When it comes to the battle of SMV, who really wins in the end, men or women?

Ambitious Player · Apr 2, 2014

Now I am talking about here in the USA and Western society of course. A while ago I came across the SMV chart and noticed that women peak a lot earlier than men do. People say that men get to have the last laugh but I think we can make an argument for both sexes. I feel comfortable posting the thread on this forum since there are so many men of all age groups here.

Women hit their peak early and after a certain age they start to hit the wall. When they get into their 30s most of the times, men are just getting to their peaks. Now what I have noticed is that women are hitting their peak here in American society during a time of their lives when experimenting with new partners is encouraged, casual sex is promoted, and there are a great number of partners available (college for example). On the other hand you can argue that the rest of their 20s they are declining in the eyes of the opposite sex.

Men gradually climb the ladder in their 20s and at 30 have comparative SMV to women. For the most of his 30s and the rest of his life, a guy has a higher SMV than a girl his age. A lot of people argue saying his peak is longer. Now although a man has peaks later in life and has a longer peak than women do, it is when he hits his peak that hurts. By the time he is in his 30s, most attractive women have settled down, the idea of casual sex is not promoted, and there is a lot of pressure on him to marry.

Now I am a guy in his early 20s who does feel somewhat comforted by the fact that if I keep improving myself I will have more success with attractive women. Unfortunately I get the vision of walking into a Lamborghini dealership with enough cash to afford a Lamborghini but being too late to the party, all the nice models are gone.

Here is the chart BTW.

Jaylan · Apr 3, 2014

If we are talking about what gets the sexes wet or hard...youth and fitness is attractive in both sexes. I dont really buy into the manospheres idea of the sexual market place, because their view of a mans value increasing with age is based on the behavior of gold diggers. From what Ive seen, a sexy, healthy look gets a guy more genuine sex, than the dude who flashes his status/resources. And by genuine sex, I mean women who sleep with you because they crave raw manliness, without wondering what they can pawn off of you in return to spreading their legs. They fvk you because they want the carnal pleasure.

At the end of the day, physically attractive men and women, want to have sex with other physically attractive men and women. I dont believe money gets a woman to be physically attracted to a man. It may allow her to let herself be screwed by the man, but its really all about what resources he can provide her. In my mind, I want to be fvked because the woman craves my physicality...not what she can mooch off of me.

This all said, I dont see this as a man vs woman thing, where one sex wins over the other. When its all said and done, the smart and attractive man or woman has it best. This is the person that makes sure they look sexy, is a good judge of character, and is self sufficient. A man or woman that does that will always be winning. Which means, stay in shape, learn how to figure out whos a good or bad person, and choose a career path that allows you to take care of yourself and lead a fun life.

And the problem with that chart is that it ignores the fact that hot young women, are mostly fvking hot young men. So I really would not consider 38 a mans peak if most of the hot young tail is being screwed by men in their 20s. Anyways, that chart comes from that part of the manosphere that always goes on and on about how lame women will have it in their 30s and how awesome men will have it. I dont waste my time sitting around and hoping that women will eventually get their comeuppance with age. Thats just typical wishful thinking by spiteful dudes in the manosphere. I care about enjoying my time and having fun no matter what my age.

EDIT - OP, honestly your 20s should be your sexual peak years of fun...especially your early 20s. Thats when youre usually in college, and its the easiest for a guy to date many women and have a lot of different sexual experiences. Youll be hard pressed to recreate the potential of your college years once youre in your late 30s. Have fun now...ignore the damn chart...screw the sports car, and just enjoy life. You dont need a sports car to have sex with hot girls. My buddy drives a minivan, and attractive women fawn over him at the gym all the time. You know what hes got? A hot body they want.

Ambitious Player · Apr 3, 2014

Jaylan I see where you are coming from man. Unfortunately I have a very demanding schedule. I should be sleeping right now but I have some work due soon, taking a break from it for now though. My days are so stacked that I don't get the same opportunity to go to a gym or work on my physique as much. I have had some success though and I am in a much better state than I used to be when I first came here. Been in a relationship and had a girlfriend, all that, but I do feel that with all I have gone through I am not there yet.

