FRAME

[guru1000]

What does owning a frame mean?

One day you come to me to teach you how to effectively seduce women. In the first few moments of our interaction, I show you last year's filed federal tax return, which shows an adjusted gross income of 10 million. I tell you that I earned this 10 million by seducing women. "Wow, you think. This guy is incredible."

From that moment, I own the frame between you and me. Everything I say in matters of seduction, you will listen to. Everything I ask you to do in matters of seduction, you will do without hesitation. My value to you is at its ceiling.

Now let’s say at a later time, you discover that my tax return was fraudulent, and that I am a complete fraud. At that moment, I have lost the frame between you and me. Whatever I do or say after that moment would be irrelevant, as you would no longer give me or my advice any value. My value to you is now zero.

Owning the frame is simply evidencing your unequivocal higher value in the subject’s mind.

When you own the frame, you could act like an alpha, and the girl will value you.
When you own the frame, you could act like a beta, and the girl will value you.

When you own the frame, you could call everyday, and she will value you.
When you own the frame, you could never call, and she will value you.

When you own the frame, you could be an azzhole, and she will value you.
When you own the frame, you could be a nice guy, and she will value you.

When you own the frame, you could call one minute after the first date, and she will value you.
When you own the frame, you could call one week after the first date, and she will value you.

When you own the frame, you could seduce hard on the first date, and she will value you.
When you own the frame, you could avoid seduction, and she will value you.

When you don’t own the frame, you could have textbook “game,” and she will not value you.

Heed the frame that you are establishing. Frame is everything.

 

[Skyline]

So how would you go about establishing this type of frame?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Guru, you state:

Owning the frame is simply evidencing your unequivocal higher value in the subject’s mind.

How would one evidence higher value: Social proof, wealth, looks?

How does one establish frame other than the overt SMV items above?

 

[fastlife]

Guru, you state:


How would one evidence higher value: Social proof, wealth, looks?

How does one establish frame other than the overt SMV items above?

The thing with women, is you don't have to 'evidence' anything. Basically just decide what your reality is, live that reality, and ignore any of her attempts to alter it. Guys need logical proof; women just need feeling. Now measurable factors--like wealth, looks, etc.--can create feelings, but the moment you lose your sense of reality, those things go out the window.

Furthermore, you can create those same feelings without any of those factors. You can project whatever reality you want with women and you don't have to prove anything--just be it (of course it helps to be those things when you have measurable factors to reinforce that reality, but that's just self-limitation).

You can pretty much decide a girl's madly in love with you and act from that decision and she'll fall into that. Try it sometime lol. No matter what she does or says just keep using those things--arbitrarily even--to reinforce that reality. And she will fall into that frame according to your ability to eliminate/reframe any counter-evidence.

 

[SgtSplacker]

I establish frame by showing a woman she will never find another guy like me. Those first couple dates are critical to show her you're value. Have fun, have resources, show her the best time. Then make yourself a little scarce and get her to understand she wants you. From then on you just have to hold frame by not messing up.

Always be about you first, never put your interests aside. Bring her into your world, not the other way around

 

[guru1000]

Frame is your box. The girl must be able to fit into your box.

If you were a 7 and she were a 9, she will not be able to fit into your box unless you show her that other 9s have fit into your box or that your box can service the needs of 9s.

Example 1:
You are conversing about past relationships (which I always do to establish frame):

Frame Compromised:
Girl (SMV 9): So what happened between you and your ex?

Guy (SMV 7): Well she was average looking. I tried to make it work but she stated she need space.

Here, the guy opened discloses his ex was about a 5, and this ex was not willing to fit into his box. How, then, could she, a 9, fit into his box?

Frame Established:
Girl (SMV 9): So what happened between you and your ex?

Guy (SMV 7): Just the average beautiful girl. She used to model at Fords. Nothing impressive. She brought nothing to the table that kept my interest long term. She was very traditional and possessed strong familial values which are important to me, and for this reason, I stayed in the relation for one year. But, overall, she just didn’t meet my standards. So I ended it.

Here, the guys openly discloses his ex is a 9, comparable to her, and this ex was eager to fit into his box, but the box was just too big for her.

Note: You may push insecure women away when your box is too big for them. Good.

Example 2:
You are dating the girl for several months. While on the phone, you and she get into a heated discussion and she hangs up on you.

Frame Compromised:
You call her right back or the next day. Such an action shows her that her value is greater than yours, as you feel the “need” to call her despite her disrespectful act of hanging up on you. If you were of greater value who should be calling whom back?

I use the words “evidence” and “unequivocal,” because when you establish frame you must leave 0% room for doubt. Your frame and boundaries must be unequivocal and non-negotiable. She either clearly fits into your box or she is clearly out. Every action, behavior, mannerism, and word must evidence that you are of unequivocal higher value.

 

[Skyline]

Frame is your box. The girl must be able to fit into your box.

If you were a 7 and she were a 9, she will not be able to fit into your box unless you show her that other 9s have fit into your box or that your box can service the needs of 9s.

Example 1:
You are conversing about past relationships (which I always do to establish frame):

Frame Compromised:
Girl (SMV 9): So what happened between you and your ex?

Guy (SMV 7): Well she was average looking. I tried to make it work but she stated she need space.

Here, the guy opened discloses his ex was about a 5, and this ex was not willing to fit into his box. How, then, could she, a 9, fit into his box?

