Odds/numbers in getting to dating/girlfriend

Been doing some math about dating.. you get numbers similar to mines??

Let me break down sarging to dating in the following stages:

-Conversation to number close, assuming she is physically attractive enough for you. You can fail to number close for whatever reason. You might disqualify her, and so that would be an aborted number close.
-Number close to first date. She can flake, or you can just be disinterested before/after talking.
-First date to more than first date. Either one of you can be disinterested after the first date.
-How many "more than first dates" or spinning plates do you want, before you pick a girlfriend?

For example, if a guy needs x conversations to get y number closes to get z first dates, he'll need to initiate xyz conversations to get a first date.

In my world, I have the following:

Pure sarging.. that is, situation where a conversation happens, and if I don't close, I probably won't see her again:

1 out of 5 conversations lead to a number close
1 out of 3 number closes lead to a first date
1 out of 3 first dates lead to more than a first date
I'd want to spin perhaps 2 plates at this point, so I have some selection before pronouncing "girlfriend".

So.. I get 5x3x3x2 = 90 convos with someone physically attrative enough to get to a girlfriend.

Sarging within your social circle.. that is, you see this person repeatedly, like at a club or wherever. You have the opportunity to convo with her more than once before you number close. After number closing, you can casually see her again at the group activity, before asking for a date, if you choose, etc.

1 out of 3 conversations lead to a number close
1 out of 2 number closes lead to a first date
1 out of 2first dates lead to more than a first date
I'd want to spin perhaps 2 plates at this point, so I have some selection before pronouncing "girlfriend".

In this world, I get 3x2x2x2 = 24 convos with someone physically attrative enough to get to a girlfriend.

What's your numbers? Feel free to question the numbers (not flame). I'd like to get better odds. These numbers look a bit harsh, but they also look "realistic".

Im sure they are realistic. Alot of guys on here so badly want to beleive in the DJ fantasy that it will be easy getting lots and lots of women and that if you obtain that "magical bullet proof game", youll be able to get any girl. Total bullsh1t.

The reality is, its not that easy. Its a numbers game. Some women will like you, and some will not. For the average joe, MOST WOMEN will not date him no matter what. But a minority will be open to dating average joe. For the average joe, his odds will not be anything to brag about. There are many reasons behind why this is, but the only thing that matters is that its a numbers game. And the OP has the right idea quantifying his success in a statistical manner. THats realistic, thats getting a no Bullsh1t assessment of your reality so you know what to expect, and know what it will take to get what you want. If you have to approach 100 chicks to get a date, its better to be going on expecting it to be hard then being a dumbass like most people on here who delude themselves into beleiving and expecting to get a girl after the 2nd approach, and then they get depressed and discouraged once they realize its not the case. The guy who goes on expecting it to be hard will keep trucking longer with no discouragement than the delusional idiot brainwashed by sosuave, hell be thinking "my 50th rejection eh, alright, only 50 more to go untill I get the girl!, only half way there ".

As for my odds, thats none of anyones business on here. Ill just have you know Im very successful with women, and thats all you need to know

God_of_getting_layed said:

As for my odds, thats none of anyones business on here. Ill just have you know Im very successful with women, and thats all you need to know

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What is the point in your existence?

L777 said:

What is the point in your existence?

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What was the point of that question?

One point in my existence surely isnt to try to impress a bunch of keyboard jockeys on this forum on how many women I get and how hot they are. I couldnt give 2 sh1ts about what the sauseges on this board think about me. My controversial posts kind of hint at this.

I see people post lay reports on here, how sad.

Lol God, not to start another "War" with you, but....

You say,
"As for my odds, thats none of anyones business on here. Ill just have you know Im very successful with women, and thats all you need to know."

Lol, coming from a guy who demands to see guy's pictures on this forum so he can examine their looks and body to determine if that guy could ever get laid, don't you think you sound like a hypocrite?

Yeah God, let me do one of YOUR methods now. Yeah, show me some pictures? Show me some proof of your "Good Looks Get All The Hot Women" theories?

Lol, I don't really give 2 kangaroo's balls about what you look like, but I thought I would give you a taste of your own prescribed medicine, just to let you see that your prescriptions make no sense, solve no problems, and prove no points.

Yes guys, it's time for a different doctor, "Rid Dr. God of Getting Laid!" He's making us sicker! He's telling us that unless we are well built and have great looks we can't get laid! Oh my! Oh my!

Lol, I'm just joking, this is no invitation for you to begin any debates.

(DJF exits the stage)

I think I've become a little discouraged maybe even a bit depressed, when people make you believe you can develop game so good you can get any girl... then you realize that it's just a numbers game. Practice makes better not perfect.

