The Self-Righteous AFC

I have several friends, all of whom are now trapped in "dead end" marriages, who fit the classic married AFC profile in their personalities. One commonality that I've just come to realize recently which I noticed among all of them while they were single, was a very over-confident sense of self-righteousness once they had transitioned from being the desperate, lonely AFC to having a girlfriend and finally "getting some" sex.

I'm contemplating this because one friend I have is about to join the ranks of these other men who went from desperate, to marrying their single mommie girlfriends. In their single lives all of these guys bought into the standard AFC mythology that most DJs did at one time, so of course preaching anything counter to the Nice Guy, Savior Schema, do-everything-to-identify-with-the-girl mentality was met with ridicule and condemnation, or at the very least rationalized away as 1950s caveman thinking. Most of this I'm prepared for, and now in hindsight all of these guys agree with everything I'd suggested back when they were single, however, all of them went through a self-righteous phase when they had finally scored with a much less than their standard woman.

You see, when an AFC clings to the mental schemas that make up an AFC mindset it requires a constant need for affirmation and reinforcement, particularly in light of their glaring lack of verifiable success with women while clinging to, and behaving in accordance with the mindset. I forget who's signature it was, but to put it best, AFCs are a bunch of crabs in a barrel - once one get to the top to climb out another drags him back in. The AFC needs other AFCs to affirm his blatantly obvious lack of success. He needs other AFCs to tell him, "don't worry just be yourself" or "she's just not a quality woman because she can't see how great a guy you are."

So when an AFC finally does get a second date and then finally does get laid it becomes the ultimate validation for his mindset. "See, you just have to be a nice guy and the right ONE really does come along." This is when the self-righteous phase begins and he can begin telling his DJ/PUA friends that he's "getting some" now without all the Positive Masculinity claptrap. In actuality he rationalizes away all of the conditions that lead up to him getting the girlfriend and the fundamental flaw that he's settling for a woman "who'd fukk him", but this doesn't stop him from claiming a moral highground. His long wait is over and he's finally hit paydirt.

One of the interesting things that I've noticed (about myself) after becoming *aware* is seeing how I've shifted my responses w/r to AFC friends seeking validation. First off, once distanced from the mindset, picking up on the perceived need for validation is quite easy. And since it's so easy to spot now, its a lot easier to respond.

For example, a really good friend who would be your textbook example of a serial monogamist, is continually seeking validation for his current target. And each discussion is filled with irony such as "She's got kids and her arse is a bit big BUT she's totally into me"...blah, blah, blah. Of course he's waiting for some type of approval yet he ain't gonna hear it from me.

Nowadays I usually just let whoever it is keep talking. Maybe nod or "um hum, uh ha" a few times. Eventually they'll run out of rationalizations/justifications and wonder about the silence. At that point they tend to be more receptive (mainly because unlike everyone else, I haven't agreed with anything to this point). Then I'll respond just once and then try change the topic right afterwards. Maybe something like "that's cool, looks like you might of found the one. Oh I amost forgot, when are we ... <<insert fun non-relationship guy sh!t here >>"

Actually (and it's been said here before several times) guys who are in AFC mode listen, respond and act very much like women -> covertly, indirectly and emotionally. Ironically, it would seem the best way to reach them is to treat them like women.

Of course a serious b!tch slap is probably the best medicine yet with AFC disease in full on mode, it ususally isn't received and respected until well after he finds out his *soulmate* flew across the country, crawled through barbed wire, wildly screwed her married guy FB and then hid in his closest until the wifey found her

Okay, that was a bit off topic as you weren't asking for advice on how to *nudge* your friends. However, your statements did get me to thinking about how I hear and advise differently pre-SS versus post-SS.

The AFC by his very nature is self righteous. We can all recognise the AFC when he comes to this forum. His qualities;

1 He is fussy, must have the best perfect woman, the unattainable.

2 He has all the time in the world, he is patient.

3 He rejects any moves by lesser women, on the basis that he is unattainable and only suitable for his "soul mate" (frequently spelt sole mate, whether because they intend to share a shoe business together or perhaps because it is his only one is unclear)

4 The time is never right to make a move, there has to be a precise constellation of the stars with Venus aligning with Uranus or His anus.

5 He squanders his youth, which in some instances, is the only commodity of any value which he possesses, certainly lacking in the intellect department.

6 He hates to try out competing techniques, for fear that they might work, and invalidate his entire life theory.

Their problems are a bad case of cognitive dissonance at work. I believe it was Aristotle who postulated a natural division of men into slaves and free men. These AFCs definitely are the former.

Maybe they just want a women with a hot body before they have sex!

What's wrong with that!

I hate guys who think they are more manly because they **** alot of very average chicks because it does have a practical side-effect. Women don't need to work for it because most men are giving it away to the fat and ugly.

Look at the post I made about that women who wrote the blog and what she says. "I don't know why Bridget Jones counts calories, I just enjoy my food. So what" - she's right, if she can get men looking like that then why is there a need.

