Get BACK to basics...

[mrRuckus]

Originally Posted by KarmaSutra

To save my life I cannot do a fvcking pull-up. I'm too fat in the ass. I'll stick to deadlifts and rows.

I agree though, 75% of the guys at Golds I see working out only do chest and arms and legs. Very little back work. They don't realize ho much they're minimizing the gains.

You realize the best gains are had by doing what is the hardest for you, right? Get some bands for pullups or start using the assistance machine.

Someone needs to teach those guys that back strength facilitates chest strength. I don't know how you can bench a lot with a weak back.

[Warboss Alex]

Originally Posted by mrRuckus

Someone needs to teach those guys that back strength facilitates chest strength. I don't know how you can bench a lot with a weak back.

you can with a five inch bounce and your spotter doing a bb/upright row hybrid.. even though "It's all you man!"

[Espi]

Originally Posted by kickureface

eespi, i remember your killer back. you think that pullups helped your back mass more than rows did?

Thanks for the comp, kuf.

I have a thick upper back, but I lack width, due in part to my long torso and my avoiding wide-grip pulls for the first year and a half of my fitness regimen.

I do not believe that pulls have added any mass...lately they have added some much-needed width, but no mass or thickness. I contribute the thickness in my back to deads and rows (in that order).

[kickureface]

hmm, what is visible evidence of thickness? is it the definition of bigger muscles such as the erectors, or is it simply just your body from the side has gotten wider?
as for width, isn't adding width = more muscle = more mass?

[stronglifts]

Originally Posted by Espi

“There is no place worth going that requires a shortcut.”

–Anonymous

After legs, back is the most neglected body part.

Why? Well, most people assume building the back not the worth the time or effort. Most men seem to think, “Chicks appreciate nice arms, chest, and abs, so why even bother working out my back?”

After all, girls don’t actually focus on your back, right?

Mistake!

A thick, powerful back is essential for creating that much-coveted “v” tapered physique, making your shoulders appear wider and your waist smaller, and most of us know that women like men with broad shoulders and a small waist.

Nothing beats the deadlift when it comes to widening and thickening the back, but I want to focus on another exercise that most of you are likely avoiding: the pull-up.

Next to deadlift, pulls are the most effective, but, sadly, the most neglected, back exercise. How many guys do you see in your gym performing pull-ups versus lat machine pulldowns? In gyms across America, chances are you will wait in line to the use that lat machine, while the pull-up bar remains devoid of all users.

Why?

Simple: machines are easy, and (like deads and squats) pulls are damn hard. BACK EXERCISE MACHINES ARE SHORTCUTS. The other reason guys avoid pull-ups is they’re embarrassed. Most of us, myself included, could do a measly two to three reps when first starting out. That’s pretty humbling. On the lat machine, however, I could churn churn out 10-12 reps using 100 + lbs. of weight.

I was not getting much result using the lat machine, and one day I finally accepted the fact that in order to build my back, I was going to have to work hard for it, and for me that meant deadlifting and pulling.

If you want a nice back, AVOID the lat pulldown machine and start using the pullup bar. Your strength will increase QUICKLY if you stick with pullups.

If you’re like Iw as and can’t perform more than a few reps, start with reverse grips (palms facing you)…you’ll work your arms more, but you will increase your back strength. Each week, as your strength increases, perform 1 of 3-4 sets with palms facing away. THAT is when you will start to notice muscles forming across the upper portion of your back.

Good post. Don't neglect rows & cleans btw. I place them higher than pull-ups.

[Bling]

Originally Posted by Warboss Alex

you can with a five inch bounce and your spotter doing a bb/upright row hybrid.. even though "It's all you man!"

ROFL @ It's all you man.

[Espi]

Originally Posted by stronglifts

Good post. Don't neglect rows & cleans btw. I place them higher than pull-ups.

Good point,SL:rows and cleans make for a diverse workout regimen...the more diverse the better.

[spesmilitis]

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

explosive pull ups (Kipping Pull Ups) are not as effective as legs fully extended regular pull ups, kipping is good rarely (and alot of fun when you learn how to do them)...but shouldn't replace normal pulls up.

explosive strength comes from explosive/ specialized training, pull ups alone don't improve athletic/explosive ability.

your trying to compensate for the weight being to heavy by doing it faster and using momentum to help you out..bottom line..the weight is to heavy and your not strong enough

That's a buncha crap. All people who are very good at pull ups do them explosively. Doing explosive movements will lead to explosive strength

“[…]Fast lifting indeed creates momentum and this will allow you to move more weight. More weight = more strength = better physique. Again, all sports are performed fast because it allows more power, more speed, more acceleration. Same with strength training.”
-Stronglifts
http://stronglifts.com/should-you-li...or-super-fast/

[spesmilitis]

Drum&Bass, I just looked at your post history for the H&F forums and almost all the advice you give is crap. Its not that what gets to me, not everyone knows everything. What gets to me is that you are very confident in the bad advice you give. I think you're even worse than blinkwatt.

If you're willing to learn, look up post by Warboss Alex, Throttle, MrRuckus, Stronglifts, EFFORT, A-Unit, and Espi. Also go to stronglifts.com

[Drum&Bass]

Heres an example of an olympic lifter who trains for power.

