Masculine men seem odd to modern women

[Pandora]

You will seem odd to many women if you are a strong traditional masculine man. In Western society women are taught to compete with men. Not to respect them. So when a man comes along and is strong and traditional, it throws them for a loop. I recently dated two girls. I had sex with one and got physical with the other ( on the first date with both). One decided we would not work out and the 2nd one almost didnt want to see me again. These are the following reasons.

Reason for rejecting me:
Girl 1: My traditional views on gender roles was incompatible with hers. She was a feminist and believed that the sexual double standard is wrong. She also believed that their is no such thing as gender. It is all fluid.

Girl 2: She got angry at me for being decisive. She said that telling her the time and the place of our where we should meet was being too bossy. She said that i should give her options and not be so controlling. I explained to her that most women like a man to be decisive on the first date and that i didnt mean to offend her. She stated that her ex bfs all asked her what she wanted to do when they hung out!

These are all 100% true stories. Both of those reasons show that women ( esp East Coast liberals) dont know how to handle a masculine guy. It is out of place to them. Women from even 30 yrs ago would welcome a take charge traditional guy. Nowadays you just come off as a cavemen. An interesting point is that i did get physical with therese girls despite their protests about my behavior and opinions.
These women are still attracted to alpha but they feel like it is wrong to be attracted to it. It is this cognitive dissonance that modern women feel. They are told to not be submissive so they run away from dominate men. But they are still aroused by male dominance. Modern women date so many men that are weaker than they are that they find it odd when they encounter a dominate guy. A modern women can go her whole dating career only dating guys that are poorer and less intelligent than she is. This is because men have been marginalized economically and women are doing better than them for the first time in history. So many women actually are supporting the men. They even may have grown up in homes that had the mother as the breadwinner or at least the dominant one.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Yes, I think you need a lot of skill with the modern woman, just as you would with taming a wild horse. You need to be slow and gentle, and gain her trust.

The reality of your grounded masculine presence will over-ride all those hair-brained ideas floating in her head.

 

[Pandora]

Yes, I think you need a lot of skill with the modern woman, just as you would with taming a wild horse. You need to be slow and gentle, and gain her trust.

The reality of your grounded masculine presence will over-ride all those hair-brained ideas floating in her head.

This is very true bro. I am learning this the hard way. I am in my early thirties and i never remember it being like this in my late teens and my early twenties. Its getting worse every passing year. When i was younger girls loved super masculine, chauvinistic, obnoxious guys like me. Now it scares them away. But i just need to tone it down and to understand that the modern women is just confused. I need to be a little more empathetic. It is a lot like taming a wild horse.

 

[grayclif]

Reason for rejecting me:
Girl 1: My traditional views on gender roles was incompatible with hers. She was a feminist and believed that the sexual double standard is wrong. She also believed that their is no such thing as gender. It is all fluid.

Girl 2: She got angry at me for being decisive. She said that telling her the time and the place of our where we should meet was being too bossy. She said that i should give her options and not be so controlling. I explained to her that most women like a man to be decisive on the first date and that i didnt mean to offend her. She stated that her ex bfs all asked her what she wanted to do when they hung out!

I've never experienced anything like this. These attitudes are extreme.

 

[Pandora]

Both of those reasons were bullshyt and the result of low levels of attraction.

However, #1 has some wisdom to it bc it likely would become an issue down the line.

Your are right about girl #1 not being attracted enough to me. Her attraction level was low even tho we got physical. This is the confusing part about women these days. It used to be that if you got physical it meant that they were attracted to you. Now it means nothing because all that matters is relative attraction. She may be attracted enough to make out but not attracted enough to forgo her other options in men.

Girl number 2 i slept with the first night so it may or may not be a low attraction issue. Who knows. But dating has gotten so insane bruh that its almost like no rules apply anymore. Straight chaos lol.

 

[Pandora]

I've never experienced anything like this. These attitudes are extreme.

Do you live in a liberal state or a conservative one. Because on the east coast ( upper northeast) there are a lot of chicks that think like this. They are particularly vicious in liberal states.

 

[Masculinity]

You will seem odd to many women if you are a strong traditional masculine man. In Western society women are taught to compete with men. Not to respect them. So when a man comes along and is strong and traditional, it throws them for a loop. I recently dated two girls. I had sex with one and got physical with the other ( on the first date with both). One decided we would not work out and the 2nd one almost didnt want to see me again. These are the following reasons.

