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Hate my degree, going back to school for IT. Advice?

Jaylan

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So Ive been out of school for 3 years and really havent made it where I want career-wise. I originally thought I needed better hours, then I thought I needed more money....but the reality is that I just hate business and its a shame I didnt originally get a bachelor's in something I really enjoy.

So I thought a lot about my likes, hobbies, and passions. And since Ive always really liked techie things, (researching different devices, tinkering with operating systems, building my own PCs and troubleshooting networks), I think Im going to go back to school and get a bachelors in Computer Information Systems.

I considered Computer Science, but Im not crazy about having a career thats mainly coding or software creation. And Im not a big fan of theory and advanced mathematics. So CIS seemed more up my alley. It seemed more hands on.

Ive been doing research and I know I will have to get an internship, certifications, and experience under my belt as a support grunt before I really make it anywhere. And what really sucks is that Im turning 28 in two weeks and feel like Ive basically wasted the last 7 years going to school for the wrong major, then struggling to find work during a recession, and then working jobs I hated and had no interest in.

Sometimes I wonder if Im too old to get into the IT field considering all the young hot shots out there with years of experience....but I need to do something I care about.
 

Eph

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Ok, two things. 1) Computer Science is not about programming. At most schools you will hardly do much of any programming at all. Most schools will have you do a semester or two that will actually teach you how to program. Computer Science is a massive field, and a general degree. It would allow you to get your foot in the door in multiple fields. The same cannot be said for more specialized degrees like CIS or a programming degree, for example.

Second, unless you plan on working for big companies like Microsoft, Apple, or Google, or the government, most employers couldn't care less what degree you have, or if you have one at all. As long as you can do the job at hand, they don't care. Experience rules above all in this field, a degree will do nothing for you. Kind of ironically though, certifications are held in high regard at most places.

So, you really shouldn't waste 2-4 years on a degree when you could get several certifications in a single year. And internships are for 18 year old college kids. Don't waste time on those either. Here's a forum I lurk on from time to time:http://www.techexams.net/forums
 

Jaylan

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^Weird, because everything I see on my local craigslist or dice.com has a requirement in of a 4 year degree in my area. Plus tech forums Ive been reading have even said to get an internship to get ones foot into the door.

I know experience is very much needed, but how am I able to even get experience without networking on a campus or through an internship? The school I would be going to requires an internship for graduation, hence networking opportunities and experience.

I really have no other way to get experience in programming without first being taught properly and then given the chance to network in order to gain experience in some position.

Ill create a thread there though on the site you provided for some more insight. Thanks
 

Poonani Maker

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Why don't you get into hard labor? There's too much competition in "brain" work, "educated" work. There's just Too much competition. Unless you KNOW PEOPLE, who are like, Your Tribe, then you ain't gettin' in, and you ain't gettin ahead. It's a bleak, dark world out there. I have a degree, don't use it. Haven't used it, since 2001. It's a really dank, dark world out there, and it's getting darker, for those...who don't know people. If you are apart of a Tribe, if you are on the inside, if you are in with the clique, or if you're a good suckup, politician, brown-noser, then you might have a chance. I know women out there to do sh!t like ACUPUNCTURE for fvcking dogs, for Real money. I'm like wha--? but they are IN with the clique or have a rich husband, or BORN with the backstop finances that we could only DREAM of...to be born with. Trust fund babies, generational backstops of huge wealth that they can dip into at ANY time. THESE people can DO ANYTHING they so desire, be a dog manicurer, open up little incense and spice shops. They are in the IN, and you ain't, so, I recommend either Getting to Know those in a church who can get you IN or a club or an organization of some sort, networking, with tribal things in common where they'd wanna look out for their members (who pay dues/tithe), and/or going in to hard labor, oil wells, carpentry, etc etc etc. things that matter, in the physical world. "Brain" jobs are too fiercely competed for world-wide, and they really don't pay much anymore, due to that huge perceived desirability of these positions in the world. These, many foreigners, would gladly take less for these "heady" jobs given their country's poverty. They can live on rice and beans, noodles, and nothing but a one-room apartment with minimal furniture and be perfectly happy cause they don't know no better about riches or the materiel world we live in.

