The "Red Pill" vs. "Blue Pill" divide

I'm new here but I've been a red piller for a while now. I know its a stupid expression, but its the fastest way to explain my belief system.

On this site there is an obvious divide between men who still believe in the old "all women are amazing" hype compared to men who feel today's women bring little to the table and are good for little outside of getting off.

One thing that can't be denied is "red pill" philosophy is consistently growing. Generally (and according to history) belief systems become less popular the easier they are to prove wrong. So clearly, if the "red pill" is wrong, people suck at proving it.

I'm actually interested in hearing more of the logic behind the blue pill. Why would you have the same belief system as a Hollywood chick flick? How do today's men STILL manage to be blue pill for any length of time?

While I'm obviously apart of the Red Pill/MGTOW crowd from my posts, I could shed some light as to why MOST guys are still Blue Pill if you don't mind?

It's very easy to sit up and talk about being independent, having a core belief system without caving in, and truly standing against what you believe is wrong and standing for what you deem is right. Doing such means that most of the time, you will have to TURN your back on everything that you were familiar with before, including those "closest" to you. In other words.....you are going to PISS off everybody around you if you truly follow MGTOW and the Red Pill.

For most guys, it's too much. So they cave in and try to find the best piece of shyt out of a pile of shyt to work with (i.e., trying to find the one woman that they could hopefully make this work with out of all of the others that make it impossible).

Me personally, it wasn't hard for me to become MGTOW because my life had already pushed me into a pseudo-MGTOW anyway. I have no family structure, and I have been pretty much a "loner" all of my life for the most part. So I'm the type of person today, where either I'm going to be the leader of a group or the outcast of it, there's no in-between, there's no "fitting in" or anything of the sort.

Men who are able to be Red Pill members and follow MGTOW are loners and leaders for the most part, and will find it hard to "fit in" with any organized group in general as they just won't be able to stomach the "bullshyt" without speaking up and of course...pissing off everybody within the group who are sold on the programming. Most men go along to get along, and don't want to piss anybody off. That's why they are Blue Pill and that's why the Family Court will continue to run rampant throughout our society screwing over the lives of men because they are WAY TOO scared to truly be independent and walk alone. Don't get me wrong, most of these Blue Pill guys (whether they want to admit it or not) will silently nod their head to the points I make about the system itself...but they must maintain their position in life and thus, they must remain silent in their approval.

These Blue Pill guys, most of them anyway, have something to lose in terms of pissing off their family and community who actually GIVE A DAMN about them in some form or fashion. So going Red Pill might cause those people to pull away from that guy and he might not be able to afford that. Me on the other hand, coming from NO family structure, NO community structure and pretty much for the previous 31 years it's been me v.s. the world.....it's EASIER for a guy like me to become MGTOW and "walk away from the Matrix" because technically, I never had a full Matrix over me to begin with.

You have to have loved and lost before you can realize how temporary and fleeting love typically is.

By the way, The Matrix was written by the Wachovski brothers...who are now the Wachovski brother and sister. They didn't make up the story - they sponsored a writing competition and that story was the winner. They legally stole it and used it as their own. It was originally written by a black woman, which makes sense to me because the Oracle was a black woman.

rollo tomassi has a topic on this check it out!

everyone on sosuave should read this!! its a must read..

http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

OP, the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" discusses this at length, but as I recall, the main points were:
1) industrialization has led to men "going off" to work rather than staying home and working the ranch. Therefore a little boy has fewer male influences to emulate during the day
2) The education system is dominated by females. So men become used to taking instructions from females and a very early age. In seeking female approval
3) The feminist movement and the whole concept of men getting in touch with your feminine side was actively forced on society in the 60s in early 70s leaving in indelible mark.

MOTU said:

OP, the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" discusses this at length, but as I recall, the main points were:
1) industrialization has led to men "going off" to work rather than staying home and working the ranch. Therefore a little boy has fewer male influences to emulate during the day
2) The education system is dominated by females. So men become used to taking instructions from females and a very early age. In seeking female approval
3) The feminist movement and the whole concept of men getting in touch with your feminine side was actively forced on society in the 60s in early 70s leaving in indelible mark.

