Withdrawal is far more important than C&F and all that hocus-pocus...

I'm a guy who is naturally ****y & funny. I tease, flirt, banter (whatever you wanna call it) with women all the time and, yeah, it eases the atmosphere and makes conversations less monotonous. I mean, that's cool, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that it's THAT powerful.

In my experience, if you do more listening than talking and always give her the feeling that you have somewhere else more important to be, i.e. you are extremely busy, your time is valuable and you leave in the middle of the conversation, preferably at the height, it's far more attractive than some 'funny' phrases that make you look confident. I believe, you should focus far more on the mystery and make her feel your absence than obsess over conversation techniques.

Time is always of the essence. Time is what distinguishes the attractive nice guy from the wuss.

The attractive nice guy is attractive because he is aloof and makes his time scarce.

The wuss is not attractive because he is 24/7 available for her.

Your unavailability won't affect her attraction for you if she isn't interested.

Suspens said:

Your unavailability won't affect her attraction for you if she isn't interested.

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I'm talking about women who have a high level of interest in you.

Well then in that case it might actually backfire. Reciprocate her efforts on a 1/2 basis.

You will never lose value by being too busy or too aloof. I mean, she might give up hope that she can have you but this doesn't mean that she doesn't want you anymore and if you call her after a few weeks or months, you will be even more valuable in her eyes.

The rule of scarcity is powerful.

Why does this have to be about withdrawal v ****y funny? Surely you can be both. Scarce and (genuine) ****y and funny when she sees you. Who here is advising men to give a woman all their attention anyway?

^^ I agree, was David D the one who first coined the term ****y n' funny? If he did, he always said it WASN'T everything anyway...nor is being unavailable either.

On a side note I personally think alot of people don't actaully know what ****y n' funny is anyway. Most guys think it means saying something to make girls laugh...

I feel like being ****y is sort of part of the essence of being a man. You should basically get to the point where you can take a reasonable amount of pride in yourself.

The main point I get out of this topic is as a man to respect yourself first. That means if she is not showing you the proper interest, withdraw accordingly. However being C&F and all of the other game tactics will need to be applied to generate attraction. To go in without performing simple basics of attraction will get you nowhere.

Here is the practical application that I get from the OP:

1) End dates early in the beginning.
2) Only call/text to set up dates, or when truly necessary to respond to the girl's texts.
3) Only meet up with a girl, at MAXIMUM, once a week early on.

Last girl I dated, before my current set, was a girl that I knew from church. So when I would go out with her, I would then (typically) have to see her at church, too -- which resulted in breaking the once-a-week rule. Seeing her too often made it difficult to be scarce. I think that was a major problem (although not the only one) with why she eventually flaked out on me.

It seems like most of the guys on here who make threads asking for advice also have violated the once-a-week rule.

Suspens said:

Your unavailability won't affect her attraction for you if she isn't interested.

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JimProphetMGTOW said:

The main point I get out of this topic is as a man to respect yourself first. That means if she is not showing you the proper interest, withdraw accordingly...

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I've had this problem for the longest time, I see comments quite a lot here saying "you can do x or x all you want but if a girl has low interest in you there's nothing you can do" etc, etc...

As far as I'm concerned this is a fallacy, the best way I can describe this is like saying in the context of car racing "it doesn't matter if you drive the fastest or have the best handling, if you're not first you'll never win the race."

Surely driving the fastest and have the best handle on the car is what makes you win the race in the first place?

Or rather, surely being ****y n' funny and being non-commital are part of what makes a woman have high ineterest in the first place?

Yes, it's impossible to attract every woman, but why would you want to?

Obsidian said:

Here is the practical application that I get from the OP:

1) End dates early in the beginning.
2) Only call/text to set up dates, or when truly necessary to respond to the girl's texts.
3) Only meet up with a girl, at MAXIMUM, once a week early on.

Last girl I dated, before my current set, was a girl that I knew from church...Seeing her too often made it difficult to be scarce. I think that was a major problem (although not the only one) with why she eventually flaked out on me.

It seems like most of the guys on here who make threads asking for advice also have violated the once-a-week rule.

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Since, I'm here I'll comment on this too.

IMO the number one reason girls flake is because men get them to invest too much too early.

In my experience women get involved with two types of men 1) Lover and 2) provider. In my experience providing little commitment puts you in "lover" category and providing too much commitment puts you in the "provider" category. If a woman switches on her "provider" radar she will automatically (unconciously) play hard-to-get.

I honestly believe behaving in a certain way and even saying some words will cause women to switch on their "provider" radar.

Words and behaviours that cause women to switch on their provider radar: Complimenting them (especially early on), asking for their number (in my experience even saying the word number, I say "digits" now, I'm not kidding), calling instead of texting (atleast initially), going on dates, sometimes even using the word "date", going to restaurants, cinemas etc (typical date locations), planning dates in advance, going on dates longer than 30 minutes and generally acting too seriously.

