Some reasons why Men should NOT ask....

...For a Relationship.


First off, as Men we should generally be genuinely busy taking care of our lives and working towards our goals, ambitions, and desires.

Our time, effort, and love is valueable. We must look at ourselves as being "The Prize" and being the "Catch", and US being our Number One Priority.

We are not time wasters,and we should not be wasting our time with people, places, or things that do.\As a rule, desperate, and needy AFCs literally JUMP at the chance of "exclusivity" with a woman.
Why?
Because they have no other OPTIONS!!!!Desperate for Sex, desperate for companionship, and desperate for VALIDATION, the AFC will throw hhis sorry a$$ self at her feet just to have some semblance of "life" When all this time he's been ignoring his own Self, his true masculinty, and Destiny.


Should you be in a situation where you're interested in a lady,and want to move things further along and be mutually exclusive...

...you should never be the first to ask for it.

Why?

First thing.

"Asking" a woman (even if you "love" her) for her exclusivity shifts power to her.
You are giving her the power of the decision over you.
You run the risk of looking needy, and/or desperate.
Being perceived by a woman as "not having any other options" is very, very UNSexy to her.
You actually run the risk of lowering Attraction, and thusly, Value!
This is not a high value move.
Why?
Because if you were High Value, you would NOT be the one asking to be "taken off the market."
The Woman must be left to decide if she will fight other women to "take you off the market" and be hers, and hers alone.
A woman wants to value that which she has fought for. She values that which she almost covets, and perceives as being lusted after by other women.
Offer yourself FIRST, and you turn off her naturally occuring Competition switch. You give her NO Challenge. There is NOTHING for her to "work" for. Nothing she will find valueable.

Thus, YOU lower attraction, and Value for yourself.

For, after all, if you are such a Masculine man, a Prince Charming even, wouldn't she know that you have other options? And she better be worthy of your very valueable TIME???!

Remember, let's go back to what Real Masculine Men do...

.....they are BUSY. Busy working on their life, their hobbies, passions, and pursuits. They want to Unite Dream and Day!
A woman wants to feel worthy of that.
Offer yourself first, and you lose that appeal.
She may think "If he's so valueable, why does he seem so needy? Is he desperate? Doesn't he have other women chasing him? OMG, there must be something wrong with him. I think I made a mistake. I'm pulling back."


A woman values that which she has to work for.
OF what value are you?
Well, if you ask for her exclusivity FIRST, you communicate neediness and desperation. That's NOT High Value, is it, fellas?
You also remove her competetive switch altogether, you have removed a Challenge for her.
You decrease Value for yourself.
You take yourself "off themarket" rather than she deciding.
By doing so, you make a decision for her, thus, NEVER REALLY FINDING OUT IF SHE WAS THAT INTO YOU!

You didn't know that this is a Qualifying tactic, did you?

If the woman puts her foot down and says "I want you for myself!!" then you KNOW that she truly wants you.
If you decide FOR HER, she may agree, but you're putting pressure on her to make a decision which she may not have decided otherwise.
Do you want a woman that truly wants to be with you? And will fight off other women, etc to keep you?
Or are you going to just Jump the Gun (big AFC mistake is to not be patient and have self control) and look so desperate to have HER (you are NO LONGER THE "PRIZE", by doing this, you have officially proclaimed that SHE is the "prize" to be won) that you're going to throw yourself at her feet and mercy??
Rememebr that thing I told you about MEN being "the Prize": and being "busy" living their DREAMS???
Yeah, well. You're not going to come off like that if you offer yourself FIRST.


Let her fight for you.
If she does, then she''s worthy.
IF she doesn't, you NEXT her.
IF you coerce her, or demand from her, then you will never know if she truly felt it in her heart. Thus, youll never know her true agenda, and her conviction and commitment to the relationship.


Discuss.

i agree, but what if you just desperate for head...like i am...

blackbelt2k said:

i agree, but what if you just desperate for head...like i am...

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Then ask for head & NOT a relationship?

CF9 said:

Then ask for head & NOT a relationship?

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that usually doesn't go over too well, lol

blackbelt2k said:

that usually doesn't go over too well, lol

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If you try to deceive her into thinking you want a relationship when all you want is head, then it will end badly. You don't have to come right out and ask for it verbally, but don't misrepresent your intentions.

squirrels said:

If you try to deceive her into thinking you want a relationship when all you want is head, then it will end badly. You don't have to come right out and ask for it verbally, but don't misrepresent your intentions.

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That's what I would say too. Gaming is one thing, but misrepresenting (read: flat-out lying) isn't the way to go, at least for me. Dropping the L-word for sex is lame, IMO. If the interest is there, why not make a sexual advance & see if she goes for it?

