Girl I'm dating has abandonment issues

So I met this girl back at the beginning of November. When we met, she had just broken up with her live-in boyfriend of two years at the end of August, and it was a messy break-up (she found that girls had been texting him naked pictures of themselves, he was staying out all night drinking, not telling her where he was etc.). She also told me that she struggles with abandonment issues pretty early on (her mother died last year, her father died 7 years ago, her b/f left her, a previous boyfriend was paralyzed in an accident) – and she was struggling to not believe that everyone she loves will either die or abandon her.

On my end, I ended an almost seven year relationship this past summer, but have mostly moved on, so the lingering baggage of my own is minimal, if any.

The relationship started off very well for the first month. We had some amazing dates and great chemistry. She was slow with getting intimate, but we had sex at about week three (sex was somewhat restrained... I tried a bit of dirty talk and she polite asked me not to). Since then, sex was very sporatic. I was beginning to think that maybe she didn’t like what I was giving her, but she noted that she has never gotten so wet for anymore before and said that things were great, but she just needed to get comfortable. She was just afraid of getting too attached too soon and then getting hurt again. She’s also commented that my kindness towards her makes her uncomfortable because, as she puts it, “it’s not what I know.” I don’t think I have been AFC with her but when she would talk/grieve about her mother dying I gave her comfort and affection, whereas she said her last boyfriend would tell her to stop acting crazy by crying all the time.

Anyway, in the last month there has been a lot of “push-pull” type stuff going on/comments made by her. We spent a weekend away, and then she picked a fight on the ride home about something stupid, said “maybe we should take some space”. I kept my cool. She then messaged me the next morning and said she was sorry, and asked if she could come over. She did, and we had sex.

Then last Saturday, after a great date out, she came back to my place, stopped at the door, and said that she didn’t want to spend the night because it scares her. The next morning, she texted me “please have faith in how much I like you, I really want to be with you, I just need time, please be patient with me”. I have started giving her space and not messaging/talking with her as much this week, and last night, after a phone conversation, she texted “it sucks that we have to force it now…. Guess we just don’t have much to talk about anymore… that’s ok…maybe we just need start over time? Sucks… seems harder now”.

Giving her space/”taking two steps back” seems to have the opposite effect on her. I am willing to put in the extra work to make things work for her, despite her abandonment issues... because I think she would make a great partner once we got over that hump.

Just wondering where you guys think I should go from here (aside from NEXT) to get her interest level back up?

GET THE F**K OUT!

Do not pass go do not collect $200

Been there done that it will get worse and there is no helping her.
As surely as the sun rises in the morning you will end up in a world of hurt....

PeakIV said:

GET THE F**K OUT!

Do not pass go do not collect $200

Been there done that it will get worse and there is no helping her.
As surely as the sun rises in the morning you will end up in a world of hurt....

Click to expand...

what he said ^^^ hes right

All I can say is that you'd better be using a condom.

PeakIV said:

GET THE F**K OUT!

Do not pass go do not collect $200

Been there done that it will get worse and there is no helping her.
As surely as the sun rises in the morning you will end up in a world of hurt....

Click to expand...

Peak is spot on.

This girl is severely damaged and is about to open up a firestorm in your life.

You need to withdraw and become "busy". Be cordial but too busy to see her. If she presses you, say she's right, we need space.

bacchus, I'm being deadly serious here. She will never make a good partner, she will always bring up drama and issues and make your life a living hell. You've got to believe us and get out now. Look up the BPD thread on this site. I have a sneaking suspicion...

Listen to Peak... "As surely as the sun rises in the morning...".

This thread has some excellent insight into women with issues like yours:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=197705

Atam, thanks for your reply. I briefly considered BPD, but I think in her case it is just straight abandonment issues. She doesn't have the rage or promiscuity components... she is just sad and scared. I also personally know one of her ex boyfriends from 5 years ago (he is now married with kids and in love with his wife), and he said that she was a great girlfriend to him during their year of dating one another.

this is what i don't get. well i get it, but most men don't get or undersztand. this is something that women for the most part, understand

let's flip the script. as you guys know i have /had a pretty nasty crack cocaine habit that took a while to get over. not a habit an addiction is better stated. I relapsed probably..20 times before i really seriously got clean and stayed clean (will have 8 years on the 12th of feb thank god) anyway this is my point. lol, there were no women around saying "yeah, i met this guy and he's great and he's ambitious but he has crack cocaine issues, girls how do i help him with hsi crack cocaine issue"

they don't. they get the **** out. I had to fix my issues myself before i could get right. and yeah there are some women who will try to fix guys who are jerks who they want to make right but these women aren't right int he head anyway **** them i'm talking about well adjusted normal women.

you don't owe her ****. let her fix her own **** then get back to you.

