Acknowledging your GF has the upper hand.

I am in a situation right now where the power dynamics have shifter in my relationship. For several months, I called the shots, she was the one always wanting to see/speak to me, she went appreciated the slightest forms of affection I gave her. Now, I can see that she cares less, can wait until I initiate contact, and displays utter rudeness if we argue.

I've done NC a week ago on her and it 'worked' temporarily but now she's back at it. This has been going on for a couple of weeks.

Is the best way NC again? If so, what should I specifically address if/when she breaks NC? I don't just want to practice silence, get her to miss me a lot, then come back to the same BS. I recognize that I have been overly protective of her in the past month because of an incident that happened and I guess my trust for her went down a bit. We basically argued about the fact that there is no such thing as pure male female friendships because any of her male friends would gladly use her at any given time and she of course rejected this. It all came about because I told her not she can't hang out with her guy friend alone at college events.

DunSweat said:

It all came about because I told her not she can't hang out with her guy friend alone at college events.

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In cases like this, I find it is more effective to use action instead of words to tell a woman that she can't be hanging out with a guy alone at college events.

Early in a relationship, I caught my girl texting one of her orbiters. I immediately withdrew my attention over the next few days and started hitting up other potential plates. She got pissed off about it and complained that I don't cherish her like a girlfriend and I shouldn't be texting other women.

I told her that I don't get into relationships with women who keep orbiters (not the exact word I used) around. She immediately got the point and started apologizing and deleting every text. That set the precedent early on and she doesn't do it anymore.

There is a big debate here about boundaries but I find that using subtle methods to set boundaries generates a better result. I'm not saying that your girlfriend would respond in the same way that mine did but if she really likes and you cherishes you, she will do anything to keep you around.

A woman texting other guys and hanging out with them alone gets an instant demotion to fvck buddy status in my books. She becomes nothing more than a pump and dump to me. If she wants to become exclusive with you, she'll know what she has to do. NO DISCUSSION.

She'll text him anyway if she wants to. She'll just do it behind your back and delete the texts before you see them. This has been debated to death and you cannot control this behavior.

GS750 said:

She'll text him anyway if she wants to. She'll just do it behind your back and delete the texts before you see them. This has been debated to death and you cannot control this behavior.

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Obviously. People will do anything they want to if they really want to. It just won't be an issue like in the OP's situation where she's so brazen and rude about it.

Yeah...true. OP, looks like you may need to end this relationship. Soft nexting or short periods of NC may not fix this.

If you're in an actual relationship with someone you don't just "no contact" them. But I don't have a read on how serious you are. In any case, you seem to fundamentally disagree with each other regarding appropriate behaviour in a relationship. Also, seems like you haven't been dating long and you're already fighting a bunch. So I doubt this thing is gonna last.

In every day interactions with people, nobody is going to always have the "upper hand." Sometimes she will, sometimes you will. Deal with it. You do realize you're dealing with a human being, not some sosuave abstraction of what a woman is, right?

NC works because it makes her fear you have gotten new pvssy. You could just skip that and get actual real new pvssy, thereby accomplishing the same goal and getting you laid twice as much. A woman will never respect you if she thinks you can't get laid without her.

GS750 said:

She'll text him anyway if she wants to. She'll just do it behind your back and delete the texts before you see them. This has been debated to death and you cannot control this behavior.

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Exactly, that's what my ex did to me.

She initially told me about going to "lunch" with another guy, I told her I don't go out with girls who just want sex and just looking for other guys. Well she then said OK, that she's sorry and that she won't do it anymore.. BULLS***. Then she needed help in some of her homework, and as many girls do they use guys to help them or straight out do it for them, even though they may not necessarily want to sleep with them - the guys are usually some betas who think this is how to get p*****.

Since we were in different cities there (in the other sides of the US), a couple of weeks later she went out to dinner with some guy from class anyway. I only found out the next day when she started crying on the phone about how she had to do it because I'm not helping her enough and so on and so on. I asked her why would she go to dinner? "I had to, he's helping me, he's just a friend".

I also caught her once texting someone on Whatsapp, and she deleted it straight away as soon as I looked. I asked her what she was doing, she was saying that she just deletes her conversations, and went about to delete some other conversations randomly. This was a girl I was living with (in her place abroad) for several weeks, but even then she was looking at other options.