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This is classic representation of exactly what I saw growing up. By the time I was 8 or 9, society switched to fem values, bla bla bla and it just escalated. By the time I was 16 this made it tougher to date/get along with the gals, as it was rubbing off on them from home. And in '85 the first signs of political correctness made its view. Then in the 90's the workplace was trashed with fem leadership, and the fem workers embraced it tightly. Since then it has done nothing but get uglier than h*ll...just my lifelong observation.

The reason that there is such a big divide is because quite frankly, blue pill works. If there were no men having sex because you had to be red pill to get any sex, men would be red pill en masse.


There are also other factors at play. For instance I generally, generally, do not talk about my political beliefs on this site because I don't want the message to get distorted, but IRL I'm quite republican. The republican party / beliefs are things that for the most part I believe in. I believe in small government, I believe in traditional family roles, I believe in a fair tax that taxes me for the services that I use, but doesn't use my money to take care of everyone else.


People assume that because I'm black I must be a democrat, and therein lies the problem with the party that I vote for. So on real political sites, that i do visit, I have to defend my party for the views that some people hold that are out of touch with society and thus, making everyone throw out the baby with the bath water.


I don't think anyone, for the most part, is anti men having a backbone, men becoming better men, having more self confidence, finding interesting hobbies. I think that even most women who are sane would agree that there are some scandalous women out there and that men fr the most part have to wise up and make better decisions. I have conversations with my wife and her friends all the time about skanks and the stuff they do and they always side with me and will agree *****es ain't **** lol.


The problem is that you have men who are just anti women, who distort the message of the red pill, who are anti women getting ahead at all, who slut shame, who try to treat women like they are inferior creatures and what not, and it makes a normal dude, who has a reasonable amount of success with women without the red pill, look at it and throw the entire thing out.


It's not so much the message as much as it is the messenger. I can have a talk with one of my wife's friends and explain to her in so many words hey, you have to understand that all relationships are built on sex. You can't use sex as a bargaining tool and expect to have a healthy relationship, if you like the guy and you are sexually attracted to the guy, and the guy makes a move he will not think of you as a slut if you have sex with him. You can't punish a guy that wants to have sex with you that you like for the mistakes of your past by sleeping with guys who wren't worth you sleeping iwth. I've had this conversation with my wife's friends and it worked and they understood my point of view.

But if that same woman came here and read some of the virtol out of some of the mouths here about **** carousels and **** lol she'd put a chastity belt on lol

This stuff is not rocket science.

Liberalism, feminism, sexism, racism, gays, all the other equalisms that promote equality are simply ANTI-LIFE. That is the difference. I am purposely staying out of religion on this, so I'll just describe it that way. A thriving society works best with a strong family structure, correct gender roles and moral principles. Those things promote LIFE.

That was normal, then things got twisted. Blue pill was born because people began experimenting with things for their own satisfactions and desires, instead of the betterment of the whole. In essence, people began to think they were smarter than LIFE. So they separate from LIFE. Homosexuality, gender equality, feminism, racism, socialism......all these things lead to eradication. They simply are not sustainable. The message is to fall victim to YOUR selfish desires. Experiment with LIFE, entertain ideas that are unnatural.

The red pill is simply the movement back towards what people THOUGHT was normal. But since morals have eroded, the red pill is almost as much of a selfish idea as the blue pill. We have guys in the manosphere that do not wish to marry and have a family, but at their core, they are correct as far as masculinity is concerned.

Anyways, you see how it all spirals downhill. The root of all of this is sin, separation from God (or morals, for all you God-haters), who gives Life.

backbreaker said:

The reason that there is such a big divide is because quite frankly, blue pill works. If there were no men having sex because you had to be red pill to get any sex, men would be red pill en masse.


There are also other factors at play. For instance I generally, generally, do not talk about my political beliefs on this site because I don't want the message to get distorted, but IRL I'm quite republican. The republican party / beliefs are things that for the most part I believe in. I believe in small government, I believe in traditional family roles, I believe in a fair tax that taxes me for the services that I use, but doesn't use my money to take care of everyone else.


