Not 5 years ago...this stuff used to be fun...

Women are attracted to behavior, because behavior is an indication of what the man will provide: Security.

Men are attracted to looks, the younger the better (so long as they are north of puberty). The Yamomano tribe in Brazil have a word for the ideal women:
"Moke Dude" which means between puberty and first child.

When a man's behavior changes, her interest does as well. When a woman's body changes, a man's interest does as well.

The problem is that women are far more dependent on a man's behavior than men are on her looks.

Here is the matrix:

A man is conditioned from birth to expect "free" unconditional love from his mom.
When he hooks up with his wife, that is what unconsciously expects. That the unconditional love is not based on his behavior, but who he is.

Up until recently, this view worked, as women were fairly dependent on men (and men on women) as their was a fair division of labor.

But recently this paradigm has started to crumble. Women "need" men less and less, as they are able to get their security on their own.

The "matrix" is when a man thinks that all he has to do is get married, or even get into a relationship, and he gets access to undivided affection, like he got with mommy.

"unplugging" from the "matrix" is simply a realization that women respond to behavior, and are not a source of unconditional love and affection.

Two camps emerge:

Not a problem, if you know what the right behavior is.

Big problem if you whine and rage against the world and some imagined feminine collective, and wish that it wasn't the way it is, and think a woman should love you and sex you and give you affection because she "should" or that's the way it's "supposed" to be.

This board seems to spend a lot of time discussing the second camp (big problem part), e.g. what the true nature of reality is and how fukked it must be to be an AFC who is still "plugged in," how horrible it is that women are so evil and calculating and conspiratorial, and not the first camp, regarding the right behavior, given these revelations.

What is the right behavior?

Well, I thought you'd never ask. Here they are: ( in order)

1) Be as successful as you can, make as much money as you can.

2) Learn to sarge, improve your social skills, communication skills, qualification skills

3) Never ever commit to a woman unless she has proven to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that she is worth your commitment.

Of course, you can practice number (2) while your on your way to number (1), but just keep in mind they are all "practice," until you get to where you want to be life.

It is possible to find a woman that will help you get there, but keep in mind she's buying a penny stock she hopes will be high on the big board some day.

So you say it's not fair? Well, history is filled with societies where a small few men got all the women.

Deal with it.

Once you "unplug" from the "matrix" you can do two things:

1) Whaaaa! This isn't they told us! O My God! I can't believe this! All the feminine brainwashing! Ahhhhh!

or

2) Huh. Different rules. Lets play.

Up to you.

I think guys just need to be more comfortable with the truth about life, period.

This world is unforgiving, if you allow yourself to be swayed by pretty words and pictures than you become vulnerable to the "agenda" of others.

This doesn't mean you should adopt a cynical point of view. I enjoy and appreciate a woman who shows me love and respect, but I also know that this behavior isn't "static". She isn't going to have the desire to behave this way unless I'm considered "valuable" and generally worth the effort. This means she needs to feel like I could and/or would leave at any moment if things were not up to my standards. However, you can't "verbalize" these things, you can't negotiate or make ultimatums on desire. She has to be inspired by you when you show her how great of a catch you are by maintaining your appearance and your passions in life.

I also know when to let go of women who feel they've "settled" for me because I was a simple "convenience" at the time. My thing is I'm good as long as I'm getting what I want out of the relationship. If her attitude goes south and I feel like she's pushing me away I don't try to latch on to her, I make a plan to exit. This decision has to be genuine though, if you pretend like you're leaving than you've defeated the purpose.

backbreaker said:

A very good microcosm for this place, is the horse track. yes i know but hear me out.

about 95% of the people who go to the track lose money.i would imagine about the 5% of the guys here, are truly successful with women.

of that 95% of guys who lose money, it's funny when you look at them, oh, nothing is wroth with their handicapping ability. they don't see anything wrong with taking a 6/5 shot and the only possible way he can lose is if the jockey stiffed him lol. yes, it's because all the horses are drugged up that is the reason you are losing (and the funny thing in reality they don't' even really care, they care because they can't predict who is and who is not drugged), who do nothing but cry cry cry. that's all they do. cry and cry about this or that.

most would rather blame the horse track or trainers or jockeys than look at their own and and improve their own ability to pick winning horses. most "handicappers" are god awful. i can run cirlces around the vast majority of most and most are more than twice my age. i say that with full confidecce, i know i'm very good, one of the best at what i do, lol, becuase i am constantly taking money from these people.