Some women behave like little girls, reverse rationalising anything and everything. That said I think setting a border once makes sense, after then only way to do it is to ignore her until she comes back crying on the phone with you, or straight dump her a**. But yes it's a really tough one.

My decision was: bang another girl.

tell her "Bish...you better check yourself before your wreck yourself" Lol. OP, you're going to have to drop this chick. She's not going to stop with her sh*t behavior.

Why do you want to be around her anyway?

She's not a ho3 to make things clear, and I'm not saying that because of oneitis or any other reason besides that it's a fact. Does she display BS feminist traits of 'I am independent and you are not the authority of me'? Yes, she does. That's where I'm struggling. I have dated big feminists before and we didn't go past three dates and a lay because I couldn't stand hearing about what they had to say but this girl isn't that bad. I just know that because of some fatherish type of AFC behavior I have done, she's gotten emotional and is justifying the feminist theory to herself and not being as respectful as she once was to me.

I have dated dozens of girls, been in serious relationships with half a dozen and I'm almost 30. I am at a point in my life where I accept women for what they all are - sometimes sh1t testers, sometimes servants, sometimes over emotional but should always be the woman and me the man. I don't want to be with a door mat either, I've dated them and they're almost the AFC version of men and they become annoying and it's hard to take them seriously because that's how they are in day to day life not just with me.

I want this relationship to work guys. I really do. But I won't let on going disrespect happen from anyone in my life. That's why I am asking you all for advice on how to address these issues now so I know by the end of the year that it's either working or I leave once and finally because I don't break up with girls to make up. Once I leave, I'm gone.

DunSweat said:

She's not a ho3 to make things clear, and I'm not saying that because of oneitis or any other reason besides that it's a fact. Does she display BS feminist traits of 'I am independent and you are not the authority of me'? Yes, she does. That's where I'm struggling. I have dated big feminists before and we didn't go past three dates and a lay because I couldn't stand hearing about what they had to say but this girl isn't that bad. I just know that because of some fatherish type of AFC behavior I have done, she's gotten emotional and is justifying the feminist theory to herself and not being as respectful as she once was to me.

I have dated dozens of girls, been in serious relationships with half a dozen and I'm almost 30. I am at a point in my life where I accept women for what they all are - sometimes sh1t testers, sometimes servants, sometimes over emotional but should always be the woman and me the man. I don't want to be with a door mat either, I've dated them and they're almost the AFC version of men and they become annoying and it's hard to take them seriously because that's how they are in day to day life not just with me.

I want this relationship to work guys. I really do. But I won't let on going disrespect happen from anyone in my life. That's why I am asking you all for advice on how to address these issues now so I know by the end of the year that it's either working or I leave once and finally because I don't break up with girls to make up. Once I leave, I'm gone.

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If you say to her, you don't want that the hangs out with other d.icks and she doesn't accept that inlcuding your point of view (female male friends blabla)...thats a form of disrespecting you. And the way she does it it makes it even worse in my opinion.

Remember the ultimate goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality. Going AFC in front of a feminist is a disaster - you need to reverse this damage or just walk away.

Most feminists are larger, older, and uglier, and hate younger, hotter women, but like all things women do, they're indirect. They channel this rage toward men, and hate on NATURAL male desire toward younger, hotter women.

You must be as alpha as possible to a feminist, because the most ardently ultra-feminist woman will still feel 'gina tingles for a man more alpha than her, and start purring like a kitten, no matter what uber femicvnt speak the hole in her face spews. Your mistake was buying into her BS and going AFC. Ideally women want sexual marketplace choice - to still fvck alphas and have beta husbands under their thumbs to raise the alpha offspring (basically cuckolding the beta). Women hate anything that takes away this choice or screws up a woman's ability to discern which men are true alphas (a fun conversation to have is discussing the merits of a male birth control pill, which will set a feminist's hair on fire). This is the real reason why women hate "The Game," because betas learning game and becoming alphas screws up a woman's ability to have defined categories of men.

Walk away, even for a little bit, and get over your AFC symptoms. You can come back to this from a position of control. Spin other plates, date other women. Expect her to challenge your frame, confidence, and self-respect. But do not relent. Once she senses that you've grown and she can't get away with the same BS before you walk away, she'll either shape up, or move on and you can let her be some other beta's nightmare. You want a feminine woman in your life and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

soden said:

If you say to her, you don't want that the hangs out with other d.icks and she doesn't accept that inlcuding your point of view (female male friends blabla)...thats a form of disrespecting you. And the way she does it it makes it even worse in my opinion.

