Need Some Advice - IMMEDIATELY.

So this should probably go under the career / work advice section...but this could be helpful to a lot of us in terms of assertiveness.

Recently, a semi-famous rock band that I consider to be one of my favorites has contacted me to design on their cover art for their new record. I was honored and absolutely floored when they saw some of my previous work, heard I was fan, and reached out to me.

So...the process has been very difficult. I have delivered some of my best work to them that is not resonating with them. They have decided to use some of my work, while not using other parts of it. So, what we have is a mish-mash of ideas that is not coming off all that great.

The front cover is really, really poorly done and not reflective of the work I do. The band is sort of directing me around to telling me what to add without acknowledging my professional opinion. The result is not good.

They seem to like it, but I feel a better effort can be made to improve the work.

The problem I have is confronting what I consider to be my heroes and telling them what is being done is NOT good work and they should allow me to do the job I was hired to do. It's like me hiring a guy to build a kitchen and telling him how to slice up the granite the way I want without considering his take on it.

So how do I approach this in the most professional way and get him to respect my creative lead?

TLR - Rock band is pushing to designer to design something horrible. Designer wants to show them a better way is possible without offending the band.

What is standard practice in the industry for this situation?

If they want something desgined in a crappy way, in your opinion at least, then let them. I would just keep saying "if that's the way you want it, then sure." If people don't ask for your opinion or ignore it, then just let them take control because they aren't going to change their view if their mind is already set on something.

Maybe design a handful of covers along with the one that they want as well. That might help.

It's their money by the way.

Bible_Belt said:

What is standard practice in the industry for this situation?

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Some designers will hit the high road and tell them:

"Sorry, I just think I can deliver what you need." - something along those lines.

The other part of it is, yes, it is their money and they are going to get want they want out of me. I also cut them a huge deal because with the amount of changes they've requested, this could have been easily a $5,000 pay day for me - but I've been extra generous helping them.

The part I'm struggling with is giving them something that will not be received well by their fans. I don't want people to hate on them and blame me for it.

FWIW, they released some of my work to their fans already pre-record release and people went wild for it. So, I've proven myself.

Thanks!

I thinking about creating a page with my final project pitch to them that explains why my idea is timeless, going to work, meeting expectations, etc. At least I can walk away knowing that I did my part to give them the best work possible.

More advice please...on a deadline.

Thanks again to everyone who has chipped in so far.

Can you do it BOTH ways and let them make the comparison? I don't know how much time and effort it would take, but it may be a solution.

Alternatively you can do the old two columns on a piece of paper and list the pros & cons of doing the project their way or telling them you are not compatible with their ideas. That may enable you to weigh both alternatives and feel good that you made the right choice.

If you have the 48 Laws of Power look up the story of the battering ram maker. The king wanted a super-huge battering ram, but the maker knew that a smaller one would be much more powerful due to inertia. He spent much time explaining his knowledge of physics to the king. His knowledge was absolutely correct, but the king wanted what he wanted. The king put the man to death for arguing with him.

Here it is:

In 131 B.C., the Roman consul Publius Crassus Dives Mucianus, laying siege to the Greek town of Pergamus, found himself in need of a battering ram to force through the town's walls. He had seen a couple of hefty ship's masts in a shipyard in Athens a few days before, and he ordered that the larger of these be sent to him immediately. The military engineer in Athens who received the order felt certain that the consul really wanted the smaller of the masts. He argued endlessly with the soldiers who delivered the request: The smaller mast, he told them, was much better suited to the task. And indeed it would be easier to transport.

The soldiers warned the engineer that their master was not a man to argue with, but he insisted that the smaller mast would be the only one that would work with a machine that he was constructing to go with it. He drew diagram after diagram, and went so far as to say that he was the expert and they had no clue what they were talking about. The soldiers knew their leader and at last convinced the engineer that it would be better to swallow his expertise and obey.

After they left, though, the engineer thought about it some more. What was the point, he asked himself, in obeying an order that would lead to failure And so he sent the smaller mast, confident that the consul would see how much more effective it was and reward him jusdy.

