Getting over separation, really need some help...

Genos · Jul 16, 2014

Basic Context: I dated this girl (I'll call her K) back in May at university; before she graduated I asked for an LDR, and she said she didn't want to (she's an international student, going back to her country for a couple years), and we separated relatively amiably. We both still had attraction for each other though, was the tough part. Over the course of the summer, we messaged each other a little bit (probably a bad idea), even though we said we shouldn't talk. One day, I randomly saw her on the bus, we talked for a bit, and she initiated contact with me again via email. After a random week interim where we didn't contact each other, I emailed her again. After responding to that email (a little sharply, I guess - her writing didn't seem normal), she also said:

Her (4:00pm):
i am on campus today. i am leaving at 6. thought i should at least let you know.

Me (Next day, 10am, did not catch her email in time - I wanted to offer to see her again though)
If you wanted to hang out before you leave (august, right?), I'm pretty much always in the student center for the wc games- Feel free to drop by if you're around again. [mutual friend] left for Oxford yesterday, I lost my wc buddy

Her (Midnight of that next day):
(Konduit), lets not communicate. I emailed you like at 4 pm yesterday and you did not even bother to reply. Whatever we had between us, may seem like nothing to you but it meant something to me. And I don't want to hang on to that feeling or thought or whatever, I don't know. So, I am being serious when I say this, I don't want to talk to you. Don't write to me. I will delete your emails without reading.

Me (next morning)
I didn't see your reply until much later - sorry we missed each other on campus K. If you want to talk about something, call me. If not, take care, good luck with your work.
~~~~~~
I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong...I hope it's not just a simple matter of me replying too late. Maybe I didn't reciprocate the same kind of directness which she showed to me? What do you think of my responses? (be brutally honest!) Also, should I not have responded when she said firmly to not write back? I felt I had to...I also have no idea why I said 'sorry'...literally did not see her email in time, I shouldn't have apologizeD...

I can admit that I was not totally free from outcome, and I wasn't clear in my intent - I really wanted to see her again, but I only indirectly invited her out (to join me at a wc game) instead of directly acknowledging her invite and proposing something else; my guess is, I think she became a little dejected and left me because I didn't reciprocate her interest properly. But it also seems to me that she overreacted a bit? Maybe she was putting a lot of weight on us meeting that day? Even if she was overreacting, I want to take as much responsibility that I can - what could I have done differently to avoid this?

I don't think I want to get back together with this girl, I think I can move on from that (I realize it's pretty much impossible with her leaving the country in a month, and will be gone for 2 years), but I absolutely despise separating on bad terms with someone, it really pains me. Add to that the fact that she might believe I don't care for her, is gut-wrenching.

Thankfully, I haven't contacted her beyond that last email I sent (I tried to remain as nonreactive as I could), even though I have had MASSIVE urges to do so. Do y'all think she will contact me back to reconcile? I can't really contact her again (I read the no-contact guide pinned on this forum)...How do I move on if she doesn't want to reconcile?

Pretty_Tone · Jul 16, 2014

Konduit said:
Basic Context: I dated this girl (I'll call her K) back in May at university; before she graduated I asked for an LDR, and she said she didn't want to (she's an international student, going back to her country for a couple years), and we separated relatively amiably. We both still had attraction for each other though, was the tough part. Over the course of the summer, we messaged each other a little bit (probably a bad idea), even though we said we shouldn't talk. One day, I randomly saw her on the bus, we talked for a bit, and she initiated contact with me again via email. After a random week interim where we didn't contact each other, I emailed her again. After responding to that email (a little sharply, I guess - her writing didn't seem normal), she also said:

Her (4:00pm):
i am on campus today. i am leaving at 6. thought i should at least let you know.

Me (Next day, 10am, did not catch her email in time - I wanted to offer to see her again though)
If you wanted to hang out before you leave (august, right?), I'm pretty much always in the student center for the wc games- Feel free to drop by if you're around again. [mutual friend] left for Oxford yesterday, I lost my wc buddy

Her (Midnight of that next day):
(Konduit), lets not communicate. I emailed you like at 4 pm yesterday and you did not even bother to reply. Whatever we had between us, may seem like nothing to you but it meant something to me. And I don't want to hang on to that feeling or thought or whatever, I don't know. So, I am being serious when I say this, I don't want to talk to you. Don't write to me. I will delete your emails without reading.

Me (next morning)
I didn't see your reply until much later - sorry we missed each other on campus K. If you want to talk about something, call me. If not, take care, good luck with your work.
~~~~~~
I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong...I hope it's not just a simple matter of me replying too late. Maybe I didn't reciprocate the same kind of directness which she showed to me? What do you think of my responses? (be brutally honest!) Also, should I not have responded when she said firmly to not write back? I felt I had to...I also have no idea why I said 'sorry'...literally did not see her email in time, I shouldn't have apologizeD...