People assume that because I'm black I must be a democrat, and therein lies the problem with the party that I vote for. So on real political sites, that i do visit, I have to defend my party for the views that some people hold that are out of touch with society and thus, making everyone throw out the baby with the bath water.


I don't think anyone, for the most part, is anti men having a backbone, men becoming better men, having more self confidence, finding interesting hobbies. I think that even most women who are sane would agree that there are some scandalous women out there and that men fr the most part have to wise up and make better decisions. I have conversations with my wife and her friends all the time about skanks and the stuff they do and they always side with me and will agree *****es ain't **** lol.


The problem is that you have men who are just anti women, who distort the message of the red pill, who are anti women getting ahead at all, who slut shame, who try to treat women like they are inferior creatures and what not, and it makes a normal dude, who has a reasonable amount of success with women without the red pill, look at it and throw the entire thing out.


It's not so much the message as much as it is the messenger. I can have a talk with one of my wife's friends and explain to her in so many words hey, you have to understand that all relationships are built on sex. You can't use sex as a bargaining tool and expect to have a healthy relationship, if you like the guy and you are sexually attracted to the guy, and the guy makes a move he will not think of you as a slut if you have sex with him. You can't punish a guy that wants to have sex with you that you like for the mistakes of your past by sleeping with guys who wren't worth you sleeping iwth. I've had this conversation with my wife's friends and it worked and they understood my point of view.

But if that same woman came here and read some of the virtol out of some of the mouths here about **** carousels and **** lol she'd put a chastity belt on lol

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Women are inferior. I they were equal why do they need so many laws that give them more security and guarantees in life.

Why are divorce courts, or any courts, generally in their favor.

Why are there sexual harassment laws in the work place?

Why are there laws requiring companies to employee a certain amount of women?
.
Why do women require feminism, if they are so equally skilled in life they shouldn't need a group.

So many laws are bias against men because they are either written that way or exercised that way.

Your experience with your wife is literally only relevant and important to you and if she is by chance an exception, actual or perceived, she is simply not a rule of thumb for any one else including you to judge other women by. It is ridiculous for you to try and convince any one on this site that a successful marriage or ltr is possible because 1. Men on here who don't agree with you, certainly will continue not agreeing with you and if they decided on their own, they already decided it. 2. Trying to convince a newly unplugged guy, or afc of this is giving him false hope and an excuse to get taken advantage of again.

You should really be promoting these new members self preservation not that the "one" is possible. Not every guy needs a wife or ltr, so stop trying to justify you're personal choice by telling others its the right way to treat women.

To me the Red Pill is also more of a RESPONSE rather than an REACTION to the situation at hand.

The Red Pill members have conducted critical thought and have came up with a plan for protection. The opting out procedures that are done are NOT done in a reactive type of stance based on anger, or disappointment, or because "some girl broke our heart" which is what many women and feminists accuse us of.

Red Pill Members are responding with logical, rational and efficient planning to be able to effectively survive in today's new world.

We didn't create this world. We didn't create the Family Court System and we didn't create the FACT that women just do not have any reason to be loyal to us anymore. The moment a woman isn't "happy" and being "entertained" the way she prefers....she can easily leave and take ALL of our hard fought assets with her.

It's hard to be a successful man today. You have to spend years in a college system racking up debt, then you have to spend years working in lower paying positions to build up experience. Once you have FINALLY arrived and are now making the great income, here comes this "chick" talking about how marriage is so important and making kids are so important. That same "chick" will leave you in 10 years and financially SET YOU BACK from all of the hard work that put you ahead of the pack.

It's too much to lose. The market is destroyed. Red Pill is about a RESPONSE not a reaction.

Plus I truly believe you are HAPPIER outside of marriage in 2014/2015 than within it. I truly believe that. You are much more free, you can truly enjoy the benefits of women and eliminate the DRAWBACKS of women, and you can enjoy life for what it's worth until you die.

Poon King said:

I'm new here but I've been a red piller for a while now. I know its a stupid expression, but its the fastest way to explain my belief system.

On this site there is an obvious divide between men who still believe in the old "all women are amazing" hype compared to men who feel today's women bring little to the table and are good for little outside of getting off.

