The Death of a Dream: The Real Cost of Divorce

I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s. It was truly a different world back then. Almost none of the families on my street were divorced. My parents never divorced. I was able to “go home” in my 30’s and 40’s to see my Mom and Dad living together in the Family house. We would sit around the dinner table, laughing and joking, both of my parents sharing their memories of the 3 children they raised.

Like most people my age (I’m 57 now), I got married. We even waited 7 years before having children of our own. I was 32 when my first child was born. My second, when I was 35. I can honestly say she was a pretty good Mother and a decent wife when the children were little. But in retrospect, I can see the early signs of problems with my ex, but I was too naïve, and to some degree, full of pride and hubris to recognize it at the time. I thought I could handle anything and also thought I could help “fix” her. Moreover, I was taught and raised to believe that a man handled things, he did whatever was necessary to keep the family together, to take care of his children.

As time went by, my ex got worse and worse. If we didn’t have children together, I would have divorced her. But, in good conscience, I could not let my children be exposed to whatever emotional abusive their Mother might inflict on them if I wasn’t around. Her passive aggressive, bi polar behavior (which didn’t truly manifest itself until later in the marriage) is difficult for an adult to deal with, let alone a child. And for My own reasons, I absolutely could not accept the thought of some other man (step dad, whatever…) being around my children at a young age.

We eventually separated and divorced (she filed the papers) after my youngest went to college. I’ve detailed that story in another post here. And I’ve discussed the financial cost and continuing burden the divorce and alimony have incurred. But that is just one of the costs associated with divorce when children (a family) are involved.

The other side of the coin is the gut wrenching emotional cost to your children and yourself:

They no longer have the security of being able to return to the Family home. And make no mistake, it’s incredibly important to have that even when you are older. My children have been forever robbed of that.

I and my children will never again know the joy and comfort of the Family sitting around the dining room table, discussing our lives and interests, all four of us together.

There are milestone events and little every day memories that only me and my ex have from when the girls were little. One of the great joys of parenting is sharing those memories together with your spouse. That has been stolen from me. There is only one other person who has those common memories and experiences, but we no longer speak to each other.

I sometimes have dreams of the Happy Family life when the girls were little and the Family was still together. Then I wake up and remember that it was just a dream.

There is a tremendous sense of loss, sometimes even a physical ache that comes over you when you think about all of the above. So, you push it out of your mind and move forward, doing your best to enjoy the rest of your life. But this isn’t what you planned on. It is not the life you envisioned for yourself and your children.

This, gentlemen, is the real cost of divorce.

Yes, I am so glad I have children. I love my daughters so much and I’m so incredibly blessed to have them in my life. But this is not what I wanted nor expected when I got married and started a Family.

And from my perspective, knowing what I know now, I believe that knowledge of the red pill can help prevent divorce. Knowing more about women’s true nature, waiting until you are older to marry, being better able to judge if a women is long term relationship and Mother material could definitely help prevent the tragic breakup of a family.

I was fully capable of and wanted to be married for the rest of my life. I just chose the wrong woman.

Rollo believes that knowledge of the Red Pill and game can save lives.

It can also help prevent the tragedy of divorce.

-Augustus-

Nice talk, Augustus, I feel for you. Reminds me a bit of a speech at a support group, but I suppose that is part of what this site is.

I will say one thing, I waited until I was older to get married but it still didn't work out. I screened heavily and tried to keep the odds in my favor but apparently it just wasn't meant to be.

If what Mauser says is true, the Men's Rights stuff is starting to gain some traction. I hope so, but I think it will be a long, long while before family courts are fair, if ever.

Zekko,

If you don't mind my asking, what did cause the marriage to fail?

Did she change? Were there hidden issues that came out later?