I can admit that I was not totally free from outcome, and I wasn't clear in my intent - I really wanted to see her again, but I only indirectly invited her out (to join me at a wc game) instead of directly acknowledging her invite and proposing something else; my guess is, I think she became a little dejected and left me because I didn't reciprocate her interest properly. But it also seems to me that she overreacted a bit? Maybe she was putting a lot of weight on us meeting that day? Even if she was overreacting, I want to take as much responsibility that I can - what could I have done differently to avoid this?

I don't think I want to get back together with this girl, I think I can move on from that (I realize it's pretty much impossible with her leaving the country in a month, and will be gone for 2 years), but I absolutely despise separating on bad terms with someone, it really pains me. Add to that the fact that she might believe I don't care for her, is gut-wrenching.

Thankfully, I haven't contacted her beyond that last email I sent (I tried to remain as nonreactive as I could), even though I have had MASSIVE urges to do so. Do y'all think she will contact me back to reconcile? I can't really contact her again (I read the no-contact guide pinned on this forum)...How do I move on if she doesn't want to reconcile?

You're GOD like you, you're the creator of the universe. her absence is meaningless. women are hypergamy and men are polygamous. So unlike men women don't feel the counter intuitive to act aloof or indifferent in the mist of a break up or separation. You must PUSH yourself through this by forgetting about this girl and PURSUE MORE OPTIONS. The only way to cure your oneitis is by pursuing more options and sleeping with hotter women than the girl in question.

Firestar786 · Jul 16, 2014

She's gone for 2 years so you'll never see her anyway so does it really matter lol.

Greasy Pig · Jul 16, 2014

She made a request to not contact her again and you should happily oblige.
She's secretly hoping you do reach out and plead for forgiveness like a good little whipped beta, but don't give her the satisfaction.
She has clearly stated she doesn't want to communicate with you. So fvck the bytch, don't contact her.
That will earn more respect than trying to patch things up with her.

Sino Zane · Jul 16, 2014

Be honest? Ok.

Well, when dealing with anyone and especially women, it is vital to pay special attention to actions a bit more so than words.

On your part it was an honest mistake. You didn't see the email fast enough. Whatever. You expressed this to her. She may or may not believe you, but it really doesn't matter. Her actions indicate that she no longer wants to deal with you. Assuming she actually received your email, if she viewed you as high-value, she would have responded back to your apology. If she cared, she would have responded back.

Plus you're long distance, and she's leaving for 2 years. Even if she did want to remain in contact with you, she said herself that she doesn't want to be in a LDR with you, which means that she doesn't wanna try to make it work with you, which means that she's gonna try to sample some d!cks out where she's traveling to and doesn't wanna have to put in the effort to remain loyal to you. In other words, she's just NOT that into you and you need to oblige her wishes and never contact her again. You also need to get over your oneitus and see other chicks. Best of luck.

Genos · Jul 16, 2014

I have resolved that I shouldn't contact her anymore, that much is certain... Your words have helped me on this one guys, I think I can keep up NC.

@Sino Zane, What's confusing me is that she told me she was on campus (which seems like a huge indicator of interest), as previously she didn't give an indication of wanting to meet up again when we were chatting. Why would she offer that chance, if she didn't care/wasn't interested?

Regarding my last email, it's possible she might not have read it at all, as she said...Was it a good idea to even send it in the first place? If I had not replied at all, would that have been better? Is there anything I could've improved in my replies? I want to avoid something like this in the future!

I understand that I need to get over her, and that I probably won't hear from her again. But whenever I look at other girls, I compare them to her, and they can't match her kindness and passion for life. It's probably because I still have the hope in my mind that we can reconcile I'm finding it difficult to move on...even if I won't see her again, it's painful. How do I just write her off? Sorry, I'm a bit of a hard case...

Sino Zane · Jul 16, 2014

Konduit said:
I have resolved that I shouldn't contact her anymore, that much is certain... Your words have helped me on this one guys, I think I can keep up NC.

