Anybody Here Religious?

In my quest for going deeper into how our society is being overturn by feminism as well as the far left, I can't help but look deeper into Religion and it's overall affect on society.

There has got to be thousands of religions, which in the sense of the word "religion," the word stands for an "organized" collection of beliefs. The word organize is to put things in a particular "order". So in a nutshell, religion is nothing but a man created set of beliefs to organize and control a mass of people, making them think, act and behave in a certain way based on whatever the belief systems dictate.

Just about all of the Religions that are created, are based on a group of men saying that "God" told them something and gave them a set of ideals, then those men share their intimate secrets with other men, women and children through a Covenant or a Book (i.e. Holy Bible) and inform them that IF they don't follow the word of God, they would be doomed on Earth (lose blessings) or doomed in Death (go to hell) or both.

Furthermore, to be apart of the Religion, you have to just maintain "FAITH" which is to believe something without any substance, logic or expert analysis backing up the belief. And the reason you would just believe something without any substance, logic or expert analysis backing up the belief you might ask? Well, because God told the men that created the religion what the belief system was, and if you choose to NOT believe it then you are lashing out against God.

Listen, right now I consider myself a believer of God in that I do believe that intelligent design was associated with everything we have on Earth that SCIENCE has observed, studied, identified, tested and theorized. Science didn't create the Natural Sciences, Social Sciences, etc., but instead they just studied and observed them, then put them down as theory.

But what do you guys think Religion's role in America is on this Feminist movement, attack of Men, and the lost of the Family in general? The church is full with women, the pastor's sermons favor women, and with this Prosperity Gospel hyper-motivational sermons of "Health and Wealth if you just believe, pray and give to the ministry" it's almost as if not only has GOVERNMENT replaced the Man....but Church has as well. Why would a woman need a man if they can pray to "God" and he will bless her with health, wealth, BMWs, free college education, a $100k a year job, no sickness, no depression, no negatives at all? All she has to do is PRAY hard, worship hard, attend ministry services, and make sure she gives 10% of her GROSS (not adjusted but gross) income to the church before any taxes are paid.

Hmmm, well I guess I'll start this show.

I hate the word 'religion', basically because it trivializes Christianity, which I believe is correct. Why do I think that? Two reasons: 1 - The Bible is the only book while details fulfilled prophecy, and 2 - What God has done in my own life. If you want details, you'll just have to ask, because you simply cannot go into any real detail in a general fashion.

However, when looking at 'religion', I completely agree with you about how it appears to be used all over the world. Remember though that there is God and there are those who oppose God. It's really that simple. There IS a higher power, if not, what's the point? Moral code comes from somewhere, our conscience comes from somewhere. And no matter how much some humans may look like animals, we are not animals. We have souls inside of us. I don't think anyone can really argue with that unless they are just being argumentative.

Regarding your points about feminism and religion, I definitely believe that 'wolves in sheep's clothing' are out there promulgating different agendas under the premise of religion - and the hive-mind LOVES to use this hypocritical thinking against Christians. I can at least respect the muslims and atheists, even though I believe the muslims do deserve to die swift deaths (my own human judgement). There is much deceitfulness out there right now......that's why all Christianity should come from the Bible, the Word of God, rather than any church. It's up to all Christians to be able to discern the counterfeits.

Back to Christianity.....ever wonder why it's ALWAYS Christians being persecuted for their beliefs? The people in general who have things correct are going to be the ones chased, envied, and persecuted. That's why it's up to the Christians to spread Christianity, no more how terrible a group of people may seem to be. That's where I have the biggest problem. Hard for me to forgive killers/thieves. But in all honesty, they aren't the worst of the worst.....the worst are the counterfeits I mentioned above, who strike other Christian believers from the inside out.

I do think it's funny that a constant theme in the Judeo-Christian bible is that people as a whole are idiots, and anything created by mankind is doomed to imperfection. And that would of course include the church and organized religion.

