since the manosphere always talks about the "good old days".

Since the manosphere always talks about the "good old days" where the women stay home, does that mean they prefer to be beta bucking provider males?

Don't know if anybody wants to be that today due to inflation. The massive increase in the money supply has the prices of everything SO HIGH that you just can't afford to have one breadwinner anymore.

Plus, on the other side, 21st century technology has automated every damn thing to where there's no reason for a woman to be in the house all day tending to "house duties".

In terms of Daycare, that might be about $10,000 a year and one can make the argument to leave the chick at home to save on Daycare costs. But that same chick working would make about $30,000 - $50,000 a year give or take, which is a much better deal with total income coming into the household than saving on the Daycare costs.

What we talk about (or at least what I talk about) is women being more traditional and more loyal. Women today seem to approach dating and relationships with men as a game of MANIPULATION, where she's always scheming and trying to some how screw the guy over in some capacity.

Dear Deneezfeel,
Well I lived through what some of you think were the good old days...sure aspects were good,but given my 'druthers,I would opt for the modern Day...Avoid Marriage and become confident with Game and you can live in a sensualists Paradise!

I think that only weak men want their women to stay home. If you're smart, you'll make sure she has a life of her own so she doesn't make YOU responsible for HER happiness.

Back in the "good old days", women relied upon men for their livelihood. They didn't usually work themselves, so they needed men for their resources. Since so many women have their own income today, they have more options and less incentive to stay with a man.

Also, the government has stepped in to play the role of provider and protector to women, again taking away more of the traditional male gender role. The result of all this (among other things) is that women are less loyal than ever. That's why the manosphere talks about the "good old days".

Danger said:

Being a provider is not proof of beta.

Click to expand...

Equating "providers" with "betas" is one of the PUA lies that irritate me most. Women want the alpha male. In ancient times, the alpha male ruled the tribe, got to eat first, and got the choicest meats and goods. The powerful alpha used his strength and bravery to be a successful hunter. The alpha traits that women admire are those that make him a successful protector and provider. "Provider" is practically synonymous with "alpha", from an evolutionary standpoint.

Yes, many betas weakly provide also, but not like the alpha male could. Who's going to provide the best? The peasant or the king?

Danger said:

Betas become providers, but not all providers are beta.


This is the old "all collies are dogs, but not all dogs are collies" argument. Manosphere haters haven't figured this out yet, hence the OP trolling along.

Click to expand...

All this talk about beta providers. At least they're propagating. I want kids some day, but I don't know how that's going to happen after swallowing the red pill. Can you ever screen enough?

Reminds me of a Hemmingway quote: Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

I hate the stereotypical "Alpha" and "Beta" categories, as I don't believe a guy can be either 100% of the time. For example, maybe you are "Alpha" or a leader in your household and to the chick you are dating...but are you "Alpha" at work? Or is your boss the Alpha? Or are the clients you represent the "Alpha" and you are their "Beta" servicer?

In terms of Provision, what is "Beta" (or let's say WEAK) is to provide without the expectation of a RETURN on investment. So if you are providing for "aint shyt" women, low quality women, GOLD-DIGGING women, selfish and entitled women....without an expectation of getting some sort of HIGH VALUE in return....you are WEAK.

In terms of using the King analogy, the King provides for his kingdom in EXCHANGE for their service. He doesn't just provide for the hell of it. Just like those serving the King, they provide service in EXCHANGE for the King's resources. In this situation, both the King and those serving the King can be considered "Alpha" as you can be a leading servicer just as you can be a leading King.

But as I mentioned, the focus needs to be on WEAK MEN. Weak men provide their service (serve others) or their resources (like the King) without expecting ANYTHING in return. That's weak.

Tenacity said:

I hate the stereotypical "Alpha" and "Beta" categories, as I don't believe a guy can be either 100% of the time. For example, maybe you are "Alpha" or a leader in your household and to the chick you are dating...but are you "Alpha" at work? Or is your boss the Alpha? Or are the clients you represent the "Alpha" and you are their "Beta" servicer?

In terms of Provision, what is "Beta" (or let's say WEAK) is to provide without the expectation of a RETURN on investment. So if you are providing for "aint shyt" women, low quality women, GOLD-DIGGING women, selfish and entitled women....without an expectation of getting some sort of HIGH VALUE in return....you are WEAK.

In terms of using the King analogy, the King provides for his kingdom in EXCHANGE for their service. He doesn't just provide for the hell of it.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, but what are you supposed to do if you want kids? I think we're doing the world a disservice by not propagating. Millions of men refuse to reproduce because it's a raw deal, but we're exactly the ones that SHOULD be having offspring.