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That is true. That is true.

Stugots26 said:

Remember the ultimate goal of feminism is to remove all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality. Going AFC in front of a feminist is a disaster - you need to reverse this damage or just walk away.

Most feminists are larger, older, and uglier, and hate younger, hotter women, but like all things women do, they're indirect. They channel this rage toward men, and hate on NATURAL male desire toward younger, hotter women.

You must be as alpha as possible to a feminist, because the most ardently ultra-feminist woman will still feel 'gina tingles for a man more alpha than her, and start purring like a kitten, no matter what uber femicvnt speak the hole in her face spews. Your mistake was buying into her BS and going AFC. Ideally women want sexual marketplace choice - to still fvck alphas and have beta husbands under their thumbs to raise the alpha offspring (basically cuckolding the beta). Women hate anything that takes away this choice or screws up a woman's ability to discern which men are true alphas (a fun conversation to have is discussing the merits of a male birth control pill, which will set a feminist's hair on fire). This is the real reason why women hate "The Game," because betas learning game and becoming alphas screws up a woman's ability to have defined categories of men.

Walk away, even for a little bit, and get over your AFC symptoms. You can come back to this from a position of control. Spin other plates, date other women. Expect her to challenge your frame, confidence, and self-respect. But do not relent. Once she senses that you've grown and she can't get away with the same BS before you walk away, she'll either shape up, or move on and you can let her be some other beta's nightmare. You want a feminine woman in your life and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

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Do you think if I don't officially break up with her, still hang out with her now again but live a fuller life outside of the relationship then that'll send the message I want? I mean, I don't want to do that to send a message I actually just want to get back to who I am and who I was being a few weeks ago. I don't want to be this over thinking, moping fool that I have been for the past two weeks. I want to not cheat on her because I feel less of a man if I do that, I'd rather just dump her first but because I don't want to end it just yet I'll give her space without going totally NC. I've done that before with ex's and they usually can't stand the fact that you're doing other things or hanging with buddies when you 'should' be speaking with them on the phone or going out for lunch on 'our' day.

The reason I'm so confused is I really don't want to play games. With my ex, I genuinely didn't play games and she was a hard to get kind of girl too when I met her then she crumbled because when she sh1t tested me I would just ignore her. I remember once she told me it's her work friend's birthday and they're going out and it'll just be her and her female work friend with half a dozen guys and would I mind. I said no have fun then she rang me later puzzled as to why I didn't care. I saw this ex as much lower quality then my current GF during the relationship and my GF totally sees that and takes advantage of it.

I have trust my girl wouldn't cheat but the betas around her are seriously as beta as it gets. They'll go half way around the world to get her a cup of coffee if she asked. I not used to being with a girl who is as strong minded as this one, I have been with girls who call me 10 times after a fight.

Here is a great example of how boundaries don't work.

You set a boundary with her albeit late a boundary was still set anyway.

She crossed your boundary cause she doesn't respect you enough to follow it.

Even if you set a boundary months ago she would still cross it cause she doesn't respect you enough to follow it now.

It has to do with her interest level. Not any boundary you set months prior.

She will follow the boundary with high interest.

When her interest is low she will break your boundary cavorting with other men.

Boundaries are there for a security blanket giving you phony assurance and false hopes with a fake power trip.

DunSweat said:

Is the best way NC again? If so, what should I specifically address if/when she breaks NC? I don't just want to practice silence, get her to miss me a lot, then come back to the same BS. I recognize that I have been overly protective of her in the past month because of an incident that happened and I guess my trust for her went down a bit. We basically argued about the fact that there is no such thing as pure male female friendships because any of her male friends would gladly use her at any given time and she of course rejected this. It all came about because I told her not she can't hang out with her guy friend alone at college events.

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The best way is to end this relationship for good.

I already told you to do that in your last posting.

You already went NC and it didn't work. She is still fighting with you showing disrespect.

Not speaking to her for a few days isn't going to change anything.

When you two resume your talks she will fight with you again.

Temporary fixes don't work when there is a crack at the core.

