This is ElStud and here I'm going to just write about what I've learned from the game thus far in an attempt to help newer members. Hate me, argue against me, this doesn't matter to me as I've been out in the field and I've seen what I've seen from experience. Past that? Okay. Here I'll probably just giving my insights on what my thoughts are on certain subjects of seduction.

The Looks Myth

Okay, the looks argument, we can all debate this for days. But my opinion on this from my experiences is that looks can help a guy, but can't ultimately get him laid off of just that. This is from my experience, game has been more about subcommunication and mindset, more than looks or words. Just look at me, I'm not the greatest looking guy, but I can consistantly go up to girls and get interest(And also many numbers). This is because of my subcommunication and my beliefs, NOT because of my looks.

Rejection

What do I think about rejection? Well first we have to ask what is rejection? In my opinion, it's when a girl does or says something to show she's not interested. So rejection in my book is not only when you ask for the number and she says "no", but it can also be when you just go up to a girl and she straight says "F*ck off" or "Sorry, I can't talk to you".

Having been in the field awhile, I've been rejected quite a bit. But how do you deal with rejection? Well you have to learn to just move on. You have to learn to not react to the rejection and simply move on to the next girl. Girl A at a bar rejects you, move onto Girl B, Girl B at a bar rejects you, move on to Girl C and so on. So yeah, best way to deal with rejection is to just become unreactive to it. Girl rejects you, move on.

Also know that if a girl does reject you, it MAY not necessarily be YOUR fault. She could be having a bad day, her dog might've died, her boyfriend might've dumped her. However, none of this has to do with you, so if you go up to a girl and she immediately blows you out, MOVE ON. Chances are it has NOTHING to do with you [and if it does so what]. Just move on to the next set. Don't look back. Don't think about that last set. MOVE ON. This mindset is one I've been partially working on myself. Now I wasn't the guy who would really be "affected" by rejection, but in the back of my head I still thought about the set a little. Recently, I've been getting rid of that and now I don't even give the rejection another thought after it happens.

Be the real you.

Being the real you is a big part of game. It's just more fun going up to her being real, then going up to her and using some routines or just trying to get in her pants. Now being genuine doesn't mean you can't seduce her, no. And actually getting to know her, DOESN'T mean you'll get stuck in the friend zone. If you do that's your fault. You can still escalate, qualify, get her number, blah blah and still have a genuine good time with her. And some guys'll come back at me saying "lol you'll get in the friend zone" but I'll restate, if you get locked in the friend zone, that's your fault.

Being real, has to be learned though and to actually start being real, you need to figure out who YOU really are when the girls not around. Once you can start being who you really are when talking to her, the conversations will start becoming more genuine and you'll start actually liking the girl for who she is. From here you can start looking for what personality traits and stuff you actually want in a woman.

Another thing I want to touch on this topic is there should be no difference between you when you're talking to a woman and you when you're just by yourself. What I'm saying is there should be no "Pickup Mode" and no "Non Pickup Mode". This means you should act the SAME way as you do all the time when you're talking to woman.

Words Words Words

This is a big problem on these forums. Most of the guys here will teach you that it's all about the words, but that's not true. From my experience, it's mostly about subcommunication. For instance, you can say the BEST line and if your subcommunication is bad, you still won't get interest. On the other hand, you can say the stupidest sh*t and if your subcommunication is GOOD it might work. This is why I say that it's not all about the words.

Most people think you actually "NEED" lines to get a girl interested but that's not so. It's the subcommunication and confidence that you deliver while talking that makes her interested. I've gone up to girls with simple "Hi, I wanted to talk to you", go straight down the rapport line, maybe tell her some stuff about my life and I get numbers. And hell, so longs your subcommunication is good, you can talk about anything. Point in case, I've talked to girls about freaking Pokemon and video games before and they were still interested in the convo.

High Energy

Generally when you're talking to a girl, you should NOT be that high energy in my experience. Most likely if you come in there like REALLY high energy, dancing around and sh*t, they'll see you as the dancing monkey. I went through a phase like this back in HS where I'd just go up to girls all high energy and basically being the dancing monkey. Because they were laughing and reacting I thought I was doing something good. But in the end, I was just being the dancing monkey.

So from my experience, you should just go up to a girl calm and chill. This subcommunicates a lot of good things. It subcommunicates that you can actually be comfortable around a beautiful woman, which is good. It also can subcommunicate that you are confident in your game, as you are very calm and not really nervous. But how can you be calm? Simple, practice just breathing in and breathing out slowly.