For example, you say college is amazing, I am going to debate you on that. Depends on what kind of college. If you go to Arizona St then you should be drowning in *****. Unfortunately for a lot of colleges in America, Greek Life has become so dominant that if you aren't a frat boy, regardless of looks, you won't be getting the hottest girls on campus.

Then for attractiveness you have to bring in other factors like race. In some universities (mostly SEC schools but Big 12 schools too), if you aren't the All American looking White male, you aren't hot. Even if a guy of a minority group with good looks was to go to those schools, he would struggle a lot because he deviates so much from the norm.

I think college is overhyped for sure unless you are at a school like Arizona St or something.

TheException · Apr 3, 2014

To the original point about SMV....its not a "battle" between men vs female. I do like the chart by Rollo, as I think it does accurately portray female looks vs men's provisional abilities. But female SMV and male SMV are independent of one another. You cant compare them exactly because they are different and certainly are different for each individual male or female.

Ambitious Player said:
you say college is amazing, I am going to debate you on that. Depends on what kind of college. If you go to Arizona St then you should be drowning in *****. Unfortunately for a lot of colleges in America, Greek Life has become so dominant that if you aren't a frat boy, regardless of looks, you won't be getting the hottest girls on campus.

Then for attractiveness you have to bring in other factors like race. In some universities (mostly SEC schools but Big 12 schools too), if you aren't the All American looking White male, you aren't hot. Even if a guy of a minority group with good looks was to go to those schools, he would struggle a lot because he deviates so much from the norm.

I think college is overhyped for sure unless you are at a school like Arizona St or something.

This is nothing but complaining and whining pal.....

I went to a huge university and was not involved in any type of greek life and still hooked up with attractive women. By saying things such as "oh well im not greek life" or "im not a certain race", you make excuses for your failures. To make matters worse, they arent even true. You need to rid yourself of this mentality and realize you can get whatever you want.

Mike32ct · Apr 3, 2014

Jaylan nailed it exactly.

Gold diggers are soft core prostitutes.

Genuine attraction is based on looks which depend a lot on youth.

Jaylan said:
If we are talking about what gets the sexes wet or hard...youth and fitness is attractive in both sexes. I dont really buy into the manospheres idea of the sexual market place, because their view of a mans value increasing with age is based on the behavior of gold diggers. From what Ive seen, a sexy, healthy look gets a guy more genuine sex, than the dude who flashes his status/resources. And by genuine sex, I mean women who sleep with you because they crave raw manliness, without wondering what they can pawn off of you in return to spreading their legs. They fvk you because they want the carnal pleasure.

At the end of the day, physically attractive men and women, want to have sex with other physically attractive men and women. I dont believe money gets a woman to be physically attracted to a man. It may allow her to let herself be screwed by the man, but its really all about what resources he can provide her. In my mind, I want to be fvked because the woman craves my physicality...not what she can mooch off of me.

This all said, I dont see this as a man vs woman thing, where one sex wins over the other. When its all said and done, the smart and attractive man or woman has it best. This is the person that makes sure they look sexy, is a good judge of character, and is self sufficient. A man or woman that does that will always be winning. Which means, stay in shape, learn how to figure out whos a good or bad person, and choose a career path that allows you to take care of yourself and lead a fun life.

And the problem with that chart is that it ignores the fact that hot young women, are mostly fvking hot young men. So I really would not consider 38 a mans peak if most of the hot young tail is being screwed by men in their 20s. Anyways, that chart comes from that part of the manosphere that always goes on and on about how lame women will have it in their 30s and how awesome men will have it. I dont waste my time sitting around and hoping that women will eventually get their comeuppance with age. Thats just typical wishful thinking by spiteful dudes in the manosphere. I care about enjoying my time and having fun no matter what my age.

