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Question On What's Going On

Tenacity

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So here's the thing, with the way my work schedule is and life in general, I don't think I will ever be able to obtain a totally CLEAN diet (one that involves counting calories, no junk food at all, eating 6 small meals a day, etc.)

But I thought the pattern that I developed would be efficient but I have GAINED 20 lbs over the last 3 months, from 177lbs - 182lbs to just over 200 lbs right now. The muscle definition is still there and I have only had a 4 pack, the bottom abs were never developed, but the weight shows me at over 200lbs and I can feel additional fat deposits along my sides.

Here's what I eat over a 24 hour period:

- A Subway Footlong on Wheat bread, turkey, ham and 1 piece of bacon, no cheese. Then I load it with lettuce, onions and green peppers along with Olive Oil.

- The Footlong is spread out over 2 meals within 10-13 hours. So I'll eat a 6 inch of it at let's say 1:00 p.m. and the other half at 7:00 p.m. With each footlong meal I have a small handful of Baked Chips and 1 chocolate chip cookie, with about 3 bottles of water.

- Then I would do about 1 Protein Shake and also use Apple Juice to cut it with because I can't drink it straight.

So over a 24 hour period it would be:

7 a.m. - Protein Shake with Apple Juice

11 a.m. - Subway 6 inch with chips

6:00 p.m. - Subway 6 inch with chips

Midnight - Protein Shake with Apple Juice

On some days I would buy a whole Boston Market chicken to replace the Subway meals, I would eat a half a chicken during each meal with a side of Corn.

I have been doing this for about 3 months and notice the weight GAIN. When I wasn't doing this, I was still following this eating schedule but I would have Mcdonalds meals in there of a small fry and 8 piece nuggets, or I would make a fish or chicken small fried meal at home.

Based on the last 3 months it appears as though when I was eating the fried meals I kept my weight down at the 177-182 range which is where I want to be. But when I switched to the Subway and Boston Market ones I gained the weight as noted.

Does ANYBODY have any suggestions on this?
 

Bible_Belt

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Too many carbs and refined sugars, not enough fiber. Unless you're doing legit high-intensity cardio and eat simple carbs afterward, sugar is basically the devil. If you want apple juice, eat an apple. The fiber in the apple slows down your absorption of the sugar; otherwise it's a big insulin whammy that ends up as fat. Corn is high in sugar. Chips are junk food even if they are baked. And no one who wants to lose fat should be eating cookies.

The fried food had more fat, which filled you up. Fiber will do the same thing without the calories. Some high carb foods like brown rice are ok, because of the massive amount of fiber in them. It fills you up a long time and keeps the carbs from being stored as fat. Try to find vegetables you like, especially if you can eat them raw. Dip them in your favorite salad dressing to make you eat more. Most salad dressing is junk, but once again, it's compromised by the fiber in the raw vegetable. If you eat high-fiber foods, you can eat as much as you want. They'll fill you up quickly and make you feel full for much longer.

Overindulgence in refined carbs will also feed bad bacteria like candida that live in your body. Candida can fvck with your thyroid, which messes with hormone levels, which make your body store fat instead of burning it.
 

Tenacity

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BB,

Thanks a lot. Let me look into this. See the issue is that I work so much and I really haven't developed a strategy for being very strict with the eating procedures as far as counting calories, eating every 6 hours, etc.

On top of this, I just don't have a "taste" for many foods. The things I like to eat that would be considered a "form" of healthy listings are:

- Chicken
- Fish
- Shrimp
- Lobster
- Steaks

- Corn
- Green Beans

- Subway Turkey and Ham sandwich I listed above

I take the ON Whey Protein and the only reason I use it with Apple Juice is because without the Apple Juice I wouldn't be able to drink it. I keep a cup of Apple Juice on the side and sip the Protein Shake and then follow it up with the Apple Juice. I can't drink the protein just straight because all of the protein shakes are horrible in taste, the apple juice allows me to eliminate the taste.