Very hard to export a hard labor/physical job, though, to another country, if that labor job is tied to the land within your country. Sure, you're working with uneducated people, not-so-bright people, but you gotta make a living wage, and not be so beholden to the whims of a corporation or boss in the white colla world. It's tough, and very bleak in my opinion. I feel for all you young guys out there who are staring at sure poverty when you're older cause the jobs available SUCK.

People are being EXploited Everywhere, unless they are IN the club or a tribe, where it's Somebody's daughter or son that needs to be provided for and protected...made an easy path for his/her feet to walk on.
 
U

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Eph said:
Ok, two things. 1) Computer Science is not about programming. At most schools you will hardly do much of any programming at all. Most schools will have you do a semester or two that will actually teach you how to program. Computer Science is a massive field, and a general degree. It would allow you to get your foot in the door in multiple fields. The same cannot be said for more specialized degrees like CIS or a programming degree, for example.

Second, unless you plan on working for big companies like Microsoft, Apple, or Google, or the government, most employers couldn't care less what degree you have, or if you have one at all. As long as you can do the job at hand, they don't care. Experience rules above all in this field, a degree will do nothing for you. Kind of ironically though, certifications are held in high regard at most places.

So, you really shouldn't waste 2-4 years on a degree when you could get several certifications in a single year. And internships are for 18 year old college kids. Don't waste time on those either. Here's a forum I lurk on from time to time:http://www.techexams.net/forums
This. Eph knows his sh1t.

My little brother majored in IT, but was only able to get a job because he knew somebody that got him an in. Luckily for him, the company paid for him to get several certifications that actually made him "employable." He now has the freedom to go anywhere and make very decent money.

My advice, like Eph's, is to look into getting those certs without paying 10s of thousands of dollars on a degree. All you have to do then is network.
 

Jaylan

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^Thats the thing. I live in the burbs, and I cant really network up here. If I was in school in the big city I could network, meet the right people, and also build professional relationships thanks to the mandatory internship.

Ive looked over the two programs I applied to, and they both get me well on my way to getting some certs. The big thing for me is networking and internships to get my foot in the door. With the schools its much easier. Staying on my current job really leaves me with less options due to the long drive every morning and the lack of time to study.

Im still doing my research though on how to do all this. I could get certs while in school, and then stop after one year if I find myself more employable in IT. Or I could continue and finish up with certs and a BT degree in 2 years of hard work.
 

Eph

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Jaylan said:
^Weird, because everything I see on my local craigslist or dice.com has a requirement in of a 4 year degree in my area. Plus tech forums Ive been reading have even said to get an internship to get ones foot into the door.

I know experience is very much needed, but how am I able to even get experience without networking on a campus or through an internship? The school I would be going to requires an internship for graduation, hence networking opportunities and experience.

I really have no other way to get experience in programming without first being taught properly and then given the chance to network in order to gain experience in some position.

Ill create a thread there though on the site you provided for some more insight. Thanks
It is weird. Just about every job posting lists a degree as a requirement. They usually have something along the lines of "or equivalent experience" right next to that "requirement". They seriously don't care if you have a degree or not. Internships are good, if you really can't get any experience any other way. They're also good for networking. I really should have said this, "internships can be good, but are not necessary.

As for getting experience, certs are invaluable for getting your foot in the door. On an entry-level job, you can sort of learn as you go. You do still need to know a bit, but you aren't expected to have a ton of experience and perform outstandingly.

The problem with trying to go the college route for IT, is that it will more than likely be a lot of reading, studying, and researching without any actual hands-on experience. In theory, you'll know what your doing. But, on the job, you won't be able to perform. If your going to go through college, don't do it for the knowledge. What you learn there won't really help. Do it for the networking opportunities.

Study on your own, try to get some hands-on experience, and get some certifications. For the programming, the majority of people learn through self-study. In 5 years of learning on my own through Youtube, and some online tutorials, I've learned about 4 different programming languages, and around 7 or 8 computer languages altogether. It's not as hard as people try to make it seem. A huge myth is that you need to be amazing at math to program. You don't. The majority of programming requires just basic math skills.
 

