Building Attraction . . . a gaping hole in the Mystery Method???

Dongfu · Sep 25, 2007

Stemming from my post about validating the MM, I came across this subject of creating attraction.

I got to thinking, "is this possible or realistic."

Hi, I'm 31 . . . and here is my thoughts jk-lol

Let's look at it the simplest way. When you meet a girl, does she have to build attraction before you are interested in her? Not me.

Based on her appearence, overall vibe, and the sound of her voice, the way she moves her eyes, how she introduces herself, what she says, how she moves . . .

all of these things I experience INSTANTLY, not after 10 minutes of her running game on me.

There are both pretty and not so pretty women who I would not sleep with no matter what they say or do. If I dont feel it, I dont feel it.

To me, attraction is like two magnets, you either cant keep them appart, or you cant push them together, depending on the orientation.

So I personally have doubts about the idea of 'building attracting'

You can interest her, you can tease her, you can make her laugh, you can neg her, but I feel she will decide whether or not she is attracted to you the moment you meet.

Further more, I feel that the games women play, like acting uninterested, and blocking your efforts before succumbing, give to the illusion that you were building attraction. Just because it took you a while to get confirmation of interest, doesnt mean it wasnt there from the beginning. Women can hide it well, to test you.

A word on "jealousy plot lines" and "hired guns," as advocated by Mystery.

These are methods that appeal to her ego and superficial reasoning. She may show interest in you when using these techniques, but it is not because she is necessarily attracted to "you". She is attracted to the "Idea" of winning you, or getting you away from the b!tch she doesnt like etc.

Relationships that start under this premise go no where. You may bang her a couple times, but it wont be that great, because there was no real intense attraction, which is what results in great sex.

Dong has spoken . . .

What do you guys think?

ketostix · Sep 25, 2007

Let's look at it the simplest way. When you meet a girl, does she have to build attraction before you are interested in her? Not me.

Based on her appearence, overall vibe, and the sound of her voice, the way she moves her eyes, how she introduces herself, what she says, how she moves . . .

all of these things I experience INSTANTLY, not after 10 minutes of her running game on me.

I totally agree with you and I think women are much more similar to guys in this way too. I think this is basically how attraction works for women too when you cut through all the fog. The only difference is we males are more absolute in weighing a woman's objective physicalities and men have to pass all those same test plus women will scrutinize are mood, confidence level, how eager we seem to want sex and on and on with arbitrary and subjective evaluations.

It comes down to the definition of F to M attraction. Mystery and Deangelo claim that attraction is mostly created with words and conveying a certain attitude. MM even calls it attraction phase: DHV, neg to create attraction. DD: C+F creates attraction. At most doing these things could AMPLIFY attraction (or kill it if done wrong) that is already there for the reasons mentioned by you earlier, but it can't create attraction IMO.

And I also agree with you there's a difference between real attraction and just interest. You can create interest with some girls if she has at least a smidgen of attraction already using those tactics but it will probably just turn into a very short, meaningless fling. I think this is what a lot of "PUAs" aim for.

Bottom line some of these tactics and tips will work towards getting the lay (but sometimes they still backfire) but ONLY if you have that attraction in the first place. If you don't nothing you do will work.

COD · Sep 25, 2007

FOR ONE THING.........ITS BUILD COMFORT........never did he say build attraction mr. smarty pants. Mystery agrees that attraction is not a choice and if you truly read any of his books other than watching vh1 presentation you would have already knew this.

Further more..........mystery just broke it down to the sub atomic level and by far his is the best method for systematically doing bar/club/cold approaches. He never said how to FIND THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE, NEVER TALKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.............just how to speed seduce someone.

Dude.........U NEED TO ACTUALLY READ RESEARCH BEFORE YOU START DISSING.

DO U HAVE 2 BOOKS PUBLISHED, WERE YOU MENTIONED IN THE BOOK THE GAME, HAVE YOU WRITTEN ARTICLES IN MAJOR MAGAZINES, DO U HAVE YOUR OWN SHOW, HAVE U BANGED PLAYBOY MODELS..............ya mystery is a big fat loser and no way does his stuff work...........PFFT........ALEX SEND THIS GUY A CLUE.

