Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The natural order of things - Sexuality defined and explained!

Visceral

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PRL, what's your take on the repression of sexuality?

You cover the warping of it very thoroughly, but these are all situations where sexuality is still being expressed.

What would you say is at work in a situation where sexuality is not being expressed, either consciously held back or as the result of ignorance of it?
 
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Magnanimus

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The essay on duality was very good but hardly a revelation.

As for the rest of the post it was *entirely* subjective!

Isn’t it convenient that you are the male and your ‘natural way’ means you have all the 'power' in the relationship?

Your views on ‘homos’ and ‘wh@res’ are self serving to justify your own trite beliefs and make you feel comfortable.

I agree with some of the sentiments, but times have changed and I actually prefer a woman with 'balls' and a mind of her own as opposed to an utterly submissive archetypal 'virgin’ figure.

Why this lust for power and domination of everything? It smacks of insecurity.
A man should above all else know himself and have the courage of his convictions and be a warrior –when he needs to be… Not in every petty interaction

Dont listen to this people...Read Pook’s posts…
 

I_Only_Live_Once

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WOW. we don't get posts like this anymore.
 

Call_Me_Daddy

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DevanE said:
How the fuk did you get banned that is the question because this was an amazing post to read. :rockon:
WTF? Why not just ban Rollo Tomassi and Desdinova and the rest of the quality posters while you ****ers are at it?
 

Jack McCrack

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So far this topic is full of bragging and wordy masturbation.

Filth.
 

Jay Jay

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When I first read the Book of Pook my brain exploded. A thousand doors swung open and I realised that feminism has indeed destroyed sexuality.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the nature of the masculine and feminine.

And the conclusions I drew make me think that PRL is absolute bullsh*t. Allow me to tear the above post to pieces.

If Pook was suggesting everything that PRL has said, I cannot say. He has limited himself to discussing homosexuality and its historical context on this thread.

He has however rightly pointed out that PRL has made assertions and statements without backing them up.

With such beautiful writing, big words and so full of information it is easy to not realise that his entire theory is based on faulty logic.

The argument here is that the feminine is submissive to the masculine.

Okay, before we go any further go check out Gunwitch theory.

He suggests that societies were set up by weak men so that they, the lesser men could control women. Now the fact is that all the blokes railing about women escaping gender roles are these WEAK MEN.

If you are a strong man you will love the fact that the woman has been freed so that she is free to do what she really wants; to **** YOU!

The weak men know deep down that they cannot compete with real men and thus seek to impose control on the feminine. They dream of the days when they could strike a deal with a friend and be given his daughter, where they could go to the slave market and buy one, where their woman is powerless to escape him.

Anyway, I digress, this is about punching holes in this ****ed up post above, not making many guys feel bad about being an evolutionary anomaly.

Firstly his definitions are bull****.

He says a dichotomy is CONTRADICTORY and then goes on to say they COMPLIMENTARY???

He then goes on to say that opposites are not the same.

You cannot have it both ways.

You can either accept the eastern spiritual concept that opposites are the same, just different faces of the same coin or the western idea that east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.

You cannot have it both ways, is duality complimentary or contradictory?

I’m not going to go into the paradox of opposites being the same; I’m just pointing this out to show how ridiculous his argument is.

Where his definitions put this entire post on faulty premises is when he makes the following links.

Feminine is receptive. I agree. This is ****ing obvious.

Receptive is submissive thus the feminine is submissive. Excuse me. Here he makes a leap that is completely unproved.

Yet this is the link that this entire argument rests upon.

Get a thesaurus. Look up either receptive or submissive. You won’t find the other word in the definition.

Until you can prove the following link

Femininity = Receptive = Submissive = Feminine

then this theory is nothing but a piece of ****, I don’t care how well constructed this piece of writing is, this is the foundation of the ENTIRE THEORY!

Receptive is NOT submissive.

I could kiss my guns and wrap up here. But I’m having fun.

Let’s punch a few more holes.

The world that PRL sees is a static one. This is false.

It is a dynamic one. It is a world where forces work against each other constantly bringing change!

He asserts that on the chromosomal level, things are “perfect” and unchanging.

I got one word for you if you believe this.

Evolution.

Yeah…

Okay so the universe is dynamic. From the subatomic level to the cosmic there is nothing but forces working in dynamic relationships bringing constant change.

And the weak is always overcome by the strong. Always! Sometimes it takes time, but the weaker forces are always destroyed (maybe destroyed is a bad word, integrated? whatever... you get the point).