Also hilarious to me is that the organized church was the enemy of Jesus. He called them holier-than-thou hypocrites until they eventually conspired with the Romans to have him executed. So today, the biggest buildings in every small town in America are Christian churches, which are of course usually full of holier-than-thou hypocrites. We worship a guy by turning ourselves into everything he preached against. It's like burning books in the name of Shakespeare or mob violence as a way to remember Ghandi.

Women who misbehave like any other woman but then try to play the good girl Christian card to wipe it away, and/or, they use their reputation as a Christian to sheild themselves from the bad behavior they committed; this is the tie I have noticed between Christianity and feminism.

I am Agnostic and believe a lot of the Christian Bible buti also struggle with it in this regard , all the way back to Mary and Joseph. Was Jesus the miraculous son of God or was Mary a cheating h0r who used her 'charm' to avoid getting stoned to death for cheating on Joseph? IMO i think Joseph was an AFC who didn't get credit for being father of one of the greatest sons that ever lived because he wasn't the father , but neither was God, some other alpha knight with bigger muscles was. Marys cheat like h0rs back then and Marys cheat today nothing has changed in 2014 years and it never will.

Dear Tenacity,
Religion is many things to many people....It is normally a healthy outlet,but sometimes gets out of control....I agree with your thoughts on an intelligent creator...I have been privileged to witness the miraculous Healing Power of some great natural power,through the catalyst of a Christian Healing Group,I have experienced and I am convinced.

I can't buy any of that hocus pocus, feel it caused way too many human death via war, and I think it separates people to this day. You meet a great perfect chick and she's Jewish, you're Catholic, so your families will drive wedges between you two because of some antiquated beliefs from 2,000 years ago. Get biological and scientific, it's the future.

for me, being religious is to just believe in good and do the good things for others.. it always gives me strength..
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Bible_Belt said:

He called them holier-than-thou hypocrites until they eventually conspired with the Romans to have him executed.

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And it only took a couple hundred years for the Romans to hijack the "anti-religion" religion and make it an official state religion. The Nicene Creed, which is still recited by Catholics every Sunday, was written by a bunch of politicians who did a good job figuring out how to leverage the existing religion for political control.

Dear Taiyuu,
Paul Hijacked the Religion,why do you see him as a Roman? he was a Greek Turk...Surely it was the Greek Philosophers who were responsible for Constantines Conversion?certainly for the Nicene creed?

Faith is an interesting topic.

I consider myself a rational man with a scientific background, but I am also a devout believer in Christ and the message of the Gospel . These two things are not generally considered intellectually compatible by the scientific community or even most adults with post-graduate education. I have been in numerous "arguments" with die-hard atheists and self-professed skeptics, and for the most part they are very circular with neither one of us being moved at all by the other's assertions. The reason why is the distinction between faith and reason is often not respected and many rational, educated people find it difficult to believe in the concept of a God--much less a loving God--that has no supporting physical or empirical evidence by human standards.

As to my thoughts on the issue, demanding "evidence" for God is kind of an oxymoron if you think about it. If God is real, then who are we in our finite understanding to demand proof of such an omnipotent being? Skeptics always point to the historical errors in the Bible and the dubious nature of supernatural events. First of all, historical errors in the Bible are old news to all Judeo-Christian scholars, and this is not the basis of our faith. There is nothing that can or will satisfy skeptics regarding the historical accuracy of supernatural events in the Bible. What would constitute acceptable evidence of the resurrection of Christ, for example? Whenever I ask this question to a skeptic I get no answer, and that's because they don't have one. Even as a Christian myself, I get it. If you are operating on the assumption that the null hypothesis is true---that Jesus didn't exist or that Jesus was not raised from the dead---then there really is nothing in a historical context that would convince you otherwise. Corroborative literature from that time period? No way. That can always be explained away as misidentification, misinterpretation, or even cult of personality. Physical evidence? What exactly would constitute physical evidence for a man's resurrection 2,000 years ago? You either take this matter on faith, or you don't. Looking for "evidence" is a wild goose chase.