when you lose a race, look at the race and say okay what did I do wrong, what can I do better. how can I improve myself. it's the same with women. yes there are screwy women, bat**** crazy women out there, all that, just like yes sometimes jockies do stiff hosres, sometimes they give piss poor rides, etc but i can't control that. sometimes (less times than you think) you can't control the outcome of something but usually you can find some fault in your errors.
I have referenced the laws of success here many a times and some of you take it as a joke.



that is word for word from the code of ethics in the last chapter in the laws of success (i read the code of ethics every morning when i wake up and i have it memorized)

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Very good posts your making in this thread. This example can be used for poker too.

Once you've learned the truth, it's easy to scoff at the type of women you used to worship and place upon a pedestal.

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Coming to this site hasn't changed my opinion of women at all. I had a pretty realistic view of them before I came here.

What I do find disappointing however, is the quality of men. Most of the guys on here are all right, a lot of good guys. But too many have no sense of morality or honor, and most of all they place waaaaaay too much value and importance on sex. It's like they place sex on the pedestal, and as long as they can get that, anything and everything else is justified.

It's hard for me to imagine men leading us out of these increasingly dark times if they have no moral center or convictions.

wow there are some great posts in this threat. taiyuu's post needs to be sticked somewhere. zekko dead on.

zekko said:

Coming to this site hasn't changed my opinion of women at all. I had a pretty realistic view of them before I came here.

What I do find disappointing however, is the quality of men. Most of the guys on here are all right, a lot of good guys. But too many have no sense of morality or honor, and most of all they place waaaaaay too much value and importance on sex. It's like they place sex on the pedestal, and as long as they can get that, anything and everything else is justified.

It's hard for me to imagine men leading us out of these increasingly dark times if they have no moral center or convictions.

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Man I just reped you for that post! You are so right. No sense of morality, honor or responsibility. Not to say all guys, but seems to be more than there used to be. Alot think of the tang first, and put everything second. Men should put themselves first. I bet alot in their lives would actually fall into place naturally if more of us did that. Has to be one of the best posts I have ever seen on the forum. Good words.

backbreaker said:

taiyuu's post needs to be sticked somewhere.

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I agree, he words it very well. It should be a must read.

i never thought of it like that but he's absolutly correct. your momma's love and your gir's love are not one in the same and that's where men **** up. your momma will love you if you are a bum addict. momma has unconditional love. my son could be a big loser when he grows up and i would still love the **** out of him.

your girls love is not like that. regardless of all the sappy tv, movies and hallmark cards you see.

Idk. This post just seems to shed light around the very deep and assumingly shallow view of women around this section of the forum.

Rollo's response has so many holes in it, it makes no sense.

Rollo

The same motivators, the same impulses, the same prompts that make both of their vaginas tingle when they are confronted with a confident Alpha male displaying higher value work on both women. The only difference is the context under which those principles are applied.

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There are so many vague assumptions in this response it makes no sense.

> Rollo does the same concept of "Alpha Male" apply across the board across all cultures, influences, and backgrounds? In other words, if I'm a "alpha" of this group based upon certain "principles", will I automatically be an "alpha" of any group I join? Am I "alpha" all the time? Everywhere? With everybody? What happens when I'm not "alpha," does the girl dump me?

> Rollo, do women not have their own internal influences, values, and personalities with which assist to make up who and WHAT they are attracted to? How then can women that have nothing in common, BOTH, be attracted to the same thing?

Here's a cold hard truth; Everyone has Game.

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Oh really, so not only do you know everything about all WOMEN in America, but you know everything about all MEN in America as well?

A lot of guys get uncomfortable with the idea of Game as it's defined in the community - PUA Game, Direct Game, Natural Game, etc. etc., but really every guy has A Game. Every guy has some idea, some inner, internalized concept of how best to approach, relate to and eventually arrive at sexual intercourse with a female they find attractive.

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Prove this. While I would agree that most men "should," I keyword should because unlike all knowing Rollo, I don't "know" everything and everybody lol, but I would agree that most men "should" have some idea on how to best approach a woman in order to win her favor. Obviously, those ideas will vary. But to call that "game" is something totally different. What makes you think every guy has some sort of "game" or is willing to develop "game" in the first place?