-Augustus-

I've grown up in Sweden, a country among the top highest divorce rates in the world. Sitting around with your parents and reminiscing is just a fairytale to me. I make it a sport to identify people who grew up in f*cked "families" by guessing. Got both of the coworkers I got to my department right last year

I got divorced in 2000. In 15 years of dating since then I do believe I've watched a steady decline in what each sex brings to the table of marriage. I believe I'm preaching to the choir when I state that the "system" of western society has systematically destroyed marriage as an institution.
So many people are totally F'd when it comes to priorities that I don't believe marriage is even viable. The sad thing is the "system" still sells it. Marriage by itself is a HUGE business. What gets sold to Americans after marriage is even more of a "Catching up with the Jones's trap" That's why I think so many women bail at say 28-40. They see that all the validation events are over, marriage, house, kids.....once the well of Americana validation runs dry they get a wanderlust to go find something new. That's there programming.
My hope is that there are swaths of both men and women awaking to the fact that happiness is internal. I think we are the beginning of this. Until it gains traction we are stuck. People will continue the misconstrued idea that their "soul mate" is still out there.
Of course when you first meet a woman you can't know what her operating system is. There may be clues, but often you won't know for years.

KC

Augustus_McCrae said:

If you don't mind my asking, what did cause the marriage to fail?

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I don't really want to get into it too deeply because I've discussed it before, plus I've moved on from all that. But basically, she seemed to develop some sort of mental issues about five years in. Your comment "Her passive aggressive, bi polar behavior (which didn’t truly manifest itself until later in the marriage)" kind of reminded me of it, although she wasn't bipolar.

I don't know what happened to her, but she became almost impossible. Some here theorized she was going into menopause, although she was only in her 30s. I didn't deal with it as well as I should have, I let her p!ss me off, so we ended up fighting a lot. In the years since, some other mental problems have turned up in her family, so I guess the potential was always there.

Zekko,

Yes, it does sound familiar. I've seen it happen so many times with friends. The woman gets in her late 30's and goes off the wall. A good friend of mine has even given it a name: "The 37 theory". She gets around 37 and has an affair, goes crazy, you name it. And the guy is left thinking, WTF just happened??

-Augustus-

Dear Augustas,
I feel for you and all the other Guys out there....However the left wing mentality that spawned Feminism is so deeply entrenched in our Social Fabric,that it will take generations to remove...Remember the Mouse Utopia Post and the research of Jack Calhoun,For the Northern Europeans it is all over,we are no longer breeding and replacing ourselves,the most intelligent Females seem to be hiving off to live out a childless future,the Males,like Calhouns "Beautiful ones",similarly occupy breeding niches,and argue over Colognes and video games LOL...However,to cushion the soft lives of so many baby boomers like me, we have steadily demolished our International boundaries and accepted a flood tide of Peoples whose Cultures will thrive in this environment because,other than reaching their claws out for Welfare, they will take some time to embrace the more sinister aspects of left wing ideologies like Feminism!

It boils down to expectations. When you expect to share a life with someone, have a family with a white picket fence, and grow old happily ever after only to find out later that your “dream” has been violated, then you set yourself up for unnecessary, pernicious nostalgia due to your own self-created contrivance.

Relationships are analogous to car leases. They provide comfort, companionship, and, at times, excitement, but always be ready for their return--as irrespective of a 1-, 2-, 5-, 10-, or 20-year lease, it's, nevertheless, temporal.

Adjusting your expectations at the beginning will save you much grief at the end. The same can be said for any venture in life; try your best but don't invest with monumental expectations. If it works out great; if not, fine. Keep many irons in the fire as not to focus heavily in any one pursuit, else inadvertently grow over-invested and nostalgic at its collapse.

ALSO: In life, most of us attempt to succeed and avoid failure at all costs in our pursuits. However, failure is a necessary component of personal growth, and often it's our biggest failures that engender our greatest successes. Accordingly, don't be afraid to try, fight tenaciously, and fail; reflecting back you will realize that your "failure" was a life-changing, imbuing lesson, which had to occur to engender your evolution and progression toward pivotal success (growth) thereafter.

Augustus, I direct this question to you. We understand what you have lost, but, have you learned any pivotal, inspiring lessons from your experience that have contributed toward, or augmented, your personal growth/evolvement? This is the subject I'm interested in, not what you have lost, but what you have gained from this experience ...

Great post and thread.

I remind myself daily of what my wife could potentially be capable of. There is no doubt in my mind that if I let my guard down and lost the frame, I'd suddenly be living with a completely different person.