COD · Sep 25, 2007

AND ONE MORE THING ABOUT DAVID D...........HE ACTUALLY SAID C & F TRIGGER THE ATTRACTION PROCESS. IF YOU ARE GOING TO MIS-QUOTE SOMEONE DONT POST IT ON HERE.

DAVID D ACTUALLY HAS A PROGRAM CALLED ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE.

DONT BE HATIN cause these guys have it down..........there has to be some default settings that are universal.

Its eaSy to sit infront of your computer, spew some stuff from your psych class but its quite another to GO OUT AND TRY THIS STUFF OUT.

SO WHAT.......big whoop u disagree about the true definition of attraction............EVEN IF YOU got it down......when all is said and done.......in the field, in front of a hot chic with her hot friend......it comes down to your polished percieved confidence.

Sustaining a relationship...........heck we still dont know the answer to that.....thats why divorce is so high. These guys are just opening a few doors to speed seduction, ya its not going to work on every single chic in every single situation.

For now its the system til we offer a better one.

ketostix · Sep 25, 2007

FOR ONE THING.........ITS BUILD COMFORT........never did he say build attraction mr. smarty pants. Mystery agrees that attraction is not a choice and if you truly read any of his books other than watching vh1 presentation you would have already knew this.

What?? Everyone knows in the MM first there's an attraction phase where he tells you to neg, DHV, act disinterested, etc. to build attraction. Just about every MM follower says that and believes that causes attraction. Then after attraction phase you then go into comfort-basically act "normal".

DAVID D ACTUALLY HAS A PROGRAM CALLED ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE.

He does say attraction is not a choice but then he explains what causes attraction, erroneously in my opinion.

DONT BE HATIN cause these guys have it down..........there has to be some default settings that are universal.

It's not hating, it called disagreeing. There maybe be some universals but that doesn't mean they know what they are.

Its eaSy to sit infront of your computer, spew some stuff from your psych class but its quite another to GO OUT AND TRY THIS STUFF OUT.

Why do you assume someone hasn't? I've tried it out many times. I could never ever get negs to work, and neither could anyone else I know, and a few other MM suggestions. I had to drop them and do different things.

SO WHAT.......big whoop u disagree about the true definition of attraction............EVEN IF YOU got it down......when all is said and done.......in the field, in front of a hot chic with her hot friend......it comes down to your polished percieved confidence.

Well if the true definition of attraction isn't confidence, then you're wrong.

Sustaining a relationship...........heck we still dont know the answer to that.....thats why divorce is so high. These guys are just opening a few doors to speed seduction, ya its not going to work on every single chic in every single situation.

Sustaining? We claimed it won't even create a relationship.

For now its the system til we offer a better one.

There's already many other systems. How are you going to find a better one when you're totally closed to critique this one?

I have to respectively say your reply was mostly nonsense.

Dongfu · Sep 25, 2007

Whoa there. . . you're getting a little too excited.

COD said:
FOR ONE THING.........ITS BUILD COMFORT........never did he say build attraction mr. smarty pants.

Okay, but the techniques he teaches are to create attraction, whether he says it or not.

COD said:
Mystery agrees that attraction is not a choice and if you truly read any of his books other than watching vh1 presentation you would have already knew this.

Read the book, never watched the show. Didnt memorize it, as you may have. And I gave that disclaimer n the begining of the post.

COD said:
Dude.........U NEED TO ACTUALLY READ RESEARCH BEFORE YOU START DISSING.

I'm not dissing. I'm questioning and discussing.

COD said:
DO U HAVE 2 BOOKS PUBLISHED, WERE YOU MENTIONED IN THE BOOK THE GAME, HAVE YOU WRITTEN ARTICLES IN MAJOR MAGAZINES, DO U HAVE YOUR OWN SHOW, HAVE U BANGED PLAYBOY MODELS..............ya mystery is a big fat loser and no way does his stuff work...........PFFT........ALEX SEND THIS GUY A CLUE.

