Learning to NEXT

This will be a long post, but it is my intro to these forums. I have been reading a lot of the stuff on here lately, and other than the high school related stuff (lol), there is a lot of valuable material and perspectives here.

That said. Let me introduce my situation. I am an attorney in a large southern city, near the top of my profession for my age. I got married too young at 22 after college. We split up (she ended up leaving cause I just didn’t care anymore) in late 06, but we’ve actually been quite cordial (no hooking up or anything) since then so that’s the least of my problems.

I’ve been working where I do since late 04. A woman 4 years my senior (in age) started working there in 05. She had a live-in bf and I was married, so we were friendly among a large group of work colleagues, going out drinking a lot and stuff. Well, by early 07 I was single and her bf moved away and they broke it off. Here we are, both available and things immediately clicked. She is not (even close to) a ten, but I find her attractive (although I have dated better in the past). We start “dating” and quickly progress on to sort of a fb situation, which was cool.

Fast forward fall of 07, she basically calls me out on treating her as a fb and not a gf. She basically shut it down on that basis, however, over a drama filled weekend, I realize “I cannot be without her” (sheesh) and she concedes, we re-unite and then are bf/gf exchange “I love yous” etc.

Fast forward again to first week of Jan, 08. I get back from a long trip and we have a great weekend together. I told her I realized that I probably did not treat her right early on, that I wanted to make it better going forward etc… She says ok. A week later, after some somewhat unfriendly visits, I get no contact for three days then an email telling me all the reasons she cannot be with me. I push back with begging and pleading, she starts to relent and then unleashes a very mean second email basically really telling me off and exposing all of my flaws.

From this point, I hit the AFC wall hard. I was a blubbering mess. Trying to “get her back” every way that I thought I could: making myself indispensable; being the “best friend;” sucking up to her family; crying bull**** interrogating her friends on what I could do, etc – the whole nine yards. I call it the hall of douche-dom.

Of course, none of this worked, but she gladly kept me on as her AFC/IW. I supplicated in every way over the next couple of months, each time hoping the fact that she was inviting me over, emailing me, etc. was some sort of “sign” that we were about to get back together.

Anyway, over the past 2-3 weeks I have been doing a lot of reading, starting with ladder theory, and then progressing to forums like this one. I have begun to realize I am at fault for my situation, not her. She is just using a resource that is freely given, who can blame her? It was my not understanding what I am worth, what I can offer, my value, etc, that led to my insecurity, AFC-ness, and desperation – in other words, the solution was inside me, not inside her or anyone else. I was supplicating everything about me for a person who didn’t even want to have me as a bf.

Starting after the split in early Jan, I joined a gym and am doing about 4 days of workouts a week (cardio/weights) plus a lot of long walks. I have toned up and de-fatted a good deal over the past two months, and have gotten a lot of comments and attention from people who have noticed the change. I feel better and stronger. I’m working on things like eye contact and posture too.

Well, after learning up on the true way of women, I decided at the beginning of the month that the only way to go was to “next” this woman and move on to spinning multiple plates. Fortunately, I was out of town for the whole first week of the month, which made it easy to have no contact. However, since being back I have had to have some contact with her (as I said we work together). I have avoided any type of nexting ceremony, and have limited contact to just that needed to get the job done (if at all). However, seeing her again last night at a social event I really felt bad, like I was the one being the **** in the situation (yes, I know, I know). Is this common? Is this another trap – i.e. next me then get guilt trip. I know she knows a difference, that I’m not doing the IW thing anymore for her. What do I say if she calls me out on it directly? “I’m really busy” to me sounds like bull**** and I worry could enhance the drama if she feels I’m not being straight with her.

Bottom line, sorry for the long post but I need some tips on making a strong early NEXT last the duration, without being a total **** in the process (the way I read it, a proper next avoids drama).

Thanks in advance fellow warriors

There is a link at the bottom of the main page of the forum called "The DJ Bible".

Some of the best help you can get from the forum is to click on that link and read "The book of Pook" which is contained within it.

After that read tons of Interceptor and Victory Unlimited posts. You can find these guys by using the search feature or simply browsing around the forum as they are still active posters.

As for what you do with this woman now you have to keep up the no contact as much as possible because you have moved on.