One thing that can't be denied is "red pill" philosophy is consistently growing. Generally (and according to history) belief systems become less popular the easier they are to prove wrong. So clearly, if the "red pill" is wrong, people suck at proving it.

I'm actually interested in hearing more of the logic behind the blue pill. Why would you have the same belief system as a Hollywood chick flick? How do today's men STILL manage to be blue pill for any length of time?

Click to expand...

It's literally because of this. Which is the main reason why we get trolls on here spouting the nonsense they do. For example maybe they believe in red pill but are married or in an ltr, where they respect their woman.

Cognitive dissonance: is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it (or influence the source of the information to something more comfortable to them, like spouting purple pill (red mixed with blue pill)).

I think a good distinction between "Red Pill" and "Blue Pill" is the childhood mindset vs. the adult mindset.

Children (or those with a child hood mindset) believe there is ALWAYS some kind of "higher power" that should "take care of people" and "fix society" so it's more fair.

These folks will NEVER take full responsibility for ANYTHING. It's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. It's ALWAYS somebody else's responsibility to feed them, protect them, etc.

On the other hand, those few who have an ADULT mindset realize that the ONLY way they are going to get what they want, need and desire is through their OWN ACTIONS. (which requires plenty of risk and uncertainty).

They KNOW that nobody owes them shyte, and the ONLY WAY somebody will "give" them something is they "give" something in exchange.

This is precisely why ancient societies had ceremonies to KILL the child, and bring out the adult.

Unfortunately, as Backbreaker mentioned, BLUE PILL works fine for most men and women in today's society. They "give" authority over to others in exchange for a few morsels (food, sex, shelter, whatever).

The Path from Blue Pill to Red Pill is similar to those "welfare cliffs" where somebody who's making 20K a year (plus govt support) would have to increase that up to 60K a year to make up for all the "benefits" they are getting from the government.

This concept has been talked about since the dawn of time.

Freedom and Personal Responsibility vs. Protection (free stuff) and Servitude

My favorite quote of all time comes from The Grand Inquisitor:

"What good is freedom if obedience can be bought with bread?"

What good is the Red Pill if Blue Pill can get you social safety and occasional sex from an angry feminist?

"Blue pill" thinking is so persistent in today's society for much the same reason as religion. It's a comfortable self-delusion. Deep down, most people who go to church/synagogue/mosque etc. know that it's all basically a fairly tale. But they go along with it because it gives their lives a certain familiar framework. Same with blue pill mentality. It is something that many have been raised with, and giving it up requires a complete ideological rearrangement. And that's not an easy thing to do.

backbreaker said:

The reason that there is such a big divide is because quite frankly, blue pill works. If there were no men having sex because you had to be red pill to get any sex, men would be red pill en masse.


There are also other factors at play. For instance I generally, generally, do not talk about my political beliefs on this site because I don't want the message to get distorted, but IRL I'm quite republican. The republican party / beliefs are things that for the most part I believe in. I believe in small government, I believe in traditional family roles, I believe in a fair tax that taxes me for the services that I use, but doesn't use my money to take care of everyone else.


People assume that because I'm black I must be a democrat, and therein lies the problem with the party that I vote for. So on real political sites, that i do visit, I have to defend my party for the views that some people hold that are out of touch with society and thus, making everyone throw out the baby with the bath water.


I don't think anyone, for the most part, is anti men having a backbone, men becoming better men, having more self confidence, finding interesting hobbies. I think that even most women who are sane would agree that there are some scandalous women out there and that men fr the most part have to wise up and make better decisions. I have conversations with my wife and her friends all the time about skanks and the stuff they do and they always side with me and will agree *****es ain't **** lol.


The problem is that you have men who are just anti women, who distort the message of the red pill, who are anti women getting ahead at all, who slut shame, who try to treat women like they are inferior creatures and what not, and it makes a normal dude, who has a reasonable amount of success with women without the red pill, look at it and throw the entire thing out.