The one thing, the ONLY thing, that can truly lead to a life-altering belief in God is personal experience. And a personal experience, no matter how profound to the individual, cannot truly be considered "proof" to to others. That doesn't make it any less real to YOU or to ME, it's just not something you can rely on to convince others. They need to experience God in their own way, in their own time.

When Christians say that faith is based on a personal relationship with God and their experiences, they are not wrong. People can believe secondhand experiences or take the Bible at face value, but personal experience is probably the most genuine way that faith can occur, and the only way to honestly convey your faith to a non-believer. You will never win a rational debate about the existence of God, or the Gospel of Jesus. You are approaching it from the wrong standpoint. Christians can enjoy a much more harmonious coexistence with atheists if we are intellectually honest about our faith and stop trying to convince them they are wrong. People are much more moved by ACTIONS, or by the example of someone else's story and how they live their life than having particular faith shoved down their throats as the ultimate truth.


As to the topic of religion...well I agree with speed dawg that religion is a bit of a misnomer and trivializes Christian faith. It was never intended as a "religion". It became that way through a long line of fearful, greedy, and misguided individuals throughout history who had power.
I think religion can be a very healthy structure for many people---it gives them moral boundaries, some faith in the process of life and death and encourages kindness to others. However, it can be taken to violent and toxic extremes. Look at the extremist factions of Islam---they are arguably responsible for more hate, death, and destruction that any other established religion today.

Religious Christianity has not been exempt from toxic extremes, but most of this was in the dark ages of history when there was a lot of biblical misinterpretation, fear and superstition and when the church was a large and hugely powerful entity with massive political influence.

I think Christians are---worldwide---probably more hated, insulted, and persecuted than any other faith. And look at the fruits of Christianity!!! Sure there are a few extremist groups like the Westboro Baptist idiots, but for the most part Christians are a hugely positive force in this world. We are responsible for more charitable giving, humanitarian aid, and unconditional kindness than any other major religion. And look at the fruits of Islam----death, poverty, destruction, genocide, terrorism.....where are all the moderate Muslims in this? Where is there public outcry that this is not true Islam?

I think Western Christians often get a bad name because non-Christians look at us and see us living the same lives as everyone else, yet still professing the moral superiority of our beliefs when we get offended or there is a hot topic. It's kind of sad, because it further trivializes our faith to non-Christians.

Not religious, grew up in a Jewish/Catholic household (talk about guilt).

Religion was created initially to explain man's creation hence the reason that we see so many different religions. There are many different stories that are versions tailed to a particular religion.

Do I believe in a higher divinity? Sure, but it's not a specific divinity or divinities.

I'm somewhat amused by the Greek and Roman gods and think they have better stories than the Old Testament/New Testament

Scaramouche said:

Dear Taiyuu,
Paul Hijacked the Religion,why do you see him as a Roman? he was a Greek Turk...Surely it was the Greek Philosophers who were responsible for Constantines Conversion?certainly for the Nicene creed?

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Well, you might say that Paul CREATED (changed, hijacked, whatever) the religion, since he was the dude in the early days doing all the heavy lifting. Half the New Testament is his stuff.

As for Constantine, who knows. Legend says he looked into the sun (Battle of Milvian Bridge, 312) and was convinced.

But the The Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed (381) which was the rewritten and now simply called "Nicene Creed" was heavily influenced by politicians.

Basically they took what was already a more or less official state religion, and put their government stamp of approval, thereby claiming ownership.

However you slice it, it (pre-Paul Christianity) was an organic, grass roots movement that was hijacked by political leaders for control purposes.

Just like everything else.

I've never been much of a fan of Paul. But if he wanted to be like Jesus, his legacy was certainly exploited and used for the wrong reasons.