If she notices a change, if she starts calling you immature for not being her friend anymore or any of that type of crap at all you have to deflect it and drive her insane with your politeness and courteousness in that you will say to her calmly "What are you talking about? We are friends" but you basically only give her responses like this to mess with her mind and you no longer are at her beck and call to be her emotional tamp0n. If she says you are acting immature or anything insultive like that you can turn things around on her and suggest that she's changed and say "you always used to be so polite, I wonder if you'll ever tell me whats bothering you?"

To beat her in this game you basically have to be cordial and polite and turn her stupid insults and psychological warfare around on her since you must maintain contact for professional reasons as any deviation from that such as a silent treatment or extremely short responses when talking to her will send her the message that you are angry and that she has won and you are just so in love with her you can't contain yourself.

Here is a good post from Pook I've decided to link for ya to get you started on your reading and deprogramming from society's AFC teachings...

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16796

thank you kontroller, that is the type of advice I am looking for. since I've been back at work I can "feel" her frustration and her attempts to get me back into IW Land appear to be accelerating/becoming more direct, thus it's becoming more of a challenge to me. It's an ego boost for sure, but one I know I cannot act on because all this effort will be for naught if I jump back into AFC territory.

I will read the Bible and Pook's work, thanks for the direction

You have to use that intellect to try to understand your Rewards versuse your Costs.

What are you getting from this woman?

Nothing, but cold, distrust, condescension, and general mistreatment..disrespect.


Maintain your dignity, and self respect at all times.

Face it, this woman IS Nexted!

She nexted herself.

Let her go.

No need for some 'ceremony'.

And no need for ANY MAJOR decision or some dramatic overture attempt at closure or God forbid...REVENGE on her.


The ONLY thing you NEED to be is a mature masculine man whom has regained his POWER.

The only thing you have to DO is be cordial and have common courtesy with her.

The only MAJOR Decision you MUST MAKE is to repair this damage and heal, and ADDRESS your inner issues.

Make a COMMITMENT to CHANGE and work on a DEDICATED Program of Self Improvement, and Self Cultivation.
Work on your Well Being, and LEARN the skills of MANAGING it.




There is nothing there for you except the memory of past ego validation, and some sexual pleasure.

Always go back to this..
..initially you were not THAT attracted to her.

YOU gave her some power over you.

You willingly gave it.


This is clearly lack of self esteem and options. In additon, to a somewhat immture method of handling women's attraction, affections, interests, and sexuality.

You gave her the power as SHE pulled back and YOU started CHASING her.
A woman you were not even into.

You have to dig deep and find out your reasons for this.
I know we chase what we beleieve we cannot have, but you must find out WHY you did in this particular instance.






It was NOT the woman you were 'chasing'.

Interceptor said:

This is clearly lack of self esteem and options. In additon, to a somewhat immture method of handling women's attraction, affections, interests, and sexuality.

You gave her the power as SHE pulled back and YOU started CHASING her.
A woman you were not even into.

You have to dig deep and find out your reasons for this.
I know we chase what we beleieve we cannot have, but you must find out WHY you did in this particular instance.



It was NOT the woman you were 'chasing'.

Click to expand...

Exactly what happened to me. My last oneitis, I was not attracted to at first. She chased me, I fell, I chased her, game over. This must be the formula.

I thought that since we had similar interests and she fed my ego she was my soul-mate. :nervous:

I must have matured a few years in a few months. I get it now. I don't know if this makes sense, or if it's wrong, but I'm starting to see the same woman everywhere. Sure they are all unique individual, but they all act the same. Do the same stuff under the same circumstances. I see the patterns.

Anyway good post and it should wake some people up.

ok, this is becoming almost a real-time help thread, lol

let me say I am AMAZED at how accurate the ladder theory, understanding of women (i.e. from this site) is. You could predict the future with this stuff. It's the end of the workday (at least for her) and I've been reaaal good all day at not biting at little email jokes and stuff but responding to professional stuff where I otherwise would need to.

Well, I thought I made it through. 20 minutes ago I get a knock at my (closed) office door (she works on another floor) -- guess what, it's her -- she comes in and closes the door behind her, literally giving me no non-awkward, non-drama way to extricate myself. She sits in here for 20 minutes giving me hardcore eye contact and wanting to engage me on every (trivial) thing that is going on around work and in her life. Not seeing a valiant way out of the situation, I make small talk with her but do not not take the bait on making future plans, etc., and when I did talk about myself noted that I've been busy/meeting a lot of new people, etc. -- what I would consider to be subtle messages that I'm trying to get out of this IW situation but not rudely.