I wouldn't call just going up to someone and meeting them as game, would you? Maybe we can all define game around here as some sort of tactiful "strategy" following certain "techniques" all aimed at getting the girl to lay.

So really Rollo, every guy has some sort of "strategy"?

Unanalyzed, unlearned and/or unconsidered this Game is subject to the varying forces of a man's socialization and acculturation. Beta Game is almost universally the result of this. Due to men's generally more linear, deductive natures, we tend to develop our Game based on the data available to us - what women TELL us they want.

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Rollo, from my experiences, women do not know what they want until it shows up in front of them. Now, I'm not like you and saying I KNOW what all women want, obviously you've been in contact with the 200 million women in America and have discovered that answer.

But what I'm saying from my experiences (which is all any of you have to go on, NONE of you know all women), women do not really know what the hell they want until it shows up in front of them and it's at that time they decide if they like it or not.

So how can a guy tailor himself to what women want, if the women in his area are not telling him what they want nor do they know what they want?

And you use terms like "Alpha" and "Beta" as IF there's ultimates. So a guy is either a Alpha or a Beta? There's no mixture of the two qualities? In other words, there's not times when I'm beta and times when I'm alpha? I assume that when you mention these "terms" you are speaking more in words of Alpha = strong, leader, confident, assertive...while Beta means = weaker, submissive, passive type.

So the equation goes something like this: I need sex + women have the sex I want + women do not unconditionally give me sex + I must discover what women require in order to give me sex + I will poll them on what they require + I will adjust my behaviors to best fit these requirements = I will get sex. This is the basic formula that leads to an AFC, supplicative, beta game mindset.

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Wow you sure have everybody figured out. Geez.

Rollo I'm just a guy that's likes to look at things in a common sense type of way lol. I've read your posts before and they are worded great and contain great "entertainment" based information. However, the bulk of your posts revolve around "having the answer" to women and life. I really don't understand how YOU would have this "answer" Rollo, especially when just from reading alot of your theories I can fly you out to my area and other cities and show how just about everything you are saying is incorrect.

It sounds good online, but it's just incorrect. There's no "set" answer or priniciples on life nor women. None. Because nobody is the same.

And to even consider that an educated woman, making a higher class income, that runs her own business, would be attracted to the same "behaviors" that an uneducated, poor, and financially stupid woman would be attracted to, just shows that common sense is no longer a virtue around here when you are so DEEP into theories.

Warrior

LOL@ Message Boy again caught up in the details, not seeing the forest for trees. You could have summed all that up in once sentence. All Game Is Local. Which is true. All of this stuff won't work the same on every girl in every situation. But I think you understand the point Rollo is making and either are being intentionally obtuse or taking a personal issue and muddying the water with it.

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No. Rollo is saying what he said, which is this stuff DOES work on every girl and in damn near every situation. Did you read his response? Have you been reading ANY of his threads?

So the equation goes something like this: I need sex + women have the sex I want + women do not unconditionally give me sex + I must discover what women require in order to give me sex + I will poll them on what they require + I will adjust my behaviors to best fit these requirements = I will get sex. This is the basic formula that leads to an AFC, supplicative, beta game mindset.

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Honestly, this is pretty much the same formula that leads to this forum, minus the bit about polling women. Guys come here to "adjust thier behaviors to best fit what women require". The process isn't that far off.

zekko said:

Honestly, this is pretty much the same formula that leads to this forum, minus the bit about polling women. Guys come here to "adjust thier behaviors to best fit what women require". The process isn't that far off.

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That's what I've been thinking as well. The longer I rea this forum, the more think it's boat you shouln't be boarding, because it's sailing the wrong course.It seems it all quality advice boils own to uniting dream and day and be the best man you can. Think about it.



''I'm jealous about my girfriend'' --> you're insecure, work on yourself, unite dream and day
.
''She doesn't call me back'' --> you're insecure, work on yourself, unite dream and day.

''My girlfriend is angry at me'' --> you're insecure, work on yourself, unite dream and day

''Women are stupid'' --> you're insecure, work on yourself, unite dream an day



With that message, the forum might as well be closed. No need to read all this women-hating stuff, or the world is so messed up stuff, or 10 tips for your first date stuff. If you are working on yourself, then there is nothing to learn.

Squirrels--this post is exactly some of my feelings. It is sad. What has happened to our world? It seems the way we've cheapened everything else has stemmed deeply into our interpersonal interactions.