But yeah, this is just a little thread I thought I'd make. Flame me

Im glad im the first to respond to this. Ive been waiting to see what kind of bullsh*t you were gonna type up. I understand youre trying to help and give advice, but your experience of the "game" is one dimensional. All youve ever done is approached. You dont regularly go on dates, youre a virgin, you dont post FRs about kiss closes or anything of that nature. I also think its inane to take advice from a virgin who fails to get dates from the girls he approaches. Why would you give advice if you have MAYBE a 1% success rate of getting a real number and date. Once again, instead of trying to impress a bunch of fictious people on the internet who dont know what theyre talking about, as far as youre concerned, get your life together and improve...something you seemingly refuse to do. Youve got plenty of faults, as we all do, the only difference is we arent that arrogant and try to improve ourselves.

Blah blah and ignore. You bring nothing but negativity amongst the board and this topic. You think you know everything and your intent is nothing but to fight. You my friend are ignored.

oakraiderz2 said:

Im glad im the first to respond to this. Ive been waiting to see what kind of bullsh*t you were gonna type up. I understand youre trying to help and give advice, but your experience of the "game" is one dimensional. All youve ever done is approached. You dont regularly go on dates, youre a virgin, you dont post FRs about kiss closes or anything of that nature. I also think its inane to take advice from a virgin who fails to get dates from the girls he approaches. Why would you give advice if you have MAYBE a 1% success rate of getting a real number and date. Once again, instead of trying to impress a bunch of fictious people on the internet who dont know what theyre talking about, as far as youre concerned, get your life together and improve...something you seemingly refuse to do. Youve got plenty of faults, as we all do, the only difference is we arent that arrogant and try to improve ourselves.

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This guy sounds arrogant but actually what he is saying has valid points. Keep your ego grounded so you have room to learn. Maybe we all need harsh criticism from others to push ourselves and remain grounded.

Your advice is well taken. No hating on that. But you know where your game is, and if you are unable to improve, which obviously you are not, you need some push from someone else.

None of us are haters, we all want to see our community become better. But coming back to the topic, your advice is alright.. might help some beginners.

daygameguy said:

This guy sounds arrogant but actually what he is saying has valid points. Keep your ego grounded so you have room to learn. Maybe we all need harsh criticism from others to push ourselves and remain grounded.

Your advice is well taken. No hating on that. But you know where your game is, and if you are unable to improve, which obviously you are not, you need some push from someone else.

None of us are haters, we all want to see our community become better. But coming back to the topic, your advice is alright.. might help some beginners.

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I say whatever, I've seen what I've seen, people can take it or they can't it. You know everything about me, great. Yes, what you think you know is wrong, but who cares, come tommorow I'll still be approaching, getting numbers, having fun, regardless of anything said here. And come tommorow, I'll still be who I am, REGARDLESS of what some idiots on some forum THINK I am.

So it all comes down to this, does a person want to take this advice and improve or don't they.

Not bad Mikey! You can take advice from many different sources and hash it into one post. This is the equivelint of memorizing the answers for a test. Yeah you might get an A on the test, but when it comes to real life application you struggle.

Yeah, yeah, I know you're going to come back and make some smart remark how I don't know you, and probably if I am lucky I'll get a "whatever" out of you.

But let me tell it to you straight. When it comes to approaching you have balls. I will give that much too you. But what happens after you get the number? You keep saying you're practicing or having fun, but be honest Mike, you're scared of the next step. No shame in it, just like when you first started approaching there was that nervous tension. You've let that fear get to you and now you're just treading water. You can't tread water forever, eventually you will get tired and drown or you get eaten by the sharks. You have to swim.

I have to agree with oakraiderz, your experience of the game is one dimensional. Eventhough you know that one dimension extremely well. It won't get you much farther than where you are at right now. Time to take the next step Mike...

theunflushables said:

Not bad Mikey! You can take advice from many different sources and hash it into one post. This is the equivelint of memorizing the answers for a test. Yeah you might get an A on the test, but when it comes to real life application you struggle.

Yeah, yeah, I know you're going to come back and make some smart remark how I don't know you, and probably if I am lucky I'll get a "whatever" out of you.

But let me tell it to you straight. When it comes to approaching you have balls. I will give that much too you. But what happens after you get the number? You keep saying you're practicing or having fun, but be honest Mike, you're scared of the next step. No shame in it, just like when you first started approaching there was that nervous tension. You've let that fear get to you and now you're just treading water. You can't tread water forever, eventually you will get tired and drown or you get eaten by the sharks. You have to swim.