Reason for rejecting me:
Girl 1: My traditional views on gender roles was incompatible with hers. She was a feminist and believed that the sexual double standard is wrong. She also believed that their is no such thing as gender. It is all fluid.

Girl 2: She got angry at me for being decisive. She said that telling her the time and the place of our where we should meet was being too bossy. She said that i should give her options and not be so controlling. I explained to her that most women like a man to be decisive on the first date and that i didnt mean to offend her. She stated that her ex bfs all asked her what she wanted to do when they hung out!

These are all 100% true stories. Both of those reasons show that women ( esp East Coast liberals) dont know how to handle a masculine guy. It is out of place to them. Women from even 30 yrs ago would welcome a take charge traditional guy. Nowadays you just come off as a cavemen. An interesting point is that i did get physical with therese girls despite their protests about my behavior and opinions.
These women are still attracted to alpha but they feel like it is wrong to be attracted to it. It is this cognitive dissonance that modern women feel. They are told to not be submissive so they run away from dominate men. But they are still aroused by male dominance. Modern women date so many men that are weaker than they are that they find it odd when they encounter a dominate guy. A modern women can go her whole dating career only dating guys that are poorer and less intelligent than she is. This is because men have been marginalized economically and women are doing better than them for the first time in history. So many women actually are supporting the men. They even may have grown up in homes that had the mother as the breadwinner or at least the dominant one.

It appears to me that your conservative opinions may be in the way here, based on the way you write. I am conservative in some ways, liberal in some ways, and neither in some ways, so let's not turn this situation into a binary argument. I agree with one of such girls in that you should give them options to meet/hangout. People have different lives and timing, you can't text Amanda saying "Meet me at 4pm at Red Lobster; don't be late." You can however, say "I know a good seafood restaurant at XYZ place. Let's check it out. I am free Thursday at 4pm or Friday at 6pm" THEN let her choose. You are already holding the frame here. Don't confuse dominant with leader or with being domineering. Being too "dominant" will convey insecurity and drive women away.

As for the other girl, sexuality is not fluid--that's a fact. Opinions are not facts. Hence, just cause she believes the world is red, doesn't mean it is. When confronted with opinions that do not have any support, I call women out. Some of them concede and some of them are stubborn, which is a sign to walk away in my opinion. I think you may be dealing with feminists here. However, a lot of women only chew and spit out what they hear in the mainstream media, but will actually become very submissive when you hold the frame and support your opinions with reliable and objective data.

 

[Pandora]

"You are already holding the frame here. Don't confuse dominant with leader or with being domineering. Being too "dominant" will convey insecurity and drive women away"

I can see that. I will keep that in mind bro.

 

[Masculinity]

I can see that. I will keep that in mind bro.

No problem. I am curious to hear what double standard Girl 1 was talking about when she mentioned the double standards though. What was it?

There are double standards against women--true. However, there are also double standards against men. When you get pushed into the corner of "women have it all worse and men have all these privileges," you need to be rational and bring out the privileges women have. For instance, women tend to have (1) men buy them drinks, (2) men pick them up from their place of residence, (3) people automatically believe all claims of "harassment" or "abuse" from men, (4) a higher likelihood of getting free passes or free things for being physically attractive, etc. On the other hand, men tend to have (1) a higher chance of being hired regardless of having children when applying for employment, (2) higher ability to handle hard physical stress, (3) better sense of direction and physical orientation skills, etc.

When it comes to downsides, men are also screwed compared to women. We have a higher tendency to be laughed at if sexually abused, we cannot speak about our feelings even though we do have them, we tend to commit suicide more often, we tend to work longer hours, we tend to die younger, we tend to lose our children to their mothers in separations, we tend to lose assets in divorce, we are immediately demonized if a woman makes a claim that he hit her, we are seen as predators, etc.

Women also have their downsides: some people just see them as sex artifacts, they are not taken as seriously as men, they are seen as less intelligent, they are talked down to at times, etc. Notice that the downsides of being a woman are not as harsh as those of being a man. Am I biased because I am male myself? Absolutely. There are things about being a woman that I will never understand, just like a woman would never understand some things about being a man, such as why we tend like to ejacvlate on a woman's face.

In sum, just realize the argument has both sides. Highlight the pros and cons to both sides.

 

[SgtSplacker]

Honestly I don't care how a woman views relationships between women and men. I just want her to pick one.

Some girls want to be equals, i'm fine with that.

Some girls want a man to take care of them, i'm good with that too.

My agenda is that she pick one, because girls love to dwell in the grey area between both. They want all the benefits and none of the responsibility.