Those are better odds than mine. bro.

For pure sarging, I'm about:

1 out of 5 conversations lead to a number close
1 out of 5 number closes lead to a first date (this is being generous)
1 out of 5 first dates lead to more than a first date (this is being generous)

My number closing is getting better, in fact I'm batting .500 for the past 3-4 times I've gone out sarging. But my day2 skills are horrible. It is still pretty rare for me to get a day3. I spin 2 plates at the same time, max. And usually one of them is not very attractive to me.

I don't sarge within my social circle because there are no good looking available girls in my social circle.

Online my numbers are even worse and I have to make up for it by emailing a lot of people.

The good news is that I am improving, last year I couldn't even talk to a woman without wanting to run away.

FVCK! Guys, quit being a bunch of flamers. I'm looking to improve my success, how does your flaming help with that?

For the record, I appreciate that God_of_getting_layed posted. He was candid about this DJ fantasy. Frankly, he has posted more info than the other repliers so far. I don't mean that as a flame to the others. Just look at what you posted and ask how that helps ME and THE OTHERS improve? (except for nonchalant.. sorry, I posted at about the same time, and added this edit in parenthesis after).

Now, also for the record, because God_of_getting_layed did not post his numbers, we have no way to confirm or deny that he's great or bad or whatever. But, that's up to him if he wants to share his numbers.

Would you all get back to the problem at hand? What are real numbers? Discuss how this process goes. Take your need to flame and go see a counselor. Let's please be constructive.

Keeping track of your odds won't help you improve yourself. So it is a moot point in the grand scheme of things.

Success is better measured by how good you feel about yourself and the confidence you radiate to those around you, not on statistics.

Thomas94305 said:

Been doing some math about dating.. you get numbers similar to mines??

Let me break down sarging to dating in the following stages:

-Conversation to number close, assuming she is physically attractive enough for you. You can fail to number close for whatever reason. You might disqualify her, and so that would be an aborted number close.
-Number close to first date. She can flake, or you can just be disinterested before/after talking.
-First date to more than first date. Either one of you can be disinterested after the first date.
-How many "more than first dates" or spinning plates do you want, before you pick a girlfriend?

For example, if a guy needs x conversations to get y number closes to get z first dates, he'll need to initiate xyz conversations to get a first date.

In my world, I have the following:

Pure sarging.. that is, situation where a conversation happens, and if I don't close, I probably won't see her again:

1 out of 5 conversations lead to a number close
1 out of 3 number closes lead to a first date
1 out of 3 first dates lead to more than a first date
I'd want to spin perhaps 2 plates at this point, so I have some selection before pronouncing "girlfriend".

So.. I get 5x3x3x2 = 90 convos with someone physically attrative enough to get to a girlfriend.

Sarging within your social circle.. that is, you see this person repeatedly, like at a club or wherever. You have the opportunity to convo with her more than once before you number close. After number closing, you can casually see her again at the group activity, before asking for a date, if you choose, etc.

1 out of 3 conversations lead to a number close
1 out of 2 number closes lead to a first date
1 out of 2first dates lead to more than a first date
I'd want to spin perhaps 2 plates at this point, so I have some selection before pronouncing "girlfriend".

In this world, I get 3x2x2x2 = 24 convos with someone physically attrative enough to get to a girlfriend.

What's your numbers? Feel free to question the numbers (not flame). I'd like to get better odds. These numbers look a bit harsh, but they also look "realistic".

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bro, this is statistics at its finest...

This just brings to mind a lot of my sticking points.

After getting a number close, I always leave too early - even those women I was having a good conversation with, I usually just eject because I'm so happy to get a #close. So then when I call it is usually paper.

Sometimes I remember to stay after #closing and build some rapport, and I get a day2. My day2's so far have been really bad. I got a full close, but I think that was just luck. I always drop my game on day2's - I either go back to 'just being myself' (meaning, AFC), or I am too sexually agressive and it freaks her out (I usually wind up being too sexually agressive with the HB6-7's). More often than usual I disqualify myself and I don't get a day3.

Another huge sticking point I have: When I am at a party, and I really hit it off with someone ane # close her. For some reason I feel like I have to leave her and go all around the room making approaches - when the best thing to do would be to hang with the girl you are vibing with as long as you can and really solidify the rapport. Instead I go around the room making approaches, making myself look bad.

3/5 approached convos lead to a number close
2/3 numbers get thrown away
2/3 number kept lead to a first date
3/5 first dates lead to bj / f-close / 2nd date

Which means!! DRUMROLL: 1/32 approaches equals BJ/F-close/2nd date!