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IT is a very broad industry.

Do you want to handle and manage a data center? Do you want to be an engineer to design the DC? Do you want to be a technician to implement solutions? Do you want to be a sales to find opportunities and recommend strategies? Each position has a very different role in the aspect of IT. THEN, you have to find your specialty within that role (Security, Storage, Networks, BDR, DB admin, etc.)

My suggestion is go to any college's IT department. Let them know you are pursuing a career in information systems and see if they will let you meet with one of their personnel and shadow them for an hour or so. Many vendors have free e-training so you can get self pace learn. I think the following are crucial to where technology is going:

Big Data
Cyber Security
"Cloud"
Flash Storage

Instead of going to school for a program, if you want to have a successful IT career, certifications are REQUIRED. Don't do those BS degrees from ITT Tech or similar. Watch youtube videos, vendor websites, free webinars, etc. Enroll in a vendor learning program, (Cisco, EMC, VMware, etc.) and get certified.
 

Tictac

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Pairing an existing degree with IT certifications in areas that interest you may be a way to go.

IT is such a broad and fast changing world that a degree specifically in an IT field would obsolete itself rapidly anyway.
 

synergy1

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TyTe`EyEz said:
My little brother majored in IT, but was only able to get a job because he knew somebody that got him an in. All you have to do then is network.
I want to reiterate this statement with my own experience. But I'll start off with the underlying message of my post: do NOT go to school for IT. There, I said it. IT, programming, development, or anything is best done by doing it. Perhaps an A+ or networking cert to get started ( self learn, take the test). But don't blow money and time on an education when you could be doing whatever IT specialization you want.

My background is technical. I picked up an IT job, part time in college, with my network connections. After that, i did the regular job in my field until I worked as a contract at a company back in 2011. I got to know the IT guy, and was able to solve most of my own problems. He wanted to hire me to be one of the IT guys right than and there...no education in IT previous. (I am regretting that choice)

Moral of the story is to listen to my post, and the poster who I quoted. The pun of networking in this case is slightly amusing, and true too!

If you want more information on how to break into this field, see my other post about the career change. None of it involves getting a formal education.
 

Jaylan

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synergy1 said:
I want to reiterate this statement with my own experience. But I'll start off with the underlying message of my post: do NOT go to school for IT. There, I said it. IT, programming, development, or anything is best done by doing it. Perhaps an A+ or networking cert to get started ( self learn, take the test). But don't blow money and time on an education when you could be doing whatever IT specialization you want.

My background is technical. I picked up an IT job, part time in college, with my network connections. After that, i did the regular job in my field until I worked as a contract at a company back in 2011. I got to know the IT guy, and was able to solve most of my own problems. He wanted to hire me to be one of the IT guys right than and there...no education in IT previous. (I am regretting that choice)

Moral of the story is to listen to my post, and the poster who I quoted. The pun of networking in this case is slightly amusing, and true too!

If you want more information on how to break into this field, see my other post about the career change. None of it involves getting a formal education.
Again, you networked in college. Which is why Im really going back. Im going in order to network, get a valuable internship, while also getting some fundamentals and working part time. I will of course get my certs on the side...and if I find a good job prior to graduating I will do so.

But I gotta start somewhere. My current work schedule and location situation doesnt allow the time to study, nor the ability to properly network.
Eph said:
It is weird. Just about every job posting lists a degree as a requirement. They usually have something along the lines of "or equivalent experience" right next to that "requirement". They seriously don't care if you have a degree or not. Internships are good, if you really can't get any experience any other way. They're also good for networking. I really should have said this, "internships can be good, but are not necessary.

As for getting experience, certs are invaluable for getting your foot in the door. On an entry-level job, you can sort of learn as you go. You do still need to know a bit, but you aren't expected to have a ton of experience and perform outstandingly.

The problem with trying to go the college route for IT, is that it will more than likely be a lot of reading, studying, and researching without any actual hands-on experience. In theory, you'll know what your doing. But, on the job, you won't be able to perform. If your going to go through college, don't do it for the knowledge. What you learn there won't really help. Do it for the networking opportunities.