It's not so much the message as much as it is the messenger. I can have a talk with one of my wife's friends and explain to her in so many words hey, you have to understand that all relationships are built on sex. You can't use sex as a bargaining tool and expect to have a healthy relationship, if you like the guy and you are sexually attracted to the guy, and the guy makes a move he will not think of you as a slut if you have sex with him. You can't punish a guy that wants to have sex with you that you like for the mistakes of your past by sleeping with guys who wren't worth you sleeping iwth. I've had this conversation with my wife's friends and it worked and they understood my point of view.

But if that same woman came here and read some of the virtol out of some of the mouths here about **** carousels and **** lol she'd put a chastity belt on lol

Click to expand...

Well thought-out response. I see what you're trying to say.. but I think you lack some perspective here. The reality is.. the blue pill "works" until it doesn't.

I think a good analogy for the blue pill is driving your car without a seat belt. It works until it doesn't. You're fine until you run into something. If you're lucky enough to never run into anything then you can say driving a car without a seat belt works! Doesn't make it smart though.

Likewise... as long as a woman doesn't take advantage of her powers given by society and the law to destroy your life.. you will believe the blue pill works. Blind luck really.

And this (for me) is the main difference between the blue pill and the red pill. The red pill means taking as much "luck" out of the equation as possible. The blue pill is going to Vegas and putting your life savings on Red at the roulette table. The red pill is taking control of your life and not putting that power in the hands of others.

At least that's my perspective. And pointing out the extremist loonies who want to see women's heads on a stick is not saying much. You have just as many extreme blue pillers who hate men. Screw the extremes.. lets focus on the underlining philosophy shall we?

speed dawg said:

This stuff is not rocket science.

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Absolutely agreed! Some dudes on here think it's all equations and bullcrap they think will form a rather sh!tty conclusion on this is the end all be all with women. If you just take care of yourself and try to be social, you will be very successful in your dating. YOU WILL NATURALLY PICK UP SEDUCTION ALONG THE WAY. No more Alpha-Beta, no more RedPill-BluePill, no more sh!tty analysis on women behavior. Come on, just live life the way you want, by your own means instead of countless hours studying the opposite sex and trying to formulate a perfect plan. That's like someone reading 1,000's of NFL playbooks and think they can play football. In reality, they are just armchair QB's.

speed dawg said:

Liberalism, feminism, sexism, racism, gays, all the other equalisms that promote equality are simply ANTI-LIFE. That is the difference. I am purposely staying out of religion on this, so I'll just describe it that way. A thriving society works best with a strong family structure, correct gender roles and moral principles. Those things promote LIFE.

That was normal, then things got twisted. Blue pill was born because people began experimenting with things for their own satisfactions and desires, instead of the betterment of the whole. In essence, people began to think they were smarter than LIFE. So they separate from LIFE. Homosexuality, gender equality, feminism, racism, socialism......all these things lead to eradication. They simply are not sustainable. The message is to fall victim to YOUR selfish desires. Experiment with LIFE, entertain ideas that are unnatural.

The red pill is simply the movement back towards what people THOUGHT was normal. But since morals have eroded, the red pill is almost as much of a selfish idea as the blue pill. We have guys in the manosphere that do not wish to marry and have a family, but at their core, they are correct as far as masculinity is concerned.

Anyways, you see how it all spirals downhill. The root of all of this is sin, separation from God (or morals, for all you God-haters), who gives Life.

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Oh....

Bible_Belt said:

You have to have loved and lost before you can realize how temporary and fleeting love typically is.

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Exactly. Its through trauma that people grow. Most blue pillers have not dated enough women to know the true nature of women. Most have never really had their "heart broken" multiple times by multiple women. Bluepillers are usually guys that have just settled with the first decent looking girl they run across. Very few men who have dated/ smashed many women are blue pill.

"The pill contains a program designed to interrupt your input/output carrier signals."

That is, taking the "Red Pill" interrupts the feed from the Matrix for long enough that a person is able to have their own original thoughts. Those thoughts are all personally unique, so the realizations, epiphanies, and revelations to be had are just as unique.

For myself, having been brainwashed like so many others to be a selfless AFC that came from a broken home with no healthy models to emulate, the red pill interrupted the stream of guilt, shame, and obilgation for long enough for me to see that I needed a little narcissism in my life.