So if I make 1000 approaches I'll be looking at... DRUMROLL: 31.25 BJs / F-closes / 2nd dates

If we estimate there are 3.5 billion women on the planet and 500 million are within my age range for dating and I approach ALL of them:
I'll have a total of: 16 million BJs / F-closes and 2nd dates!

Thomas94305 said:

FVCK! Guys, quit being a bunch of flamers. I'm looking to improve my success, how does your flaming help with that?..

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My suggestion is to stop taking sarging so seriously. I'll admit that running the numbers may seem like the logical thing to do but how many guys in this forum will actually say that they end up ahead in the game? Why not have fun with it without keeping score? Does keeping track actually help your game or is it just for your ego?

There is a gambler's fallacy that's easy to fall into with numbers.

Just because you closed a girl last night, doesn't mean you'll have to wait X attempts before another full close.

In fact, when I first started things tended to come in streaks for a long time before I finally got consistency. Like I'd I'd have 5 regulars going at once, then I'd loose them all within a short time of the first one.

If numbers are tracked as part of longitudinal study to determine the factors that result in lays versus non-lays or something, then it might make sense.

Most guys are already too serious, so anything that adds stress or increases one's outcome dependance should definitely be avoided.

I also think using numbers is kind of pointless as a general metric of how you are doing versus other people because we don't know if similar qualifications are being used. Some guys are only looking for 9+ women for an occasional 3sum. therefore, he will turn away alot of otherwise quality women who may have been attracted before it results in a close. His numbers are essentially useless for comparison to a man-***** who closes anything that walks.

I agree with Francisco. I used to run numbers just for the hell of it, but it is easy for some guys to get caught up in the statistics of pickup.

I mean, come on guys, this isn't baseball. Yes there are rules, and yes you can have a rough idea of your "ratio" to improve on things over time.

Also, comparing one guy's stats to another may not be that useful, because some guys will not even open a girl unless the logistics are proper for getting a solid # close. I am one of those guys, usually. If I've been working or writing for a long period of time without social contact, yeah, sometimes I will chat random girls or people to turn my social brain back on, but if I am seriously interested in hitting a girl, I am not going to just roll in guns blazing without laying some groundwork first. Because of this my # closes may be much higher percentage than some guys, but a guy that is going out in a social way more often than me is probably getting laid 10x more.

Whether it's "just a #'s game or not" is really up to you. If you approach the whole thing as a number's game, it WILL be, and you'll just be rapid-firing at every woman you see, without really trying, and sure...you'll get laid just by the sheer force of statistical probability. On the other hand, another guy might play a very deliberate sort of game where he only opens after a clear approach invitation. It really depends what you want out of it: I don't begrudge the guys who just play a numbers game their own success, even if I'm not one of them.


So comparison really isn't all that meaningful. On the other hand, I understand what you're trying to do here, put some hard numbers up behind the board and be accountable, and I do support that. If it works for you, do it no matter what anybody else says.

everywomanshero said:

...
Most guys are already too serious, so anything that adds stress or increases one's outcome dependance should definitely be avoided....

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Damn good point.

I'll disagree with some of the posters who weren't into the numbers...

For me, this will lead to anything BUT outcome dependency, since I recognize the odds. Some people play the lottery, and "just have a feeling", get too wrapped up in it. I'd realize the odds, and just buy a ticket for fun. I'll go up to a gal, and realize.. 1 in 45, or whatever.. OK, I can't count on her, that's the odds, not my fault. So just have some fun, she's a video game right now.

Here's another interesting slant. Gals odds are EXACTLY the same. Think about it. If 1 out of 5 of our conversations with them end in a number close, then.. 1 out of 5 of their conversations with us end in a number close. If 1 out of 3 number closes we have end in a first date, then.. 1 out of 3 of theirs end in a first date. A freaky thing is that, it does not matter if there's more gals than guys, fewer gals than guys, etc. The numbers work out the same. If I put 10 sociable guys in a room with 20 gals, each guy talks with each gal, and # closes 1 in 5, then that's 10 guys x 20 convos per guy / 5 = 40 number closes. And for the women, each woman spoke with 10 guys, there were a total of 40 number closes, or 2 per gal, so that's 1 number close for every 5 convos the gal had. And, poor things, they can't initiate, we can.

Down the line, when you do date, and they start doing their little tests.. a good option is to just lean back a bit, and let her do the math of having to wait for other guys to initiate, number close, etc.