Study on your own, try to get some hands-on experience, and get some certifications. For the programming, the majority of people learn through self-study. In 5 years of learning on my own through Youtube, and some online tutorials, I've learned about 4 different programming languages, and around 7 or 8 computer languages altogether. It's not as hard as people try to make it seem. A huge myth is that you need to be amazing at math to program. You don't. The majority of programming requires just basic math skills.
The school route is mainly for networking, getting basic fundamentals, and the internship opportunity. If I try to do this on my own, while staying on the same job, Ill like be in the same spot 2 years from now because of the lack of time (nevermind this jobs terrible vacation policy). So I really have little time to study or even look for or gain experience in IT.

School in the big city frees up time to study class material...study cert material during my long transit commute, and opens up opportunities to people that can get my foot in the door. Plus I would try to land any part time IT gig I could while in school. I am also still eligible for work study it looks like....which would be helpful if I could get it somewhere relevant to the path I want to go.

Im still figuring this all out. I just dont wanna waste more years on not getting to where I really wanna be career wise. Its not even just money either. I could take doing grunt work for little pay while I work my way up, so long as I have a passion for what Im doing. And Ive always had a passion for computers and technology in general
The411 said:
IT is a very broad industry.

Do you want to handle and manage a data center? Do you want to be an engineer to design the DC? Do you want to be a technician to implement solutions? Do you want to be a sales to find opportunities and recommend strategies? Each position has a very different role in the aspect of IT. THEN, you have to find your specialty within that role (Security, Storage, Networks, BDR, DB admin, etc.)

My suggestion is go to any college's IT department. Let them know you are pursuing a career in information systems and see if they will let you meet with one of their personnel and shadow them for an hour or so. Many vendors have free e-training so you can get self pace learn. I think the following are crucial to where technology is going:

Big Data
Cyber Security
"Cloud"
Flash Storage

Instead of going to school for a program, if you want to have a successful IT career, certifications are REQUIRED. Don't do those BS degrees from ITT Tech or similar. Watch youtube videos, vendor websites, free webinars, etc. Enroll in a vendor learning program, (Cisco, EMC, VMware, etc.) and get certified.
Im not going to a diploma mill.

My schools of choice are the NYC College of Technology (City Tech) or the Zicklin School of Business at Baruch College. Both have good Computer Systems program that also have an included internship with very good companies. City Tech is my first choice given their more structured on computers while Baruch is more focused on business.
 

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Jaylan said:
Im not going to a diploma mill.

My schools of choice are the NYC College of Technology (City Tech) or the Zicklin School of Business at Baruch College. Both have good Computer Systems program that also have an included internship with very good companies. City Tech is my first choice given their more structured on computers while Baruch is more focused on business.
Your education from a 'program' does not mean sh!t in the IT industry. All that matters is your certifications and experience. Even IT help desk experience is more valuable that doing the programs you mentioned.

I have dealt with lower level IT personnel (network admins, IT managers, DB admins) they pull in about 60-80k a year. Once they get specialized and get certifications, VCP for example, they were pushed beyond 100k.

You can bullsh!t around and get a 2 year degree which everyopne has right now, fighting for a crappy entry level IT job that you hate. In IT you get blamed for everything, btw so make sure you can deal with that. You'll be making about 40k tops your first year and praying to Jesus that someone will hire you upon a plethora of 'IT diploma' applicants.

Trust me, if you are serious about going into the IT industry, STAND OUT. If not, prepare to work 4+ years in a sh!tty position, and I mean SH!TTY, just so you can get that experience. You're 27, that would make you 31 and merely starting that IT career. Get certified, be specialized. You're more than a third way to when you die. You want to build your career in a difficult (exciting) industry, sh!t, go big or go home.
 

Jaylan

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^Again, Im going to get certifications WHILE IN SCHOOL. I plan to get a couple of entry level certs over the next few months before the semester begins.