I've been reading Books written pre-1955, and the current set of em I'm reading are written by an excellent Woman author from that time who is writing about pre-Revolutionary History in the colonies. You REALLY SEE how life was back then in those lawless lands (British common law was just getting set up, and all these governors and stuff hadn't been selected Yet). There was still a lot of politics going on and ambushing and violence/alliances/bribes. Basically, the gist of Women's situation back then pre-1750s, was, when her husband died, she IMMEDIATELY found another, or else she'd be sleeping on beds made of different feathers (forget the least favorable feather-stuffed pillows). She KNEW she'd become an "old maid" sooner rather than later. The mourning over dead husbands was SHORT. They HAD to latch on to another dude for Survival (these are the highest of high society women at the time too, the most educated ones...as much as one could be educated back then). They always gossiping. Marriage was Quick! they just got on with it outta necessity. Corn and Meat were hard to come by and had to be rationed and stored over the winter, especially if they'd just came over the Atlantic from London and then trecked via horse and buggy to whatever state they were going to, arriving Very worn out and tired.

Its funny, my ex texted me today about how lucky our son is. Took everything I had to stuff the response "except his moms a sloot and fvcked up his childhood" back in the bottle.

Gotta keep working on that anger some days. For his sake and mine.

Augustus,
I like the "37 Theory" Plus or minus a few years that's pretty much on target. I've watched that again and again. It all comes down to utility. When you aren't the circus clown providing utility and entertainment anymore she moves on.
KC

What's interesting about this is that women still value marriage as much as ever, but have effectively removed the advantages from it through cultural and political campaigns. You really gotta wonder what they were thinking when a man can literally ask "Why do I need a wife?" and nobody can really answer it.

When a man gets married he tends to be more productive (works harder, more hours, etc.).

The same thing happens again with each child.

In a way it kind of makes sense but, as has been pointed out above, he's becoming a mule. Years ago one of my best friends told me, "I'm just a wallet. My wife has everything scheduled all of the time and all I do is go to work, come home, and then I get asked to do more (more around the house, climb the corporate ladder faster, etc.)..." It really felt like an empty existence. He wasn't enjoying my family. He merely existed to pull the plow for them so that they could go off and have fun.

At the time, I mentioned this to a few friends who were in a similar position (married w/ kids for a number of years) and each of those men felt exactly the same. Empty. Just existing to pay for sh1t. No fun. Just go to work, come home, eat, sleep, repeat until dead.


A good bit of motivation has been killed off simply by the ex, the state, and the courts, just taking from men. The courts handed everything over to women and told you, "Go work harder! Go work more!!" The state punishes you in a number of ways but if you work harder they just take a larger percentage.. They see it as: "Well, we'll take 15% from you now, but if you really work harder over the next year we'll take 20% or more off of all that extra work!" - that's a huge fvcking disincentive.


Then you land on the single lifestyle which is more along the lines of: I only have to do what's necessary and maybe a little extra to have some fun.

With more and more men forgoing marriage, you have less and less productivity by men which means less taxes to the government which means less money being redistributed to women. Further, women are doing two things to make this situation worse:
- Slutting it up with various thugs so that they can be single unwed moms and get gifts and prizes from the government. The man, in this situation, is a low-income, if at all, earner and has no intention to pay.
- Nuking the family, which kills their ex husband's motivation and kills the motivation for men to get married in the future.

The laws are sh1tty, the society is against the male gender. More than 50% of marriages fail like this, 70% of divorces that are initiated by women. Why stake your life, happiness, finance on the whim of a woman.We're being taught that marriage is a good thing, a normal part of life but in reality marriage is a cage where men are locked-in at their expense.


Augustus read this and then read it again http://forum.mensdivorce.com//viewtopic.php?t=13374

Guru,

That is an excellent question but not an easy one... I'm working on a answer.

YawataNokami,

I took a look at that link. A very exhaustive list full of advice for someone going through a divorce. Having been through a 3+ year divorce
that actually wound up in court, in front of a judge, I can attest to the fact that "The list" could be very helpful to a man getting ready to go
through the divorce grinder.