Another point is that it tells me about how much approaching I really need to do. I got about 45 approaches to get to more than a first date. If I go out and approach about 2 or 3 attractive enough to date, sarge about twice a week, then that's about 5 good approaches a week. That's 9 weeks to more than a first date, not so good. If I'm so busy I can only sarge about twice a week, I'd want to get more like 5 GOOD APPROACHES A NIGHT, so that I'm getting about one new person to date a month. That's still not a great flow of women, but now I have some selection going on.

At any rate, I've got my bottom line, I need to approach 5 attractive gals a night. If I'm not there, if I refuse to look at the numbers, then months will go by, and I'll wonder what's going on. I'd rather do the math up front, instead of wasting time "hoping". Now, I know what's up, and what to do. I can go out, and do what it takes to get up to 5 good approaches a night. In time, I'd want more. In time, I'll also get better at number closing, etc, so my odds improve. But for now, this is my goal.

BTW.. I don't apologize for being able to think

Thomas here's the thing. This is like sales.

If you don't know how to sale correctly, your "numbers" will always be lower than what they COULD have been.

But there's no way to have a 100% success ratio.

What a guy should begin to do FIRST, is understand what sexuality, being a man, and having a natural love for himself is. This would lead to having a natural love for life. Most guys do this backwards. They reach for love to find life, but you must reach for your life and develop your natural self FIRST, and love will develop within, thus love manifests itself on the outside.

I've said before women are attracted to guys with a sexual flow and seductive spirit. So success with women equals having the right inner spirit and attitude. Most guys go wrong, when they try to tack on techniques to APPEAR and IMITATE a guy they have SEEN getting women, but they have no true understanding of WHY the guy got the women. That's why you must develop innerly, they call that inner game. That's all you need.

Then as for the numbers, well, you've got the value that women really truly want, yet they probably wont' admit lol. You are very sexual, so you make her "hot." Then you have a life, you have ambitions and you are going places due to your new found LOVE for yourself (this makes you work out, have goals, want to succeed) so you are the total package. You have the qualities of the nice guy - the success and wisdom, and the qualities of the bad boy- the high sexual flow. That's value, that majority of women will want you for.

Now, as far as "numbers," well when you develop this naturalness I am talking about, no longer do you focus on quantity only, but on QUALITY FIRST, then quantity of quality.

You don't live to meet requirements of women, you know you have value, thus you filter women to obtain those that fit YOUR requirements (quality). Then you do the same thing over and over, until YOU are sexually satisified and have the number of QUALITY chicks that fit YOUR requirements in your life.

The problem with this though, is that majority of women WILL NOT fit the usual requirements. Taht is, being sexy, being supportive, being wise, having ambitions, being there for us in need, caring for us as a person not just because we make her "hot." So there's a filtering that must take place, similar to how Anti-Dump did, do a search on Anti-Dump's system.

Now, if you wish to just attain sex period! Then all you do is do what I've previously stated, and keep your sexual flow very high, then figure out a way to "approach" or "reach" a high number of chicks in the shortest amount of time possible. What I do, is I use internet chat forums to reach a number of chicks fast. Then after I get their number, I have phone sex with the chick, then I go and pick her up that night or the next night and have real sex. After that, we might hang out or go on dates, but usually, I get bored and move on to the next girl in line.

Numbers For Getting Sex (But you must have the sexual flow FIRST)
1. Approach or meet 12 chicks a week.
2. Obtain 9 numbers, the other 3 will usually be flirts but not convert (yet).
3. You should have phone sex with about 5 of the 9 (the other 4 can't be tracked down, or are just still flirting and won't go into the moaning yet)
4. Then of the 5 phone sexed, you go pick her up and do the real thing.

But really, it's not the Numbers, its first building your value (sexual state) then getting in contact with as many chicks as possible to keep the different lays occurring.

(Damn that was a long post)

Lol, don't be like many sales reps. They will do the field work (calls) but wont' do the education (increasing how they present their value, and understanding value). You must do both, if you have value yet don't approach, you get nothing. If you approach all day and have no value, you get nothing. You need both to equal a successful acquiring of sexual relationships, that I liek to call "Pvssy Flow." Pvssy Flow is residual pvssy, pvssy that you put in "work" for yesterday, that will reward you with on-going pvssy each week for a long time. Build up around 10 chicks in your "Pvssy Flow" and you won't need to go to sarge anymore.

DJF or John said:

...You don't live to meet requirements of women, you know you have value, thus you filter women to obtain those that fit YOUR requirements (quality). Then you do the same thing over and over, until YOU are sexually satisified and have the number of QUALITY chicks that fit YOUR requirements in your life. ...

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It's nice to hear someone else preach this for a change.

b1tches dont know math. stop with the damn numbers