Residual AFC traits

Bokanovsky · Jul 29, 2014

We all know the obvious traits of an AFC: putting women on a pedestal, trying to please women, spending money on women, being their emotional tampon, etc. However, men sometimes behave in ways that, while not self-evidently AFC, nevertheless represent remnants of a blue pill mentality that has not been completely expunged from one's system. Reading these forums, I've noticed several recurring patterns.

1) Seeking closure. By that, I mean spending a lot of time analyzing what went wrong and trying to get an explanation from the girl that dumped you. Seeking closure is AFC because it shows that you still care. It keeps you from moving on. Besides, there is really no such thing as closure anyway. It's just your attempt to rationalize what happened, why things didn't work out. Almost inevitably, you are working with incomplete or downright false information. Any conclusion that you reach as a consequence of "closure" will likely be wrong or, at best, only partially correct.

2) Feelings of guilt. I'm not talking about you feeling guilty because you did something awful. I'm talking about feeling guilty about "using" a girl for sex. If having sex with a woman (regardless of what her expectations about the future may be) makes you feel guilty, you are a relapsing nice guy.

Feel free to add to this list.

backbreaker · Jul 29, 2014

Great post.

I would say that there is a difference in seeing what you did wrong and improving on it and closure. But I agree about closure. When it's done it's done and move on.

Poop1337 · Jul 29, 2014

If you truly have swallowed the red pill you simply can't act AFC. If you understand spending money on a girl doesn't make her like you yet you still want to spend money that isn't AFC that's either insane or just doing what you want to do.

I have a long list of what would be AFC characteristics if it wasn't being done with full knowledge but since I do it with knowing it isn't AFC. You can't un swallow the red pill. Now what I do see are many men on here who think they've taken the red pill and haven't. They say they don't pedestalize women but they do.

As to your points

1. I do seek some closure personally even though I'm under no delusions of such an activity. I probably understand better than the girl why the relationship is ending.

2. I don't use girls for sex or at least that's not how it's framed in my head. That sounds like their vocabulary. I do with out guilt try to continue having sex with girls who claim I only want them for sex. I think what you were trying to say with your number 2 is don't be a white knight maybe?

No.Danny · Jul 29, 2014

I would say caring too much is definitely one that's hard to get over.

SeymourCake · Jul 30, 2014

Bokanovsky said:
1) Seeking closure. By that, I mean spending a lot of time analyzing what went wrong and trying to get an explanation from the girl that dumped you. Seeking closure is AFC because it shows that you still care. It keeps you from moving on.

This is what I've been trying to say.

People, ANALYSIS IS PARALYSIS

Stop analyzing unless you want to remain stagnant for the rest of your life. This is not intended only for the sole purpose of analyzing your past relationships, but life in general!

wishyo · Jul 31, 2014

WTF is this red pill stuff? An article from DJ Bible? I read most of that, still few articles left. Mind telling which one is about this red pill?

Genos · Aug 1, 2014

wishyo said:
WTF is this red pill stuff? An article from DJ Bible? I read most of that, still few articles left. Mind telling which one is about this red pill?

You can go to the redpill subreddit to read some more (though sometimes the discussion can go off track, take things with a grain of salt haha): http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/

I would also reccomend reading Rollo Tomassi's Rational Male Blog, as well as Shark's Solve My Girl Problems blog. Both are extremely helpful, and are based in red-pill theory.

On topic, OP's points makes a lot of sense. But something that I have trouble with is drawing the line between seeking closure and figuring out what you did wrong that made the relationship go sour. I find myself analyzing everything that went on, and what I could have done better.

To a certain extent, this has been enormously helpful, but at the same time I can admit that it has bled over into unhealthy mental stress and obsessing over mistakes as well. "Analysis is Paralysis" couldn't be more true, I've definitely been experiencing it these past few months.

So my question is, how do I know when to stop analyzing what I did wrong in order to improve (which I think we can all agree is what you're supposed to do), and not let that effort overflow into seeking the ever elusive notion of 'closure'? Where do I draw the line?

Cremasta · Aug 1, 2014

Like a lot of guys here, I came to this site an absolute AFC after getting seriously burnt.