How do you suggest I should restructure the eating procedure considering the foods I listed above that I like to eat that would fall under the healthy eating category?
 

Tenacity

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Also supplements I'm taking:

- ON Whey

- Vitamin World Omega 3

- Vitamin World Ultra Man (switching to Opti-Men)

- Bodybuilding.com's Green Tea Extract

- Fiber Pills (taking these because I actually do NOT get a lot of fiber in my normal eating habits and it led to me having issues with bowel movement before so I take these to supplement)
 

Bible_Belt

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I think everyone here would tell you that you're better off with whole milk mixed into the shakes instead of apple juice. Milk has sugar, too, but it is offset by the fat and protein in it. You could also look for a protein product in bar form. Obviously, read the label, a lot of them are high in sugar.

I'm not a fan of supplements. It's better to work on the food you consume. Find a farmer's market, and learn to cook. It's not that hard to stir-fry vegetables. I use olive oil and a lot of fresh garlic. I try to have fresh jalapeno peppers around, because I like hot food. Get some farm eggs and try them if you can; they are much better than the typical factory-farmed eggs. The reason you think you don't like many foods is that you haven't had good food. My family has a small farm; I know our green beans are better than any you've ever had. I doubt you've ever had a real tomato, either.

Do you like Chinese food? Some menu items from a typical cheap Chinese place are a lot healthier than Subway's giant carb rolls, as long as you avoid the high-sugar/deep fried stuff like General Tsao Chicken. I get "twice cooked pork" which is mostly vegetables. Get brown rice if you can, or just skip the rice. The Chinese way of cooking is a good model - they stir fry rice and vegetables, and then cut up whatever meat they have in it, mostly for flavor. That's the way to get fiber, not from a supplement. Lentils and beans are another natural high-fiber option.
 

Tenacity

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Well, I hate milk, if I'm not able to drink juice with the Protein Shake there's no way I'm going to be able to drink a Protein Shake.

What I'm confused on here is how does the Subway sandwich I'm eating, along with let's say the apple juice I drink on the side of the Protein Shake, cause me to gain weight? I would see if I had cheese and mayo all over the Subway sandwich, and I would see if I was drinking a soda with the Protein Shake, but I'm trying to understand just what's going on here.

I'm still in healthy shape and when I take my shirt off you still see muscle definition, it's that I'm noticing the additional fat deposits at the bottom of the abs. Plus the scale has gone from 177 - 182 to over 200 lbs. Could it be muscle that's the reason?

I read through these forums as well as BodyBuilding.com and it gets so confusing because you have on one hand a list of conventional "healthy foods" like chicken, fish, turkey, wheat bread, and whey protein. I mix all of these into my diets, then I would hear someone say you can't eat the bread, or don't eat the corn, and it's like how do you keep up with all of this?

In addition, I like to get on something and stick with it, I believe in a lifestyle change. I know I can't go through life and NOT eat chicken, corn, fish, steak, etc. that's just unattainable.

Sorry for the rant lol, but the fitness world is like this MAZE of do XYZ one week, then next week you shouldn't do XYZ. I read something recently that said eating MEAT is bad, and taking multi-vitamins/omega 3 fish oil was bad. It's something new every week.
 

marmel75

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At most, naturally you can gain 2 pounds of muscle a month...that's if everything is dialed in...training, diet, sleep, etc...

So that would be 6 pounds max at 100% efficiency. You likely aren't operating at 100% efficiency, so its probably more like 4 lbs of muscle...add in maybe another 3-4 lbs of water/glycogen and you have 8 lbs of LBM...the other 12 lbs, well you know what that is, and its not good
 

AttackFormation

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Tenacity said:
eating 6 small meals a day
Stop believing bullsh!t myths like this, do your research on it.