And that's what it felt like at first: I was being narcissistic. In fact, I was called that several times, so my evolution was tempered a bit. "Shame on you for broadcasting your wishes that are contrary to mine, narcissist!"

Well, after having been a completely selfless drone, it felt crazy to be "ƒuck you, me first". So, I was left in a place were I had to look up narcissistic personality disorder to find out just how much narcissism is unhealthy.

V: "Oh, that's pretty crazy. I've got lots of room to put myself first."

Once I came to the realization that the level of selflessness was FAR "crazier" than my levels of "narcissism", I was empowered to put myself in the forefront of my life. It sounds silly and simple when I read that, but it's a tough hurdle for many, despite as simple seeming as it may be.

So, the blue pill "wonderland" that folks chose to stay in is simply giving the reigns of your life over to your society, culture, and peers and doing what is expected. The red pill "sociopath" takes the reigns of their life into their own hands.

Call it what you like, sociopathic, narcissistic, whatever... I feel far more healthy than when I was lost in blue pill wonderland. My life is more healthy, my personal interactions are healthier, and my future will surely be of higher-functionality than had I chose to "wake up in my bed and believe... whatever I wanted to believe." (Or, believe whatever my teachers, mother, marketing agendas, church, or politicians wanted me to believe.)

I don't think I'm alone to say that I might have found the red pill under the guise of "women", but it was far more beneficial to the rest of the elements in my life... which in turn, helped with the ladies. I suppose the red-pill is a gift and a curse: now I wouldn't settle for anything less than a red-pill chick. Not settling = gift. Finding a red-pill chick in America? Curse. Definitely.

Fortunately for us, there is an abundance of red-pill chicks overseas which can be imported (raised without the american agenda programming, or at least, with a lesser degree of Disney exposure). Moreover, once taking the red pill, we realize that we could realistically deport ourselves to those greener pastures if we should chose to.

Red Pill: "I can fix this."
Blue Pill: "I should deal with this."

What do you think the success of a political party called "The Red-Pill Party" will have in 2016? I'm pretty sure there is a whole manosphere army waiting to vote for actual progress as opposed to voting for more of the same... with little, if anything, to do with women in the platform. I bet there would be all manner of undoing garbage and proactivity going on.

Vulpine for prez? Meh... I should get involved locally, first. Vulpine for town board! You guys just wait... the news might start reporting on some clown in the boonies starting some crazy "Red-Pill Party" thing. Wouldn't you sh¡t if you saw something like that on TV!!?

Poon King said:

And this (for me) is the main difference between the blue pill and the red pill. The red pill means taking as much "luck" out of the equation as possible. The blue pill is going to Vegas and putting your life savings on Red at the roulette table. The red pill is taking control of your life and not putting that power in the hands of others.

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Right on, dude. Empowerment. "Oh, you mean I don't have to 'put up with' this? I can pick and choose? Wow... uh..."

If you'll forgive another link to my blog:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/29/a-new-hope/

The key to living in a red pill context is to unlearn your blue pill expectations and dreams of finding contentment in them, and replace them with expectations and aspirations based on realistic understandings of red pill truths.

Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness.

Killing your inner Beta is a difficult task and part of that is discarding an old, comfortable, blue pill paradigm. For many newly unplugged, red pill aware, men the temptation is to think they can use this new understanding to achieve the goal-states of their preconditioned blue pill ideals. What they don’t understand is that, not only are these blue pill goal-states flawed, but they are also based on a flawed understanding of how to attain them.

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The abyss men face between a red pill life and a blue pill life is one of throwing away the hopes and goals that a lifetime of blue pill conditioning has convinced you were something you could actualize.

The Red Pill will seem nihilistic until you realize that nihilism comes from the hope that a Blue Pill idealized state is still something realizable.

Vulpine said:

Red Pill: "I can fix this."
Blue Pill: "I should deal with this."

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I go the opposite. Red pill is acceptance of the realities. Blue pill is thinking things can be fixed.