The Church has always been anti-sex, and Corinthians I & II contain the verses that are usually quoted to make the sex is evil argument. But the context of the writings is completely ignored. Paul wrote those letters to Corinth because many of their people were attending "goddess worship" ceremonies that were basically wh0rehouses. If you paid your offering, you got to fvck a temple wh0re in a big orgy. That's how they attracted followers to their religion. And that's what Paul meant by being sexually immoral. He wasn't talking about sex outside of marriage. And considering there were no condoms or antibiotics back then, the advice to not bareback wh0res is some unarguable wisdom.

Imagine if churches were like that today - "come to church, pay a little money, and we guarantee you some pvssy." Make that offer and every church would be an overflowing madhouse of desperate guys.

The Song of Solomon in the old testament is very clear that sex is a gift from god. If he made us, then obviously he made sex, too.

Bible_Belt said:

I've never been much of a fan of Paul. But if he wanted to be like Jesus, his legacy was certainly exploited and used for the wrong reasons.

The Church has always been anti-sex, and Corinthians I & II contain the verses that are usually quoted to make the sex is evil argument. But the context of the writings is completely ignored. Paul wrote those letters to Corinth because many of their people were attending "goddess worship" ceremonies that were basically wh0rehouses. If you paid your offering, you got to fvck a temple wh0re in a big orgy. That's how they attracted followers to their religion. And that's what Paul meant by being sexually immoral. He wasn't talking about sex outside of marriage. And considering there were no condoms or antibiotics back then, the advice to not bareback wh0res is some unarguable wisdom.

Imagine if churches were like that today - "come to church, pay a little money, and we guarantee you some pvssy." Make that offer and every church would be an overflowing madhouse of desperate guys.

The Song of Solomon in the old testament is very clear that sex is a gift from god. If he made us, then obviously he made sex, too.

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these mother****ers were on to something lol. dudes would be going to sleep at 6pm o saturday lol to wake up in time for church if that was the case today. "dude i got to go to church"

And think of the economic impact. The work force would double in size, because suddenly making just a little money would guarantee a guy that he got laid. Guys who never wanted to work before would be knocking on doors, asking to mow the yard or rake the leaves for just enough money to make the required weekly offering at church.

The churches would have to start buying hotel chains, so they had all the rooms they needed. But they'd probably be the biggest business on Earth, so they'd have the money. I'd like to think that the priests wouldn't rape little boys if we let them fvck the temple wh0res.

Great discussion guys. I've currently been studying a concept known as Esoteric Science, which believes that spirituality and science are two sides of the same coin. Lee Bladon has a great book about this concept. I think the issue with church/religion is that it's not complete, just as the issue with science is that it's not complete.

If you talk to a person that's apart of an organized religion or a Christian, they will tell you that God is everything and ALL you need to do is have faith, pray, attend ministry services, and tithe 10% of your GROSS income, then God will take care of EVERYTHING for you in life or at the very least provide you financial blessings. Well, that sounds like magic to me, sort of like rubbing the genie's lamp in Aladdin and blue genie is going to pop out and takes care of my every wish and need.

Certainly this form of promotion by the church CAN'T be true, as those in power came into power due to firstly creating a free market culture within the country. Secondly, they created the laws and regulations of that free market inconjunction with political figures. Thirdly, they created the banking system to control the flow of monetary means and capital. On top of this, everything from the global connections, internal networks, etc. allow for those in power to STAY in power. That power gives them stores of capital, equity and monetary resources, those financial resources allows them to BUY anything, CREATE anything, PROMOTE anything, and PROGRAM the masses of people to think the way they "want them to think".

Nothing included with that power structure had anything to do with giving money to a church, praying to God, having faith, or anything. It's all strategic planning, political power, banking power, and economic supply/demand.

As a result, as I mentioned I do believe there's a creator, I'm just not sure that he/she/it has ANY active involvement in our daily "needs". How can someone receive the "blessings" of God in terms of financial prosperity, unless they are firstly LIVING in a free market system with a government structure that allows for the liberty of one to pursue their own definition of "happiness" which in this example, would be financial blessings?