Dear Bacchus...

You must put a LOT of effort into this thing!
Take her hand and tell her you will be patient and not give up on her!
You must keep the faith and stay convinced that the two of you can overcome this problem and live happily ever after, if you just work hard enough for it!
Whatever you do, no matter how tough it gets, you must not give up and keep fighting to overcome this problem together with her!
And THEN it will happen, I promise you!!



THEN........you will realize that you have to leave the girl behind... Coz no matter what you try, this "relationship" is gonna FAIL and you are gonna end up with a lot of HURT and FRUSTRATION.
You are just not able to see this now, coz you have already become too emotionally dependant on this girl and are unable to let go of her.
That's why you have to experience all the hurt and frustration first, it's the only thing strong enough to motivate you to break the emotional connection to her.

I wish you good luck, man. You'll definitely need it, where you're heading... But we'll be here to help you mend your broken heart afterwards. See you then...

Die Hard said:

Dear Bacchus...

You must put a LOT of effort into this thing!
Take her hand and tell her you will be patient and not give up on her!
You must keep the faith and stay convinced that the two of you can overcome this problem and live happily ever after, if you just work hard enough for it!
Whatever you do, no matter how tough it gets, you must not give up and keep fighting to overcome this problem together with her!
And THEN it will happen, I promise you!!



THEN........you will realize that you have to leave the girl behind... Coz no matter what you try, this "relationship" is gonna FAIL and you are gonna end up with a lot of HURT and FRUSTRATION.
You are just not able to see this now, coz you have already become too emotionally dependant on this girl and are unable to let go of her.
That's why you have to experience all the hurt and frustration first, it's the only thing strong enough to motivate you to break the emotional connection to her.

I wish you good luck, man. You'll definitely need it, where you're heading... But we'll be here to help you mend your broken heart afterwards. See you then...

Click to expand...

DIE HARD - bang on that was me!

I guarantee 99% of guys will not listen to a word of advice on this forum regarding these women, me included (yes I read the BPD threads 2 years ago) and still dived in for round 2.

99% of guys will do exactly as Die Hard says they will stay until they get to the THEN bit.

No Die Hard she is different , I know I can help, I know I can change her and make her see the light etc etc etc ....

I was not strong enough to pull away and like I said 99% of the other guys will do just as Die Hard says above and only when you get to the end bit,( the realisation bit), that you will be able to escape from the crazy world of oz.

It is the FOG (fear and guilt) that keeps you in, only when you realise this will you be able to pull away.

You recently got out of a 7-year relationship. Spin plates. This is the type that will eventually bring out your worst.

I see you asking what "you" need to do. This is really "her" problem. If you're cool with the push pull drama from her abandonment/intimacy problems, by all means stay with her. It will only get worse my friend. Girls like this work best with guys who are sociopathic (no emotions, no feelings, apathetic about everything). You're clearly not this guy or you wouldn't be posting here.

She has issues she needs to work through, and with you there, she can't work through them. Sadly, little girls like this will always find some pvssy-starved AFC sap to take care of them and listen to their problems and feel badly for them while preventing them from doing the hard work that is growing up.

What should you do? End it, and find a woman with a healthier emotional state.

Guess what? Her ex was right...this chick is f-ing crazy. Her so called "abandonment issues" are mental health issues and they will not magically disappear just because your're being patient. This chick is damaged goods and you are in white knight mode because she's sad and going through a difficult period in her life.

It may sound callous, but her problems are not your problem. If she was your wife of 10 years, it would be different. However, that's not the case; you just met her recently. As another poster said, most women would not stick around for a guy who fell falls on hard times. You don't need this bullsh*t in your life no matter how hot she may be.

bacchus said:

So I met this girl back at the beginning of November. When we met, she had just broken up with her live-in boyfriend of two years at the end of August, and it was a messy break-up (she found that girls had been texting him naked pictures of themselves, he was staying out all night drinking, not telling her where he was etc.). She also told me that she struggles with abandonment issues pretty early on (her mother died last year, her father died 7 years ago, her b/f left her, a previous boyfriend was paralyzed in an accident) – and she was struggling to not believe that everyone she loves will either die or abandon her.

On my end, I ended an almost seven year relationship this past summer, but have mostly moved on, so the lingering baggage of my own is minimal, if any.

The relationship started off very well for the first month. We had some amazing dates and great chemistry. She was slow with getting intimate, but we had sex at about week three (sex was somewhat restrained... I tried a bit of dirty talk and she polite asked me not to). Since then, sex was very sporatic. I was beginning to think that maybe she didn’t like what I was giving her, but she noted that she has never gotten so wet for anymore before and said that things were great, but she just needed to get comfortable. She was just afraid of getting too attached too soon and then getting hurt again. She’s also commented that my kindness towards her makes her uncomfortable because, as she puts it, “it’s not what I know.” I don’t think I have been AFC with her but when she would talk/grieve about her mother dying I gave her comfort and affection, whereas she said her last boyfriend would tell her to stop acting crazy by crying all the time.