I have to agree with oakraiderz, your experience of the game is one dimensional. Eventhough you know that one dimension extremely well. It won't get you much farther than where you are at right now. Time to take the next step Mike...

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You know everything. Must I even post a reply? I mean you have it figured out already. No point in me posting anything. Not saying you're wrong, not saying you're right. But you already have it figured out, no need for me to say anything.

ElStud coming at us with a solution and not a problem! Congradulations on your new found knowledge. Things take patience and they paid off right?

Go out and get laid consistently, then you can give advice on this forum.

It's almost as if you've got something against getting laid.

honestly, i have no idea who you are elstud, or who any of the other people are here. i am a lurker for the most part (with sometimes me posting drunken topics with a girl in the other room that im about to bone)

i thought your post was good, but what i also noticed was you are super close-minded to what everyone else was saying



just throwin that out there

pua1989 said:

honestly, i have no idea who you are elstud, or who any of the other people are here. i am a lurker for the most part (with sometimes me posting drunken topics with a girl in the other room that im about to bone)

i thought your post was good, but what i also noticed was you are super close-minded to what everyone else was saying



just throwin that out there

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And your point? You guys on the forum really need to stop worrying about other people and get your own game straight. I'm gonna be close minded especially considering who the people posting are. People who probably don't go out in the field as much as me, who make bogus assumptions about me.

Plus their mindset about the whole game is just different from a mindset. So take it or don't. I been out in the field and this is the stuff that works for me personally. This is the mindset that has gotten ME the most success for ME. And like anything it might not work for YOU or the average Joe Schmoe. Everyones different and in the end, everyone has to find their own style of pick up.

But yeah I'm closed minded buddy, especially when the people giving so called "Harsh criticism" are really doing nothing but making bogus assumptions about me. Do these idiots know me personally? Nope. Do these idiots know of my results? Nope. Have these idiots seen me approach a girl? Nope. So they assume from probably some FR a year or 2 ago [not looking at any of the recent ones] that I don't get "dates" and that I "haven't got further than a number".

And besides, you guys need to stop being ass pirates. "OMG! YOU DIDN'T F*CK THE SH*T OUT OF HER, YOU'RE NOT GETTING SUCCESS" that's funny. Anyway, I live by my own mindset and I'm not here to make any of you believe or not believe. The thread post is basically my opinion from MY experiences. Really your better off reading this than taking advice from ass pirates like oakraiderz who see the game as nothing more than "getting p*ssy". Tell me, do you think with his PUA, ass pirate, "I gotta get some p*ssy" mindset, that he actually consistantly pulls? Chances are he doesn't because he's still being fake with him.

So he can go up there be a PUA. I'll be myself. I'll have fun. I'll go out there and keep improving. I won't worry about being rejected. Really it's whatever works for you. Basically I see it as just going out there, trying some things and seeing what works best for my style of gaming a girl.

ElStud said:

And your point? You guys on the forum really need to stop worrying about other people and get your own game straight.

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In fairness this is a discussion forum, if you post something then people are going to reply either agreeing or disagreeing with it.

For the record I agree with most, if not all of what you've said, but you seem to react very aggressively to some of what's been said in response, when in reality if you opened your mind a bit more you might learn something...

LuisGarcia10 said:

In fairness this is a discussion forum, if you post something then people are going to reply either agreeing or disagreeing with it.

For the record I agree with most, if not all of what you've said, but you seem to react very aggressively to some of what's been said in response, when in reality if you opened your mind a bit more you might learn something...

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See, but that's still the point. Get off my d*ck and take it or don't. I could waste my time discussing all day, but I'm not gonna "discuss" with people who make bogus assumptions, don't understand my mindset in the first place and also have a whole different mindset about game. And more so, if you have not TRIED to understand my mindset or how I game, you can't validly "discuss" anything.

"OMG! ELSTUD GETS NO DATES LOL! HOW THE F*CK DO I KNOW THIS? LOL I JUST DO! LOL ELSTUD YOU NEED UP YOUR GAME CAUSE I APPARENTLY STALK YOU 24/7 SO I KNOW YOU GET NO DATES! BS yapping... BS yapping..." is not a valid argument.

I mean, you want to get on my d*ck, I can probably find something in your post to get on your d*ck about, but I'm just not that kind of person. You want to criticize me, I can find something to criticize YOU on.