EDIT - OP, honestly your 20s should be your sexual peak years of fun...especially your early 20s. Thats when youre usually in college, and its the easiest for a guy to date many women and have a lot of different sexual experiences. Youll be hard pressed to recreate the potential of your college years once youre in your late 30s. Have fun now...ignore the damn chart...screw the sports car, and just enjoy life. You dont need a sports car to have sex with hot girls. My buddy drives a minivan, and attractive women fawn over him at the gym all the time. You know what hes got? A hot body they want.

Ambitious Player · Apr 3, 2014

TheException said:
This is nothing but complaining and whining pal.....

I went to a huge university and was not involved in any type of greek life and still hooked up with attractive women. By saying things such as "oh well im not greek life" or "im not a certain race", you make excuses for your failures. To make matters worse, they arent even true. You need to rid yourself of this mentality and realize you can get whatever you want.

Wrong. I have had small amounts of success but some schools take greek life more seriously than others. The attractive girls are usually in sororities. Now don't get me wrong, I have been with some attractive girls before but they were usually not in sororities and those girls are harder to find.

Ambitious Player · Apr 3, 2014

To guys saying looks, how much of a man's looks would you say is based on his ethnicity? I find that women of my own ethnicity I am top tier and get a lot of IOIs and even among women of minority groups. Yet with girls who are White there isn't much IOI unless they are Euro or foreign. With the All American kind of girls and just American girls, the IOIs are not there and I get a lot of rejections. I do think some of it is because we are more in a college system where reputation is everything but will this generally get better overtime as I move to a bigger city and finish college?

zekko · Apr 3, 2014

Danger said:
My question to you is, why do you think men must go by this limitation given that women like older men?

My experience from dating in most of my 30's were mostly girls 10 years younger than me, and even now at 39 I have early 20 somethings after me.

Right, why do you think young attractive women have so many options? They can realistically date men from a very wide age bracket. And a lot of the time men in their 30s are much more suitable companions. They are more mature than the young 20 year old douchebags who are only interested in partying. A lot of women are also, of course, but not all.

Mike32ct · Apr 3, 2014

But with hypergamy on steroids today and men desperate for puss, I think we are starting to see and will continue to see more and more couples where the female is older and the guy is younger.

I don't necessarily mean large age differences, but ones where the female is a couple years older than the guy.

JoeMarron · Apr 3, 2014

Jaylan said:
If we are talking about what gets the sexes wet or hard...youth and fitness is attractive in both sexes. I dont really buy into the manospheres idea of the sexual market place, because their view of a mans value increasing with age is based on the behavior of gold diggers. From what Ive seen, a sexy, healthy look gets a guy more genuine sex, than the dude who flashes his status/resources. And by genuine sex, I mean women who sleep with you because they crave raw manliness, without wondering what they can pawn off of you in return to spreading their legs. They fvk you because they want the carnal pleasure.

At the end of the day, physically attractive men and women, want to have sex with other physically attractive men and women. I dont believe money gets a woman to be physically attracted to a man. It may allow her to let herself be screwed by the man, but its really all about what resources he can provide her. In my mind, I want to be fvked because the woman craves my physicality...not what she can mooch off of me.

This all said, I dont see this as a man vs woman thing, where one sex wins over the other. When its all said and done, the smart and attractive man or woman has it best. This is the person that makes sure they look sexy, is a good judge of character, and is self sufficient. A man or woman that does that will always be winning. Which means, stay in shape, learn how to figure out whos a good or bad person, and choose a career path that allows you to take care of yourself and lead a fun life.

And the problem with that chart is that it ignores the fact that hot young women, are mostly fvking hot young men. So I really would not consider 38 a mans peak if most of the hot young tail is being screwed by men in their 20s. Anyways, that chart comes from that part of the manosphere that always goes on and on about how lame women will have it in their 30s and how awesome men will have it. I dont waste my time sitting around and hoping that women will eventually get their comeuppance with age. Thats just typical wishful thinking by spiteful dudes in the manosphere. I care about enjoying my time and having fun no matter what my age.