Putting tape on a cracked pipe isn't going to fix the problem with the pipe. The pipe needs to be replaced. She needs to be replaced too.

You have expectations of what an exclusive relationship should be.

If she isn't adhering to what you expect then you end the relationship with her.

It's really that simple.

Trying to argue with her forcing her to abide by your boundaries is never going to work.

She has free will and will do what she wants when she doesn't respect you.

Why fight with her? Get someone new . You won't have to put up with it.

She will hang out with him when she wants to. It has to be her decision not to hang out with him. You forcing her not to will make her want to hang out with him even more.

Start hanging out with new girls.

handle said:

If you're in an actual relationship with someone you don't just "no contact" them. But I don't have a read on how serious you are. In any case, you seem to fundamentally disagree with each other regarding appropriate behaviour in a relationship. Also, seems like you haven't been dating long and you're already fighting a bunch. So I doubt this thing is gonna last.

In every day interactions with people, nobody is going to always have the "upper hand." Sometimes she will, sometimes you will. Deal with it. You do realize you're dealing with a human being, not some sosuave abstraction of what a woman is, right?

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It is very evident that you have no experience with relationships or with real life experience.

Powerful people will always have the upper hand over the less powerful.

That is how our society works. There is always the lower rung of society that will never have the upper hand.

Women in marriages will gain the upper hand over their beta husbands. The beta husbands will supplicate for the little sex they get until her demands are fulfilled.

Relationships are the same way when she is disrespecting the man. She has the power to run the relationship her way as the beta will do what she says in order to stay with her.

Relationships can be terminated at anytime.

All he has to do is decide that it is over ignoring her.

When she initiates contact he tells her the relationship is over.

That is how it works with relationships.

Get some experience in these areas of life.

Someone always has the upper hand. Weather it's your girlfriend, your dad, your coworker, your boss, the cop who pulls you over, etc. You...do not have the upper hand in this situation. BUT, you can break up with her before she breaks up with you. Because deep down you know that it's going to end. Mind as well be on your terms.

Soolaimon said:

It is very evident that you have no experience with relationships or with real life experience.

Powerful people will always have the upper hand over the less powerful.

That is how our society works. There is always the lower rung of society that will never have the upper hand.

Women in marriages will gain the upper hand over their beta husbands. The beta husbands will supplicate for the little sex they get until her demands are fulfilled.

Relationships are the same way when she is disrespecting the man. She has the power to run the relationship her way as the beta will do what she says in order to stay with her.

Relationships can be terminated at anytime.

All he has to do is decide that it is over ignoring her.

When she initiates contact he tells her the relationship is over.

That is how it works with relationships.

Get some experience in these areas of life.

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Funny, because with your mindset I'm convinced that you have extremely little experience. Yes, certain people in certain positions of power hold an "upper hand" over others in a society. However, in real life (not imaginary internet seduction land, I mean out there where there's real people), the vast majority of us experience fluctuations in our positions of power (and by this I mean fluctuations in relation to others -- things are always relative). The "upper hand" is contextual and relative. For instance, some days maybe you don't hold your 'frame' as well as others. This should be logical and self-evident, but if it isn't and we really want to get into this we'd have to define our terms well. What do you consider "the upper hand?"

I happen to have a rather fulfilling, positive track run when it comes to relationships. You know why? I just apply basic principles. I'm my own person, I have a backbone, I follow my passions, I'm honest and direct about what I want, and I treat people with common decency regardless of gender.


The question is: "am I having a good time, is this enriching my life, and am I being respected?"
Cut all the other bs out. If you really believe you have to constantly be toying with "tools" like 'going no contact,' how are you ever going to actually enjoy your relationships?
Regardless of how I feel about the OP's values, his view of appropriate behaviour is at odds with his girl's views. Why is he wasting his time? OP: are you having a good time? Is this enriching your life? Are you being respected? It ain't rocket science and you don't need a toolkit of techniques. No Contact… You gotta be kidding me. This isn't middle school, guys.


And one more thing:

Can we stop hitting the return key twice after every sentence?

A lot of you are guilty of this.

It makes you sound like a try-hard motivation blogger.

Not every sentence you type is worthy of being its own pull-quote.

Seriously, what happened to paragraphs?

Danger said:

This is an awful example, because nobody should set a boundary mid-relationship.

Nice try though.

The only right move is to dump her, she doesn't give two $hits about this guy.