Every man facing divorce needs to realize that he is literally fighting for his rights, his freedom, and his fortune.

Case in point: Ask any young man if he could imagine having to pay $1000 a month for 8 years to a fat, ugly, bitter 52 year old woman who hates him. That is what has happened to me (3 years of temporary alimony + 5 years of durational alimony)

Gentlemen: Do not get married. If you do, you are placing your life, your money, and your freedom in the hands of a woman.

If alimony is granted, You are, in effect, her slave until the alimony is over. In the middle of 2018, I will have completed my 8 year sentence. Please don't think I'm using the word slave incorrectly. If I don't make the alimony payments, I can be put in jail. She has the full weight of the law behind her. I am forceably compelled to give this woman money every month and I receive absolutely Nothing in return. That, gentlemen, is a slave.

Also, bear this in mind, in the State I'm in, once even $1 of alimony is granted, she can go back and petition the court for an extension or change.

- Augustus -

Augustus_McCrae said:

text.... - Augustus -

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I just don't understand why you guys got married to begin with? what were you thinking??? do you even know yourself?

Attack,

Please bear in mind that the world was quite different back when us older guys first got married.

No fault divorce wasn't even introduced into the States until the 70's and 80's. Also, there were no resources like this forum available. Many of the older guys here simply had little or no information whatsoever about what they were getting into. I did not know anyone who had been divorce raped.

Also, there was a stigma associated with having children out of wedlock back then. It was nowhere near as acceptable as it is now.

With regard to knowing ourselves, I would wager that many guys here would have stayed married and been happy to grow old with a wife and family. But times changed and many of them, including me, were divorce raped. And if I had the benefit of the knowledge that you have today, I would never consider getting married.

So it would be good for you to take into account that the world you grew up in is very, very different than before.

And while I don't have any illusions of being a great help to anyone, if my experience can help just one guy to stop and realize what he's really getting
into before he pulls the trigger (so to speak ) on marriage, my posts will have been worthwhile.

-Augustus-

YawataNoKami said:

What's interesting about this is that women still value marriage as much as ever...[/B]

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They might SAY they value marriage as much as ever, but they actually value GETTING married more than they value BEING married.

Everything's changed in the last 60 years. It's deteriorated over time. They want the ring. They want the lavish wedding. They want the assets. Not all of them want to put in the work.

Augustus_McCrae said:

Attack,No fault divorce wasn't even introduced into the States until the 70's and 80's. Also, there were no resources like this forum available. Many of the older guys here simply had little or no information whatsoever about what they were getting into. I did not know anyone who had been divorce raped.

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I'm 54, I got married at 33 (that would have been '93). I was well aware of the risks. I don't know how anyone could have gone into marriage not realizing the risks. The divorce rate was well known. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, and my parents had a good marriage, so I had a positive outlook on it. I figured it was worth a roll of the dice.

But I knew we didn't want kids so that took some of the financial risk out of it (child support). And I had waited until my 30s, a big risk factor for divorce was getting married too young. So I figured I had a decent chance. I enjoyed being married. But it just didn't work out. Oh well, all's well that ends well. I tried it once, I won't try it again. You put too much of your future into the hands of another person that you have no control over.

Kailex said:

Everything's changed in the last 60 years. It's deteriorated over time. They want the ring. They want the lavish wedding. They want the assets. Not all of them want to put in the work.

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Yeah, they want the wedding, they want to be the center of attention for a day. The marriage is an afterthought.

Marriage is a minefield. If only fifty percent of land mines actually blow up, are you really going to walk across that field telling yourself that not all land mines are like that?

Are you going to willingly enter a game of Russian Roulette where there are three live rounds out of the six chambers in the gun? Are you really going to hand someone (her) a loaded gun (marriage), and then beg her not to pull the trigger? (divorce, financial support demanded, separation/alienation from children, shift in friendships and family life)

In the mine field of marriage, every day, week, month, and year is a new step in that field. Every fight, disagreement, trip, party, and even the seeming minor events are just another step in the field.

No matter how carefully a man can navigate the field, even if he can walk through the field without an explosion,she's still got that gun and she can use it at any time. No thanks.