Does ANYBODY have any suggestions on this?
Eat slow-digesting carbs and fibers, it stabilises your blood sugar level throughout the day. The cornerstone of my "diet" (I've never calorie counted or anything else) is oats cooked in milk (I think it's tastelessly disgusting when cooked in water but if you hate milk...) with blue- and raspberries and a little honey. It's quick and easy to make (pour everything into the pot, put the stove on, steer the porrage so it doesn't get burnt in the bottom, wait for 5-10 minutes), cheap, healthy and tastes pretty good too (especially if you don't prefer spicy food unlike me).

The reason why you see something new every week is because there's so much information that is either well-meaningly taken out of its intended context, straight out false for whatever reason, twisted to suit the purposes of whoever is repeating it etc. You have to do your research.

Also as marmel75 said, there's no way in h3ll you've gained such an amount of muscle in that time, I'm sorry bro.
 

Tenacity

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Do you guys know where I can find a list of the foods I should eat? I'm talking not a meal plan but just a list of "here's all of the foods you can consume in terms of meats, veggies, the right carbs, etc."

Cause like I said, I'm confused at this point. I didn't think the Subway sandwich I was eating would be bad for me?

When I scroll through this forum, BB.com and the internet in general it's hard to find a list of here's what you SHOULD eat and from that list I can create my own meal plan based on what I can stomach to eat.
 

Bible_Belt

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http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

That list is based on overall health, and not body building, but it's still a good one.

If you're doing high-intensity cardio, carbs will build muscle, even simple carbs. I have seen plenty of mma fighters eat garbage food and still have very little fat on them. I used to have a 48-oz Gatorade and a six pack of beer after training every night, and I never had better abs.
 

Tenacity

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Well, my exercise routine right now is non-cardio because I wanted to focus on building muscle. I'm taking ON Optimum Nutriton Whey, about 2 meals a day for a total of about 150 proteins. I didn't SEE this in the protein but do you think there's weight gainer in the protein shake? A couple years ago I tried weight gainer and it had the same result that I have right now with the BULKY/BUFF look. I don't look fat, I look bulky like I'm on a bulking program.

I'm wondering if I should limit the protein shake to one protein shake meal a day instead of two? In addition, on the link you provided everything I'm eating right now with Subway and Boston Market are considered HEALTHY foods except the cookies I have on the side, the baked chips and the apple juice. But as mentioned, I think I'm eating the CLEANEST I could possibly eat right now considering I focus on staying on something for the long term, not short term "diets".
 

Ronaldo7

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Lol. You are eating the cleanest you can? People like you shouldn't even get into this if you aren't committed to making a change. Baked chips, cookies, Subway? Really? If you are content with lying to yourself, keep doing what you are doing. It is CLEARLY working for you. You make too many excuses why you can't fulfill the goal you are trying to reach. "I don't like this and i don't like that either" You know what you have to eat to obtain the results you desire. Vegetables, carbs [simple/complex] (depending on the time of day), and your daily intake of protein. Have the protein shake in water, if you can't stand milk.
 

Tenacity

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Ronaldo,

I understand, but when I say I'm eating the best I can I'm referring to a long term approach. I could of course only eat certain foods to prepare for a competition or for a performance or something, but my approach is developing an eating style that works for the long term.

I would really like to know if you guys can tell me what's wrong with the eating structure I have in total? I asked BB for a link that he has for the list of foods that are healthy, that's the same list I found some time ago that he posted and if you look at my eating schedule it's tailored to that list for the most part.

The baked chips and cookies are a very small part of the monthly eating structure, the apple juice is light apple juice and even cut with water, so it's not even consumed as much. Then I would have probably about 3-4 cheat days a month. The vast majority of the consumption monthly is the ON Whey, The Boston Market Chicken, corn, and the Subway sandwich with the Turkey, Ham, strip of bacon on Wheat, then loaded with the veggies. That's what I would say is 80% of the consumption, the other 20% is the handful of baked chips with the Subway, a cookie with the Subway, the light apple juice and the cheat days.