Never said Mystery is a loser. I happen to think he's kinda funny.

You're a little irrational

BTW, how old are you. Otherwise I cant really give any credit to what you say

ketostix · Sep 25, 2007

Well I believe attraction is mostly visual for women too. I'm not saying it's just based on physical looks but it's mosty appearance. Not many guys want to accept that belief.

I think men have more criteria than just hotness and probably as much criteria for mate selection as women do, probably more objective criteria too. Most men just don't have as many options as women do. I do think youth and hotness is the most important criteria for men though, especially if he is just looking for sex :woo: .

Maxtro · Sep 25, 2007

As ketostix said attraction is visual for women as well. It's just that with most women they don't want to bang any and every hot guy they see. What matters most to women is what the guy says and does. A mans words and actions can increase her sexual desire for him or it can do the opposite and kill all interest in him.

One thing that I"ve noticed from these methods is that none of them seem to focus on making you a "keeper" in her eyes. A one night stand is fine and all, but I really doubt it compares to banging her everyday till you get tired of her.

Dongfu · Sep 25, 2007

^^^Nice job guys

I have an update. I consulted. . . no . . .no . . . dont say it . . a woooooommmmaaaannnn . . . . ahh!!!!!!!!!:crackup:

But, seriously, this was my friends wife who is very straight forward, who I personally trust. And I think she makes a valid point.

She say's, yes, attraction usually is an instantaneous phenomenon. But, as you guys mention ^^^, it can be increased or ruined by what you say, how you act, etc. obviously.

But, she did say that because she is an intellectual person, she gets more attracted as she speaks with the guy, if he says the right things.

So, she say's that an average looking guy, with enough intellegence, wit, etc. can build attraction with a certain type of woman.

again proving that there are no set standards, therefore techniques of any kind work on a percentage basis.

I think that is fair.

ketostix · Sep 25, 2007

Not to mention that when you have attraction you have a bigger margin of error or fudge factor to work with, both ways in what all you can get away with and amplify attraction and not decrease it.

So I think we've come to these conclusion:

Attraction is mostly visual and happens fast. If it's not there you can't create it simply with word choices.

You can amplify it or decreases it with your choice of words, actions and mannerisms.

In fact, even if you have attraction men usually have to converse with the girl in a manner that amplifies it and capitalizes on it.

If you have attraction it's easier to amplify it and fortunately not as easy to decrease it.

Yep :yes: . Now the question is how does a guy best do all that

lol.

Maxtro · Sep 25, 2007

Oh oh! I know this one. I have lots of knowledge and experience in decreasing a womens attraction.

Wait...that wasn't what you were looking for?

Dongfu · Oct 8, 2007

I was reflecting on how i often itentionally dont build attraction. Sometimes it works better to approach a girl with the intention of "we seem like we could be friends" vibe. I dont let on that i'm attracted to her, even though I do send small ioi's.

WHat this does is lower all of her berriers, so when you do finally decide to move in, it is unexpected, and she is less gaurded.

Mad Manic · Oct 8, 2007

You don't need physical attraction from the off to pick up a girl in theory (and to an extent reality) but it is extremely hard to do so unless you have fantastic game and can attract her through other avenues. In general, it's about amplifying attraction since it's very unlikely to score with a girl who has no attraction to you from the offset.

That is why looks/appearance/style is important no matter what, because it gets your foot into (or well into) the door before and during gaming. I don't think anybody has ever seriously denied this. People who deny it are usually giving hope to the hopeless or one of those people themselves. Excuses not to dress well, groom well, get a good body, etc.

ChrizZ · Oct 8, 2007

95% of guys on this site have no idea what TMM and the M3 model is including the original poster.

The only downfall is that it destroys your inner game...

Snow Plowman · Oct 9, 2007

Wow...most you guys sound like true blue KBJS!!!