What happens if she's waiting for you to show you want a relationship, she's too shy to ask, or is afraid of seeming like the needy, clingy one? Then you're both screwed.

Don't over intellectualise everything. I daresay if you actually get to the stage where you want a relationship with a girl, you'll have to wind down the rehearsed routines at some point and go with your gut instinct instead. If a guy I'm into enough that I want a relationship with him asks me if we should take that step, I am not suddenly going to go "Ew, WTF? Like, OMG, he must not have any better options than me, so he's going to be all obsessive and stuff. Next!"

Girls don't want to have to constantly fight and work just to get anywhere. Playing hard to get pisses us off too, for the very same reasons that men get sick of girls doing it. If we have to put in a heap of effort all the time and still never end up making any progress, eventually we're going to give up. It'll backfire on you - and not because she isn't "worthy", but because you just made it too damn hard. Not to mention that any girl with self-esteem is not going to want to be with man who always seems like he's just around until he can "do better".

Vixen, you may be assuming that all this time the Man is not doing everything he can to give what the woman needs and what the relationship needs. But this is not the case.You are also assuming waiting for your confirmation, as US "playing Hard to Get." This is totally different. Waiting for her to make up her own damn mind, and playing hard to get are two very, very different thigns.

The context of this notion is that the man has finally found the one for him, and is following through on his end of the bargain. He is simply not throwing himself at her feet. This should not be thought of as undesireable.
A woman knows. A woman has to decide. The man simply waits for her to realize HE's the one for her.
If he jumps the gun, she may not go "Ewwww." but is he now a Challenge?
Where's the reward for her?
What has she done for him? What has SHE done to earn HIM?
How has she validated his decisions?
IS she truly, be honest here, Vixen, is she truly NOW VALUING HIM??? The Man, the Masculine man, whom you desire and drives you crazy...you want HIM to say "Let's go steady."?? NO, my dear. The woman knows he is in demand, and she should display her desire for his attention, and exclusivity
Remember, the context is NOT asking her hand in Marriage, it is simply going to the next step. And at this stage, we have established that each partner has declared "their Love" for each other.
You have to understand, these are not "games" per se, this is a necessary approach to making sure the woman is interested, and worth the man's interest. We do this to avoid the never ending "tests" and hoops , and Mind Games, you often play with. And Im sorry, but many Men have recognized that we SHOULD VALUE our health, well being, emotional health, and Peace of Mind. By avoiding "games" and using a proper approach, the Men can now be in charge of their Love life, and not HAVE TO SUCCUMB to whatever the whims and moods the woman just "feels' like demonstrating at any given time of the day.
I'm sorry if this post offends your Ego, Vixen. This is advice used for men to protect themselves from low quality women, with low interest. A mistake that has killed the notion of romance, marriage, and everlasting true love.
We must protect outrselves from women with hidden agendas, ,manipulative ideals, and unLady like behaviors.

But dare I say it, Men are at a point where there is little choice in the matter any more.
Either we men MAN UP, and play the "game" you have created for us to navigate, or the other choice....which is unacceptable to most men.

Vixen, we intellectualize everything because it is important for men, many of whom have never been taught this, basically we learn through trial and error, in a very hard, and bitter manner sometimes, to FIND SUCCESS and true LOVE that WE DESERVE. After all, if we followed your advice, ALL Men would have to do is "Hey woman, I want you. Now let's go have some sex.
Right?

Yeah, tell me the last time that worked with you.

Remember, the notion is counterintuituive.
In that, we have learned, from so many mistakes, that WE must look at OURSELVES as the "Prize" and the "Catch". Because, for so long, women have not been attracted to the chump who worships the woman and places her on the proverbial (romance killing) Pedastle.
So,now, that men are finally learning, from the views and actions expressed by women, to VALUE THEMSELVES, and look at it from the angle that Women should Qualify for OUR Attention, this seems unpleasant, and overly intellectual.
I'm sorry, Vixen.
But welcome to the new Man, my dear.


You have chosen the path FOR US. Now we follow that Path, and now are in the process of OWNING it, and creating new roads for success for Men.
We can NO LONGER find true love, loyalty, and honor by WORSHIPPING you.In fact, we NEVER had your true LOVE in the first place.
You have MADE IT LOUD AND CLEAR, my dear.

This is our new reality.
We hear you, ladies. We understand now.



By the way, please feel free to discourse the matter with myself, or others here.
You should not be feeling any animosity.Cartainly none from myself.
So I encourage you to speak your mind in this post if you wish.
But you, as others will, benefit from having an open mind, and recognizing the cold, hard truth of these matters.

Amazing post mate, well said. And like Interceptor said, this way of thinking and of being has been 'Forced' on us, by trial and error proving to us, men, that you women want a strong, selfish(in a good way) man, who will make sure he is the Prize man, tha you can be proud to be with, and knows for certain that she has a great catch.