Tenacity said:

I hate the stereotypical "Alpha" and "Beta" categories, as I don't believe a guy can be either 100% of the time. For example, maybe you are "Alpha" or a leader in your household and to the chick you are dating...but are you "Alpha" at work? Or is your boss the Alpha? Or are the clients you represent the "Alpha" and you are their "Beta" servicer?

In terms of Provision, what is "Beta" (or let's say WEAK) is to provide without the expectation of a RETURN on investment. So if you are providing for "aint shyt" women, low quality women, GOLD-DIGGING women, selfish and entitled women....without an expectation of getting some sort of HIGH VALUE in return....you are WEAK.

In terms of using the King analogy, the King provides for his kingdom in EXCHANGE for their service. He doesn't just provide for the hell of it. Just like those serving the King, they provide service in EXCHANGE for the King's resources. In this situation, both the King and those serving the King can be considered "Alpha" as you can be a leading servicer just as you can be a leading King.

But as I mentioned, the focus needs to be on WEAK MEN. Weak men provide their service (serve others) or their resources (like the King) without expecting ANYTHING in return. That's weak.

Click to expand...

THIS.

Alpha is a mindset more than anything. Betas are weak men who appease women. Betas follow all the rules put in place by the woman regarding how a "relationship" should work. Betas give more than they get back. Betas try to buy affection, approval and sex from women.

In modern times, any woman who wants to be a housewife is likely a gold digging parasite. In the early days of marriage.. it made sense for men to be in LTRs with a stay-at-home mother only because they would rule over that woman completely. She cared for his kids at home, provided regular sex and he still had the freedom to f*ck other women on the side if he wanted. And this was expected and even encouraged.

Today is the reverse. Women get into LTR's so they can have a weak beta ATM to extract resources from while she f*cks alphas on the side. Then tells the beta the kids are his.

Understand the time in history to live in. Marriage and LTR's are highly beta in modern times.

TyTe`EyEz said:

Fair enough, but what are you supposed to do if you want kids? I think we're doing the world a disservice by not propagating. Millions of men refuse to reproduce because it's a raw deal, but we're exactly the ones that SHOULD be having offspring.

Click to expand...

To second what Poon King said, the market of women TODAY have fallen so far in terms of quality, that it's like if you get into ANY legal relationship with a woman today you are getting a raw deal in some fashion. Raw deal is defined as you INVESTING wayyyyy more than you are obtaining in return. It's a bad investment.

As a result, getting married and/or making kids, are BAD investments today because the probability of you getting A RETURN on that investment, or hell, just BREAKING EVEN, is so low that it's not even forecastable.

I'm doing my Vasectomy this year. I have no kids and never been married, I consider myself SAVED from the pits of hell. .

The irony of this is that people who blast my approach....END UP back in my position anyway lol. I mean after you marry and stay married for 5-10 years, then after you get the financial ruin, the fight to see your children, etc.....you are going to COME RIGHT BACK to where I'm at, which is spinning plates for the rest of your life.

So why not just avoid the bullshyt and remain spinning plates instead of going through the Family Court crap??

Tenacity said:

To second what Poon King said, the market of women TODAY have fallen so far in terms of quality, that it's like if you get into ANY legal relationship with a woman today you are getting a raw deal in some fashion. Raw deal is defined as you INVESTING wayyyyy more than you are obtaining in return. It's a bad investment.

As a result, getting married and/or making kids, are BAD investments today because the probability of you getting A RETURN on that investment, or hell, just BREAKING EVEN, is so low that it's not even forecastable.

I'm doing my Vasectomy this year. I have no kids and never been married, I consider myself SAVED from the pits of hell. .

The irony of this is that people who blast my approach....END UP back in my position anyway lol. I mean after you marry and stay married for 5-10 years, then after you get the financial ruin, the fight to see your children, etc.....you are going to COME RIGHT BACK to where I'm at, which is spinning plates for the rest of your life.

So why not just avoid the bullshyt and remain spinning plates instead of going through the Family Court crap??

Click to expand...

I respect your position - and I've only recently been entertaining the idea of children - but I still find myself wanting to spread my genes. I know it's a “bad investment," but should that mean that my lineage dies?

I'm all for self-gratification, but that sh1t gets boring after a while. I feel like I need something to keep me going - something to keep me striving for more. I've learned that hedonism will never make me content. I'm not sure what will, but there has to be more to it than this.

No matter where you go in history, and no matter what you talk about, there's always dudes complaining that things were easier in the "good old days."

And even when you point this out, they'll say:

"But this time it's different! It really WAS easier back then!"

There's even writings from ancient Greece where people complained about how bad things are "now" compared to how they were in the "good old days"

Only problem is you're looking at history with rose colored glasses.

Just another excuse to keep from nutting up and operating on the world to get what you want.