If you are my equal you pay half of everything, prenup is in effect and we split all the chores.

If i'm supporting you and running the household then you do what I say, keep me happy. And enjoy your legal rights to half my/our shiiittt while you haven't worked in years.

I would honestly enjoy either one just the same.

 

[Alvafe]

my take here

girl 1 you are the one who should have dodge and not caring, feminist means low class and low quality, woman love say they are feminists, but still let they father/husband pay the credit card, the first girl I would just ignore,

teh girl 2 here you can use to improve, she said all her ex-BF asked where she wanted to go, I would ask her out then why they are ex now? you wanted to lead she didn't liked ok, be a little more open to other time, but you can also tell her, "well if you don't like just say no and I invite someone else", and don't bother to explain and say you are sorry, you should have said ok say a time then you are free, and work from there

 

[Juanto]

Last weekend I went out with a girl and right off the bat she was surprised that I had specifically set a date, time and place for us to meet. After the 1st date, and after she contacted me, I set up a second date (this time a dinner) for 5 days later and again I set the place, date and time. She replied that I was very assertive and even joked after agreeing saying "yes my captain". Now, i´m not sure if I am pushing the envelope too far, or if she is just a bit surprised with my behaviour as opposed to other guys behaviours. Any thoughts on this?

 

[hockeyfreak79]

Last weekend I went out with a girl and right off the bat she was surprised that I had specifically set a date, time and place for us to meet. After the 1st date, and after she contacted me, I set up a second date (this time a dinner) for 5 days later and again I set the place, date and time. She replied that I was very assertive and even joked after agreeing saying "yes my captain". Now, i´m not sure if I am pushing the envelope too far, or if she is just a bit surprised with my behaviour as opposed to other guys behaviours. Any thoughts on this?

You are the captain & she's your first mate.
It's your boat and she's happy to be invited!
All good signs. Avoid buying dinner until you get sum action man, don't be so easy. Make them earn it. OP's examples where just throwing out sh*t tests. Escalate with this girl & next thing you know she'll be saying "Yes Daddy". The assertiveness may be giving her tingles, she's just acknowledging to you that's she submissive.

 

[Once Bitten]

This side of women amazes me. 25 years ago I got slammed and shamed for not being Alpha, by feminist cvnts. Now this...wtf is going on?
I'm getting confused.

 

[Juanto]

You are the captain & she's your first mate.
It's your boat and she's happy to be invited!
All good signs. Avoid buying dinner until you get sum action man, don't be so easy. Make them earn it. OP's examples where just throwing out sh*t tests. Escalate with this girl & next thing you know she'll be saying "Yes Daddy". The assertiveness may be giving her tingles, she's just acknowledging to you that's she submissive.

Thanks for the feedback. I will definately escalate next date, otherwise I am losing my time.

 

[Juanto]

Not to be to cynical, but at that stage in dating EVERYTHING you do is 'the greatest thing ever(TM)"... especially if they think you might take pride in it.

Meaning what she said til now its pretty much meaningless?

 

[Juanto]

Let's put it this way:

Even if it's factually true(we all know women don't like choosing where to eat at least initially), the compromised intent behind the statement makes it meaningless.

It's like when a salesman calls you good looking or whatnot...it may or may not be true but they're saying it bc they know it's what you want to hear.

You may even find, when IL is low, the relationship progresses, or both, that she now detests all these things that supposedly attracted her to begin with.

Thanks PairPlus. As a side note, would also like to ask you this. The day after we had the 1st date, she texted me jokingly asking If I was traumatized after meeting her (I hadnt said anything after the date). I replied back also jokingly and not replying directly, and afterwards setup the next date for 5 days later.
Is she a sign of her just wanting validation from me and her ego stroke, or could be also insecurity?

 

[Pandora]

No problem. I am curious to hear what double standard Girl 1 was talking about when she mentioned the double standards though. What was it?
.

It was the sexual double standard. I told her how many guys a girl had sex with does matter. She said that it didnt.

 

[Masculinity]

It was the sexual double standard. I told her how many guys a girl had sex with does matter. She said that it didnt.

Classic response from an overly liberal woman.

 

[CMNILS87]

Classic response from an overly liberal woman.

I can't even begin to tell you how many women on first dates say **** like..."I'm just living it up right now and having fun (drunk hookups), I'll stop doing that when I find a good guy".

I'm like, "bltch, you don't deserve anything from a good guy". Have fun in your 30's *****s