Dj Bendy

LOL I don't even understand why somebody would want an exclusive relationship. That just means that she would be the only girl that I can be with. I haven't lived enough to just stick with one girl.

A bump for this post. Very well written!

Interceptor said:

You have to understand, these are not "games" per se, this is a necessary approach to making sure the woman is interested, and worth the man's interest. We do this to avoid the never ending "tests" and hoops , and Mind Games, you often play with. By avoiding "games" and using a proper approach, the Men can now be in charge of their Love life, and not HAVE TO SUCCUMB to whatever the whims and moods the woman just "feels' like demonstrating at any given time of the day. This is advice used for men to protect themselves from low quality women, with low interest. We must protect outrselves from women with hidden agendas, ,manipulative ideals, and unLady like behaviors.
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Interceptor, you mean to dump a girl if she´s playing games and testing you all the time? That means she has Low interest leve right? How can we protect ourselves, besides the "don´t ask her first"? HOW CAN WE AVOID HER GAMES?

BP, youre asking a question that you need to answer yourself, man.

Here's the most pivotal thing....

Often, our DESIRE for a woman is confusing.

We love her body Her eyes. Her smell. Her warmth. Her soft skin.
Her laugh and smile.

We feel strongly, I mean strong Sexual desire for this woman.

But this woman realizes it..

She feels your desire.

And perhaps , deep inside there is a little bit of a woman who likes the 'cat and mouse'.

Or, she wants to keep her 'power'. And that means keep her power, namely her sexual power and desireability over YOU.

How do we break that spell? That sweet , alluring spell of her sexuality lingering over our heads??


We need to take a break..step back...and analyze what is our driving desire?
What is our TRUE motivation to 'get' this woman?


Sex?
Companionship?
someone to do our laundry?

We , as Men, must ASSESS these crucial moments in REAL TIME.


Are we going to freak out if we 'lose her'?
See, as the emotional involvement and attachment get stronger, so do the 'stakes'.
Men can get real vulnerable feeling, especially when imminent sex is involved.

"OMG, I cant jeopardize this!! I cant mess up!! I need her bad!! I cannot mess this up! Or Ill lose her!! I cant live with that!!"

This is a wrong state of mind.
Sex has this aura of high pressure , high stakes to it.
And many men cannot handle this pressure.


What am I leading to?


Dont place her sex as YOUR Top Priority.



For most women, their sexuality is their KEY 'selling' point.
We cant blame them. Many of them never cultivated compelling interesting personalities or high character. So they often Default into primal female behavior.

So what do they usually do?

They use Sex as their negotiating device
They barter and bargain with sex.

If Sex is YOUR number ONE priority, dont you think if she witholds it or plays around in delaying it she will have some power , some control over you?

You can bet she is counting on it.

"All Men are Dogs". Right?

The vast majority of women are convinced that ALL men will have sex with ANY woman at the drop of a hat.
That men have NO criteria and NO STANDARDS expected from their women

This is what many truly believe.
So they use it as a means to control you and conform to their vision of the relationship, their frame essentially,. They uise sex to get what they want from you. And if youre a good doggy you will get rewareded once in a while.

Are ALL women EXACTLY like this?

NO!!
hardly, actually.

But women are women, thus, have the same biological chemistry and basic psyches.

Women who overcome these things and dont want to compete with you and fight power struggles with you are usually the more desireable women anyway, these are High Class Ladies, and they are not common.
But they will not play around with you in a crude manner. They may be playful actually, but they mean business if they see that you arent really living up to your masculine potential, a common notion in ALL women.


So what to do?

Dont place her Sex as your Top Priority.

If Sex is her magic bullet to use against you, dont make it your weakness.
Dont be a slave to your desires.

And be logical and rational in the heat of the moment, why?
Becasue of the Self mastery and discipline you exhibit as an in control dominant Masculine man.

Dont be a slave to your desire. Recgonize your MOTIVATION for your desire.


This way , whatever 'game' she plays, does not have such a DEEP effect on you, or your Self Esteem, or Morale

You do not place her Validation or sex as your top priority, thus, she has nothing to grab onto and control.

She will try to get to you through your Ego, but if youre not a slave to your Ego, she cant get you there either.
So she runs out of options.
And if she is really attracted to you, she realizes "Holy sh*t, I cant control him or dominate him. He MUST be a REAL MAN! I cant believe it!"
The attraction ususally increases at this point.



Her: "Ill call you later."

You; "Great."

Two or three days pass.

Her; "Why havent you called me?":cuss:

You; "Oh because like you said you were going to call. I figured you a woman of your word.So ..I waited. That WAS the arrangement, remeber?"


