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Does anybody understands love?

NeverChase

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When I was a total AFC, 5 years ago, I didn't have any question about love. It was obvious and clear. Attraction however, was impossible for me to understand. :eek:
Nowadays, I'm in a 2 years LTR, and love is something very vague that I don't even try to understand... I would like you guys to try and help me understand it.
When I fight with my LTR, she will cry endlessly and try hard to fix things up, call me and come to my place, even if I treated her like **** during the fight.
When I was about to dump her, she couldn't eat. She says she can't imagine herself with another man, and she's obsessive when I show the smallest interest in any girl. She admitted she faked interest in someone to make me see their chat and feel jealous because she thought I take her for granted. So everyone says she really loves me.

But when we're together I can't see love. she wouldn't bother looking at me when I come back after a few minutes from somewhere, she would rarely give a BJ for more than 10 seconds because she thinks (and says) I should be into her without her doing it, she's not willing to do simple stuff for me like wash a spoon for me, she wouldn't even answer me many times until I said something, and now she just answers without wanting too, she would try to get me to look at her, and then break eye contact so I'm the only one looking (she can hold eye contact forever when she wants), she wouldn't come all the way to kiss me even if she has to give up the kiss, she would text and even answer a call from her orbiter when we're together and finally both of us show some love (we meet for ~20 hours every time though), and tells me how cool is her orbiter (those were a few different guys in those 2 years), she doesn't post any photos together on her facebook (I don't have one). Also she texts with delays most of the time, although I always used to ignore her for at least 1 hour if she doesn't answer within a few minutes.

Those are just few examples, she does a million little things that annoy me although she knows those things break my affection and interest immediately, based on her experience with me. The end result is that I block myself emotionally to her and avoid showing love 80% of the time because of these things.
When I can comment about whatever she's doing wrong, for example texting when we watch a movie, I always comment negatively without being needy and she quits doing it. But there are many things like my examples, that no one socially normal would say anything about, except just giving her freeze outs.

So help me understand this. Her behavior when we fight clearly shows very strong love. I don't want to give more examples because of my respect for her, but everyone who knows about these things says she's in very deep love.
However she would not show many of the normal signs of love and attraction, and she's not afraid to do **** that she probably knows will cause me to freeze out and not give her any affection for hours.
Some of this may come from a problem in her ego. However, Me not willing to show love when she doesn't- comes because I simply know she will lose attraction if I show love at the same time she doesn't.

I did try to talk to her about those problems without giving any examples, saying she should be comfortable being a loving woman so I can feel open with my feelings for her and such, but no real results.
However people agree every HB8+ would act like her, at least in my country (girls here are very different here from what I saw on videos from USA. Girls here have big egos). So dumping her just to find out I don't know how to deal with this stuff with another girl, wouldn't be wise.
It's like her love is just Separation anxiety ? we rarely share very strong mutual love moments, and when we do she usually catches me off-guard, saying something she shouldn't, without getting a proper response from me.
Please help me understand how should I act, if I should rely on her theoretical love and not be afraid to show one-sided love although I hate it, and allow myself to get hurt all the time instead of just blocking myself emotionally from her. :yes: :( :confused:
 
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jurry

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Thats not love dude, thats fear of loss and fear of being alone on her end, and probably just general dissatisfaction from your perspective.

Love is not exclusive, it isnt conditional. It isnt grasping on to one thing, it isnt desire. It is oneness and connectedness and mutual understanding.
 

Skyline

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Love doesn't exist. Well for relationship that is. I can love my car or my furry cat whom I'd cry if died. :cry:
 

El Payaso

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Tictac said:
Turning the telescope around and looking through the small end has its costs.

You're awake now. It's hard to go back to sleep.
Lol. That's some deep stuff, bro.
 

dk1990S111

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I think that the thing that people are taught to call love is very very rare in todays world. A big part of love is respect. People (not just women) have a lot less respect for eachother now compared to even just 100 years ago.
 

NeverChase

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I forgot to mention 2 good examples of her not willing to do stuff for me ,
I have to ask her a few times to wash a spoon for me in her place, and even then she wouldn't always do it unless I give her a freeze out.
And the big one - she's not really willing to answer me sometimes. Until recently she wouldn't answer at all, until I got pissed 1 time and she lied she has hearing problems, and now she just answers like she has to, without wanting to.

Because of these examples alone, I would normally think a girl is not in love.
But the thing that keeps her my GF is how she acts when we fight.
I didn't open this thread until I realized her deep love could be just Separation anxiety!
She's not very social or independent, which supports the separation anxiety thing. :(

Tictac could you be more clear ? You're saying I shouldn't notice all these signs from her because they don't mean much ?
 

sylvester the cat

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Love is a substance. Like gold. It tAkes work to find it. When you find it and can hold onto it you'll never need another person again. But others will gravitate towards you because of it.
 