@Sino Zane, What's confusing me is that she told me she was on campus (which seems like a huge indicator of interest), as previously she didn't give an indication of wanting to meet up again when we were chatting. Why would she offer that chance, if she didn't care/wasn't interested?

Regarding my last email, it's possible she might not have read it at all, as she said...Was it a good idea to even send it in the first place? If I had not replied at all, would that have been better? Is there anything I could've improved in my replies? I want to avoid something like this in the future!

I understand that I need to get over her, and that I probably won't hear from her again. But whenever I look at other girls, I compare them to her, and they can't match her kindness and passion for life. It's probably because I still have the hope in my mind that we can reconcile I'm finding it difficult to move on...even if I won't see her again, it's painful. How do I just write her off? Sorry, I'm a bit of a hard case...

I think you're right. She was still interested in you and wanted to hang out with you at least once before leaving to wherever she's headed to. So she sent the email in hopes that you'd offer. But when you didn't respond fast enough, presuming she read the email, she assumed that you MUST have received it and that you just didn't want to hang out with her, which hurt her. It was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. However, it really was just an honest mistake.

Regarding the email, it really didn't matter what you did. Sending the email or not sending the email - it's irrelevant if she has made up her mind because of wrong presumptions.

I'd chalk this all up to fate, my friend. You do need to get over her. If it was meant to be, it'd be, as everything happens for a reason. You've gotta understand that this happening will probably lead you to an even better girl for you, within your immediate environment, who will show you higher interest then just blowing off your emails because of honest mistakes. You've gotta understand that if the equivalent of Tom Brady (or any other man she thought was highly-valuable) was sending her an email, she'd have responded. In other words, if she cared about you A LOT, she would have responded. She still may, though. Who knows?

Genos · Jul 18, 2014

Thanks for the advice again mate.

My last remaining issue that I'm dealing with, is whether I should contact her to try to clear things up. For me personally, I really dislike parting on bad terms with people, it's something that really sticks in my mind; and in this case, even more so, because it's essentially because of a small misunderstanding.

I'd really prefer to leave on good terms, leaving things murky and in a grey area bothers me...should it be affecting me this much? How do I come to terms with leaving things as is?

Will contacting her further be of any help to clear things up (breaking NC in the process...)? Or should I just suck it up and move on?

Poop1337 · Jul 18, 2014

Did you have sex? Sounds like no... So why were you asking for an LDR... That's what helped sour it. Oh and your instinct to end on good terms I mean that's crazy you already did end on good terms. You calling her up or what ever and groveling cause she imagined some injustice would be you ending on beta terms. Here is a secret weapon that might get you some lays before she leaves. Send her a message that you're really pissed at her and need to tell her something. Then go to her place and tell her you're angry she's such a nerd or what ever and misunderstands things then try to F her. It's a long shot but really might work. Do not ever try for an LDR

Krueg · Jul 18, 2014

For me, it just took time to get over an ex. Some guys go out and find a new girl and that works for them. Best thing is No Contact, focus on you and move on..

Genos · Jul 22, 2014

As I've been thinking about this more and more, I've been analyzing all the things that I could've done that would've avoided her getting angry at me.

One thing that I initially thought wasn't important, but that I am now feeling extremely responsible and guilty for, was that on that day she offered to see me, though I didn't see her email in time (she sent it at 4pm and left at 6), I did check my email later that night around 10~ or so. I wanted to take my time and think of a response (I was rather surprised that she had shown interest in meeting), and since it was already too late & I had missed her on campus I didn't think it would be a big deal if I responded later (and I usually spend quite some time trying to write a 'good' email, so extra time to think would've made things easier), slept on it, and replied in the morning.

I realize now that it's possible that by delaying my response, I might've been responsible for things going bad, maybe she wouldn't have reacted this way if I replied earlier...I've done a ton of meditation and introspection on this, and thought of that day many, many times. I KNOW that it was NOT my intention to delay replying until the next morning "because I didn't care" about her, in fact, it might be that I was too attached that I waited to respond. But I feel guilty and disillusioned because perhaps by not replying then, deep down, maybe she was right - if I really cared about her, I would've done it as soon as I could. I kept the ball in my court after she had shown interest in me (kind of relishing it, even) and took it too easy, and I feel bad that I may have hurt her by doing so.