You guys are talking about basic PU stuff and misreading the WHOLE thing.

First in foremost I want to say I do not follow MM but I know it pretty deeply as I was interested in the M3 model. First of all you should know MYSTERY himself says "The Game is played in Comfort" and I'll tell you why in a minute.

Basically in the community there are THREE different forms of attraction. (God next time I'll have you guys look around for this stuff on your own instead of posting it)

1. Buying Temperature Game - This is what was very infamous back in the day, if you read any of the guru's archives. Attraction Techniques basically ups Buying Temperature. Buying Temperature is basically her emotional state and her not being logical anymore. (I'm not going any deeper) Basically the chick will be attracted because your putting her in state but as soon as you leave all of the attraction will be gone, or if someone blew you out then the attraction would transfer to the other guy.

2. Physical Attraction - This is when a chick is actually attracted to a guy based on his looks. This attraction can also happen if a high value guy touches her as it amps up attraction.

3. High Value Attraction - This is based on "who you are" that causes attraction, ultimately being HIGH VALUE. As she sees your personality she chooses that she likes you and you can then fuk her.

ATTRACTION is caused by a person being HIGH VALUE!!!!!!

This is why "ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE" if your high value you will have a chick attracted REGARDLESS HOW YOU LOOK.

So to just drop some of the misconceptions, DHVs is basically going towards High Value Attraction because of the subtle stuff in the story that makes her interested in you. Other techniques gets the chick attracted based off her BT, example C&F.

Jealousy plotlines and social proof works because it shows you are HIGH VALUE, and how do chick become attracted? off of high value dudes.

This is as far as I'm explaining it because I don't even want to go deep into this as it will get too long. Bottomline is stop trying to disect MM, it has its pitfalls but most of it is far from what you guys are talking about.

Also if some of you guys don't know sex is also a source of validation for both men and women. Chicks want validation from high value guys and so having sex with the guy is basically getitng the guys acceptance and validation. You can see this if you fully give everything to the chick, example grinding all night. You give all the validation then she'll leave because you already validated her.

zerocelcius · Oct 9, 2007

Mystery did too say build attraction...

Maybe you should read his book instead of style's book...

I don't know! But I know it is in Mystery's book. And is one of the most important parts. He talks about 'triggering the keys.'

zerocelcius · Oct 9, 2007

Dongfu said:
Stemming from my post about validating the MM, I came across this subject of creating attraction.

I got to thinking, "is this possible or realistic."

Hi, I'm 31 . . . and here is my thoughts jk-lol

Let's look at it the simplest way. When you meet a girl, does she have to build attraction before you are interested in her? Not me.

Based on her appearence, overall vibe, and the sound of her voice, the way she moves her eyes, how she introduces herself, what she says, how she moves . . .

all of these things I experience INSTANTLY, not after 10 minutes of her running game on me.

There are both pretty and not so pretty women who I would not sleep with no matter what they say or do. If I dont feel it, I dont feel it.

To me, attraction is like two magnets, you either cant keep them appart, or you cant push them together, depending on the orientation.

So I personally have doubts about the idea of 'building attracting'

You can interest her, you can tease her, you can make her laugh, you can neg her, but I feel she will decide whether or not she is attracted to you the moment you meet.

Further more, I feel that the games women play, like acting uninterested, and blocking your efforts before succumbing, give to the illusion that you were building attraction. Just because it took you a while to get confirmation of interest, doesnt mean it wasnt there from the beginning. Women can hide it well, to test you.

A word on "jealousy plot lines" and "hired guns," as advocated by Mystery.

These are methods that appeal to her ego and superficial reasoning. She may show interest in you when using these techniques, but it is not because she is necessarily attracted to "you". She is attracted to the "Idea" of winning you, or getting you away from the b!tch she doesnt like etc.

Relationships that start under this premise go no where. You may bang her a couple times, but it wont be that great, because there was no real intense attraction, which is what results in great sex.

Dong has spoken . . .

What do you guys think?

DONG you’re a funny man and I appreciate the topics you bring up and your points of view...