Everything was polite and she did not go "there" (although I could feel that she was trying to feel out the basis for the "new me" the whole time) so there was no awkwardness or drama. I think it was a win/win -- I didn't provoke any drama and did not fall into any AFC behavior (other than participating in the coversation itself).

A couple observations, guys, those that say women want a challenge are 100% right. All my life, I've tried to buy love with niceness, money, support, etc., and have generally failed. I now see that if you have some basic attraction + presentation of a challenge women will get very aggressive.

But **** THAT I am not going to forgo what I view as a positive course of change (one that hinges on this NEXT) just to fufill some temporary need to feel acceptance from her again -- that's supplication and giving her what she wants, I'd go right back into that BF --> LJBF/DRAMA --> AFC/IW mode, for sure without a doubt.

I have also realized that a NEXT from a fairly deep entanglement is much more than ceasing or limiting contact. It requires a whole frame change of mind and will be challenging long after the intial urge to call/email is overcome.

I welcome more input DJers.

thanks interceptor and reset, wonderful posts

I am glad I am here with you guys

Yeah stay away from her for a long time fromNBtoOB as this was just a drawn out extended psychological warfare exercise from her otherwise known as a sh!t test.

She sees new life in your eyes, new purpose, you don't need her anymore and oh does she know it.

She is feeling you out to see if you are worth conquering again, if you can be conquered again and thats all she wants.

So if she starts in with wanting a relationship or any of that b.s about getting together you need to shut her down. Not in an assh0le way mind you but in a polite and tired way by saying something like "you know I just don't think thats a good idea at this point in my life, I'm so busy with everything" then of course you just continue business as usual from there by meeting new chicks and banging them.

In other words like with a woman's stupid games your words to her don't match your actions ie you are telling her you are too busy to have a relationship with her at the moment but in the meanwhile you've got hot babes all over your j0ck which is news that will probably trickle back to her somehow someway and drive her crazy that you just won't make her part of your rotation.

She'll think "am I not good enough?" "am I not pretty?" etc.

Yeah though basically she's lost her opportunity with you for a long time or maybe forever depending on what you want because of her poor past behaviour towards you.

Besides you need to get your DJ footing and take in the knowledge and experience before you'll ever be able to give her a proper go again anyway if that is what you want to do but she doesn't know that. She'll just think you've rejected her for one of many reasons that will drive her nuts because she just doesn't know what the reason could be.

This will not be much help to the OP but it ocurred in his situation.

Has anyone ever noticed how after a trip together or a weekend away with each other or in general just something good happening with the women you are dating. Its like they know when the hook is set. The DRAMA and games immediatly begin.

Its amazing.

I think someone posted about this before.

Not enough drama then the girl isn't getting her needs met. If she tests you and you shut her down maybe the jolt of energy will be enough to last her a few weeks.

logic - you're right

I think it has something to do with the "they chase you, you reciprocate, trapped" phenomenon mentioned above -- usually you have that big "coming together/finally share our feelings" weekend away or something -- to the AFC this is paradise (hence that last good w/e, trip, etc.) but I am learning to the girl it just signals game, set, match, the deal is done -- next! etc.

I'm holding it down so far today. So far so good.

"What we've got here is a - (beat) - failure to communicate."

You were caught in her web of constant affirmation and vying incessantly for her attention. You became her girlfriend. No nice way to say it brother.

When that failed you kicked into purchasing her attention with your time and money. You became her girlfriend with a wallet.

Then you plummet to the bottom with the: "I love you's".

She had you and you became her girlfriend with a wallet with a puppy dogs tail tucked between your legs.

You died.

Actually your AFC died and like a Pheonix rising from Arizona you've come out of your coccoon and have metamorphosized into a new MAN.

Going to the gym will expell any amount of residual hate each time you go ass to grass (I had to throw in a nod to Brother Warboss ) and cause exterior change which will lead to interior maturation.

Reflection, brother, is all we have to guage our future. Make it known that she will do every-fvcking-thing she can to wrangle you back into her fold.

Everything. She offer you HER time, HER money, HER flesh, in order to get back the one thing she's addicted to:

Attention.