All these men slaving away in gyms while the women are staying home and tucking into Ben and Jerry's. And it's the women who are in control when it comes to sex, what a joke. Why, because they are just a little more choosy?

It's not about being self righteous or AFC. I would prefer to have ****ed 10 hot girls in my life than 50 fat ones. Fat women just simply don't do anything for me, that's not me being AFC.

It's the same reason good-women hate sluts, if men can get sex regularly without being in a long term relationship then there is no need for men to get into a relationship or get married. Therefore men are in control when it comes to deciding to get into marriage.

Again I will try to say that this isn't a moral argument because I believe all morality is self serving. It's practical one that has a definate effects on me.

Someone who is AFC is someone who doesn't take the initative and uses games and tricks to get the girls he wants and ultimately isn't in control of their own life. Also just because you see someone as being in a dead-end marriage, doesn't mean they see it that way. They could be happier than you will ever know.

I know a guy who married is high-school girlfriend. They where both each other's first and only sex partner and 12 years on they're both in love and totally happy. She's still gorgeous BTW. I asked him if he ever missed playing the field and he said "sometimes but not that much, not compared to what I have".... Yea, he's the loser.

However I do agree with all that Rollo says. I noticed alot of characteristics I used to have.

However I'm not going to change the "making sure she's hot" one, what's the point if you don't fancy her sexually!

d9930380 said:

Maybe they just want a women with a hot body before they have sex!

What's wrong with that!

I hate guys who think they are more manly because they **** alot of very average chicks because it does have a practical side-effect. Women don't need to work for it because most men are giving it away to the fat and ugly.

Look at the post I made about that women who wrote the blog and what she says. "I don't know why Bridget Jones counts calories, I just enjoy my food. So what" - she's right, if she can get men looking like that then why is there a need.

All these men slaving away in gyms while the women are staying home and tucking into Ben and Jerry's. And it's the women who are in control when it comes to sex, what a joke. Why, because they are just a little more choosy?

It's not about being self righteous or AFC. I would prefer to have ****ed 10 hot girls in my life than 50 fat ones. Fat women just simply don't do anything for me, that's not me being AFC.

It's the same reason good-women hate sluts, if men can get sex regularly without being in a long term relationship then there is no need for men to get into a relationship or get married. Therefore men are in control when it comes to deciding to get into marriage.

Again I will try to say that this isn't a moral argument because I believe all morality is self serving. It's practical one that has a definate effects on me.

Someone who is AFC is someone who doesn't take the initative and uses games and tricks to get the girls he wants and ultimately isn't in control of their own life. Also just because you see someone as being in a dead-end marriage, doesn't mean they see it that way. They could be happier than you will ever know.

I know a guy who married is high-school girlfriend. They where both each other's first and only sex partner and 12 years on they're both in love and totally happy. She's still gorgeous BTW. I asked him if he ever missed playing the field and he said "sometimes but not that much, not compared to what I have".... Yea, he's the loser.

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Great point; I suspect we have several here who claim the 40+ number, and actually think those of us that have had 10 or less envy them. Not only do I not envy them, i'd love to actually see some pics of those 40+. I'd probably want a brown sack on hand before i looked.

I could hit 40+ in under two months.... if i wanted to (ok, maybe 3-4 months and my standards would need to be low to pull that off, still...). Anyway, this isn't a numbers game.

My main point here is this; if someone wants to test AFCness and was making a questionairre, the usefulness of "how many girls have you f*****" would range from extremely limited to not even relevant, IMO. Can I get an amen from brother LMS?

d9930380 said:

I hate guys who think they are more manly because they **** alot of very average chicks because it does have a practical side-effect.

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I have let numerous women go (e.g. have not had sex with them) for issues such as they been obese or they were hot but slept with ANYONE.

I do that as a personal preference. I don't care if a woman is "hot" as I'm attracted to "sexy" women. I like sexy.

That said...if a woman is obese, then that woman lacks self respect. And I personally cannot have sex with an obese woman as I find that disgusting (from my taste).

If a woman sleeps around with anyone (eg. they are sluts), then I don't want that kind of woman either for a number of reasons: they lack self-respect, the chances of they having some sexual VD or sickness are higher, and I don't consider myself part of the bunch.

If a woman SOLELY dates out of her "race" and does that by dating a particular race (e.g. white only dating blacks or vice-versa)...I personally don't feel inspired on dating that woman. Why? Because something is SERIOUSLY wrong when a woman literally throws away her cultural/race identity. It could be "daddy" issues.

If a woman is attracted to ghetto or gangbangers or trailer-trash males...I won't date that woman.


The women I have had success and enjoyed the most are those women that SEVERAL other men want (sexy women)...but I am the ONE that manage to have them. And I will sadly say...that some of them were even married or in relationships. So, I don't necessary disqualify those women, if I have them for JUST sex. By the way, I don't recommend this approach as it can get anyone killed.