J. Darko

If you are working on yourself, then there is nothing to learn.

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I kind of feel the same way, in other words, life and my relations with women are based more upon my choices, personal development, personal value, etc., rather than the "Matrix," "Feminism," or any other type of cliche' Men's Movement concept of how women have more favor in the playing field and how we as men are mostly doomed.

"Just Be Yourself" and "There's Someone Out There For Everybody," were messages mostly everyone told me before I found this forum. The first thing I was told when I got here was that these statements were not true and in a sense, women were somewhat the enemy and would not be truly honest about relationship dynamics. "Women only date Alpha Males," "Nice guys finish last," etc., were all of concepts I was informed of.

However, looking back over the statements it appears to me that the two original statements were the best pieces of knowledge one could have received and that the world of "seduction" is mainly cartoonish pieces of knowledge based more on a man's insecurities rather than woman's internal and external processes.


I compare this to an entrepreneurial concept of a "product" or "service." In this case, Just Be Yourself would be compared to learning all there is about your product, how it fits uniquely in the market, and the BEST places within the market to sell your product for better results.

So if I as a newbie would attempt to learn more about the person staring back at me in the mirror, discover my strengths, weaknesses, unique characteristics, etc. I should start to develop a good internal vision of WHO I AM along with the TYPES of women that I would attract and the best strategy to use for tailoring myself to attract those "types" of women.

Using this concept, there's no "set" theory that some guy on the internet can provide that would apply across the board, because the "product" (me) is not the same as other products and the product's market (women) do not all relate to the product as other markets do (women in other places).

Common sense just says that no man is the same and no woman is the same. We can discuss the fact that men like tits and women like d.ick, which is true. But tits and d.ick are compared to academic subjects such as "Business" or "Journalism," that a person might like to study, however, the individual COLLEGE you choose to attend to CONDUCT your study, depends on individual influences.

So you start to have an individual, local, path to success with women and life. My issue with the Mature Man Forum, Rollo, and others that spit out the women-bashing, misogynist-like concepts, and "SET" theorized based principles of how EVERYONE will act, is that not only are they WRONG (because they don't apply to all men and all women), but they are so SET in their theories that alternative forms of discussion on the topic is automatically casted off as "this guy is still in the Matrix," or "this guy is a man-gina," or "this guy needs to go back to Loveshack." You compare this to an old-timer that has no experience with new forms of life (like the internet) and just casts off those new forms and forms of life he has not experienced, as bullsh.it.

The Message Boy said:

"Just Be Yourself" and "There's Someone Out There For Everybody,"

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Once upon a time, there were only a few hundred thousand humans on this planet. Now we are nearing 7 billion.

It would appear, based on the numbers, that humans have pretty good instincts for making more humans.

So what's the problem?

A guy walks into a bar, wants to walk up to her, but he is afraid. Why? He has learned through experience (mostly from his mother at a young age) that asking for what he wants, and getting rejected is pretty painful. In fact, at such a young age (up to about 5) getting rejected by one's mother feels like a literal threat to survival. This of course, gets reinforced socially at school.

Rejection is painful, so anything that may involve rejection terrifying.

So he learns (we learn) that approaching a female is dangerous, on a powerful and deep unconscious level.

So we learn methods that we think will decrease our chances of getting rejected. Neg hits, ****y/funny, approach at an angle, use a time limiting opener, etc.

You may even say that all learned "game" is a buffer against rejection.

So is "be yourself" the ultimate game?

What does "be yourself" mean?

How about saying what you want to say without fear of rejection, expressing appreciation that that which you appreciate without concern or desire for recognition, voicing your desires without shame or guilt?

"be yourself" does not mean "be a nice guy." Being a nice guy is a combination of doing what you think will get you rewarded and doing what isn't very scary. A disgusting prospect to most women.

What if what really turns most women on is someone who can express themselves openly and honestly without fear and without any worry what other people will think? In short, someone who truly can "be themselves."

What if women get their panties wet over somebody who's actions and words proclaim "This is who I am, I don't care if you like me or not"?

What if at the heart of all men is a desire to be truly outgoing and social, and all otherwise behavior is really a buffer against rejection, learned long ago, when the world was scary and unfamiliar?

What if it really is that simple? To be yourself? Your true self? Your natural self?

What will you do then?