Sorry to pull this thread back from the depths (and thanks for the advice so far), but I need some additional guidance guys...I don't know what's right or wrong, or what to think...I didn't imagine replying the next day would be a big deal...was it unreasonable? I've been stuck in my head the past week, it's been tough to let go...

Special EDy · Jul 22, 2014

Sometimes its best to be honest with people, but on a deeper level than we normally talk. For instance her sharing of feelings is still mostly superficial. Perhaps if you could competently convey the same emotions and needs you spoke here, she may be able to relate to you if not forgive you. Dont explain your feelings, just your needs, and reciprocate the understanding of her needs without harping on her feelings. The feelings will all suppose some sort of blame or expectation, needs are the deepest layer of the onion. All feelings stem from a human need either being met or unmet. Nobody is right or wrong here. I would say she jumped way too far into conclusions from a simple missed texts but you should try to understand that this is just miscommunication, a misunderstanding or intentions and expectations on both sides. We are all guilty of it.

"Hey, I hear that you wish I had responded to your emails sooner, and that you have an unfufilled need to matter(trust, acknowledgement, consideration or stability may work here, I'll let you judge that)."

"I have a need for closure, self-acceptance, integrity, respect, that is not being met with the way the situation ended."

Is it a Don Juan thing to do? No not really. But it is something a highly tuned human being who is excellent at communication and empathy would say. It is 100% about you being vulnerable and transparant. You have nothing left to gain or lose in this relationship other than the feelings you will be left with, so it wouldnt hurt to settle it. Just stick to the needs and maybe some basic feelings, as long as you drop the stragetized "I'm right and youre wrong" ideals we Americans have while communicating the conversation should be rewarding. Dont expect her to be able to respond at the same level of communication, she will likely read right through it and not hear what your saying so much as jump to conclusions; the people I learned this from have been practicing for years or decades and it isnt easy.

Poop1337 · Jul 22, 2014

Did you read my post or answer my questions, a big NO! Why not pal? Why should I even help you when you don't read the material here, you don't read the posts, and you just worry about minutia detail like not writing a girl back fast enough. Go read what I wrote you before and answer my questions.

She wouldn't have even known you read the email and waited to reply. Even if she got some kind of read receipt from when you read it rushing to reply is a bad mind set making them wait some normal amount of time shows you have other priorities which is attractive to girls. She's **** testing you by getting mad at something so retarded and you've failed by letting it get you all worked up and saying sorry.

Special EDy · Jul 22, 2014

By voicing his and her needs he doesnt and shouldnt say he is sorry. There is nothing he did wrong and nothing to be sorry about, but for that to be true then she also isnt in the wrong.

Genos · Jul 22, 2014

@Poop1337 - Ah, sorry man, I got caught up with my own rambling, I left out a reply to you (not helping my case here, am I? heh). Indeed you are correct - we didn't have sex, we got as far as petting. In hindsight, maybe if we did, she would been more invested in me, and an LDR would've been a possibility. I can only blame myself for not escalating further.

Regarding telling her I'm mad and us meeting again, it's truly a gamble. If she does reply, it'd be great, and I'm sure we'd escalate. But if she doesn't reply, I'm really in a deeper hole than I started in...as I think about it to myself now, all I really want is to is move on with a clear head - I've accepted that even if we do meet again, it'll only be for a short while before she leaves the country...and it'll reset the progress I've made and make separating that much harder again..

@SpecialEDy, that's something along the lines of what I've considered doing. The problem, as @Poop mentioned, is that it might be kind of beta-backsliding to message her again - or rather, it might seem like it to her. I would lose value by breaking NC, she would feel more confident in her decision to separate as I came back to her for 'validation', and I would make further NC not mean as much. Ideally, something like what you said would be great to do, but again, there's an inherent risk...I don't know how she's feeling. If she's pining away, it would be very effective - but if she's closed off, I lost the value I had by accepting the separation with some pride, and any existing potential for her to want to reconcile on her own. I'm not even afraid of a negative response - it's the possibility of her simply ignoring me which is the most painful.

I have indeed thought to myself that it was a little unreasonable for her to break things off because of something like this, I do agree that it's a bit hasty (I'm glad y'all feelt something similar); but I think I also must take some personal responsibility for the things I could've done to convey my interest better (maybe changed my replies, etc.) - to avoid the same thing in the future.