You guys need to stop focusing on the "ass pirate" level of the game and actually have fun with it. Actually get to know the females yourselves. And actually look at the game BEYOND WOMEN. Becoming "genuine" isn't just about the women, it's about becoming a more "genuine" person with everyone. And seduction isn't just about girls and "*****" it's about becoming a better person.

"OMG BUT I GET LAID MORE THAN YOU ELSTUD" great, that's great. But tell me sir, is there anything OTHER in your life than getting some p*ssy? Better yet, tell me something you GENUINELY liked about the girl. Her body parts don't count. See the thing is, is you guys are missing the BIGGER PICTURE. You see this whole thing as just a ways to "lay women" and not as a ways to improve your life.

ElStud said:

See, but that's still the point. Get off my d*ck and take it or don't. I could waste my time discussing all day, but I'm not gonna "discuss" with people who make bogus assumptions, don't understand my mindset in the first place and also have a whole different mindset about game. And more so, if you have not TRIED to understand my mindset or how I game, you can't validly "discuss" anything.

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I think 90% if not 100% of people in this thread have agreed with what you've said, and to be honest you haven't really explained your mindset that clearly.

I'll put it another way, presumeably the reason you joined this forum in the first place was to learn more about seduction, self improvement, social skills etc, and unless you can honestly say to yourself that you can learn no more, that you are at the pinnacle of your ability as a man, then you can still learn.

The very nature of a world-wide internet forum dictates that very few members will know each other personally, so all we have to go on is what you've posted. I have no idea how many girls you've slept with or what you do after you've got a number, frankly I don't care, I think, for the record, that what you've posted is going to be helpful to a lot of people, I mean myself only the other day **** out of approaching a hot girl who was clearly eyeing me up. I'll be honest, I knew most of what you posted already, but sometimes it falls to the back of the mind and doesn't get put into practice, so it is good to be reminded.

However, you can't blame people for not necessarily agreeing with everything you say. If you think people need to know more about your mindset before discussing everything then by all means explaining it, rather than lashing out. (although I do agree that one or two replies, notably the first one, were overly aggressive and don't exactly contribute to any kind of sensible discussion.)

LuisGarcia10 said:

I think 90% if not 100% of people in this thread have agreed with what you've said, and to be honest you haven't really explained your mindset that clearly.

I'll put it another way, presumeably the reason you joined this forum in the first place was to learn more about seduction, self improvement, social skills etc, and unless you can honestly say to yourself that you can learn no more, that you are at the pinnacle of your ability as a man, then you can still learn.

The very nature of a world-wide internet forum dictates that very few members will know each other personally, so all we have to go on is what you've posted. I have no idea how many girls you've slept with or what you do after you've got a number, frankly I don't care, I think, for the record, that what you've posted is going to be helpful to a lot of people, I mean myself only the other day **** out of approaching a hot girl who was clearly eyeing me up. I'll be honest, I knew most of what you posted already, but sometimes it falls to the back of the mind and doesn't get put into practice, so it is good to be reminded.

However, you can't blame people for not necessarily agreeing with everything you say. If you think people need to know more about your mindset before discussing everything then by all means explaining it, rather than lashing out. (although I do agree that one or two replies, notably the first one, were overly aggressive and don't exactly contribute to any kind of sensible discussion.)

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I'm not at a "pinnacle" however it would be better for me to learn from people with similar mindsets, like RSD guys and guys practicing natural game. It's pretty clear that a lot of people on here are in the game for nothing more than one thing, getting sex. Well, that's not be bud. I actually want to know how to be my natural self around girls and genuinely talk to them.

TBH, sex isn't even that big of a deal to me. I approach girls more just to try things and improve my game, maybe just meet a nice person who could become a sexual mate. I get laid great, I don't, doesn't bother me too much.

ElStud said:

And seduction isn't just about girls and "*****" it's about becoming a better person.

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If you want to become a better person, do some community service. The point of seducing women is to get laid.

LuisGarcia10 said:

In fairness this is a discussion forum, if you post something then people are going to reply either agreeing or disagreeing with it.

For the record I agree with most, if not all of what you've said, but you seem to react very aggressively to some of what's been said in response, when in reality if you opened your mind a bit more you might learn something...