Relationship? My standards are even higher.

That does not make me an AFC. It simply make me a Man with high standards. Now...if I had difficulty getting sex...then I would have to lower my standards. That's natural.

My point was never about numbers, but rather attitude. There are AFCs who get regular sex, but never kill the inner AFC (in fact I'd argue a lot of PUAs fall into this category). And then there are AFCs who rarely hook up, but religiously cling to their AFC ego-investment and harbor a mentality of self-righteousness; daily rationalizing their failings with women as a reinforcment of their dubious "higher standards." So when a woman actually enters their lives and has even a semblance of an IL in them it becomes validation for that self-righteousness.

The PUA-AFC on the otherhand may be more successful with his game, but eventually sucumbs to ONEitis and falls into the same trap as the self-righteous AFC.

The point isn't about doing 10 women or 100 women, it's about a mindset. As I was illustrating with my initial post, the men I was describing were AFCs to begin with, all with a "take-what-I-can-get" mentality, but it was more comfortable for them to rationalize their inability to become intimate with any woman - fat, thin, b!tch, nice or otherwise - than to confront their root problem, which is an AFC mentality. And it's just this mentality that distorts their ability to see (and use caution with) individual women for what they truly are. Deprivation creates more AFCs than having multiple options and the experience that comes from it.

rollo>> it strikes me that you're worried about guys on their way into a relationship that they are (delusionally) happy with. my own experience--both personal & with close friends--is that most guys are only open to change with respect to women in a brief window when they hit rock bottom. not on the way in, not on the way out, and not even when their current relationship(s) are in free fall.

in fact, i'd be curious to hear about someone managing to convince a friend to change their approach in any other circumstance.

Sinistar pretty much stole the words from my typing finger.

This is not unlike the self-righteous ascetic who turns his inability to get laid into a virtue. Just that this one finally does get laid. No need to waste time validating or arguing with it, except as an offhand response if they criticize your "morals."

But I still find it ironic that so many guys here criticize women who have freethinking attitudes toward sex. Looks like the flip side of this to me...

Rollo Tomassi said:

My point was never about numbers, but rather attitude. There are AFCs who get regular sex, but never kill the inner AFC (in fact I'd argue a lot of PUAs fall into this category). And then there are AFCs who rarely hook up, but religiously cling to their AFC ego-investment and harbor a mentality of self-righteousness; daily rationalizing their failings with women as a reinforcment of their dubious "higher standards." So when a woman actually enters their lives and has even a semblance of an IL in them it becomes validation for that self-righteousness.

The PUA-AFC on the otherhand may be more successful with his game, but eventually sucumbs to ONEitis and falls into the same trap as the self-righteous AFC.

The point isn't about doing 10 women or 100 women, it's about a mindset. As I was illustrating with my initial post, the men I was describing were AFCs to begin with, all with a "take-what-I-can-get" mentality, but it was more comfortable for them to rationalize their inability to become intimate with any woman - fat, thin, b!tch, nice or otherwise - than to confront their root problem, which is an AFC mentality. And it's just this mentality that distorts their ability to see (and use caution with) individual women for what they truly are. Deprivation creates more AFCs than having multiple options and the experience that comes from it.

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the problem is when the horde of chumps have a mindset they push, and have to consistently reaffirm with others. One chump agrees with another, than chump #4 comes in and chimes in his same old sad story, and the rest of the chumps agree. It makes them look/ feel strong with their ****ty rhetoric. In reality, their mindset is weak and fallible , especially when one such as myself tosses out other angles to the entire game. I get called everything in the book when I discuss my opinion on matters about respecting yourself over a women etc.

But than these people, like the rest of a collectively weak minded society , just does what the person next to them do. You ever sit at a traffic light that turns green, and see two people sitting there only because the person next to them is also stopped?

edit: I really can't say I care that the rest of the sheep have their own self-fulfilling depressing destiny. It is their life, and for the most part they don't affect me. of course I want to help my friends without preaching to them, but in the end, all that matters is what you do. Life, and let live. I don't care the rest of the USA are full of chumps. There are plenty of champs out there you can befriend. Moreover, more chumps= better chances for you.

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi
My point was never about numbers, but rather attitude. There are AFCs who get regular sex, but never kill the inner AFC (in fact I'd argue a lot of PUAs fall into this category). And then there are AFCs who rarely hook up, but religiously cling to their AFC ego-investment and harbor a mentality of self-righteousness; daily rationalizing their failings with women as a reinforcment of their dubious "higher standards." So when a woman actually enters their lives and has even a semblance of an IL in them it becomes validation for that self-righteousness.

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This reminds me of the ending of Braveheart where Mel Gibson says," All men die, but how many men truely live."

The most important thing these guys seem to be missing is a sense of self and identity. The only way to obtain these is through living their lives.

- AA