The Message Boy said:

I kind of feel the same way, in other words, life and my relations with women are based more upon my choices, personal development, personal value, etc., rather than the "Matrix," "Feminism," or any other type of cliche' Men's Movement concept of how women have more favor in the playing field and how we as men are mostly doomed.

Yes, Sosuave teaches new visitors to look for external causes and not for internal causes. Sure, the bible teaches ''inner game'', but with the underlying thought that it's a secret you couldn't possibly know because we were plugged in the Matrix and that's just nonsense.

"Just Be Yourself" and "There's Someone Out There For Everybody," were messages mostly everyone told me before I found this forum. The first thing I was told when I got here was that these statements were not true and in a sense, women were somewhat the enemy and would not be truly honest about relationship dynamics. "Women only date Alpha Males," "Nice guys finish last," etc., were all of concepts I was informed of.

That's another good point of view. Personally I realized that these statements are not truly advice. It's just empathy that people show you. Again, it's not some dark plot of feminist and AFC's or something, no it's your own lack of social skills why you fail to see that they are just trying to cheer you up. No need to be bitter about it.


However, looking back over the statements it appears to me that the two original statements were the best pieces of knowledge one could have received and that the world of "seduction" is mainly cartoonish pieces of knowledge based more on a man's insecurities rather than woman's internal and external processes.


I compare this to an entrepreneurial concept of a "product" or "service." In this case, Just Be Yourself would be compared to learning all there is about your product, how it fits uniquely in the market, and the BEST places within the market to sell your product for better results.

Best of all, it's all free to learn. Unlike DVD's and books self-proclaimed PUA's sell to insecure guys, fooling them to believe you first need to learn top secret knowledge.

So if I as a newbie would attempt to learn more about the person staring back at me in the mirror, discover my strengths, weaknesses, unique characteristics, etc. I should start to develop a good internal vision of WHO I AM along with the TYPES of women that I would attract and the best strategy to use for tailoring myself to attract those "types" of women.

Using this concept, there's no "set" theory that some guy on the internet can provide that would apply across the board, because the "product" (me) is not the same as other products and the product's market (women) do not all relate to the product as other markets do (women in other places).

Common sense just says that no man is the same and no woman is the same. We can discuss the fact that men like tits and women like d.ick, which is true. But tits and d.ick are compared to academic subjects such as "Business" or "Journalism," that a person might like to study, however, the individual COLLEGE you choose to attend to CONDUCT your study, depends on individual influences.

So you start to have an individual, local, path to success with women and life. My issue with the Mature Man Forum, Rollo, and others that spit out the women-bashing, misogynist-like concepts, and "SET" theorized based principles of how EVERYONE will act, is that not only are they WRONG (because they don't apply to all men and all women), but they are so SET in their theories that alternative forms of discussion on the topic is automatically casted off as "this guy is still in the Matrix," or "this guy is a man-gina," or "this guy needs to go back to Loveshack." You compare this to an old-timer that has no experience with new forms of life (like the internet) and just casts off those new forms and forms of life he has not experienced, as bullsh.it.

Indeed, Sosuave isn't open to discussion anymore, actually, like any other forum, it's one big subculture. Just like Emo's, Chavs and skaters, there's a subculture called ''PUA's'' or ''Don Juans'' with their own ideology. You either fit in that subculture and take over her ideology, or the subculture will spit you out. Ahhh...reminds me of High School.

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This board is finished. Best thing to do is to take home the message of being the best and most masculine man you can be and then turn off the computer.

J. Darko said:

If you are working on yourself, then there is nothing to learn.

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But were you working on yourself BEFORE you came here?
The undeniable truth for the majority of us was that we DIDN'T know how to work on ourselves. We just thought that following a certain protocol, a certain number of guidelines would get us what we wanted... without truly knowing that we'd get what we wanted if we made OURSELVES a priority before anything else.


TheMessageBoy mentions "being yourself" but isn't "being yourself" what got a LOT of us into trouble in the first place?

This forum teaches us to BECOME a better version of ourselves.
Were we once saw ALL women as wonderful and superior creatures, we now see them for the ugly truth itself. Only a handful are true quality and this is a process of weeding out, which is why "spinning plates" and "hitting the gym" is a constant.

How can you become a better selector if you are not a prime choice in the first place? How can you make sure that what you are getting is Grade A meat if you haven't tried all the others out there first?