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he cant take constructive critiscm , as soon as he does he starts arguing like you killed his mother or some ****, he really is pathetic and i would not believe he even approached girls if it wasnt for all the creeped out responses they give back to him, just **** him he cant be helped

ElStud said:

See, but that's still the point. Get off my d*ck and take it or don't. I could waste my time discussing all day, but I'm not gonna "discuss" with people who make bogus assumptions, don't understand my mindset in the first place and also have a whole different mindset about game. And more so, if you have not TRIED to understand my mindset or how I game, you can't validly "discuss" anything.

"OMG! ELSTUD GETS NO DATES LOL! HOW THE F*CK DO I KNOW THIS? LOL I JUST DO! LOL ELSTUD YOU NEED UP YOUR GAME CAUSE I APPARENTLY STALK YOU 24/7 SO I KNOW YOU GET NO DATES! BS yapping... BS yapping..." is not a valid argument.

I mean, you want to get on my d*ck, I can probably find something in your post to get on your d*ck about, but I'm just not that kind of person. You want to criticize me, I can find something to criticize YOU on.

You guys need to stop focusing on the "ass pirate" level of the game and actually have fun with it. Actually get to know the females yourselves. And actually look at the game BEYOND WOMEN. Becoming "genuine" isn't just about the women, it's about becoming a more "genuine" person with everyone. And seduction isn't just about girls and "*****" it's about becoming a better person.

"OMG BUT I GET LAID MORE THAN YOU ELSTUD" great, that's great. But tell me sir, is there anything OTHER in your life than getting some p*ssy? Better yet, tell me something you GENUINELY liked about the girl. Her body parts don't count. See the thing is, is you guys are missing the BIGGER PICTURE. You see this whole thing as just a ways to "lay women" and not as a ways to improve your life.

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And this is why people criticize you.

Seriously, what lol :rockon:

I am being genuine. I "genuinely" want to have sex with them.

ElStud said:

What do I think about rejection? Well first we have to ask what is rejection? In my opinion, it's when a girl does or says something to show she's not interested. So rejection in my book is not only when you ask for the number and she says "no", but it can also be when you just go up to a girl and she straight says "F*ck off" or "Sorry, I can't talk to you".

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What is the difference between rejection and frustration? I think from our stand-point, we experience frustration when we do not get what we want rather than rejection, and a relief when we do get what we want. I'm actually trying to get 'rejection' out of my vocabulary, and replacing it with two words: frustration and relief -- because those are the only two words that make sence. What do you think about that idea?

ElStud said:

Being the real you is a big part of game. It's just more fun going up to her being real, then going up to her and using some routines or just trying to get in her pants. Now being genuine doesn't mean you can't seduce her, no. And actually getting to know her, DOESN'T mean you'll get stuck in the friend zone. If you do that's your fault. You can still escalate, qualify, get her number, blah blah and still have a genuine good time with her. And some guys'll come back at me saying "lol you'll get in the friend zone" but I'll restate, if you get locked in the friend zone, that's your fault.

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I believe the other posters are correct if it is true that your only kiss experience was with a drunk prostitute at a hotel room and have nothing else to show except for names and numbers, then this particular paragraph sounds sketchy. But if you just want to be happy 'socially' without getting laid, I think your advice is GOLD.

So, it seems that your main problem is in follow-up then? Is your goal just to get phone numbers, that's it - your ultimate conquest? I can get phone numbers too. I'd just say it's the luck of the draw and you have to play by talking to girls, irrespective of how you feel -- maybe your frustration will inspire you to try harder until you get the release you are looking for.

Like you, I see frustration build-up as working for you -- you get frustrated when you get rejection -- but frustration also builds confidence by making you more confident and single-minded and at least willing to risk more -- eventually getting the release or relief that you are looking for.

The main battle is your central nervous system. If you see rejection as not that big of a deal and you like talking to attractive girls and you get less nervous because you are more comfortable and familiar with what you are doing. I think the quality of life can greatly improve if you are in a position of comfort of confidently approaching, talking to girls and having a good-time with them. It builds your mind up. I'd like to live the DJ life of ElStud -- and if anyone flames this guy -- at least he is happy -- or found what he wants with women. If he just loves talking to them and making friends and getting numbers -- he has my vote. Heck, I'd be happy if I were out of my shell like this too. Key-lesson, not to take anything personal.

I'd like to know how to have a fun time with a girl -- like talk with her and make her laugh or laugh together. I'm sure you can do this. This is another example of a major social conquest that's apart from getting laid. I don't think getting laid has to be the bottom line of success -- and think ElStud has it right on.