Always!

And it is true on a biological level.

PRL spends a bit of time on the chromosomal level so I will use this as an example. The advantage of sexuality is that both male and female bring their genes to the table and guess what? The weak ones are rejected (or should be, once again PRL is wrong, this system is not perfect).

So hang on… if PRL is right and that the chromosomal level is a microcosm and that it is the nature of masculine to dominate the feminine then surely the sperm would fertilise an egg and the male’s chromosomes would dominate all the females’ chromosomes so she could give birth to a perfect clone of the male.

Now most guys’ reaction to reading that last comment will be, “now, Jay Jay, you have really lost me, that’s not what he is saying.” Well, that’s not what he is trying to say but that is the logical conclusion of what he is saying if we accept his idea of the microcosm.

Think about it.

If that’s a bit much for you let me put it this way, if the chromosomal level is a microcosm, if it reflects the nature of the feminine and masculine, then where is the “domination” when the sperm fertilises the egg?

What really happens when a little human is being made(mitosis) is a meeting of equals, the chemical activity creating a new person finds that which is weak and rejects it and that which is strong and keeps it.

Poor PRL, he really gets himself in tangles. His own logical progression leads him to state “man and woman are side by side.”

Hold on? If they are side by side than how can one be submissive. Submissive is beneath. That’s its very definition.

But he has thought about this to such an extent, and he is clearly highly intelligent, that logic forces him to admit that male and female are equal. Yet his opinion will not allow him to see what he himself has just proved! Genders are equal, niether submissive to the other.

Equal forces working in tandem, opposites but not opposing.

Moving on.

All the standard “stereotypes” of the man being dominant, that we see across all cultures and all history that are quoted are not stereotypes.

They are ARCHETYPES!

The archetypal man IS dominant. But he is NOT dominant over WOMEN. He is dominant over weaker men, as nature intends.

This is why we have the idea that a man should be dominant. Not so that he may dominate his partner, the female, but so that the weak may be culled.

The masculine is creative, not dominant.

The feminine is receptive, not submissive.

Now I kiss my guns!

JJ
 

Redux

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PuertoRican_Lover said:
‘Pairing’ at the microscopic chromosomal level…

This duality is truly the essence of life. Life comes from a pairing of parental chromosomes through a process called ‘mitosis’ whereby the cells divide and then replicate. This multiplication process creates new cells that carry the genes of both the mother (egg) and the father (sperm), and are the key ingredients and instructions that bring forth life. Life itself (you and me), are created not from a single cell life form but rather from this dichotomy that we call mother and father. Although I am a single individual, it took ‘two’ life forms to create my one physical, mental, and spiritual form. Without this duality, life could not be created nor would life exist. At the microscopic biological level, it is ONLY when the two chromosome pairs are combined (duality) that life can be and is created.
Bull. Unless you are only mentioning HUMAN life, which you aren't. A lot of organism survive through self division, cloning and so on.
 

LAWYER

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.

Lets sex all the *****s... shall we:kick:
 

Jay Jay

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DevanE said:
Good post Jay Jay, but you DO know that PRL is Last Man Standing right...?

Anyway, I understand completly what your saying but you have to look at the post as a whole and from a broader perspective in order to fully understand the depth of it. The thing is that your just focusing on 1 point out of the whole post and LOOKING for contradictions that would rationalize your point of view. For example, I KNOW you've read Last Man's posts and how he mentions women as "hors"...the thing is that their is truth beyind his posts and when he calls women's hors he actually means Women with feminist mindset which many guys on here think that he is bitter against women which he isn't. :rolleyes:

But I'm not going to go too much into depth because to each their own. Maybe LMS can shed more light on this for you.
PRL (or LMS if thats true) is the angel standing on the right shoulder of the DJ. I stood on the left in a little red suit coz no one else was there saying **** (I suspect all the real devils are out banging chicks).

Your point that I was looking to prove a point goes both ways. PRL did exactly the same thing on the other perspective. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

Yes, I was only looking at one point. But that was the one point PRL said he was trying to make.

As for the post as a whole... I feel that if I go into that I will get lost in a maze of tautology...

However I will stick to my guns and say that his post in no way affirms that the feminine is "submissive" although that may just be knit-picking as I agree they are reflective, receptive and responsive.

If LMS wants to debate this I would enjoy that.

But yeah I know where he is coming from and respect what he's trying to say, I just see it that he is only telling one side of a multi facetted reality and that can be dangerous and lead people astray.