Considering that I focus on a long term strategy, this is an eating structure I can MAINTAIN from now (31) until I die. So that's what I'm asking you guys, what is unhealthy about this as a whole? I'm not really getting any concrete answers. I UNDERSTAND that it's not 100% efficient in terms of TOTALLY not only eating healthy but tracking this, measuring that, etc. etc. But again, there's no way I can STAY on something like that for the long term.

Do you think the ON Whey has created a weight gainer effect?
 

mrRuckus

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Just avoid anything you currently consider to be junk food and then minimize your consumption of bread. Fruit juice is just a glass of sugar that happens to have some vitamins in it too. Consume quantities of meat, but lunch meat and other things full of preservatives and nitrates like hot dogs aren't very high quality. Carb sources should focus on and generally be considered best when they are as little processed as possible. e.g. Beans or rice over bread (especially white), vegetables and fruits over cereal.

Your ON Whey if it just says whey isn't weight gainer in the way they refer to it commercially. I doubt it has more than 2-3g carbs per serving or 1g of fat.




Tenacity said:
I'm not really getting any concrete answers. I UNDERSTAND that it's not 100% efficient in terms of TOTALLY not only eating healthy
100% is impossible, not only because it's unrealistic, but there is no full consensus on what that even means. There is a lot of quibbling on individual things, but I tried to lay out a bit of generalities that can avoid a lot of worrying about the who cares last 5% when the important 95% is followed.

150g of protein is too little unless you are 150 lbs or less. If you are building muscle, there is little argument in the "industry" or "culture" against that you need at least 1g/lb per day. There's argument how much is actually more beneficial above that amount though.
 

Bible_Belt

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So the Subway got Jared, their messiah of corporate profits, to tell you their food was healthy and promoted weight loss, then you ate a bunch of it and put on fat, and yet you still cannot bring yourself to question the Gospel of Jared? You've been misled by the false prophet of profit.

If you want a no-effort diet, try Atkins. A triple cheeseburger without the bun is probably better for you than Subway. At least it will fill you up. If you want Atkins to work, you have to make yourself eat real vegetables, or else you'll be miserably constipated. But then again, any reasonable diet would work if you carried around a bag of broccoli with you. The fiber is the key.

I spent this morning selling vegetables at a farmer's market. My stuff and subway's should not both be called "vegetables." My customers, and those of the other vendors, stand in the rain on a Saturday morning to get to buy what I sell. They've discovered what food is supposed to be like, and they understand that it's worth the effort.
 

Tenacity

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Guys yes, I agree, I think the Subway bread might be doing it. It's either the Subway or it's the ON Whey, the only thing I've done different was to increase the eating of the Subway and increase my On Whey intake before I started seeing the weight gain.

I don't think it's the ON Whey because I don't see anything that would symbolize it and plus I've been on this protein for 2 and a half years now and didn't have any issues.

It's the Subway bread that's doing this. It's so weird because I thought I was eating right.

I'm going to make some adjustments and BB I will also check out some of the natural selections you mentioned. Thanks everyone that helped with this.
 

Ronaldo7

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Tenacity said:
Ronaldo,

I understand, but when I say I'm eating the best I can I'm referring to a long term approach. I could of course only eat certain foods to prepare for a competition or for a performance or something, but my approach is developing an eating style that works for the long term.

I would really like to know if you guys can tell me what's wrong with the eating structure I have in total? I asked BB for a link that he has for the list of foods that are healthy, that's the same list I found some time ago that he posted and if you look at my eating schedule it's tailored to that list for the most part.

The baked chips and cookies are a very small part of the monthly eating structure, the apple juice is light apple juice and even cut with water, so it's not even consumed as much. Then I would have probably about 3-4 cheat days a month. The vast majority of the consumption monthly is the ON Whey, The Boston Market Chicken, corn, and the Subway sandwich with the Turkey, Ham, strip of bacon on Wheat, then loaded with the veggies. That's what I would say is 80% of the consumption, the other 20% is the handful of baked chips with the Subway, a cookie with the Subway, the light apple juice and the cheat days.