You have to weigh what's important to you. Is keeping your self respect and your acumen as a confident and spirited man more important than lying down and putting your meatwhistle into this woman? It will be difficult to deny her but it's what you have to do. She'll no doubt go the way of enticing you by garnering other men's attention in front of you or in a way in which she's absolutely positive you'll know about it.

You have to remember what Brad Delp sang in these situations brother:

"It's been such a long time, I think I should be going.
Time doesn't wait for me, it keeps on rolling."

Keep rolling on my man. Treat her like one of your colleagues and nothing more. Whatever you do, DO NOT ACT IRRATIONALLY OR EMOTIONALLY. This will feed her addiction and have her all in your mix.

Be cordial but distant. Eventually she's going to realize there are other AFC fish to bite her hook.

By then, you'll be face first in other women.

With the tools you have at your fingertips you won't ever need to rely on luck Brother. You can do it.

****ing -a, k.s. -- great post, truly inspirational

so far today have gotten 4 emails from her, responded to one as it was quasi-work related, also bumped into her on my way down to lunch -- avoided a prolonged stop and chat. what do I see when I get back to my desk? 2 more emails! lol.

I just have to convince myself that this is her AFC acting out and is not a signal that she truly wants to be with me -- she had that chance -- as you noted, she is just trying to maintain that attention level, god forbid someone doesn't dote on all the bull**** in her life.

My first NEXT is becoming a challenge!

Do we have this topic covered in the DJ bible? If not why not add it?

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=140745
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=137901

I think a big thread should be merged and included in the archive/ DJ Bible.

logic1 said:

This will not be much help to the OP but it ocurred in his situation.

Has anyone ever noticed how after a trip together or a weekend away with each other or in general just something good happening with the women you are dating. Its like they know when the hook is set. The DRAMA and games immediatly begin.

Its amazing.

I think someone posted about this before.

Click to expand...

Jezz! Man, now I got scared. That´s exactly what happened with "my" girl. After that everything went downhill. What conclusions can we draw? How can we find a solution?

I'm posting from a break I have from a meeting. she is in the meeting. I think she has gotten that i am trying to "next" although I still haven't said anything. the more I look at her the more I see the problems she has and why it wouldn't or shouldn't work or why I shouldn't try, but jesus christ this is killing me. I am learning that there must be some part of me that WANTS to be put in this situation, again and again, it's like I'm seeking out validation, which I know will lead to heartbreak if not outright rejecttion. This is very hard. I am doing it, but very hard. So many of these commentators act like the nexting should be second nature or the easy first step. It is not. Far from it. I'd rather approach a million girls than keep going through this. I am getting really depressed.

fromNBtoOB said:

I'm posting from a break I have from a meeting. she is in the meeting. I think she has gotten that i am trying to "next" although I still haven't said anything. the more I look at her the more I see the problems she has and why it wouldn't or shouldn't work or why I shouldn't try, but jesus christ this is killing me. I am learning that there must be some part of me that WANTS to be put in this situation, again and again, it's like I'm seeking out validation, which I know will lead to heartbreak if not outright rejecttion. This is very hard. I am doing it, but very hard. So many of these commentators act like the nexting should be second nature or the easy first step. It is not. Far from it. I'd rather approach a million girls than keep going through this. I am getting really depressed.

Click to expand...

Anything worth doing is worth sacrifice. I don't read one word from any post where this is going to be a walk on the beach? If you want to get past it, you'll need to look past yourself and kick your ego right in the balls. Keep your perspective and know, without a goddamned doubt, that breaking from this broad will cause you to change your thought process.

One instance of courage begets unlimited confidence. 100% of the time.
Exponentially so thereafter.

You can do it brother.

KarmaSutra said:

Anything worth doing is worth sacrifice. I don't read one word from any post where this is going to be a walk on the beach? If you want to get past it, you'll need to look past yourself and kick your ego right in the balls. Keep your perspective and know, without a goddamned doubt, that breaking from this broad will cause you to change your thought process.

One instance of courage begets unlimited confidence. 100% of the time.
Exponentially so thereafter.

You can do it brother.

Click to expand...

thank you sir, I needed a kick in the ass. I've got to keep this up and not get weak.

The first next is always the hardest. Soon it will be second nature, just like Karma says your strength gains momentum.

Pop your nexting cherry!

reset said:

The first next is always the hardest. Soon it will be second nature, just like Karma says your strength gains momentum.

Pop your nexting cherry!

Click to expand...

oh man! it is my habit now..really gains momentum

First are hardest..