I believe that there's aspects to life that exist outside of this one, as Science has even discovered the "black hole" which they have no idea what's there or what's forming it. Plus there's no way we would have evolved from a monkey, as if that were the case, how would any monkey still exist today? Wouldn't every monkey be a human being? And the "big bang" in the sky makes no sense either, you can't get what's discovered through study in Science unless there was intelligent design involved.

In a nutshell, Religion is like a cartoon comic strip, sorry. It's a man-made structure designed to control the minds of people based on "supposed" wordings in a book from a supernatural being but the words in the book (bible) NEVER came from God. Those words are from the men who wrote those chapters. Isn't it easy then, for ANY man to do the same thing and get people to believe the supernatural "told" him everything he wrote down? Of course, that's why you have thousands of religions that are FULL of contradictions because it's MAN-MADE. How could the Creator "write" such a book, that contradicts itself over and over and over again?

Science isn't a religion, it's observation. What science needs to do is go further to discover more on what's truly going on and where did all of this come from. It's made great strides, but it has to do more. When Science continues to develop, I think ONE DAY we might as "living beings" stand close to our "Creator" without needing to die to do so. All Science has to do is keep researching, studying, and trying to find wherever this Creator is.

Tenacity said:

Great discussion guys. I've currently been studying a concept known as Esoteric Science, which believes that spirituality and science are two sides of the same coin. Lee Bladon has a great book about this concept. I think the issue with church/religion is that it's not complete, just as the issue with science is that it's not complete.

If you talk to a person that's apart of an organized religion or a Christian, they will tell you that God is everything and ALL you need to do is have faith, pray, attend ministry services, and tithe 10% of your GROSS income, then God will take care of EVERYTHING for you in life or at the very least provide you financial blessings. Well, that sounds like magic to me, sort of like rubbing the genie's lamp in Aladdin and blue genie is going to pop out and takes care of my every wish and need.

Certainly this form of promotion by the church CAN'T be true, as those in power came into power due to firstly creating a free market culture within the country. Secondly, they created the laws and regulations of that free market inconjunction with political figures. Thirdly, they created the banking system to control the flow of monetary means and capital. On top of this, everything from the global connections, internal networks, etc. allow for those in power to STAY in power. That power gives them stores of capital, equity and monetary resources, those financial resources allows them to BUY anything, CREATE anything, PROMOTE anything, and PROGRAM the masses of people to think the way they "want them to think".

Nothing included with that power structure had anything to do with giving money to a church, praying to God, having faith, or anything. It's all strategic planning, political power, banking power, and economic supply/demand.

As a result, as I mentioned I do believe there's a creator, I'm just not sure that he/she/it has ANY active involvement in our daily "needs". How can someone receive the "blessings" of God in terms of financial prosperity, unless they are firstly LIVING in a free market system with a government structure that allows for the liberty of one to pursue their own definition of "happiness" which in this example, would be financial blessings?

I believe that there's aspects to life that exist outside of this one, as Science has even discovered the "black hole" which they have no idea what's there or what's forming it. Plus there's no way we would have evolved from a monkey, as if that were the case, how would any monkey still exist today? Wouldn't every monkey be a human being? And the "big bang" in the sky makes no sense either, you can't get what's discovered through study in Science unless there was intelligent design involved.

In a nutshell, Religion is like a cartoon comic strip, sorry. It's a man-made structure designed to control the minds of people based on "supposed" wordings in a book from a supernatural being but the words in the book (bible) NEVER came from God. Those words are from the men who wrote those chapters. Isn't it easy then, for ANY man to do the same thing and get people to believe the supernatural "told" him everything he wrote down? Of course, that's why you have thousands of religions that are FULL of contradictions because it's MAN-MADE. How could the Creator "write" such a book, that contradicts itself over and over and over again?

Science isn't a religion, it's observation. What science needs to do is go further to discover more on what's truly going on and where did all of this come from. It's made great strides, but it has to do more. When Science continues to develop, I think ONE DAY we might as "living beings" stand close to our "Creator" without needing to die to do so. All Science has to do is keep researching, studying, and trying to find wherever this Creator is.