Now heres an example of a bodybuilder.

You would be a fool to think that they train the same way, or have similar routines...

People who train for explosive power DON'T TRAIN THAT WAY TO DEVELOP THEIR PHYSIQUE...

HAVING A GREAT LOOKING BODYBUILDER PHYSIQUE DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN POWER CLEAN 315 OR JERK 225.

specific types of training is conducive for specific needs...the only reason people include power training into a bodybuilding routine is for a variation and most likely for fun. you can go your whole life with out doing any explosive training and have the greatest looking physique on the planet...BUT I GUARANTEE THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH EXPLOSIVE TRAINING YOU DO YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE A BODY BUILDERS PHYSIQUE unless you incorporate some body building training and diet, and if you did that your potential for 100% athletic ability will become hindered...why ? because specific training is needed for specific needs. thats life.

[spesmilitis]

Your last post is off topic. I was talking about pull ups for explosive strength and doing pullups explosively as the most effective way to add weight to the pullup.

[Drum&Bass]

All people who are very good at pull ups do them explosively.

according to who ??? kipping pull ups are easy compared to normal pull ups. why do you think they are better ? why do you think people who are good at pull ups only kip ??

Fast lifting indeed creates momentum and this will allow you to move more weight. More weight = more strength = better physique.

I'm assuming you quoted that because it was suppose to relate with what your saying about explosive lifting and having a good physique, so I gave you 2 examples of 1 person who trains explosively and 1 person that body builds . I was hoping you'd be smart enough to compare their physiques and see the difference in training and the effects it has.

another example..Piros Dimas incredible olympic athlete does explosive training...but I bet all the money in the world he is not STRONG enough to curl or press as the same weight or amount of reps as an amateur body builder. ALL HIS EXPLOSIVE TRAINING MADE HIM GOOD AT LIFTING HEAVY RESISTANCE FROM THE FLOOR OVER HIS HEAD, IN A STATIC HOLD..but..He doesn't have upper body muscle conditioning for training using reps at least not as well as a body builder.

if you want an effective way to add weight to a pull up do them eccentrically with weight or do what everyone else does and start off light.

I was talking about pull ups for explosive strength

explosive strength for what ?!?!?!?!!?!? an explosive pull up will make you better at explosive pull ups !! it won't make you throw a faster punch or increase you vertical jump ! you'll be able to bring your elbows down very quickly when they are above your head.

[spesmilitis]

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

according to who ??? kipping pull ups are easy compared to normal pull ups. why do you think they are better ? why do you think people who are good at pull ups only kip ??

Yes, kipping pull ups are easy. Thats why you add more weight to make them harder. Stronglifts recommends doing them fast, Fedor Emelianko reccomends doing them fast. I recommend dong them fast. My pull up is 6 reps with 70 lbs of extra weight. Do you think I could add 70 lbs to my pull up when I do them with wrong technique? Name one accomplished strength athlete who recommends doing pullups slowly.

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

I'm assuming you quoted that because it was suppose to relate with what your saying about explosive lifting and having a good physique, so I gave you 2 examples of 1 person who trains explosively and 1 person that body builds . I was hoping you'd be smart enough to compare their physiques and see the difference in training and the effects it has.

What do you mean by physique? I define physique as functional strength. The biggest difference between the physique of those two guys is diet, not exercise. Do you really think doing lifts explosively will make one fat?

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

explosive strength for what ?!?!?!?!!?!? an explosive pull up will make you better at explosive pull ups !! it won't make you throw a faster punch or increase you vertical jump ! you'll be able to bring your elbows down very quickly when they are above your head.

I see you never competed in a sport that required explosive pulling. Thats cool. But whats not cool is you being so confident in whats best for those types of sports when you don't even compete with them. Have you ever attempted a single leg takedown against someone whose full out sprawled on you? If you have, then you wouldn't have typed the statement above.

[stronglifts]

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

Heres an example of an olympic lifter who trains for power.

Now heres an example of a bodybuilder.

Rezazadeh doesn't train for looks. Rezazadeh wants strength & mass. He weighs +140kg for the info. Who's the strongest? Coleman or Rezazadeh? Rezazadeh for sure, what if Rezazadeh start to cut down weight?

Here are some ripped chinese weight lifters that train explosively.
Abdullah Malasia
Abdullah
3 weightlifters


The key to muscle is strength. And the key to strength is muscle mass + power + speed.

[stronglifts]

Originally Posted by Drum&Bass

another example..Piros Dimas incredible olympic athlete does explosive training...but I bet all the money in the world he is not STRONG enough to curl or press as the same weight or amount of reps as an amateur body builder. ALL HIS EXPLOSIVE TRAINING MADE HIM GOOD AT LIFTING HEAVY RESISTANCE FROM THE FLOOR OVER HIS HEAD, IN A STATIC HOLD..but..He doesn't have upper body muscle conditioning for training using reps at least not as well as a body builder.

You obviously never done olympic lifts before. You need strength to clean & snatch heavy weights. Strength everywhere: back/legs/traps/core/...

And weightlifters do rep work. Look for piros dimas train video on youtube, you'll see him doing snatches from the hang for reps.