showing genuine interest in you and her being extremely needy. No matter what she looked like, if she phoned you 3 times a day and acted needy and desparate and had no life outside of you, you would not be turned after the first month. The sex, like anything in life, gets boring after a while. And if you're just meeting drama queens, they are either too young or you are meeting the wrong women.

Something I don't understand/Why is trying too hard a turnoff?

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