Going the school route is so I can network in the big city and get the mandatory internship to get my foot in the door. And because I already have a boatload of transfer credit, Id be in school for 2 years at most, so Id graduate at 30 (im 28 now). And I plan to specialize in system administration in school and with my certs.

Its not a one or the other thing, so I dunno why youre taking it that way. Again I repeat, Im going to get entry level certs, then continue to grab more certs while in school. Hopefully I land an entry level gig part time while in school and work up my skills...or I can build myself up with the internship.

I never said I was going to forgo certs by simply going to school. My plan is to have education, certs, and experience...and I wanna knock out things now while Im young and driven.
 

Jaylan

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So would you advise against system administration? Im more drawn to that than the other tracks Ive looked into. And plus, isnt there a fair bit of overlap with DBA and System administration?

I just wanna do what Im passionate about and really push through and succeed in this. I wont wanna do a track simply because Im banking on a good job and pay grade. I want to have a great interest in my path.

And trust me...I have a thick skin. I can deal with getting chewed out, and meeting deadlines if Im doing something Im really interested in.

What do you personally think of this idea? Getting certs...then going to school...getting more certs while in school...trying to work an entry level position while in school...and then seeing what the internship leads too. Sound good?

I mean, if I cant find an entry level job on my own, my internship will at least give me some experience and a chance to meet people that can open doors for me. I have a couple of friends in IT who already reached out to me with advice. Hopefully with some certs and experience they can help me in the future. This all said, I have a couple of friends who landed jobs with ESPN and Intel all thanks to a semester long internship (hence why I see the value in it, while also getting certs on the side and looking for other opportunities)

I really do feel like Id have more doors open to me doing that, rather than only getting certifications and trying to professionally network and look for entry level positions while having less time in the big city.
 

speed dawg

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Jaylan said:
So Ive been out of school for 3 years and really havent made it where I want career-wise. I originally thought I needed better hours, then I thought I needed more money....but the reality is that I just hate business and its a shame I didnt originally get a bachelor's in something I really enjoy.

So I thought a lot about my likes, hobbies, and passions. And since Ive always really liked techie things, (researching different devices, tinkering with operating systems, building my own PCs and troubleshooting networks), I think Im going to go back to school and get a bachelors in Computer Information Systems.

I considered Computer Science, but Im not crazy about having a career thats mainly coding or software creation. And Im not a big fan of theory and advanced mathematics. So CIS seemed more up my alley. It seemed more hands on.
What do you know, here is a field where Gaylan and I have something in common. You are doing the correct thing by attempting to find out what you like/want and all that stuff. I am in the process of that myself. However the problem is this - these are 1st-world type problems. Remember that above all, you have to make a living. That brings me to this:

Jaylan said:
Ive been doing research and I know I will have to get an internship, certifications, and experience under my belt as a support grunt before I really make it anywhere. And what really sucks is that Im turning 28 in two weeks and feel like Ive basically wasted the last 7 years going to school for the wrong major, then struggling to find work during a recession, and then working jobs I hated and had no interest in.

Sometimes I wonder if Im too old to get into the IT field considering all the young hot shots out there with years of experience....but I need to do something I care about.
All valid points, with the bolded being something I want to hit on in particular. I don't see the economy recovering, and you (we) aren't getting any younger. So in that vein, I've decided to stick with what I'm currently doing, but trying to specialize in a field that I 'want' to do, you know, the whatever makes you happy angle. This way, you still keep the bills paid, and you're still growing.

I cannot go back to school at this point, I've invested too much in my life. It is what it is. You have to make that choice. But what I can do is specialize, or try to create a side business. That's what I would recommend. Abandoning your day job right now isn't smart. I'd change companies or something similar before I dropped it all to go back to school.

Experience, not degrees.
 

Poonani Maker

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The plan is making Bank in good hard labor, paying off All debts (house), then "rent" (equals property taxes plus utilities plus insurance) after ALL debts paid in full comes to about $400 - $500 Monthly. You can't escape property taxes :( you can't escape utilities/trash pickup/insurance. You're ALWAYS gonna be getting a DRAIN on your inflow, your ENTIRE life on this planet, In America. People are so stupid to buy the biggest house they can, that their credit will allow, as Nothing lasts forever. You could get sick, a myriad of things could happen to you, then you fvcked.