Words and behaviours that cause women to put you in the "lover" category":
Having a reason to see a woman again which is more than just the way she looks, casually telling her to give you her "digits" (I guess it doesn't trigger a defensive reaction because most guys don't say this), texting her instead of calling (in my experience most women are cold on the phone when I called after I've gotten their number, they still regard you as a stranger), get them to go come to with you to a place you would've gone to regardless, meeting up with her the day you text her and spending a maximum of half an hour or less (preferrably telling her you have somewhere to go in an hour or so), telling them before hand that if things don't work out atleast she would make a good friend and generally not acting serious on the date at all.

To put simply the less investment you give a woman, the better it turns out overall.

DiegoSantori said:

In my experience, if you do more listening than talking and always give her the feeling that you have somewhere else more important to be, i.e. you are extremely busy, your time is valuable and you leave in the middle of the conversation, preferably at the height, it's far more attractive than some 'funny' phrases that make you look confident. I believe, you should focus far more on the mystery and make her feel your absence than obsess over conversation techniques.

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Sounds like you obsess over pretending to be mysterious and busy to gain attraction. No?

3agle 3yes said:

In my experience women get involved with two types of men 1) Lover and 2) provider. In my experience providing little commitment puts you in "lover" category and providing too much commitment puts you in the "provider" category. If a woman switches on her "provider" radar she will automatically (unconciously) play hard-to-get.

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Nice post! I couldn't have said it better.

I think, being C&F is just one of many ways to give her ATTENTION and, hate it or love it, you can even become an orbiter by doing too much C&F because you're giving her too much attention.

So, you might be more fun to be around than all the other orbiters feeding her compliments, but at the end of the day, "magic conversation tricks" are just another form of attention and don't protect you from the friendzone.

What protects you from the friendzone, however, is withdrawal. Nobody friendzones a guy appearing too busy for day-to-day socializing. Nobody friendzones a guy who, wherever he is, has somewhere else more important to be.

DiegoSantori said:

Nice post! I couldn't have said it better.

I think, being C&F is just one of many ways to give her ATTENTION and, hate it or love it, you can even become an orbiter by doing too much C&F because you're giving her too much attention.

So, you might be more fun to be around than all the other orbiters feeding her compliments, but at the end of the day, "magic conversation tricks" are just another form of attention and don't protect you from the friendzone.

What protects you from the friendzone, however, is withdrawal. Nobody friendzones a guy appearing too busy for day-to-day socializing. Nobody friendzones a guy who, wherever he is, has somewhere else more important to be.

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While you are withdrawing apppearing to be busy pretending to be somewhere else, another guy is making her wet sending you to the friendzone. Why pretend to be busy or important? Make life changes so you CAN be busy and important. It will greatly help to improve your life.

Why is ****y funny being equated to giving someone attention? This thread is about withdrawal and the effects it has. ****y/funny has no place in the discussion.

3agle 3yes said:

I've had this problem for the longest time, I see comments quite a lot here saying "you can do x or x all you want but if a girl has low interest in you there's nothing you can do" etc, etc...

As far as I'm concerned this is a fallacy, the best way I can describe this is like saying in the context of car racing "it doesn't matter if you drive the fastest or have the best handling, if you're not first you'll never win the race."

Surely driving the fastest and have the best handle on the car is what makes you win the race in the first place?

Or rather, surely being ****y n' funny and being non-commital are part of what makes a woman have high ineterest in the first place?

Yes, it's impossible to attract every woman, but why would you want to?

Click to expand...

Attention withdrawal is a 'tactic' used after the initial attraction phase. That was a rather bad example.

A muscular, 195CM tall viking with a rock-hard c0cka , wearing tight pants has a higher chance to attract a HB10 than someone who, umm, simply does not pay attention to a HB9.

Suspens said:

...A muscular, 195CM tall viking with a rock-hard c0cka , wearing tight pants has a higher chance to attract a HB10 than someone who, umm, simply does not pay attention to a HB9.

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I'm not quite sure what you mean, or rather what part of my quote you were referring to.

I will add to my previous posts though, by saying I don't recommend anyone use "tactics" by pretending to be busy or any other fakery.

The best advice I can ever give a man who wants to improve with women is to understand that you don't have to have the goal of banging every attractive woman you see, you CAN actually have friendships with them without doing any thing physical.

Many guys learning to improve with women have bad social skills and hardly any female friends, every woman they interact with they see as a "potential bang" and they ignore less attractive women who might have a bit more about them.

That's because, unfortunately, there are many guys who hate women and deep down despise them.

I've gone to clubs where I've had women I just met attempting to hook me up with other women and outright cheer me on throughout the night.

Not only will having attractive women as friends introduce you to MORE attractive women but it will make you more casual and less attached.

Above all else we should be engaging and genuinely outgoing people. You know, like ACTUALLY having something else to do rather than using it as a tactic to lure them and ACTUALLY breaking social conventions because you are above them.