BUT

I truly think that you are mistaken in comparing a guy’s attraction with women's attraction.

Men are visual and almost non selective by nature.
Women are emotional and extremely selective by nature.

Back in the cave days men hit girls over the head, dragged them to the cave, and had their way.

Woman than had to survive with a child and no man. In evolution they learned that by attracting the guys that were more loyal they no longer had to survive without a man.

Evolution has forged today’s woman into the most extremely selective creature on earth. I don't think there is a more selective species of animal out there. If there were I think you would be hard pressed to find them.

Men think attractive is "doable" but woman have an internal check list that they need to run through.

Not to say that woman don't forgo that survival trait and just get her rocks off, but she will almost never stay with that guy (one night stand).

SO comparing men's attraction with women's attraction is like comparing American football with Soccer/football. Yes they both are a sport and there is a goal at each end, but other than that they are completely different.

wayword · Oct 9, 2007

Well, Mystery is 6'5", decent-looking and peacocks. So, that's his attractiveness right there.

Bvbidd · Oct 9, 2007

If Mystery is decent looking I must be god.

Mad Manic · Oct 9, 2007

Snow Plowman said:
Wow...most you guys sound like true blue KBJS!!!

You guys are talking about basic PU stuff and misreading the WHOLE thing.

First in foremost I want to say I do not follow MM but I know it pretty deeply as I was interested in the M3 model. First of all you should know MYSTERY himself says "The Game is played in Comfort" and I'll tell you why in a minute.

Basically in the community there are THREE different forms of attraction. (God next time I'll have you guys look around for this stuff on your own instead of posting it)

1. Buying Temperature Game - This is what was very infamous back in the day, if you read any of the guru's archives. Attraction Techniques basically ups Buying Temperature. Buying Temperature is basically her emotional state and her not being logical anymore. (I'm not going any deeper) Basically the chick will be attracted because your putting her in state but as soon as you leave all of the attraction will be gone, or if someone blew you out then the attraction would transfer to the other guy.

2. Physical Attraction - This is when a chick is actually attracted to a guy based on his looks. This attraction can also happen if a high value guy touches her as it amps up attraction.

3. High Value Attraction - This is based on "who you are" that causes attraction, ultimately being HIGH VALUE. As she sees your personality she chooses that she likes you and you can then fuk her.

ATTRACTION is caused by a person being HIGH VALUE!!!!!!

This is why "ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE" if your high value you will have a chick attracted REGARDLESS HOW YOU LOOK.

So to just drop some of the misconceptions, DHVs is basically going towards High Value Attraction because of the subtle stuff in the story that makes her interested in you. Other techniques gets the chick attracted based off her BT, example C&F.

Jealousy plotlines and social proof works because it shows you are HIGH VALUE, and how do chick become attracted? off of high value dudes.

This is as far as I'm explaining it because I don't even want to go deep into this as it will get too long. Bottomline is stop trying to disect MM, it has its pitfalls but most of it is far from what you guys are talking about.

Also if some of you guys don't know sex is also a source of validation for both men and women. Chicks want validation from high value guys and so having sex with the guy is basically getitng the guys acceptance and validation. You can see this if you fully give everything to the chick, example grinding all night. You give all the validation then she'll leave because you already validated her.

Ok, firstly if anything you need to use the net a lot to gain info regarding seduction so since you know a lot ... not that I'm knocking it, it's good to know this stuff and 99.9% of us have plenty of room in improving with women.

Secondly, I agree and as I said, you can gain attraction through other avenues but it's a lot harder to do so without initial attraction. It requires fantastic game. If you have no attraction from the off then you're gonna have to show a lot of high value and be good with bumping up BT to get her interested. A funny joke/story and a bit of touching won't cut it.

From experience, I've had attraction from the off and even from there it isn't easy with HB's 7-10s. You're still gonna need great game when competing with other guys who hit on her and know her and have x, y, z as well.

Building Attraction . . . a gaping hole in the Mystery Method???

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