JJ
 

Obsidian

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If you are a strong man you will love the fact that the woman has been freed so that she is free to do what she really wants; to **** YOU!
I don't think that's true. If you're a strong man you will be glad that she wants to f*ck you, but you will realize that she is very likely to f*ck your best friend and your brother and your dad at the same time. You could argue that being a "strong" man means not caring about that, but really...

Receptive and submissive are not the same thing necessarily, granted. However, if you look at the sex act, you will readily see that man is the *active* partner. Real leadership requires action, not mere receptivity. Moreover, we have seen throughout history that women are not as bold as men. Feminism has tried to alter the balance but without true success.

Submission does NOT mean inferiority as you described, Jay Jay. That is ridiculous. In economics, we typically pay CEOs a lot of money and honor presidents because they are IN HIGH DEMAND, not because they are inherently superior human beings. A relationship can't have two leaders if it's going to last very long the same way a country generally can't have two kings.

That said, if you still think the Theory of Hors if pure crap, then go f*ck a bunch of hors if you want. That way maybe you can keep em away from me because I'm pretty sick of masculine women.
 

DJF or John

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PRL...

respond to Jay Jay's comments.

I would respond first, but I think perhaps Jay Jay is opening up a great discussion here.
 
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The Natural Order Of Things revisited...

Hold on kid, let me put on my PuertoRican_Lover hat…it’s been a while let me find it - where did I put it? Ahhhhh, here it is!!! In perfect condition, just a little dust on it but it looks as handsome as ever! I’ve been reading Socrates and Plato recently and they have strengthen my logic and resolve on this matter of sexuality amongst the sexes. I do not want to debate you because in a debate you need parameters and specifics to be discussed and this topic is to wide to be confined. I would rather discuss my premise that “Sexuality is the duality that creates life” and restrict the conversation to this premise!

JJ, I have 4,300 posts under my PR_L screen name and my first post was “Say ‘No’ to hos”, and my last post was say ‘No’ to Ho-mos! Unfortunately, or fortunately, the latter was directed towards a few of the Mods who were deleting my posts without justification and wanted me to tone down my rhetoric on Hors and Ho-mos, which I refused to do and thus my banishment! I don’t write long descriptive posts nowadays but I’ll do so to entertain you.

I read your refutation and it was so convoluted and my words were so purposely maligned with malice of forethought that I disregarded it, but I gave you the benefit of my doubts considering that I was drinking, so I read them anew without the influence of alcohol and your logic was actually worse than I first perceived it to be! But I don’t think you followed the rules of logic but rather your words were influence by your prejudice and dislike of me based on my posts as LMS.

Jay Jay said:
The masculine is creative, not dominant.

The feminine is receptive, not submissive.
There is a logical flaw here – do you see it?

Can men be creative and dominant? Of course men can, as I started in my original post! Why must they be mutually exclusive?

Can women be receptive and submissive? Of course they can. Why not?

We are dynamic in our humanity and both sexes experience both conditions but in regards to our sexuality there must be a duality and complementary forces to create a harmonic balance!

If a female is receptive, as you state, then what is she receptive to? Yes, she is receptive to the advances of the male as THE dominant force. Contrary to the common belief here, men are the “choosers”, NOT the women! We initiate! Women, either receive us favorably or unfavorably! We are the “action” aggressive dominant force and women are at the receiving end of our sexual interest!



re•cep•tive


1. Capable of or qualified for receiving.
2. Ready or willing to receive favorably



dom•i•nant


1. Exercising the most influence or control.
2. Most prominent, as in position; ascendant



The male (us) make the decision of who we will pursue and the female either receives us favorably or rejects our advances (not necessarily us).

“Once” she receives us favorably then there must be a ”Natural Order Of Things” because when there are two people in an interactive environment, where decisions must be made, the generic rule of “majority rules” does not and cannot apply!!! Why? Because there can never be a majority; thus, a continuous stalemate or unresolved state will be maintained and therefore create a disharmonic unbalance and conflict and chaos will be the result!! Why would two unite to create a state of strife and conflict? This is a very dangerous state to be in considering that a family unit will be created and it will not stand in such a weak fractured state!! As evidenced by today’s dysfunctional familial structure in America!

So because we only have two human forces involved there must, in the end, be a final decision maker who is dominant and the other must submit to this dominance or else there will be a clash!!

Women have influence, but men have the "most" influence and thus are dominant in this regard!!