Anyway, in the last month there has been a lot of “push-pull” type stuff going on/comments made by her. We spent a weekend away, and then she picked a fight on the ride home about something stupid, said “maybe we should take some space”. I kept my cool. She then messaged me the next morning and said she was sorry, and asked if she could come over. She did, and we had sex.

Then last Saturday, after a great date out, she came back to my place, stopped at the door, and said that she didn’t want to spend the night because it scares her. The next morning, she texted me “please have faith in how much I like you, I really want to be with you, I just need time, please be patient with me”. I have started giving her space and not messaging/talking with her as much this week, and last night, after a phone conversation, she texted “it sucks that we have to force it now…. Guess we just don’t have much to talk about anymore… that’s ok…maybe we just need start over time? Sucks… seems harder now”.

Giving her space/”taking two steps back” seems to have the opposite effect on her. I am willing to put in the extra work to make things work for her, despite her abandonment issues... because I think she would make a great partner once we got over that hump.

Just wondering where you guys think I should go from here (aside from NEXT) to get her interest level back up?

Click to expand...

Sir Bacchus- ohh how this sounds familiar. I've been with a girl for a year and a half now that has some of the same issues and says the exact same things your does.

First you need to read about borderline personality disorder and abandonment. Second this girl needs some professional help. Nothing you can do will "get her interest level back up". She has to fix herself first.

The whole push pull game and picking fights for no reason is her way of putting distance between you and her. When she starts to feel close to you she also starts to feel vulnerable. When those vulnerabilities become too great, she'll act out and do things to push you away.

These types have been let down by those who should have been there for them. Their coping mechanism is to never get too close to some one for they fear they will lose control and become hurt.

A part of her wants to have faith in you, but that survival instinct she has developed along the way won't allow it.

Its pretty easy to sit here and say throw her to the curb and those guys that say it are probably right. However, you shouldn't paint everybody with one brush stroke and only you know all the details and if she is worth being patient for.

The only thing I can say is don't lose track of who you are. When this thing starts to eat at your inner happiness, then you need to leave. Also, don't make things complicated so its difficult to cut ties when you need to.

She also needs to be willing to seek professional help.

Thanks so much for all the feedback guys... you have given me a lot of food for thought, and my next move is not one that I will be taking lightly!

She is in therapy right now and has been told that she has "Abandonment Lifetrap" - some overlap with BPD, but not the same thing (I have done a good amount of research). For those curious, the following book talks about abandonment lifetrap (along with other lifetraps) in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Y...8884077&sr=8-2&keywords=reinventing+your+life

Howie: It sounds like you're the only one still with your girl... have things gotten better, worse or stayed the same? Have you found that the sex gets more regular/less restrained? That's another sign that this girl doesn't have BPD - from reading other people's comments, it sounds like I should be getting marathon, animal-like sex to "hook me in"... when the opposite is true.

I am also looking inward to try to figure out why I am even bothering, and what the fact that I am contemplating sticking around says about me. Maybe I have some "white knight" issues of my own that I have to deal with...

origin138 said:

I see you asking what "you" need to do. This is really her problem.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This my friend, is the key dynamic that is wrong. This is where all men go wrong with crazees. This is what caused me 3.5 years of hell with my BPD. This, if you dont pay attention, will be your undoing........

bacchus said:

Thanks so much for all the feedback guys... you have given me a lot of food for thought, and my next move is not one that I will be taking lightly!

She is in therapy right now and has been told that she has "Abandonment Lifetrap" - some overlap with BPD, but not the same thing (I have done a good amount of research). For those curious, the following book talks about abandonment lifetrap (along with other lifetraps) in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Y...8884077&sr=8-2&keywords=reinventing+your+life

Howie: It sounds like you're the only one still with your girl... have things gotten better, worse or stayed the same? Have you found that the sex gets more regular/less restrained? That's another sign that this girl doesn't have BPD - from reading other people's comments, it sounds like I should be getting marathon, animal-like sex to "hook me in"... when the opposite is true.

I am also looking inward to try to figure out why I am even bothering, and what the fact that I am contemplating sticking around says about me. Maybe I have some "white knight" issues of my own that I have to deal with...

Click to expand...

Mr.bacchus

You'd better search this forum for the bpd threads to see what you are actually dealing with. From what I read, you need to educate yourself about cluster b chickies so you are prepared and know how to handle them. Most importantly, and take this to heart from someone who knows, you have to anticipate the behavior of a cluster b woman. You cannot allow yourself to be caught off guard. They can really fvck you up and if they do, it will be your own fault for allowing it to happen.