When the smaller mast arrived, Mucianus asked his soldiers for an explanation. They described to him how the engineer had argued endlessly for the smaller mast, but had finally promised to send the larger one. Mucianus went into a rage. He could not concentrate on the siege, or consider the importance of breaching the walls before the town received reinforcements. All he could think about was the impudent engineer, whom he ordered to be brought to him immediately.

Arriving a few days later, the engineer gladly explained to the consul, one more time, the reasons for the smaller mast. He went on and on, using me same arguments he had made with the soldiers. He said it was wise to listen to experts in these matters, and if the attack was only tried with the battering ram he had sent, die consul would not regret it. Mucianus let him finish, then had him stripped naked before the soldiers and flogged and scourged with rods until he died.

Thanks Atom Smasher. Good way to look at things...living and dying by the choices we make.

I think I will create a project pitch page that basically states my case. I also had a few veterans look at the design and sided with my artistic choice based on the themes I researched and that were given to me.

How would you handle a client that you did not have such an affinity for? Thats the key to handling this client. Same as chicks, dont pedestal. You were hired to be an expert, and by the work you have accolades for already. Be that expert. Decide that you are the very best option they have. They already did. Lead them to the expert outcome. They will thank you later. If they "break up" with you or fire you, go with the dignity that you indeed were true to your expertise of your industry and, yourself. In the end it will help you to better serve and design for future clients.

They are your client. As such, it's up to you to make them happy and give them what they want.

If you want them to change their minds, then it's going to be up to you to change "what they want" to what you want.


That being said, you have to project authority. I work in movies, and there was a time when i was put on as AD on my first big budget project, and barely even knew what an AD did. I was intimidated by the professionalism of everything. FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT. I was scared sh!tless that i'd do a bad job, but instead I bucked up and just acted like i knew what i was doing, and relied on my film knowledge, and everything went fine. I mean I did good work, but often times by simply acting like you're capable and in charge, people respect you more and give you more control. I'm NOT saying you do bad work at all. I'm merely saying that, like a girl, don't let your heroes intimidate you. They called on YOU to do a job that they are INCAPABLE of doing. You know how to do it better, and you are the authority on this. They're just people too. Don't make the mistake of assuming that because they are talented musicians that they are the authority on everything artistic.

You probably shouldn't be a complete harda$$ about the whole thing. There's an even middle ground to be had here. You NEED to assert your control and knowledge with a firm but gentle hand. This is a touchy subject, because they ARE the ones paying you, so they might get frazzled if they feel like you're trying to muscle them.

I probably wouldn't tell them point-blank to leave you to do your work because you're the expert. IMO it'd be better to make them feel like they are in charge while influencing their opinions and directing them towards what you think might be best.

Worst case? They're completely stubborn, just do it anyway, collect a healthy paycheck and don't put the work on in your portfolio if you're not proud of it.

You could even use a music strategy to explain your concern. For example, you could explain how it's similar to how if you hire a producer to record your album, you are trusting that the producer will direct the album in a way that assures quality, even if he may disagree with you on certain points. If you "direct" the producer too much, then often the quality of the work will suffer, because you're not providing an environment where his creative outpouring can flourish.

salinechow said:

How would you handle a client that you did not have such an affinity for? Thats the key to handling this client. Same as chicks, dont pedestal. You were hired to be an expert, and by the work you have accolades for already. Be that expert. Decide that you are the very best option they have. They already did. Lead them to the expert outcome. They will thank you later. If they "break up" with you or fire you, go with the dignity that you indeed were true to your expertise of your industry and, yourself. In the end it will help you to better serve and design for future clients.

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This.

Remove the rose-colored lenses, the affinity and that pedestal and become a professional again. Basing off your accolades, I'm pretty sure you know what your doing. I'm also pretty sure you have been designing quite longer than that rock band had.

Also, IMO you shouldn't have taken a pay cut either, no amount of respect and appreciation should get in the way of you feeding your family or earning a paycheck. A friendly discount is fine, but I'm sure you're probably doing your job for dirt cheap because you like them basing off your unwillingness to offer your expert opinion.

Explain to them your expertise, explain to them that you know what works & what doesn't. Explain to them your willing to be flexible, but if that flexibility compromises your works quality, then it can't be done. If they are unwilling, opt out. You may not get to design for your favorite rock band and hey, they may even be mad, but they'll respect you.

Hammers & Nails my friend.