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The Church has been pumping the ideal that if you do xyz you will go to heaven because they need to get paid. Indulgences if you will.

People fear the idea of freewill even though many scream that they detest the concept of destiny. The fear comes from idea that they could end up like the homeless guy on the street. After all somehow people become the homeless guy/woman somehow.

Church is there to provide guilt absolution and a feeling that because you are part of a group you are some how more special/more enlightened/more spiritual/more in tune etc. than those who are not members.

Science continues to grow as greater technologies become available to assist in translating conceptualized ideas into reality.

Think about using DNA to catch criminals for a moment. 125 years nobody likely could conceptualize an idea.

Science can't answer certain questions because the tools aren't yet available, and some of the questions we cannot currently conceptualize because the concept hasn't been brought to the forefront.

I don't believe in gods. I wish I could but I have no evidence and no personal life changing experience. So I don't. That being said, I have a cynical view that the masses need religion. It provides an extra layer of social cohesion and control. I believe the masses need to be controlled. I believe a person is smart.
People are dumb unless they all fear the right things. I believe it's easier to train stupid people into doing the best things for society with supernatural threats.

That being said, I believe morals and basic rules of all codes/religions are hardwired into our DNA. The baboon who won't climb a tree to look out for the lion is not going to last long in the tribe. We see moral behavior in animals constantly. I think evolution has hardwired it into us how to behave in a group as mammals for maximum survival. I think when you combine that with language and budding intelligence you get religion to explain both science and existential questions. As intelligence and populations grow those mammalian group dynamics develop into religion as an extra layer of control for larger smarter group. I think what ever thing in our brain allows us to join a hierarchy and follow the will and social norms of the tribe is the same thing that allows us to believe in crazy fairy tales that will change in a few centuries. It's for the good of the tribe and in our DNA is the code for why we do it.

That being said, either us non-believers are defective tribesmen or possibly an evolutionary step. Of course I would like to believe that I'm an evolutionary step but that's just my ego talking. I'm not much of a group follower. I'm probably a defective tribesman who would end up going his own way. It's pretty much what I have always done. But those who go their own way may learn something new to bring back to the tribe.

The_411 said:

The Church has been pumping the ideal that if you do xyz you will go to heaven because they need to get paid. Indulgences if you will.

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I think those indulgences are a secondary benefit. I think the primary reason / cause for religion was for a small group of people to control a large group of people.

People fear the idea of freewill even though many scream that they detest the concept of destiny. The fear comes from idea that they could end up like the homeless guy on the street. After all somehow people become the homeless guy/woman somehow.

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My favorite line from Dostoevsky's "Brother's Karamazov" is, "What good is freedom if obedience can be bought with bread?"

Church is there to provide guilt absolution and a feeling that because you are part of a group you are some how more special/more enlightened/more spiritual/more in tune etc. than those who are not members.

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The reason for church is to provide the elite means to control. People join for the same reason, only they're a step down on the rung from the top.

Anything as big and widespread as religion could only exist if it provided many different benefits to many different people.

• Elites get control.
  
• Regular members get imagined social status.
  
• The poor/disadvantaged get promise of eternal relief.
  
• Sinners get absolution.
  
• Lonely people get fellowship.
  
• All kinds of folks get tax benefits from donations.
  
• Underachievers don't have to feel so bad as it's "God's Plan"

Bottom line it provides a LOT to a LOT of people. Even pure atheists might find some of the benefits worthwhile.

Science can't answer certain questions because the tools aren't yet available, and some of the questions we cannot currently conceptualize because the concept hasn't been brought to the forefront.

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We are however, limited in our cognitive functions, as our brains evolved to see / hear / think in terms of certain sizes and classes of objects / energy systems. It's not only the tools that are lacking, it's the cognitive ability.

kellyvincen said:

for me, being religious is to just believe in good and do the good things for others.. it always gives me strength..
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You don't religion for that.