This does not refer to inanimate objects since decisions, in a familial structure, are a human characteristic and trait and unique in regards to sexuality.

Just as the electrical receptacle outlet is receptive to the pronged object to be electrified there are roles that each other must actualize to receive the full benefit of electrical energy – neither object on its’ own accord can realize its’ potential unless combined. This is a metaphor – can we procreate with two males or two females? NO! There must be complementary natures in the realm of sexuality to realize our full potential as human beings to further our species – sexuality is the duality that creates life! Truly it is!


sub•mit

1. To give over or yield to the power or authority of another

2. To yield oneself to the power or authority of another

3. To defer to another's judgment, opinion, decision, etc.:

The meanings of “Receptive” and “Submissive” are intertwined when looked at in context of the argument.

Women do have power because they are made of the same essence as men and by the same creative force who made their complementary natures, BUT when in combination with the dominant force (the male) they “submit” (i.e. Yield) their power to the dominant male! Why? Because this is their nature and must be so if there is to be a harmonic balance in the relationship and family unit! This does not subscribe them to an inferior role, as feminists charge, rather it is a complementary role as nature intended, to prepare for an organized and harmonic unity between the sexes!

As I said, when there is a union of two then there must be an authority since the majority cannot rule, since it does not apply; thus, the female “defers” her judgment, opinion, decision to the male to prevent a fracture in differing opinions, decisions!

de•fer

1. To yield respectfully in judgment or opinion.

2. To submit for decision;

3. Submit or yield to another's wish or opinion.

In simple summary, the female defers and submits to the dominant male her powers as a complementary nature so that a harmonious familial unit will be the result! This is a genetically wired trait in the female and not her voluntary decision! If she goes outside of this genetic universal law then a fracture is the result!

The Hor, as encouraged by the feminist movement, wishes to artificially go outside of her complementary nature as a woman and thus we have our current state of “battle of the sexes” which is wholly unnatural and detrimental to the male/female dynamic and the family structure!!
 
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ThunderMaverick

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The masculine is creative, not dominant.

The feminine is receptive, not submissive.


I'm glad Dr. P touched on this point and put it into better words than I could have. (Honestly I'd just be too lazy to address it.)

What I was going to say was something along the lines of:

"What? A guy can't be creative and strong all at once? Can't you get one from the other?" Oye.
 

Jay Jay

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Applauds

Well spoke LMS.

I truly wish you always spoke with this kind of logic rather than slavering about hors constantly. I understand why you think I have a problem with you personally but that is not true. Apologies for all insults.

I have a problem with the fact that by your definition of "hors" my mother, sisters and half of my friends are hors. This is deeply offensive and I think you are sabotaging your own posts by taking this approach.

Obviously I am guilty of the same and in hindsight there is much in my attack on your post I wish I had not included.

In the interest of integrity I have left my post unedited but all that **** about inferior males and such was deliberately provocative and just as your continual rants about "hors” retracts from you argument so does that **** I wrote retract from what I am saying.

As for your beautiful refutation of my rebuttal:

I was not suggesting masculine CANNOT be dominant. I was simply saying that it was not the innate nature of the masculine to DOMINATE the SUBMISSIVE feminine.

Rather I was using these words to bring what I believe is a more accurate definition and use less DANGEROUS wording.

I will clarify this last statement for this is the underlying reason I have felt it necessary to confront your posts.

Not many people possess your intellect.

Nope, a lot of guys will be reading your posts and internalising the idea that women who act in a particular way are not deserving of respect.

A few years ago, in my town there were a spate of gang rapes perpetrated by Muslim boys on “Aussie” girls. These brutal acts were justified in the perpetrators heads because Aussie girls are “sluts” and not worthy of respect; because the average Aussie girl acts in ways sinful in Islam (and hors in your opinion).

One teenage victim was picked up off my mother’s street where my 16 year old sister lived. I found it distressing to say the least that my sweet sister was now a “fair” target for rape because she wore a short skirt.

Obviously this is a total aberration of what is taught in Islam (and an aberration of what you are trying to say) but that is the way that an idiot will react when given the idea that a woman is a “hor.”

This has effected my opinion on these matters, why I feel it necessary to take this stand and why I am often aggressive and insulting to people who I see reflecting the attitude which I see leads directly to this kind of ****ed up ****!

Secondly to suggest that the male is dominant to the female is a dangerous idea to put into the heads of a lot of the neanderthals who will probably read this.