Luck to you.

Dear Bachus,
Mate she reads too many Pop Psychology Magazines....When she finds out how much the lovely caring people in the white suits charge for a bit of attention she will be back.....The Psycho-Babble Industry diagnose Abandonment Trap Syndrome?....Theirs is a business like any other,getting settled in the couch and asking if you have a condition,is like asking a Barber if you need a haircut......should they find you just a regular even very successful Guy,there is always Aspergers,you have to be quite unusual not to fit in that suit.......I am sure she has her nice points,but is it really worth the bother of this constant attention seeking?

bacchus said:

Howie: It sounds like you're the only one still with your girl... have things gotten better, worse or stayed the same? Have you found that the sex gets more regular/less restrained? That's another sign that this girl doesn't have BPD - from reading other people's comments, it sounds like I should be getting marathon, animal-like sex to "hook me in"... when the opposite is true.

I am also looking inward to try to figure out why I am even bothering, and what the fact that I am contemplating sticking around says about me. Maybe I have some "white knight" issues of my own that I have to deal with...

Click to expand...

Since she started meeting with her counselor things have changed for the better. Her whole attitude is more positive. She does a better job of keeping herself grounded. She still has her "episodes", however they aren't as dramatic and happen less frequently. She realizes whats going on when her hamster wheel gets out of control and tries to control it. Before she never did. She isn't on any meds either. I'm thankful that she realizes the benefits of getting counseling and is enthusiastic about it. If she didn't I wouldn't be sticking around.

As far as the sex goes, its always been great and she never says no. She can't get enough.

With my girl, all of this is about learned behaviors. Her acting out is her coping mechanism she developed at a young age. Unfortunately, she didn't learn the right skill sets growing up. Its what happens when you grow up in a divorced family unit and your mother is an alcoholic.

Her counselor is teaching her to replace her faulty ways that cause chaos in her life with correct methods & skills that lead to a happy self. So far its working.

I'm pretty patient, rational, calm, tend to look at the big picture and not afraid to be a hard a$$ and issue some tough love. This helps in dealing with her. I also set boundaries, let her know what I expect, and do what I said I'd do if she oversteps those boundaries.

Will my deal workout? I hope so and believe it is possible, but I'm only part of the equation. I do know that if I throw in the towel, I will walk away with myself still intact knowing I made a solid effort in making things work. I will also have learned more about myself and what to stay away from next time. There are too many people that want to throw their hands up in the air and quit when the road gets a little rough. I've always seen that the things in life that come easy are never worth having. Thats whats wrong with this country......we are the throw away society who looks for the easy route every time.

My sister went thru a lengthy period where she put my parents thru absolute hell. She was into drugs, guys with rap sheets, stripping, partying, and crashing cars. My parents would pay her college tuition and she would end up flunking all of her classes. The only time she would contact me was if she needed something. After 5yrs of the constant let downs and disappointments I gave up on her, and so did my dad. But my mom never did. My mom hung in there. Eventually my sister came out of it, and as a result her and my mom have a relationship that is stronger than ever before. My sister is greatful that somebody was there for her when she was ready to start acting right. She has 2 college degrees now and owns a home. My point is don't give up on something that is worth keeping.

Even backbreaker was able to change his ways and escape the life of a crack addict. And I'll bet somewhere in his story, there was someone that helped him along the way.

Everybody needs somebody. Our world is becoming too selfish and self-centered. If you have the qualities and skills to help somebody else then try and make the world a better place. And for those of you who think this is some white knight, captain save a ho propaganda, think again.

I would simply email her and tell her this......you write this so that way she can't whine and cry like she could if you did it over the phone.


Hi xxxxx,
After your most recent text message it got me thinking about you, me, and us. I really like you, like hanging out with you, and I appreciate our time together. I have also tried to be as understanding and considerate of your past relationship trust issues as I can and would like nothing better than for you to get past all of that so that we can move on to something that I feel could be great.

But at the same time. I am not a psychologist. I am not a therapist. I am not one of your girlfriends. I do have my limits as far as what I am able to tolerate while in a relationship. And I am a guy who has needs and wants while being in said relationship. It seems as if you are either unsure or unable to fulfill those needs right now, for whatever reasons. I don't blame you. I am not upset with you. It just is. So I am taking the step of calling things off for now with you. If/when you feel as though you are 100% able to commit to us, let me know and as long as I am not involved with anyone else and my feelings for you are still the same, I would be very happy resuming where we left off, but with an even better jumping in point for us to take things to an even more wonderful level.

Take care,
Bacchus