If I've been going out with a woman for more than a few months, and I have been initiating all dates and paying for things (not often as I try to eliminate pay dates as much as possible) and she has not yet made an effort to take me out or suggest any date ideas, I start to get the feeling that she is either self absorbed, or just along for a ride and does not want a relationship.

I'm not talking about "giving" sex here. The idea that a woman's way to reciprocate in a relationship is through sex is not what I am looking for. (I guess I dont mind this at first, but I really I want to know when you expect a woman to take a more active role in the relationship - especially when she should be making an effort to do something thoughtful for you or take you out once in a while....

From the very start.

Else you're just training her to expect to be pampered by you, and by your description, you're doing a pretty good job at that.

How would you react to someone who allows you to be in a certain way for a few months around him/her then all of a sudden wants you to be the opposite of that?

I'm with you MDM, I believe women should at least ATTEMPT to contribute in some way to the costs of going on a date.
I usually pay for the first date but keep a good watch out for her reaching for her purse or offering to pay for drinks.
90 per cent of the time I stop her from paying, but the fact she actually tried to chip in gets a big tick from me.
Any future dates I fully expect the girl to contribute and suggest so.
eg: You get the bill delivered to the table and I say: 'Righto, I'll get the food and how about you get the drinks?'
If she's serious about you she'll be happy to pay the $20 or whatever for drinks while you pay the $100 for food.
If she's not serious about you, she won't want to go out with you again and your dilemma is solved.
I'm no expert but that's been my modus operandi for a few years now and it's helped me a lot.

Next time you are out, when you get the dinner check, or are about to enter the movies - look at her sternly and ask "you gonna help me with this?". She should be dutching up at this point.

Also, you might be boring her to death, if you are on a dinner/movie pattern. Mix it up, go skating, to a football game, hockey game, skydiving, bowling, skiing, hiking, etc.

Action dates.

MPM DJP said:

If I've been going out with a woman for more than a few months, and I have been initiating all dates and paying for things (not often as I try to eliminate pay dates as much as possible) and she has not yet made an effort to take me out or suggest any date ideas, I start to get the feeling that she is either self absorbed, or just along for a ride and does not want a relationship.

I'm not talking about "giving" sex here. The idea that a woman's way to reciprocate in a relationship is through sex is not what I am looking for. (I guess I dont mind this at first, but I really I want to know when you expect a woman to take a more active role in the relationship - especially when she should be making an effort to do something thoughtful for you or take you out once in a while....

Click to expand...

* Are you sleeping with her on a regular basis?

* Do you see this as an "exclusive" relationship...does she ?

* Does she refer to you and her as "we" often ?

* Has she made attempts to integrate you into her life. Does she want you to meet her friends and family?

* Does she sometimes do small thoughtful things for you ? A gift or a cool card for no special reason ?

* Would she remember your birthday and make an effort to celebrate it?

* Women who are interested in an LTR frequently buy items of clothing for the guy..does she ?

* Does she express her affection or her appreciation for you in person or in emails?

* IF you were ill would she come by and cook and clean?

Ideally all these questions would be answered "yes" . The number of "no's" would be a measure of her lack of real involvement and commitment to YOU .

"The greatest truth is in her behavior ."