EDIT - OP, honestly your 20s should be your sexual peak years of fun...especially your early 20s. Thats when youre usually in college, and its the easiest for a guy to date many women and have a lot of different sexual experiences. Youll be hard pressed to recreate the potential of your college years once youre in your late 30s. Have fun now...ignore the damn chart...screw the sports car, and just enjoy life. You dont need a sports car to have sex with hot girls. My buddy drives a minivan, and attractive women fawn over him at the gym all the time. You know what hes got? A hot body they want.

Nah. A fit 30 year old and a fit 20 year old is virtually indistinguishable in terms of looks. Men who are successful with women have more than just looks, they have confidence, self esteem, good social skills, all the things that we would consider "game." Clearly a fit, good looking 30 year old man is going to have more of those attributes than a 20 year old. He'll be able to run circles around the 20 year old in terms of picking up women and sustaining relationships. Young hot women are mostly fvcking hot young men because they're more available and there's simply not many attractive 30 year olds around. The SMV chart is an ideal but lets face it, most men don't do what they need to do to peak in their 30s. For a female to reach her SMV peak she simply has to exist and stay in shape, it happens naturally. A man has to put more work into it.

As far as the OP is concerned I voted men simply because men can take a more active role in changing their fate. Women are naturally the more passive sex. At the end of the day however this isn't something that we should dwell on. We should focus our efforts on being the best men we can be and not worry about what women are doing.

JdelaSilviera · Apr 3, 2014

Well in terms of looks, although you have to work for it, it's pretty much easier for a guy to stay good looking, because gray hairs and wrinkles can make you actually look better/more distinguished (Richard Gere Type) depending on your face. I've seen lots of males that look much better with their gray hair, as long it's not premature of course.. Also in terms of body shape, being 25, I envy some of the male PT's bodies in my gym some close to 50 yo.

Older female PT's don't stand a chance with the average 20 yo girl that goes to the gym...

Although it's clear for me, that sex is most of the time, and will always be, easier to women, even if they are 60 as we have seen. But the thing is really this, while the situation can get better in males in their 30's or 40's, women will never be more attractive than their 22-24 yo selves to the opposite sex.

zekko · Apr 3, 2014

I think it's kind of funny that "the end of the day" is considered to be in your 30s. I thought about voting for women winning because they live longer, and when they're 90, the guys will all be dead lol. But that isn't really about SMV, so I guess that isn't right. It just depends on how long the woman retains her looks and if the man has value or not.

HoneyHitter · Apr 3, 2014

On average: women.

The majority of women pair with men with a higher SMV than themselves. Our testosterone levels make it easy for them to keep the upperhand.

TheException · Apr 3, 2014

Ambitious Player said:
Wrong. I have had small amounts of success but some schools take greek life more seriously than others. The attractive girls are usually in sororities. Now don't get me wrong, I have been with some attractive girls before but they were usually not in sororities and those girls are harder to find.

So what if they are in sororities? Sorority girls still go to bars.....in fact since I was not in the greek scene....this is where I met all the sorority girls pal. You cant say things like "I cant because xyz". Its a self defeating mentality and a p1ss poor one at that.

Dont limit yourself with such thoughts....just realize it may not be as easy, but its far from impossible.

JoeMarron · Apr 3, 2014

HoneyHitter said:
On average: women.

The majority of women pair with men with a higher SMV than themselves. Our testosterone levels make it easy for them to keep the upperhand.

Men aren't suppose to be paring with women of higher SMV than themselves, we aren't hypergamous. The natural order of relationships is the man having a higher SMV. If a man has a lower SMV than his mate then he's submissive by default.

PairPlusRoyalFlush said:
I strongly agree with this, with the caveats that power and status(but not money) do turn women on sexually and that some men legitimately look physically better as they age.

