Guys are shi**y too

After becoming friends (and dating) women you start to realize that a lot of men are just weird. I ask the women in my life about their dating stories and they tell me. As a guy you will not believe the odd behavior that many men exhibit.

What we fail to realize as DJ's and redpillers is that most men do not dedicate their lives to self improvement. Most men are not self aware or introspective . They do not constantly try to improve flaws in their personality. This contributes to a lot of men being very socially maladjusted. Women go on dates with these men and its a nightmare for the women. The common types of weird guys that women run into fall into a few categories. They include:

1.) The overly attached guy. He is usually a blue pill guy. This guy reeks of desperation and insecurity. Many women go on a date with a guy and he wont stop calling them afterwards.

This obviously kills attraction. Another common problem is that they will give the guy their number, but then have the guy flip out when they cancel the date. Sometimes the reasons the girl cancels are legit. GUYS DONT EVER FLIP OUT ON A FLAKE. THE WORST MOVE EVER. Ignore it.

2.) The guy who is dumb as rocks. We often think of women as not very intellectual (most are not). But we would be surprised at how uninteresting and dumb the average guy is too. There are still more anti intellectual women but the percentage of intellectual men is not too much higher. I would say 40% of men are thinkers while only 20% of women.

3.) The Alphas that pump and dump is another type of guy that women commonly date. This can turn a good girl into a jaded person. He is messing it up for us good regular guys who want to commit. I have a foreign ex gf that told me she hated American dating culture because of the pump and dump.

She said " you can have a perfectly good night with a guy. And then he does not call you back". She states that its different in Europe where ONS often turn into relationships. We have to realize that humping and dumping has real psychological damage on women.

4.) The guy who cant dress. Most American guys don't put much thought into their appearance.

My point is not to be a white knight. I hate white knights. I am just giving a balanced objective look at the current dating market. Most average looking girls run into these problems when dating. Most guys really are kinda losers. Most men are not plugged into the manosphere. The manosphere gives us a false idea that men are awesome. This is a pre selected group of introspective men on these forums. Most men are not like us.

The women i do not feel sorry for are the attractive women. They have enough suitors that they usually do have quality men trying to date them. They are exempt from this list. But the average plain jane looking girls have a less then ideal pool of men to pick from.

My good female friend has some horror dating stories.
From the guy who wet the bed - and left the next morning before she woke up, to the guy who disrobed and showed her he had a butt plug in situ.
That's the sort of weird behaviour that jades women too.

You don't know about men from talking to women.

You know what they told you about men, filtered by their perception.

Greasy Pig said:

My good female friend has some horror dating stories.
From the guy who wet the bed - and left the next morning before she woke up, to the guy who disrobed and showed her he had a butt plug in situ.
That's the sort of weird behaviour that jades women too.

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lolol butt plug wow....yeh man i can definitely believe that. I have also heard of people getting so drunk that they piss the bed after a ONS. Guys would be shocked if they knew about the weirdos out there. We as men should not be as solopstic as women are. Dating after a while leaves women and men very jaded. Its a freak show for both sexes.

Tictac said:

You don't know about men from talking to women.

You know what they told you about men, filtered by their perception.

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You are right. You have to take a women's story with a grain of salt. But in many cases i actually know these guys as associates. Their odd dating behavior has been confirmed. I'm also pretty decent at filtering out when the girl is twisting the truth. In other cases i have seen the text messages of these men. A lot of dudes are weird bruh...

Interesting post in regards to number 3, some women don't know when to quit though

Pandora said:

Most guys really are kinda losers. Most men are not plugged into the manosphere. The manosphere gives us a false idea that men are awesome. This is a pre selected group of introspective men on these forums. Most men are not like us.

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I agree with the sentiment of your post, but wanted to comment on this part specifically. Have you seen the types of guys who scour dating/pick-up info online? They tend to be rather awkward and socially challenged. Everyone here isn't exactly a winner either.

I would venture a guess that the average poster here is worse with women than the average dude out in the real world, but is also way more educated on how women work ironically thanks to the redpill idealogy preached here.

Here's something for y'all to consider.

Many guys here complain (a lot) about the low quality of women on the market today.

I suggest that is ONLY POSSIBLE if there is an equal overabundance of low quality men.

What guys with a little bit of a clue see when they look out in the field of women is likely very similar to what women with a little bit of a clue see when they look out into the sea of available men.

And just as many women overestimate their value, so do an equal proportion of men.

Which leaves the dating world filled with bitter betas and angry 4's.

taiyuu_otoko said:

I suggest that is ONLY POSSIBLE if there is an equal overabundance of low quality men.

What guys with a little bit of a clue see when they look out in the field of women is likely very similar to what women with a little bit of a clue see when they look out into the sea of available men.

And just as many women overestimate their value, so do an equal proportion of men.

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No doubt that is true, although it's a little more complicated to define what a low quality man is compared to a low quality woman. Most guys probably consider a low quality woman to be a woman who is unable to properly bond and commit to a man - she will be a slvt and a cheater.