TyTe`EyEz said:

I respect your position - and I've only recently been entertaining the idea of children - but I still find myself wanting to spread my genes. I know it's a “bad investment," but should that mean that my lineage dies?

I'm all for self-gratification, but that sh1t gets boring after a while. I feel like I need something to keep me going - something to keep me striving for more. I've learned that hedonism will never make me content. I'm not sure what will, but there has to be more to it than this.

Click to expand...

Well, don't fall into the category of people who say that they didn't receive any form of REAL life motivation until they had kids. That's backwards in my opinion, as the kids should not be a motivation to your life...but instead your life ought to be a motivation to the kids.

I believe that our Generation (Gen Y) are going to have to deal with a number of new realities in relation to our Careers, Education, Family Situation, Real Estate Situation, Political, Economic and Retirement Situation than that of our Parents or more specifically...The Baby Boomers. We have been programmed and conditioned by The Baby Boomers to have certain VIEWS of the world and have certain concepts, but the times have changed to where our views and concepts need to be modified.

Careers: We need to accept that we are going to need to be mobile and working for one job, in one company, in one location, and retiring in 25 years with a pension...is dead and gone. Expect over your 25-30 year career to have worked for multiple companies, in multiple positions, in multiple different areas, in multiple different geographical locations, which brings me to my next point...

Real Estate: Makes no sense to invest in Real Estate due to the need to be Mobile.

Retirement: We will pay into Social Security, but probably NEVER receive more than what we paid in. Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme, designed to have new workers pay for retired ones, but just like a Ponzi Scheme once you run out of new people to enter the system....it collapses. And it will collapse with our Generation, especially seeing as though the economic situation will eliminate the middle class, which takes me to my next point...

Political and Economic: The US is going to lose it's superpower status and the divide between the HAVEs and HAVE NOTs are going to be so wide, that there really won't be a middle class anymore. Those that are in the HAVE category will work in the Specialized Skill areas and the Have NOTs will be working everywhere else even with some of them having college degrees but NEVER seem to truly "get ahead". As a result of this shift, expect the country to move more and more to the LEFT, and blame the problems more and more on "the white man" or "white supremacy" rather than the changing economic landscape.

Family Situation: IF you are marrying American women or entering into ANY legal relationship with them (children, cohabitation, etc) you are seriously dooming your future prospects. The Economic and Political situation is HARD ENOUGH to deal with, now you are going to throw on top of that a very unstable, havoc, personal family situation where the "soul mate" in your life is making your life a living hell. And the children that you created (you know, your legacy) aren't trying to become anything worthwhile at ALL, but instead just to drain you of resources. The FAR LEFT culture that would be continuing to grow will promote this notion and the children will be nothing but spoiled, entitled, brats who believe that YOUR MONEY = THEIR MONEY.

These are hard truths to swallow, I know MOST people don't want to accept these things....but it's just like going to the Doctor and they find a Cancer Bump somewhere. You can IGNORE the diagnosis if you want to, that doesn't mean the SITUATION isn't present. The situation will continue to GROW on you until one day....IT'S OVER.

Tenacity said:

Well, don't fall into the category of people who say that they didn't receive any form of REAL life motivation until they had kids. That's backwards in my opinion, as the kids should not be a motivation to your life...but instead your life ought to be a motivation to the kids.

I believe that our Generation (Gen Y) are going to have to deal with a number of new realities in relation to our Careers, Education, Family Situation, Real Estate Situation, Political, Economic and Retirement Situation than that of our Parents or more specifically...The Baby Boomers. We have been programmed and conditioned by The Baby Boomers to have certain VIEWS of the world and have certain concepts, but the times have changed to where our views and concepts need to be modified.

Careers: We need to accept that we are going to need to be mobile and working for one job, in one company, in one location, and retiring in 25 years with a pension...is dead and gone. Expect over your 25-30 year career to have worked for multiple companies, in multiple positions, in multiple different areas, in multiple different geographical locations, which brings me to my next point...

Real Estate: Makes no sense to invest in Real Estate due to the need to be Mobile.

Retirement: We will pay into Social Security, but probably NEVER receive more than what we paid in. Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme, designed to have new workers pay for retired ones, but just like a Ponzi Scheme once you run out of new people to enter the system....it collapses. And it will collapse with our Generation, especially seeing as though the economic situation will eliminate the middle class, which takes me to my next point...

Political and Economic: The US is going to lose it's superpower status and the divide between the HAVEs and HAVE NOTs are going to be so wide, that there really won't be a middle class anymore. Those that are in the HAVE category will work in the Specialized Skill areas and the Have NOTs will be working everywhere else even with some of them having college degrees but NEVER seem to truly "get ahead". As a result of this shift, expect the country to move more and more to the LEFT, and blame the problems more and more on "the white man" or "white supremacy" rather than the changing economic landscape.