You'll NEVER be unhooked from "The Man" who will forever be Draining your nest egg. The task before you is to minimize that drain as much as possible. BLOWS MY MIND how some girls will have a $200 monthly phone bill, and Buy a fvckin new phone every chance a new one comes out. I've had my iphone 4 for 5 years. Sure it's sh!t battery life and laggy and dirty, but still works. Same goes for my truck.
 

speed dawg

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Poonani Maker said:
You're ALWAYS gonna be getting a DRAIN on your inflow, your ENTIRE life on this planet, In America. People are so stupid to buy the biggest house they can, that their credit will allow, as Nothing lasts forever. You could get sick, a myriad of things could happen to you, then you fvcked.............You'll NEVER be unhooked from "The Man" who will forever be Draining your nest egg. The task before you is to minimize that drain as much as possible.
If you just want to work and save, then yeah, you'll never really get ahead. The key is to put your money in things that go up in value. The hive-mind tells you to enjoy life now because you deserve it, so go buy a bunch of sh*t that goes down in value the second you use it.

Real estate, mutual funds, etc. is where it's at and assures you stay ahead of the game. Oh, people say precious metals guard against economic collapse? Bullsh*t, in that case it'll be the man who has land, potable water and guns who will rule the roost.

Poonani Maker said:
BLOWS MY MIND how some girls will have a $200 monthly phone bill, and Buy a fvckin new phone every chance a new one comes out. I've had my iphone 4 for 5 years. Sure it's sh!t battery life and laggy and dirty, but still works. Same goes for my truck.
No doubt. Women run the consumer system in place today. THAT is the real reason you see pink towels and helmets.
 

The411

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Jaylan said:
^Again, Im going to get certifications WHILE IN SCHOOL.
You are not. PERIOD.

On the topic of IT, what do you guys make of the acquisition of Whiptail by Cisco? IMO, Cisco is severing ties with EMC and NetApp regarding VCE and FlexPod respectively. Cisco used to be all about networking, but when you have have Brocade and others taking that market, they seemed pressured to start their own converged storage. UCS is a BIG hit and I think the acquisition of Whiptail means they will launch their own 'vSAN' Thoughts?
 

Jaylan

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The411 said:
You are not. PERIOD.

On the topic of IT, what do you guys make of the acquisition of Whiptail by Cisco? IMO, Cisco is severing ties with EMC and NetApp regarding VCE and FlexPod respectively. Cisco used to be all about networking, but when you have have Brocade and others taking that market, they seemed pressured to start their own converged storage. UCS is a BIG hit and I think the acquisition of Whiptail means they will launch their own 'vSAN' Thoughts?
lmfao.

How are you going to tell me what Im not going to do? Plenty of people have gotten certs while working or while in school.

Calm yourself buddy.
 

The411

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Jaylan said:
lmfao.

How are you going to tell me what Im not going to do? Plenty of people have gotten certs while working or while in school.

Calm yourself buddy.
My apologies if I came out offensive. I have been in the IT industry for quite a while. The people that you will be 'networking' with are sales guys and IT personnel. It is very unlikely you will get anything to further your career from them. What I am trying to say is:

1) IT personnel are getting fistful of dollars from vendor reps to 'build a relationship'
2) Unless you work for Government, it's all about relationships.

Why I told you that you will not be getting certified during school is that $$$$$. My assumption, correct me if I am wrong, is that you don't have $5k+ to spend on certifications. If you do, you would not be looking for another field. My guess is that you will maximize on the deferred student program.

What I am trying to say is that a degree in Information Systems/Technology is worthless. You need experience. The only way you can get experience is to have certifications to lan you in a mediocre job. That is IT for you in a nutshell as the entry level personnel. Do not expect to become a CIO or pulling in 50k+ a year with your starting IT position. It takes A LOT of time. You can either get your degree and compete among thousands of qualified applicants for an entry level IT position, or you can compete against hundreds that hold certifications. Choice is yours.
 
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