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Nobody needs to set a boundary at all if they have high value.

You only fixate on one sentence and skip over the rest of my comments.

Even if he set a boundary months ago she would still break the boundary now with her new low interest.

That is what I've been trying to get you to understand in at least 7 pages in the other thread.

Boundaries don't work they are useless with low interest women.

handle said:

Funny, because with your mindset I'm convinced that you have extremely little experience. Yes, certain people in certain positions of power hold an "upper hand" over others in a society. However, in real life (not imaginary internet seduction land, I mean out there where there's real people), the vast majority of us experience fluctuations in our positions of power (and by this I mean fluctuations in relation to others -- things are always relative). The "upper hand" is contextual and relative. For instance, some days maybe you don't hold your 'frame' as well as others. This should be logical and self-evident, but if it isn't and we really want to get into this we'd have to define our terms well. What do you consider "the upper hand?"

I happen to have a rather fulfilling, positive track run when it comes to relationships. You know why? I just apply basic principles. I'm my own person, I have a backbone, I follow my passions, I'm honest and direct about what I want, and I treat people with common decency regardless of gender.


The question is: "am I having a good time, is this enriching my life, and am I being respected?"
Cut all the other bs out. If you really believe you have to constantly be toying with "tools" like 'going no contact,' how are you ever going to actually enjoy your relationships?
Regardless of how I feel about the OP's values, his view of appropriate behaviour is at odds with his girl's views. Why is he wasting his time? OP: are you having a good time? Is this enriching your life? Are you being respected? It ain't rocket science and you don't need a toolkit of techniques. No Contact… You gotta be kidding me. This isn't middle school, guys.


And one more thing:

Can we stop hitting the return key twice after every sentence?

A lot of you are guilty of this.

It makes you sound like a try-hard motivation blogger.

Not every sentence you type is worthy of being its own pull-quote.

Seriously, what happened to paragraphs?

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It's evident that a guy with no experience has to divert the topic to sentence structure instead of the topic at hand.

I can type anyway I want. What do you think of that?

Nothing you posted above has any substance at all.

Having the upper hand means being in control of the situation.

When a woman is disrespecting you she isn't taking you seriously as a man.

She isn't going to listen to what you say. She is going to do what she wants.

She is holding the frame. You are being the submissive beta trying to regain your frame.

This guy is not enjoying his relationship. That is why he is posting his problem. Are you that ignorant?

Nothing this girl is doing is enriching his life.

As a man you control the situation to how you want it to be.

If you don't like her disrespecting behavior you dump her.

I suppose you would kiss her ass trying to smooth things over as you are still being disrespected each day after.

He tried to work it out with her giving her another chance.

She lied to him going back on her word.

He has no reason to talk to her when he wants to end things. There is no point in doing that. The relationship is over.

All she is going to do is fight with him over the phone. That is useless wasted time that can be better spent having sex with other women.

That is the difference between beng a man and a beta hoping for the best only to get dumped a few weeks later.

Between the boundary guys and the ass kissing betas you guys have a lot to learn.

… Would you agree that control over others is rarely ever absolute? You are ignoring the key component of my previous post (for clarity's sake: it's the first part.)

I now understand: one of the main things you want to communicate is that leaving without any contact is perfectly acceptable. I disagree -- it takes about five minutes to state clearly that it's over, and it's simple human decency. You say that time could be better spent having sex with other women. Again, you are speaking from an idealized perspective that has little to do with the goings-on of everyday life. We both have time to have petty arguments on an internet forum, so clearly it follows that even you have a bit of dead time in your day between all the sex you're having.

You seem to be a little unclear on what I was saying in that third paragraph so I'll say it a little differently: if I were in the OP's situation I wouldn't do some cop-out "no contact" thing, hoping that the situation might improve. I would just call her up and dump her. I wouldn't do it for some "dominance" reason, I would do it because I wasn't having any fun and I wasn't feeling respected. I am trying to say that we don't have to get into all this dominance theory bs and these terms like "no contact" to make decisions in our dating lives. I don't know how you inferred that I would "kiss her ass." Where do I suggest that? Would you like to quote it back for me? Seriously, I would love to see where I said that. Find it.

And on that note, organizing your writing helps people understand what you mean. In your case it would also help to be careful in your reading. It's important stuff seeing as we are communicating through writing.