It's the ones who settle for the first to come along that suffer the most. Those that haven't experienced life are the ones that become miserable. Those of us who choose to be unplugged can choose to live a better life. But it comes with the unfortunate price of having the veil removed from our eyes permanently. Is this cost worth it?

Yes.

I am being myself, but a better version of Kailex. Kailex 2010 > Kailex 2005
But also Women 2005 > Women 2010

Simply because I didn't KNOW any better.
Now that I do, I don't want to go back to being ignorant. Now I have a CHOICE. Now I don't have to conform to the marriage paradigm of: Find someone, marry, buy home, have kids...


Now I have a CHOICE.
Now I can become a MUCH better Kailex, a Kailex that can actively CHOOSE a better someone EVENTUALLY. Knowing that neg-hits work all the time IS depressing, but it's through this process that my selection becomes much more broader. I can now recognize the everyday woman and set her aside. I'm better informed in order to make future choices... and how can that NOT be a positive in the long run?

It's not so much that this is a sub-culture, but it's the fact that all of the older people here (Older than 40) have SEEN first-hand the changes within the world and have had the experience to enlighten us on how the world isn't as romantic as we once thought it was. It's an apalling change... the vision of who I thought I would be at age 20... from the vision of who I am now at ALMOST age 30.

Would I be better off without this knowledge? Not at all.

squirrels said:

How did I become such a woman-hating misogynist?

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I think you answered your own question with this:

squirrels said:

That air-headed, self-centered, "look at how beautiful I am" attitude. That sense of entitlement she exudes just by virtue of being physically good looking. That, "entertain me, jester" way she looks at every guy who speaks to her.

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and...

squirrels said:

I'm hanging out with friends somewhere and suddenly their entire WORLD stops when a couple of pretty faces show up on the scene.

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Yeah, most men aren't helping things out either.

squirrels said:

hell, many of them even had personalities and things going on in their lives.

Have they "changed", or have I?

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I think it was Deep Dish who warned about 'too much' self improvement. Basically this means that you've grown so much that you can't relate to the 'average person' any longer. I think he said something like "pop yourself so far outside the system you can't come back."

Now I'm not going to say if this is a good or bad thing, I'm just saying that I agree it can be one effect of years of self improvement.

squirrels said:

Are any of you guys still "talking to women"? Or are you all struggling with relationships and drama?

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Most women seems like children to me. I don't think this is an age issue, but rather an issue of relative maturity levels: women my own age I find to be child-like as well.

But I have no solution for any of this.

EDIT: Didn't this happen to Pook, too?

I think it was Deep Dish who warned about 'too much' self improvement. Basically this means that you've grown so much that you can't relate to the 'average person' any longer. I think he said something like "pop yourself so far outside the system you can't come back."

Now I'm not going to say if this is a good or bad thing, I'm just saying that I agree it can be one effect of years of self improvement.

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is this supposed to be a bad thing?

the avg person freaking sucks.t he avg person, not just woman, person has no plans beyond the coming weekend, no ambition, no drive, no savings, are stuck at jobs they don't want, have debt, have no backbone, are afraid to take risks, are afraid to fail and at the same time afraid to succeed, thinks the world owes them something, think it's perfectly fine to get off work and play video games all day/ get online and chat all day, spends their work day on facebook instead of trying to get ahead, and i can go on and on.

excuse me if i am not dying to relate to the avg person..

with that said, i dont and didn't have to think a woman was a great woman to have sex with her. if antyhing it just showed me that most women aren't worth the long term relationship effort, and i i was quick to not fall for games, they got the eject button.

i don't expect most people to relate to me because i can't relate to them. that's fine with me. when a guy tells me about his ****ty boss and how he doodled online all day on forums instead of working, no i can't relate to that. when a woman tells me she is waiting for a man to come and help her out, no i can't nor do i want to relate to that.


something else i will mention. most women can be more mature than we give them credit for. the problem in most cases is that they see no incentive to act their age so to speak.

it's like that other post where the guy's wife was dangling another man in front of him. the woman has no incentive to not play games because she doesn't care what his response will be. when a woman does not care anymore you've lost. and she doesn't care because deep down she isn't afraid of losing him. she isn't' afraid of losing him because he doesn't bring enough to the table to warrant caring if he left. sad reaity but it's the truth.

and the cure is, YOU. it always, always starts and ends with you. always.

you don't make her care by neg hitting or playing games, stopping to her level or even dating other women. you make her care by building more vaule in yourself. Becoming a better all around person.