Vulpine said:

For myself, having been brainwashed like so many others to be a selfless AFC that came from a broken home with no healthy models to emulate, the red pill interrupted the stream of guilt, shame, and obilgation for long enough for me to see that I needed a little narcissism in my life.

And that's what it felt like at first: I was being narcissistic. In fact, I was called that several times, so my evolution was tempered a bit. "Shame on you for broadcasting your wishes that are contrary to mine, narcissist!"

Well, after having been a completely selfless drone, it felt crazy to be "ƒuck you, me first". So, I was left in a place were I had to look up narcissistic personality disorder to find out just how much narcissism is unhealthy.

V: "Oh, that's pretty crazy. I've got lots of room to put myself first."

Once I came to the realization that the level of selflessness was FAR "crazier" than my levels of "narcissism", I was empowered to put myself in the forefront of my life. It sounds silly and simple when I read that, but it's a tough hurdle for many, despite as simple seeming as it may be.

Click to expand...

I take this to a deeper level. Blue pill guys can be just as narcissistic, selfish, sociopathic, etc. as red pill guys. Rollo T always talks about how he was alpha by default when he was younger and in a band (and ha, he just makes an appearance - welcome back godfather). Some of the biggest blue pill AFCs out there moonlight as alphas due to their natural situations, not because they are awakened to red pill methodology.

Either way, some of the most terrible hate-filled acts are committed by the blue pill guys against the red pill types. So who's the real narcissist/sociopath? There is a delicate balance and depression/narcissism are signs of weak selfe-esteem, usually rooted in blue pillers. Red pill almost signifies 'maturity' to me. Real knowledge, or at least moving in the correct direction, the most life-giving direction.

Vulpine said:

So, the blue pill "wonderland" that folks chose to stay in is simply giving the reigns of your life over to your society, culture, and peers and doing what is expected. The red pill "sociopath" takes the reigns of their life into their own hands.

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I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulpine
Red Pill: "I can fix this."
Blue Pill: "I should deal with this."
I go the opposite. Red pill is acceptance of the realities. Blue pill is thinking things can be fixed.

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I see your angle. My point should have read: "proactive versus reactive" or "change versus cope and hope". The reality understanding is assumed here.

It's good to see Florida Governor, Rollo Tomassi [RP] chiming in. Good link. Hobbe's inset is well said and strikes a chord.

The quote in my sig is very relevant here in regards to simply stating the difference between red and blue pill divide. Blue pill is learned behavior, Red pill is natural, and more pleasant.

I should go find more of his Pimpin' sh¡t to quote here, it's very relevant. Dude spent over 30 years imprisoned for basically being "red pill" in the 1700's. This Red vs. Blue pill divide has been around a long, long time.

Here we go, from the 1700's:

Marquis de Sade said:

So long as the laws remain such as they are today, employ some discretion: loud opinion forces us to do so; but in privacy and silence let us compensate ourselves for that cruel chastity we are obliged to display in public.

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Very relevant.

Marquis de Sade said:

My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!

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MGTOW!

Marquis de Sade said:

It is not my mode of thought that has caused my misfortunes, but the mode of thought of others.

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Red pill vs. Blue pill thinking?

Marquis de Sade said:

Sensual excess drives out pity in man.

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Spin plates, you say?

Marquis de Sade said:

Are not laws dangerous which inhibit the passions? Compare the centuries of anarchy with those of the strongest legalism in any country you like and you will see that it is only when the laws are silent that the greatest actions appear.

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*click... bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble*

Marquis de Sade said:

I've already told you: the only way to a woman's heart is along the path of torment. I know none other as sure.

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Founder of the "emotional rollercoaster"?

Marquis de Sade said:

Social order at the expense of liberty is hardly a bargain.

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Marquis de Sade said:

The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind.

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Marquis de Sade said:

The more defects a man may have, the older he is, the less lovable, the more resounding his success.

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That last one is gold.

I like to believe that the Marquis invented slappin' ass when goin' doggy. He gets a bad rep for "sadism", but we all know that women love to get their hair pulled, ass slapped, and sometimes even getting choked a bit. ...hardly a villain, but feminists do their thing. *shrug* Certainly a red-pill founding father.