When passion and attraction NEVER intersect

I have a buddy who is a "nice guy". Think very skinny, intelligent, quiet, loner with a messy white guy fro. His passion is social psychology research, he is on his way to receiving a doctorate and will spend most of his days inside, not moving, at a desk somewhere.

One school of thought would tell us he is an ultimate man. He is following his passion, doesn't let women interfere or influence that, and as a result of his driven nature and ambivalence toward women they should come running at him.

This is far from the case however. I can tell stories of first hand experiences how a lifestyle like this boasts attraction that trumps any ****y bar-hopper's, but I really don't see any of that happening for this guy.

Don't we need a fair amount of drive toward the opposite sex to ever get any (pun intended)? He could easily spend a lifetime of quiet study in solitude, and even if he didn't, the attributes he values are not considered high value by most women. More than a drive toward them, de all men need a drive toward commodities in the sexual marketplace?

Another friend is what anyone would call a complete F***-up. Fired from every job he's ever had, lost a great deal of friends due to drunken antics, abandoned by most of his family, always itching for a fight, almost went to jail recently, little to no drive or ambition, and the list goes on.

But... he works out constantly and has a small horde of women texting him nudes whenever he decides to "break" with his gorgeous, adorable, and totally committed girlfriend.

I see these two individuals and I immediately know which I want to be more like, and yet I have a hard time imagining a world where an intellectual and a muscle head hit the streets and the intellectual snares more dates than the other.

Yet life and mastery of it's facets require time and commitment. How on earth does the first male (someone many of you are ready to proclaim "beta") triumph in the dating world and maintain his commitment to goals not recognized by the female species. In answering this let's be realistic and realize that no man wants to spend life alone rejected from the opposite sex, even if it may not be a high priority. Thoughts?

Howz about you mind your own business and worry less about your fantasy archetypes?

lifeislearning said:

Don't we need a fair amount of drive toward the opposite sex to ever get any (pun intended)?

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I'm always reading posts here like "I've been acting aloof and the woman are all over me". My natural personality is aloof, too aloof really, so I've been conducting some experiments lately. And I can tell you that, just as I've suspected, the more attention and interest I give to women, the more I'm getting back. No question.

lifeislearning said:

Another friend is what anyone would call a complete F***-up. Fired from every job he's ever had, lost a great deal of friends due to drunken antics, abandoned by most of his family, always itching for a fight, almost went to jail recently, little to no drive or ambition, and the list goes on.

But... he works out constantly and has a small horde of women texting him nudes whenever he decides to "break" with his gorgeous, adorable, and totally committed girlfriend.

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This sounds like what Backbreaker describes as the "irresponsible fun guy". Yes, he's a loser, but he attracts women because he's fun, he has time to be drunk and keeping his body honed, he has time to do drugs and do all kinds of fun things because he's not tied down to responsibilities. He's not spending 60 hours a week building his business. This guy has short term appeal.

The first guy can come out okay as long as he doesn't isolate himself too much. He needs to make sure he has some balance in his life by being social, and keeping some women in his life. It's good that he's following his passion, and I don't think such a guy who is on a successful track needs to necessarily become a "master PUA/DJ/player" in order to be fulfilled. By the same token, he also needs to not fall into the AFC trap of having a scarcity mindset.

zekko said:

I'm always reading posts here like "I've been acting aloof and the woman are all over me". My natural personality is aloof, too aloof really, so I've been conducting some experiments lately. And I can tell you that, just as I've suspected, the more attention and interest I give to women, the more I'm getting back. No question.

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In only a perfect world a regular man could act aloof and indifferent and end up with a lookalike of Shakira and Kate Upton. So many guys here try to sell that idea like crazy! But for most of us here, who are working men with non-movie star good looks, fame, and money, we have to approach.

Sure you can work on building your business, call it ambition if you will, but women want the fruits of your ambition. No amount of ambition will get a girl wet. Case and point:

A girl will often go for?
1. The guy who working hard to build a business that generates 7 figures a year
2. The guy who has a business that generates 7 figures a year

The answer is obvious. How do you think the guys at Facebook felt when they came into big bucks, compared to when they could barely afford their Macbooks?

That aside, A healthy social life helps.

How about we cut thru the crap a little bit.

If these two guys were to switch bodies but keep their own minds who do you think would be winning then?

In other words I bet the skinny nice guy isn't as physically attractive as the muscle head boner.

Combine the skinny guy's mind, ambition, etc. with the muscle head's body, looks, and nonchalant attitude towards women and you would have a full blown DJ on your hands.

There is no one characteristic or trait that makes a guy successful with women. It is a combination of factors that creates attraction. It's no different than your favourite recipe. You can prepare it 100 different ways and there are many many variations that taste great. There are few however that are the ultimate combination. Furthermore even if you do create the ultimate recipe there are still going to be people who don't like it. In other words even the most attractive guys aren't going to attract every woman they want.

It's more important to identify the proper traits and characteristics of guys who do well with women. Then focus on creating your own recipe the best you can. That's the best you can do and if you are realistic about who you can attract you will do just fine.

IF the geek would work out a bit for his health, He'd slay it as soon as he got fit enough for it to show.... I'm naturally big. 6'2" 235 and don't work out much. BUT since I'm big enough to be viewed as a "protector" and rich enough to be viewed as a provider, I have women looking at me. BUT they still have the stupid idea that women rule the world.... and unless YOU have a better life than I do.... you AREN'T running MINE. Causes some "issues"

Intelligence doesn't show its power until there is something to demonstrate with that intelligence. PhD in Psychological Research. One thing you can do to show any power from that field is probably mind control, or showing that you get a lot of money from being in that field. I bet that your first friend isn't demonstrating any of that, but rather he's just studying at home, and keep things to himself.

Women are attracted to power, and intelligence yields its power too, but women must be able to assess that power from their own perspective. What's hard for intelligent nerdy guys is that it's hard to really demonstrate the power with their intelligence. People's intelligence are unfortunately average to low, which applies for women's intelligence too. So even if he were to demonstrate his superior math/analysis skills on a whiteboard in front of hot chicks, very few of them are able to comprehend that.

Imagine a body builder whose got his own gym at home. Workout, good nutrition, the perfect diet, but everytime he goes outside, he wears a very thick jacket, not showing any of his muscles. Do you think women will be attracted to him? Never. That's what being intelligent is like. Your power manifest within your brain, but until you can demonstrate something with it, nobody can appreciate it.

If your first friend went up to Ted Talks, and says "let me show you what a total mind-control is like", and he then grabbed an audience, and demonstrated a complete mind-control with a single snap, chicks would be wet.

Compare this to a dude who goes to gym and flexing his muscles all the time
a magician running his own show
a movie star
a singer

People are lazy, women included, actually especially women. Nobody wanted to spend an effort in trying to understand you. With all the guys approaching a woman left and right, the woman would have to resort to quick assessment of your worth: physical fitness and face become the first filters. Your first friend won't filter through.