LMFAO

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Love between man and woman is nothing but a figment of our imagination, it doesn't exist any more so than your made up religion or the smoke monster from Lost. We should just say I really like you and leave it at that.

And remember that even if a woman even does say she "loves" you it is for your value. Not for you the person, but what you bring to her. Don't stroke your ego too much, and never take her words for granted but her actions.
 

IBreatheSpears

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dk1990S111 said:
I think that the thing that people are taught to call love is very very rare in todays world. A big part of love is respect. People (not just women) have a lot less respect for eachother now compared to even just 100 years ago.
How do you know - were you alive 100 years ago?
 

Aware

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NeverChase said:
I forgot to mention 2 good examples of her not willing to do stuff for me ,
I have to ask her a few times to wash a spoon for me in her place, and even then she wouldn't always do it unless I give her a freeze out.
And the big one - she's not really willing to answer me sometimes. Until recently she wouldn't answer at all, until I got pissed 1 time and she lied she has hearing problems, and now she just answers like she has to, without wanting to.
Why do you want her love, if you don't even have her respect? And why don't you respect her, by the way? Acting like a social robot with all those freeze outs doesn't seem to help your cause.

Respect and love cannot be demanded and that's what you are doing.
Respect is earned. Love can only be given, never taken.
 

dk1990S111

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IBreatheSpears said:
How do you know - were you alive 100 years ago?
well for one I talked to my grandparents about this kinda stuff, they were there so Im pretty sure I can take their word for it when they say that people back then had better morals and cheating was a lot less common than the last 30-40 years.

second, adultery has gotten less and less serious as time has gone on...

1600's- - People who commited Adultery were put to death
1700's- People who commited Adultery were fined or given short jail time
1800's to Present- Adultery isn't considered a crime

respecting the commitment a woman has to her husband has everything to do with....respect.

If I was there or not has nothing to do with it. Was anyone alive today around when the dinosaurs were around? No? I guess maybe they didnt actually exist. We'll never know...:rolleyes:
 

NeverChase

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Aware said:
Why do you want her love, if you don't even have her respect? And why don't you respect her, by the way? Acting like a social robot with all those freeze outs doesn't seem to help your cause.

Respect and love cannot be demanded and that's what you are doing.
Respect is earned. Love can only be given, never taken.
So can you give a practical advice, what to do rather than what not ?
 

Aware

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NeverChase said:
So can you give a practical advice, what to do rather than what not ?
I cannot. I don't like giving advices, because people tend to blindly follow them.

What would you do if I told you that if you start loving your girlfriend, she may not understand and would leave you? And if you were truly loving her, you would just let her go?

That's not a practical advice, defenitely not something you wanted to hear and something I barely begin to understand.
 

IBreatheSpears

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dk1990S1111 said:
I talked to my grandparents about this kinda stuff, they were there so Im pretty sure I can take their word for it when they say that people back then had better morals and cheating was a lot less common than the last 30-40 years.
"Rosy retrospection refers to the finding that subjects later rate past events more positively than they had actually rated them when the event occurred"
 

dk1990S111

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IBreatheSpears said:
"Rosy retrospection refers to the finding that subjects later rate past events more positively than they had actually rated them when the event occurred"
cool, so what you are saying is that people respect others the same as people have in the past? good luck to you, you are in total denial if you believe that.
 

cfdagola

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there's a big difference between LOVE and LOYALTY

Love like others have said is unconditional. its an understanding and a togetherness that only deep emotional understanding and friendship is based.

then there's love born or love turned into loyalty

this is where the cheating comes into play, the fights over nothing and just general dissatisfaction and boredom in the relationship. Loyalty love is usually out of guilt because they don't feel the same way anymore. Confusion as to what to do about the situation and then ultimately a deciding factor.

do they stay until they find something else. do they leave and find something else and risk having nothing. or do they stay and just settle for something that they're not really happy about but also not really sad about either. they're just WHATEVER about the situation.

Thing is there will always be a breaking point in love that's turned into or love that loyalty based. Its not that the woman doesn't care about the guy anymore because they do. They just don't want to be with them but are petrified by the indecision about hurting the guy or worse yet leaving the guy and risk being alone. so most just cheat or do whatever it is needed to make the guy call it quits. But they do it carefully so they got something else to lean on when the sh*t hits the fan.

that way they don't need to shoulder the blame. the only downside to this is if the guy is super needy/clingy and decides that NO MATTER what the girl does they will stay. that includes cheating and anything in between so long as they get some affection and attention.

that's when the girl comes to a crossroads. STAY or LEAVE. Most end up staying and hope that maybe their feelings will change. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't.
 

latinnova

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Good post cfdagola. Question is, does all love eventually turn into loyality at some point? Or are some people truly as in love as when they first met as they were 20 years down the road in their marriage? I have not seen this case yet. Most people just tend to tolerate each other at some point in the relationship. Not that they are unhappy with the person, it just becomes every day life and boredom sets in.
 
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