Kailex said:

But were you working on yourself BEFORE you came here?
The undeniable truth for the majority of us was that we DIDN'T know how to work on ourselves. We just thought that following a certain protocol, a certain number of guidelines would get us what we wanted... without truly knowing that we'd get what we wanted if we made OURSELVES a priority before anything else.


TheMessageBoy mentions "being yourself" but isn't "being yourself" what got a LOT of us into trouble in the first place?

This forum teaches us to BECOME a better version of ourselves.
Were we once saw ALL women as wonderful and superior creatures, we now see them for the ugly truth itself. Only a handful are true quality and this is a process of weeding out, which is why "spinning plates" and "hitting the gym" is a constant.

How can you become a better selector if you are not a prime choice in the first place? How can you make sure that what you are getting is Grade A meat if you haven't tried all the others out there first?

It's the ones who settle for the first to come along that suffer the most. Those that haven't experienced life are the ones that become miserable. Those of us who choose to be unplugged can choose to live a better life. But it comes with the unfortunate price of having the veil removed from our eyes permanently. Is this cost worth it?

Yes.

I am being myself, but a better version of Kailex. Kailex 2010 > Kailex 2005
But also Women 2005 > Women 2010

Simply because I didn't KNOW any better.
Now that I do, I don't want to go back to being ignorant. Now I have a CHOICE. Now I don't have to conform to the marriage paradigm of: Find someone, marry, buy home, have kids...


Now I have a CHOICE.
Now I can become a MUCH better Kailex, a Kailex that can actively CHOOSE a better someone EVENTUALLY. Knowing that neg-hits work all the time IS depressing, but it's through this process that my selection becomes much more broader. I can now recognize the everyday woman and set her aside. I'm better informed in order to make future choices... and how can that NOT be a positive in the long run?

It's not so much that this is a sub-culture, but it's the fact that all of the older people here (Older than 40) have SEEN first-hand the changes within the world and have had the experience to enlighten us on how the world isn't as romantic as we once thought it was. It's an apalling change... the vision of who I thought I would be at age 20... from the vision of who I am now at ALMOST age 30.

Would I be better off without this knowledge? Not at all.

Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from, but the problem is that the threads on this board no longer support the idea of becoming a better version of ourselves.

Instead, the focus is now on being bitter about the lack of self improvement before visiting Sosuave and projecting that bitterness on women and society.

For example, people who told us that we should be ourselves, perhaps meant to say that we should be the best version of ourselves. But we never got that message, that is, until we became a member of this board. Therefor, we shouldn't blame women and society for giving bad advice, but we should blame ourselves for our bad interpretation of the advice thats been given to us.

Second, your point of view that there is only a handful of quality women and calling this 'the ugly truth' is really one sided and typical of the sosuave sub-culture. There's another side you don't see: the women that broke your heart may very well be high quality girls for other guy's and in other times. People change, people improve, you change, you improve, women change, women improve. And be honest, you don't know all women in this world and neither does anyone on this board. It's not valid to claim that most women are low quality. You can't jump to conclusions.

These are just a few examples of all the poorly grounded assumptions you make in this posts. All these so called ''truths'' like being plugged into the Matrix, neg-hits working all the time, women being higher quality in 2005 and having to conform to a marriage paradigm are just overgeneralizations. Your jumping to conclusions based on your own experience and what you read on this board.

By overgeneralizing and making assumptions on the basis of your experience and what you read on this board, you are basically putting on sunglasses and then complain the world is darker!

Really think for a second. Did someone point a gun to your head and ordered you to marry, buy a house and have kids? Of course not! Are you going to be murdered now that you afre unplugged from the matrix and know the ugly truth? Of course not! Is a girl who flakes on a date a worthless low quality ho who has never done anything right in here life and never will do anything admirable until the day she dies? Of course not!

Put those sunglasses down and focus on the bright side of life. If you want to see stupid lying, flaking and cheating b*tches, you will see them, everywhere, all the time. If you want to see beautiful angels that will suck your d*ck twice a day and if you want to see a girls who pray to god every sunday that you and them will be together until the end of time and then live an eternal life of eating fruit, watching the NBA and butt seksing in paradise without ever hurting you once, you will find them to. Its just a matter of putting on the right glasses.