So are you saying that you're on the same level as a dude who just got out of high school in terms of game? You have nearly an entire decade of experience on the 18 year old. Unless you've done absolutely nothing to progress during those years then your SMV is going to be higher. Everything else being equal, a thirty year old man will easily be able to have more success with women than a twenty year old.

Mike32ct · Apr 3, 2014

JoeMarron said:
Men aren't suppose to be paring with women of higher SMV than themselves, we aren't hypergamous. The natural order of relationships is the man having a higher SMV. If a man has a lower SMV than his mate then he's submissive by default.

So are you saying that you're on the same level as a dude who just got out of high school in terms of game? You have nearly an entire decade of experience on the 18 year old. Unless you've done absolutely nothing to progress during those years then your SMV is going to be higher. Everything else being equal, a thirty year old man will easily be able to have more success with women than a twenty year old.

As long as the 30 yo guy lies about his age. Plenty of young women consider 28-29 young and 30 old. It's hamster BS, but it happens. A low 30s guy that looks 20something and keeps his real age quiet can bhang low 20s girls.

I still think 30-31 is a game peak for men, but don't advertise the age if you want to F bar/club girls.

Icegreen · Apr 4, 2014

Everything in this video seems true:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDA7ZhHUYLk

Discuss?

zekko · Apr 4, 2014

PairPlusRoyalFlush said:
I strongly agree with this, with the caveats that power and status(but not money) do turn women on sexually and that some men legitimately look physically better as they age.

Money may not turn women on sexually, but men with money do. Having money can give you power and status. If you're a guy who has stayed in shape and knows how to have fun, a bit of money can only make you more appealing.

PairPlusRoyalFlush said:
Older guys that are able to loot and pillage hotties from the younger ranks need to come to terms with the high likelihood that they are fulfilling the role of a fetish, curiosity, daddy figure, or sugar daddy.

I really think that you may come to a different conclusion once you get into your 30s. You're seeing it from the perspective of a 27 year old. For a male, there's no reason why he can't look as good at 30 or even into his 40s as did when he was younger - or even better. Look at Johnny Depp, for instance. He looks pretty much the same at 50 as he ever has.

A lot of young guys look very manly, but a lot of young guys look very boyish also. There is some appeal for a woman to a man who looks manly vs. boyish. Also, older men can also have accomplishments, which add to his appeal.

A smart older man brings a younger woman into his world, which should be a much bigger world than she is used to seeing. I don't get this idea that they all have to lie and try to pass as 24. To my mind, that's exactly what they shouldn't be doing.

Jaylan · Apr 4, 2014

^Come on zekko. We all age. Some better than others, but we all get older. Johnny Depp looks like Johnny Depp. And women of varying ages find him attractive. But Im 27 too, and Ive heard women talk about how hot he was in Cry Baby or 21 Jump Street. Its not that he isnt attractive now...but he does look clearly different, and I could see the younger version of himself having different success with women.

That all said, I do agree that status adds to a mans appeal.

Jaylan · Apr 4, 2014

Danger said:
Johnny Depp has universal appeal because of status, power, celebrity etc,...

Zekko is on the nose. Women like older men for reasons other than money, often because with it comes more confidence, dominance, status, experience, and a more mature appearance.

Some women.

But like I said before, the chart in the OP is misleading...because at the end of the day, most young hot women, are fvking attractive youthful men. While I may still feel like an attractive man who can attract sexy women once I hit my 30s (and beyond)...I know its realistic that my 20s were the peak of my ability to screw hot young tail (especially during college).

I bring up college again, because those are the years that attractive young women are most willing to embrace their sexuality and go out and have fun (18 to 24 yr olds). For most of these women, once a guy is over 30, they see him as "old". Thats just how it goes, and Ive seen how these women react to dudes that age.

Thats just how it is. Hot young people screw other hot young people. It doesnt mean older people cant get in on the fun...its just the reality that like usually attracts like.

When it comes to the battle of SMV, who really wins in the end, men or women?

Who really wins the battle of SMV in the end?

Men

Women

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