Lastly, I think she was a bit too serious for this to be a **** test...but here's the dilemma - her initial premise was that I didn't care enough about her. So if I don't contact her/beta-backslide, I'm kind of proving her thinking was correct (which is definitely not true). If I do contact her, well, I'm in essence beta-backsliding, and she feels safe in her decision. I kind of feel I'm in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation haha. That's why I'm trying to find some peace with the situation within myself first, and then decide whether to reengage or not.

Special EDy · Jul 22, 2014

Use NVC, Non Violent Communication. Your arent admitting guilt, you arent laying blame. You arent guessing her intentions, are you arent explaining yours.
Just express to her "tell me if Im hearing you correctly, your needs for blank blank and blank arent being met", "This makes me feel blank blank and blank."
Then express your own needs, which will help her understand your real motivations, not her percieved ones. "I have a need to leave this relationship with respect, closure, understanding or whatever."

Go google NVC and Dr. Marshall Rosenburg, he is a genius with this stuff. If you watch one of his youtube videos it will open your eyes.

Genos · Jul 23, 2014

@Special EDy, the NVC approach seems like it could be pretty effective in person, but it just seems overly formal for e-communication...I fear it'll kill any attraction or respect she has for me if I lay my feelings and emotions out so plainly like that...I once read that you shouldn't use overt communication with women, only covert. It's just my impression (I might be wrong), but that's my prediction if I send her something along those lines.

And this is all under the assumption that she even chooses to reply, or even read any email I send to her. Going back to what @GreasyPig said above, she made it clear in her email that she did not want to communicate with me (though I don't know how she's feeling now after 2+ weeks of no contact). One thing I want to avoid at all costs is being the ex-boyfriend who keeps messaging her...

Again, I'm just thinking of the best and worst case scenarios. Best case, she deigns to reply, and I can get a phone call with her - but I'll have done a bit of beta backsliding. Worst case, she completely ignores it (will kill my pride...). As much as I would like to reinitiate contact, I don't know if breaking NC is worth the risk here...?

Thanks for y'alls advice so far. I'm starting to get a handle on my emotions now; however, I'm not completely there yet. I think, if I do reengage, it can only be when I've fully gotten over her (at which point I can decide with a clear mind if it's what I want). If I don't speak with an internal state of contentment, my interaction with her will remain jaded. I may just need more time.

Genos · Jul 23, 2014

I've been doing quite a bit of reading; I found two very interesting blogs, both of which have helped immensely in dealing with the separation. They both have articles on the types of breakups:

1. http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/handling-the-two-types-of-breakups/

2. http://www.solvemygirlproblems.com/2012/02/break-ups-2/

Which one do y'all think is the case for me? I honestly don't know whether it's utter indifference, or whether she still has feelings. But, as stated in the heartiste article, if it is breakup #2, then I don't think I should've been aloof - maybe I should've made it very clear that I wanted to meet her? One thing that's quite confusing for me, is that there are so many different viewpoints on how to handle these things - I'm not sure what philosophy regarding separation to follow...

Poop1337 · Jul 24, 2014

You are using game and what ever you can find as a buffer to not be aggressive. She's leaving soon, so just go in there and make some excuse of why you have to see her. Be evil and say she forgot something they she will really need and regret not getting back from you. Make some excuse up of why she has to see you and get her alone in your room or her room and escalate the crap out of it. No apologies or anything just go for it. I think the key to game is not caring and the abundance mentality. The rest is window dressing if you're making the approaches and escalating.

It was very odd and beta, and just doormat like to try to make a girl in this day and age your LDR when you haven't even been screwing or dating. Just do her for the next few days before she leaves. Hopefully she's not doing some other guy already filling that role of guy who she has sex with before she leaves. She's ripe right now man. Don't worry about giving her bad feelings or that you'll miss her too much. Have fun my man, if you go for it now at least you'll have no regrets.

Genos · Jul 26, 2014

You're definitely right - starting from even our initial email conversations this summer, until now, I've just been hiding behind 'proper game'. A real alpha would go after what he wants and not be afraid to show his interest because he's outcome independent. That's something I'll carry with me into the future.

It was absolutely pretty silly of me to go for an LDR without us fvcking, it's hella unrealistic, and in a way, it's probably a good thing she turned me down - otherwise I wouldn't be as motivated to improve as I am now.

Unfortunately, I checked her facebook, and she seems to be out of town at the moment. I doubt I'll be able to see her again, unless her plans change. My only regret is that we didn't end on better terms, and that I didn't get a chance to talk with each other before we separated...but maybe with time, I will feel better hopefully...

Getting over separation, really need some help...

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