They shouldn't be a part at all. Are you being serious? Go on MyFitnessPal and see if cookies or chips are to be included in any serious diet. Eat an apple. No added sugar. 3-4 cheat days? Really? How much worse do you eat in terms of calories? It is better to have home cooked chicken. You'll be sure nothing else is added on for taste. Those calories do add up. Replace corn for broccoli, lettuce, cucumbers or spinach. Eliminate the Subway sandwich as well. The ham goes too. And bacon? Be serious.

the other 20% is the handful of baked chips with the Subway, a cookie with the Subway, the light apple juice and the cheat days.
Read again what you wrote so you can fully comprehend how wasteful that is. 20% of your diet is junk AND THEN you also have cheat days? If you are serious about this, you cannot seriously believe those things are part of any diet.


Considering that I focus on a long term strategy, this is an eating structure I can MAINTAIN from now (31) until I die. So that's what I'm asking you guys, what is unhealthy about this as a whole? I'm not really getting any concrete answers. I UNDERSTAND that it's not 100% efficient in terms of TOTALLY not only eating healthy but tracking this, measuring that, etc. etc. But again, there's no way I can STAY on something like that for the long term.

Do you think the ON Whey has created a weight gainer effect?
Whey is just an aid to help you meet your daily intake. It shouldn't replace real food.

It's the Subway bread that's doing this. It's so weird because I thought I was eating right.
You are either a troll or incredibly daft to realize this just now.
 

Tenacity

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Ronaldo,

As I said to you before, my approach is for a long term eating plan not for a short term diet. It's unrealistic for me to eat 100% clean for the long term, so my focus is on eating over the course of a month at least 70% - 80% what's considered health related foods and then 20% - 30% what's considered not. Within that entire 20% - 30% are my cheat days, the cookies, the baked chips and the apple juice. If you can do better than me, and eat 100% clean, all power to you. I can't realistically eat any better than that and stay on the eating plan for a long time, and I haven't read any major eating plan or diet book that said you had to eat 100% clean all the time.

My question was in relation to the weight gain that was creating a "bulky/buff" look, and I think the Subway bread is causing it for some strange reason. The reason I wasn't under the impression that it was Subway before, was because the sandwich I eat from there is not considered an "unhealthy" sandwich. By every standard I've researched, it's noted as a healthy sandwich, it's damn near a veggie sandwich.
 

Ronaldo7

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Tenacity said:
Ronaldo,

As I said to you before, my approach is for a long term eating plan not for a short term diet. It's unrealistic for me to eat 100% clean for the long term, so my focus is on eating over the course of a month at least 70% - 80% what's considered health related foods and then 20% - 30% what's considered not. Within that entire 20% - 30% are my cheat days, the cookies, the baked chips and the apple juice. If you can do better than me, and eat 100% clean, all power to you. I can't realistically eat any better than that and stay on the eating plan for a long time, and I haven't read any major eating plan or diet book that said you had to eat 100% clean all the time.

My question was in relation to the weight gain that was creating a "bulky/buff" look, and I think the Subway bread is causing it for some strange reason. The reason I wasn't under the impression that it was Subway before, was because the sandwich I eat from there is not considered an "unhealthy" sandwich. By every standard I've researched, it's noted as a healthy sandwich, it's damn near a veggie sandwich.
The bread is causing it obviously. It is all discipline and willpower. Some have it, some don't.
 

Tenacity

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Yes, I heard about those fasting methods as well, from what I understand it helps to cleanse on the inside as well as control hunger, correct?

Ronaldo do you mind posting what you eat on a monthly basis? I wanted to see since you are promoting a 100% clean approach, how do you manage to do that consistently each month and what foods you choose, etc. Since you are preaching this theory, I want to see if you are actually putting it into action. I personally don't know anybody that eats 100% clean and some of them have competed in Body Building competitions.
 
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