For a man, though, it gets more difficult. Most PUA gurus would probably tell you that the highest quality men are pump and dumpers - most likely because that is what they are themselves. So they try to paint that type as the most desirable. And they may in fact BE the most desirable - but only for short term mating. If you confront PUAs with this idea, then they decide that women ONLY enjoy sex with short term mates (I know for a fact this is a lie, or at least incorrect). And that women only appreciate long term mates for their resources, but are repelled by them sexually (again, lie).

So a low quality male is probably unattractive, or weak willed, or clingy, or feminine, and probably any other number of failings you may want to throw out there.

When you say that women tend to overestimate their own attractiveness though, that says a mouthful. Because then they think they are so special that they can make the "alpha pump and dumper" male drop his ways to be with her. Which is usually just a fantasy, unless the guy is ready to settle down.

Yewki said:

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but wanted to comment on this part specifically. Have you seen the types of guys who scour dating/pick-up info online? They tend to be rather awkward and socially challenged. Everyone here isn't exactly a winner either.

I would venture a guess that the average poster here is worse with women than the average dude out in the real world, but is also way more educated on how women work ironically thanks to the redpill idealogy preached here.

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Yeh you are right. I did not consider that. I have this picture in my mind of a guy that reads the manosphere as being this fit intelligent man who is hell bent on self improvement. Thats probably not the case lol.

I have so much respect for the intelligence of some of the posters here that i may be overrating the average consumer of online pick-up info.

If you confront PUAs with this idea, then they decide that women ONLY enjoy sex with short term mates (I know for a fact this is a lie, or at least incorrect). And that women only appreciate long term mates for their resources, but are repelled by them sexually (again, lie).

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Agreed.

When I first got into pickup I made a point of meeting people off of forums, I was in Toronto and there were quite a few guys around. About 80% were weirdos with real world problems. Things you wouldn't imagine, gambling problems, drinking problems, real life narcissistic bastards, drug addicts, know-it-alls, super awkward men, try hards, wannabes, people with rage issues and guru-fans. Most men that frequent the manosphere are arrogant idiots as well... I met one guy that knows all the red pill up and down but lets his gf cheat on him and begs her not to. If you are reading this, you are Monika's b1tch and you are a flake. The guys at the Lairs... lol, you want to look up a weird dude, look up KERMIT (he's a 300 lb PUA from Hamilton) he made a guest appearance at a lair meeting and told me specifically to "NEVER LET A WOMAN DO YOUR DISHES!!!". He wore a girdle which he showed my friend and I before trying some NLP stuff on us. After that I stopped going to lair meetings.

I gave one guy off the forums a friendly Asian chick's contact because I felt bad for him, the dude messaged her nearly 5 times in the span of an hour then got angry with me when I told him I didn't know exactly where she was or why she hadn't replied (as if I keep tabs on random women from my list). If he had waited a couple days, he would've been able to speak with her (she is still single)... so there's the type that are extremely impatient, guys who haven't spoken to ANYONE in a long time and true forced loneliness types. I met one guy from a foreign country which shall go un-named... he seemed cool and we seemed to share some interests. We decided to try out the roomate thing after a couple years... that was when I found out he was a True Forced Loneliness guy. He was obsessed with POOK and POOK's ways and when I started meeting girls he didn't approve of, he went absolutely nuts. It ended in me over-paying him for rent and then having to escape one night after, he tried to follow me to the atm to make me withdraw all my money. I have a feeling he would have killed me afterwards... the country we were in had very little law. That's not a joke, I changed my username as a part of that. Dude messaged me and my parents continually for a couple months trying to find out my whereabouts. I never did anything to this guy except stay at his house and date a Japanese girl that he didn't really like. (He had been single with 0 dates for nearly 6 years)... One night while I was taking a dump, he kicked in the door and said that I was 2 minutes too long... apparently he had been timing my dumps and I was only allowed to use the bathroom for 10 minutes at a shot while he was at home. You are probably wondering why I didn't leave? Well I hadn't made a plan B and didn't know anyone else in the country... I was a stupid kid... this was in the first week of staying at his house... his personality went from cool guy to the chick from MISERY in the span of 2 days. I had to give him nearly $50 dollars to go see a hooker every time I wanted to use the washroom. I left a week later when the J-girl offered me a place at her house... sometimes I feel guilty not treating her better. This is about 6 or 7 years ago now but you figure people off a pickup forum would be nice and normal right? Nope.

Thats not to say the manosphere is filled with bad apples, I just have sh1tty luck. The only guys I ever met off a pickup forum that were really nice to me, open and friendly, bought my wife and I dinner, one guy at McD's and another at pizza 2 pizza. I still talk with one of them even though I met them nearly 4 years ago. So there are really nice people out there and meeting them makes it worthwhile (not just cause we got a free dinner).

So there you are Pandora, I would agree, most men that frequent the forums are as nut bag crazy as the feminist mobs they claim to hate so much. Generally, when I look for people to hang out with now, I usually speak to guys that share my hobbies or senior citizens. I know thats not the focus of this thread but I thought I would add that... A LOT of unstable people out there. I would advise serious caution against shacking up with anyone EVER. For this reason, I was never and still have quite a bit of trouble going to the bathroom with other people around.. When I wanted to use the washroom, I used to kick my wife out of the house or give her money to go get ice cream... doesn't make sense but I keep reliving that nightmare over and over.

So yeah... be careful out there.