After leeching info of this forum, I did a total 180 and became a charming arsehole. It was liberating and I managed to bed at least a couple of my 'fantasy' girls that I'd known for a while but never tried anything with.

I couldn't keep that going, because I just found it was too much hard work and simply wasn't me. So I dialled it back a bit and let a bit more respect back into my game, basically let a few AFC traits back in the door. I was happy (on occasion) to give a girl a lift, or buy her a drink without expecting anything.

The two things I didn't let back in were:
1) taking crap from girls. If I didn't like what they were doing, they were told to sort themselves out or piss off.

2) I stopped trying to figure out why women do what they do.

Much happier now

Genos · Aug 1, 2014

@Cremasta, I dunno if it's a good idea to stop trying to figure out what women do completely.

True, I definitely agree that thinking too much about it will bring us stress, overanalysis can be harmful (there must be a careful balance); but there's definitely value in seeking to understand the female psyche on an intuitive level. Even with the still incomplete knowledge that I've gained by studying PUA for the past couple years, I've noticed tremendous improvements in my ability to calibrate to a specific girl or situation because I know the reasoning behind her actions.

Eternal_water · Aug 1, 2014

Number 2 is not an AFC trait for me. I feel no guilt for any of this stuff.

Not being sexual with them through a combination of not knowing how and fear of doing so is my residual afc trait.

Bokanovsky · Aug 1, 2014

Konduit said:
To a certain extent, this has been enormously helpful, but at the same time I can admit that it has bled over into unhealthy mental stress and obsessing over mistakes as well. "Analysis is Paralysis" couldn't be more true, I've definitely been experiencing it these past few months.

So my question is, how do I know when to stop analyzing what I did wrong in order to improve (which I think we can all agree is what you're supposed to do), and not let that effort overflow into seeking the ever elusive notion of 'closure'? Where do I draw the line?

Start caring less about the outcome of your relationships/interactions with women. Easier said than done, I know, but it's the only way. When you overanalyze, not only do you stress yourself out, but you usually come to the wrong conclusion.

The_411 · Aug 1, 2014

Bokanovsky said:
We all know the obvious traits of an AFC: putting women on a pedestal, trying to please women, spending money on women, being their emotional tampon, etc. However, men sometimes behave in ways that, while not self-evidently AFC, nevertheless represent remnants of a blue pill mentality that has not been completely expunged from one's system. Reading these forums, I've noticed several recurring patterns.

1) Seeking closure. By that, I mean spending a lot of time analyzing what went wrong and trying to get an explanation from the girl that dumped you. Seeking closure is AFC because it shows that you still care. It keeps you from moving on. Besides, there is really no such thing as closure anyway. It's just your attempt to rationalize what happened, why things didn't work out. Almost inevitably, you are working with incomplete or downright false information. Any conclusion that you reach as a consequence of "closure" will likely be wrong or, at best, only partially correct.

2) Feelings of guilt. I'm not talking about you feeling guilty because you did something awful. I'm talking about feeling guilty about "using" a girl for sex. If having sex with a woman (regardless of what her expectations about the future may be) makes you feel guilty, you are a relapsing nice guy.

Feel free to add to this list.

AFCism is a reflexive "disorder". One will always spring back to certain behaviors because they were repeated ad nausea. It takes time to remove them.

Closure is the AFC attempt to massage the ego. It's a failure to integrate that the individual failed to act first or even screen properly.

All relationship end the difference is that the true DJ sees a problem understands the severity and acts whereas the AFC may or may not see problem, may or may not understand the severity, and fails to act.

AttackFormation · Aug 1, 2014

I'm shy and self-conscious with girls unless it's a "natural" situation. That's the only real problem I know of.

Residual AFC traits

Bokanovsky

Master Don Juan

backbreaker

Master Don Juan

Poop1337

Senior Don Juan

No.Danny

Master Don Juan

SeymourCake

Banned

wishyo

Don Juan

Genos

Senior Don Juan

Cremasta

Master Don Juan

Genos

Senior Don Juan

Eternal_water

Master Don Juan

Bokanovsky

Master Don Juan

The_411

Master Don Juan

AttackFormation

Master Don Juan