Bascially, you become impeccable in your discipline. Your word is bond. And you are not at the mercy of her moods.

Which is what SHE HAS WANTED ALL THIS TIME!

She wants to know you have a life outside of her.

She wants to know she can go for days without you blowing up her phone.

Bascially, place something ELSE besides SEX as your number one Priority that you WANT from her.

Do you want more emotional intimacy?
Do you want her to buy you little gifts of affection? Give you massages?
Be more nurturing?
Support you in certain projects or hobbies?

Sex wil be there anyway.
In all these instances.

But what about companionship?
Loyalty?

How thoughtful is she? Will she remember your birthday? Your favorite brand of Whey Protein? What kind of deodorant you wear?

Will she be compliant and give you those types of things?

See, THOSE are what REAL good women partners will do for you.

These women are true "queens" and "Goddesses". Truly femenine and radiant, and give you more than just some sex, and whats more, they usually wont use it against you.


They take care of their Men.
They admire you for WHO you are.
And they have personality and a compelling life to attract you, not just their sex.

So set your standards HIGHER. Set your Expectations of good behavior from a woman higher than ......just sex.


That way, you STILL get sex, but you also get the best kind of femenine nurturing behavior too. Because you wont settle for less. You becomeimpeccable in your regard and you stick to your standards. Why?
Because you are not a SLAVE to your desire

So a woman can never dominate you with sex, or control you with it.



A man of high character will attract a Woman of High Character. And this woman means business, she does NOT play games with you.

Man, this knowledge you share is top notch!!

See Fingers post for more wisdom:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1377463#post1377463

This post is one of the best I've read on sosuave. If you could fix your grammar mistakes in your posts, you'd be one of the best posters on this board.

From AntiDump

You should be free as a bird, flapping around, singing, full of joy with life. Women want to ****** the bird and throw it in a cage (cage = committment). When birds try to fly into the cage, wouldn't you think something is wrong with that bird? After all, who wants a bird that WANTS to be in the cage? No, women want the birds that are FREE, WILD, and BEAUTIFUL. They want A GOOD CATCH. Good Catches do not fly into cages. Only wounded or needy birds do.

That was a great post. What I get from it is how important self-control, and self-discipline are in your day to day life. Everything you do--not just women.

I struggle with this, procrastination, not taking care of myself like I should, not giving myself a chance here and there. It's a challenge to get from that to a more positive lifestyle, but you don't do it without self-control.

So, if you have cultivated this ability to control yourself in your day to day life (your health, making time for passions, making sure your affairs are in order, managing your time) I wonder if this actually would make you more likely to have self-control, with women.

I mean if you've battled your own fears and temptations and bad habits in other areas and have gotten them under some control--perhaps that strength carries with you to the world of women.

Interceptor said:

"All Men are Dogs". Right?

The vast majority of women are convinced that ALL men will have sex with ANY woman at the drop of a hat.
That men have NO criteria and NO STANDARDS expected from their women

This is what many truly believe.
So they use it as a means to control you and conform to their vision of the relationship, their frame essentially,. They uise sex to get what they want from you. And if youre a good doggy you will get rewareded once in a while.

Click to expand...

Lol thats a classic!

Interceptor said:

This way , whatever 'game' she plays, does not have such a DEEP effect on you, or your Self Esteem, or Morale

You do not place her Validation or sex as your top priority, thus, she has nothing to grab onto and control.

She will try to get to you through your Ego, but if youre not a slave to your Ego, she cant get you there either.
So she runs out of options.
And if she is really attracted to you, she realizes "Holy sh*t, I cant control him or dominate him. He MUST be a REAL MAN! I cant believe it!"
The attraction ususally increases at this point.

Click to expand...

Very true. Its a trap most men fall into.

awesome interceptor. Bump

MacAvoy said:

From AntiDump

You should be free as a bird, flapping around, singing, full of joy with life. Women want to ****** the bird and throw it in a cage (cage = committment). When birds try to fly into the cage, wouldn't you think something is wrong with that bird? After all, who wants a bird that WANTS to be in the cage? No, women want the birds that are FREE, WILD, and BEAUTIFUL. They want A GOOD CATCH. Good Catches do not fly into cages. Only wounded or needy birds do.

Click to expand...

This is great, but the trick is helping women understand that if they try to get you into a relationship, the magic of the moment will be gone. I have mastered this art, as I am the kind of man women want to be in a relationship with, so I have a lot of practice keeping out of them.

Interceptor, this subject has been on my mind lately. I will soon make a post explaining why being in a relationship, or getting married is the biggest AFC move a guy can make. I have some overlooked incite on this subject that will be of value.

The art of escaping the relationship trap is worthy of much more attention than it is getting. Thanks for the contribution.