Family Situation: IF you are marrying American women or entering into ANY legal relationship with them (children, cohabitation, etc) you are seriously dooming your future prospects. The Economic and Political situation is HARD ENOUGH to deal with, now you are going to throw on top of that a very unstable, havoc, personal family situation where the "soul mate" in your life is making your life a living hell. And the children that you created (you know, your legacy) aren't trying to become anything worthwhile at ALL, but instead just to drain you of resources.

These are hard truths to swallow, I know MOST people don't want to accept these things....but it's just like going to the Doctor and they find a Cancer Bump somewhere. You can IGNORE the diagnosis if you want to, that doesn't mean the SITUATION isn't present.

Click to expand...

You wrote a lot of words, bro, but you're just parroting sh1t that I've been reading for years. What does any of that have to do with spreading my seed? Besides the former stated raw deal. I still want kids.

Edit - I just read my post and realized how offensive it sounds. No offense meant.

TyTe`EyEz said:

You wrote a lot of words, bro, but you're just parroting sh1t that I've been reading for years. What does any of that have to do with spreading my seed? Besides the former stated raw deal. I still want kids.

Edit - I just read my post and realized how offensive it sounds. No offense meant.

Click to expand...

Then make kids then. Just if any of the following occurs, try NOT to blow your fvcking head off in suicide:

- The chick fights to put you on child support that financially bankrupts you

- You go to jail over not being able to afford the high child support due to a job loss

- The chick fights to allow you to only see the kids 4 days out of the month

- The chick turns the kids against you

- The kids become spoiled and entitled brats, never appreciating shyt you do, did or will do.

- The kids never grow up and milk you for every dime/dollar

Go ahead and make kids dude, for ME, I'm getting my vasectomy done this year and opting out of it.

False dichotomy. The underlying assumption of the OP's question is that one can only be a Beta Provider. But is there such a thing as an Alpha Provider? Indeed, if you are rich and successful (as we all aim to be), chances are you would be hauling in a lot more $$$ than your wife/girlfriend/plate.

I guess you could find yourself a rich/successful woman. But let's be honest for a second, how many of them are truly attractive? A few I grant you. But most aren't. There's a reason why the Big Leagues are still dominated by men.

Scaramouche said:

Dear Deneezfeel,
Well I lived through what some of you think were the good old days...sure aspects were good,but given my 'druthers,I would opt for the modern Day...Avoid Marriage and become confident with Game and you can live in a sensualists Paradise!

Click to expand...

Could you elaborate? Given your age Im very interested in your input. Youve lived threw a few different generations of dating easily. Id love to hear about dating in the 60s up until now. And if you remember what you saw of people in relationships in the 50s, that would be helpful too.

Tenacity said:

Then make kids then. Just if any of the following occurs, try NOT to blow your fvcking head off in suicide:

- The chick fights to put you on child support that financially bankrupts you

- You go to jail over not being able to afford the high child support due to a job loss

- The chick fights to allow you to only see the kids 4 days out of the month

- The chick turns the kids against you

- The kids become spoiled and entitled brats, never appreciating shyt you do, did or will do.

- The kids never grow up and milk you for every dime/dollar

Go ahead and make kids dude, for ME, I'm getting my vasectomy done this year and opting out of it.

Click to expand...

All true. I still think it's worth the risk if I can pass my genes on. The world needs more people like you and me.

Tenacity said:

In terms of Provision, what is "Beta" (or let's say WEAK) is to provide without the expectation of a RETURN on investment. So if you are providing for "aint shyt" women, low quality women, GOLD-DIGGING women, selfish and entitled women....without an expectation of getting some sort of HIGH VALUE in return....you are WEAK.

Click to expand...

Well, I certainly agree you shouldn't be providing for low quality women. But it's interesting to see this statement in comparison to what they say about "nice guys" so much:

"If you are being nice because you want to, that's okay. But if you are being nice because you expect something out of it, then that's beta".

My girlfriend is welcome to share my lifestyle with me, but I am certainly no ATM machine. I don't pay her way. She buys her own car, has her own health insurance, etc. I'm not sure how many guys play the provider in the same sense that they did back in the 50s. It's a different world now.

TyTe`EyEz said:

All true. I still think it's worth the risk if I can pass my genes on. The world needs more people like you and me.

Click to expand...

You could always just get as many women pregnant as you can via one night stands with distant strangers. Lie about your name, make up a story to tell her about how you grew up in the hills of Montana and your uncle still owns a ranch there.

Its not moral but I guess if you are going to accept feminism, its the best way. Don't worry another man will fit the bill for ya.

Won't ever get to see them but at least you know before you die you passed your genetics on.

Its far less immoral than feminism.