I ask you the question; what will be the real world expression of some moron who believes it is the natural order for him to “dominate” (exercising the most influence or control) a woman.

Visit a battered women’s shelter and you’ll see the dark side of a man thinking it’s his right to dominate a woman.

Now I am not trying to point the finger at you, far from it, it should not be your responsibility to censor yourself because some ****head takes what you say the wrong way.

But as I see things from this perspective I do feel the need to confront it

Anyway.

Truly we are arguing the same point. At no point have I attempted to suggest in anyway that sexuality is not the duality which creates life.

I attempted to create an image of equal forces operating in a dynamic relationship. The wording I used “creative and receptive” comes straight from the Taoist philosophy based on the ying and yang.

Really if you look at the definitions of “receptive” and “submissive” you will have to admit that receptive is a far better definition of the nature of the feminine.

If you have no wish to debate the topic then so be it. Having just indulged in a bit of Socrates I appreciate you not wanting to. LOL.

But it is unfair to say that and then assert that my argument is without logic without at least confronting certain points I have raised.

As a result I will shortly post another reply where I will talk about my assertion that the world described in your original post is static and why I am trying to say it is in fact dynamic (I was really hoping for someone to bite on that point…) and explain where I was leading with that.
 

Jay Jay

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I will talk about the “natural state” and the family unit briefly here; the nuclear family in particular.

It is not a “natural state” for humanity.

Simple as that. The nuclear family is breaking down because it is (was) a transitory state.

The breaking down of the nuclear family is not the result of feminism. Nay, feminism is a result of the family unit failing.

The human is “designed” (although I am not saying it is the “natural state”) to live in societies of about 100-120 people. Studies on pack animals have shown that the size of groups (pods, packs etc) has a direct correlation to the size of a particular area of the brain.

(Sorry dude I really wish I could provide a reference on this but I am actually writing this at work and don’t have time but I’m sure a bit of research will uncover it… fascinating stuff, you’d lover it).

So if this part of the brain is “yay” big then the size of the pack will be “yah” big. By following this formula then the size of a human community should be 100- 120.

That’s why we only have so many close friends, this part of our brain which controls social interactions can only cope with knowing a certain amount of people intimately.

Anthropology confirms this as almost all traditional societies are around this number. As soon as this number is exceeded significantly then the tribe will split (that’s when clans and then nations develop). If the number is too low the gene pool is too limited and evolution wields the axe.

Until the agricultural revolution the vast majority of humanity lived it small societies. In these societies women and men’s role were clearly defined.

I suggest that it was the creation on the nuclear family that is the CAUSE of women seeking to break from the nuclear family. I suggest their femininity demands it.

I’m sure that despite our different opinions on “submissiveness” we can all agree that (most) women love to socialise. The nuclear family isolated the woman from a broad social circle.

For women this isolation is torture.

It was not because of the heavy heal of patriarchy which caused women to rebel but the need to talk, gossip, interact and be a part of a vibrant social circle, for as well as bringing up the kids, the maintenance of the social circle is their basic instinct.

Why do you think women become so involved in those ****house soapies in the day and read those tabloids? It’s a substitute for the human drama they are born to indulge in.

This is why we have women suffering from PND. It should be the happiest moment of their life, instead they are miserable coz the have become completely cut off. In “the natural state” they had their sisters, mothers, aunts, cousins, friends all who were part if their immediate social circle ready to pick up the baby just as they were always ready to do it for them.

This dysfunctional family state in the US (which I also see here in Aus), which you refer to, is not the result of women having broken from their natural role but because the nuclear family never was “the natural state.” It was a transitory state.

The idea that one needs to be dominant and the other needs to be submissive for the nuclear family to work is a valid point. But the nuclear family is not the natural state and so I cannot see why we require masculine to be dominant and feminism submissive.

There is no natural state. Change is the only constant. Our world is changing rapidly and social institutions need to change accordingly.

Anyway I’ve kinda strayed from the point but I hope it highlights my worldview which forces me to disagree with the original post.

Well, better get back to work.

Peace
JJ.
 

THE_ADDMAN

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(at the original posts)

wow. just... wow.

opened my eyes :)
 

Jariel

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Reads like some kind of highbrow academic text and reeks of over-analysing and theory.

I try to steer clear of anything that uses pseudo-psychological, scientific or biological theory and jargon as this is the sort of mindset that causes more problems with women than improvements.

You guys who think like this need to chill out!
 
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