Frame Established:
Girl (SMV 9): So what happened between you and your ex?

Guy (SMV 7): Just the average beautiful girl. She used to model at Fords. Nothing impressive. She brought nothing to the table that kept my interest long term. She was very traditional and possessed strong familial values which are important to me, and for this reason, I stayed in the relation for one year. But, overall, she just didn’t meet my standards. So I ended it.

Here, the guys openly discloses his ex is a 9, comparable to her, and this ex was eager to fit into his box, but the box was just too big for her.

Note: You may push insecure women away when your box is too big for them. Good.

Example 2:
You are dating the girl for several months. While on the phone, you and she get into a heated discussion and she hangs up on you.

Frame Compromised:
You call her right back or the next day. Such an action shows her that her value is greater than yours, as you feel the “need” to call her despite her disrespectful act of hanging up on you. If you were of greater value who should be calling whom back?

I use the words “evidence” and “unequivocal,” because when you establish frame you must leave 0% room for doubt. Your frame and boundaries must be unequivocal and non-negotiable. She either clearly fits into your box or she is clearly out. Every action, behavior, mannerism, and word must evidence that you are of unequivocal higher value.

Sounds very similar as to what I do actually. Glad I'm on the right track.

 

[CMNILS87]

So with past relations is it better to play the "it didn't work out" or give her the whole "she just couldn't make me happy or she couldn't do anything for me"?

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

Why even talk about them?
I think of frame as your core values and how much you are willing to compromise them.
I think self-respect should be the core of every man's frame. It varies how you react to disrespect of course.
"why is your house such a piece of crap? "
" because I blew all my money on drunken bimbo's"
Or
"you don't like it, **** off"
Or
"slap" (not recommended).
Or
Going to the front door and opening it, waiting for her to leave.
Or translated "don't take **** from no-one."

 

[SgtSplacker]

So with past relations is it better to play the "it didn't work out" or give her the whole "she just couldn't make me happy or she couldn't do anything for me"?

When a girl asks me about my ex I always give her the most typical "it just didn't work out" kinda lines, letting her know i'm not really into putting my relationship out there for judgment like that. Best believe this question is a test to find out how you will talk about her if you guys end up breaking up yourselves.

Maybe i'll use the opportunity to demonstrate my boundaries and to let her know I will dump her if she crosses the line. By alluding to the fact i ended it because i was unhappy. Sometimes i'll use the opportunity to demonstrate what i'm not willing to deal with and see if she agrees with me or not.

A woman is always on the side of women, so whatever you say can and will be used against you so you better word things rock solid. Misrepresent yourself and she will back your ex or at least suggest she does before changing the subject.

Demonstrate too much bitterness against your ex and she might regard you as a woman hater.

Really though I think it's best to evade these questions altogether before you have sex.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

How about "I had to kill her. She asked too many questions"
Or
"she didn't have the sexual stamina I need in a girlfriend"
Or
"What previous girlfriend.?You are my first. Honest (dirty grin). "
Or
" she's tied up in the cupboard. I will let her out when you are gone. "
Or
" why talk about them. I can show you the videos instead. "

 

[guru1000]

So with past relations is it better to play the "it didn't work out" or give her the whole "she just couldn't make me happy or she couldn't do anything for me"?

Ergo, this thread. Don't guard your words. Guard your value.

You can say/do anything as long as you don't lower your value to her/you.

I always talk about the past to apprise her what's in store should she opt to misalign.

My exes/plates were trained soldiers. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[resilient]

I'm just going to leave this here....for... respect reasons.

 

[Poon King]

Honestly.. I think the "frame" discussion has become too complex these days.

All "frame" really is at the end of the day is self-respect and self-esteem. You will never break "frame" if you do the following:

1. Never disrespect yourself to keep a woman or to keep her happy.
2. Never allow a woman to treat you worse than you would let anyone else treat you.

 

[guru1000]

Honestly.. I think the "frame" discussion has become too complex these days.

All "frame" really is at the end of the day is self-respect and self-esteem. You will never break "frame" if you do the following:

1. Never disrespect yourself to keep a woman or to keep her happy.
2. Never allow a woman to treat you worse than you would let anyone else treat you.

At first look it appears that way. BUT, one can keep perceived self-respect and -esteem, but still lose frame.

Example 1:

All is well with a girl. One day, you decide you want to commit a full-blown "Tenacity anger episode" on the girl. You keep (or may think that you are keeping) your self-respect and -esteem (by committing such an episode), but, in actuality, you are lowering your value--as why is she that important, that you need to get that worked up. Frame compromised.

Example 2:

Girl (HB 9) learns from a friend that you were dumped by your ex (5). She asks you directly. You openly disclose the truth, "Yes, my ex-gf left me. And?" You are neither compromising self-respect nor -esteem, as you are simply stating the truth with no regard, either way. However, the truth is value-lowering. Frame compromised.

Example 3:

Girl is an educated professional, and seeking a high-value partner. You are a heroine addict. She finds needles in your apartment. She inquires. You respond, "Yes, I am an addict. And what?!" Doesn't really matter what you say/could have said, the frame is compromised.

Setting frame = Demonstrating unequivocal higher value, permitting her deferment
Maintaining frame = Maintaining higher value
Compromising frame = Losing higher value

 

[Poon King]

At first look it appears that way. BUT, one can keep perceived self-respect and -esteem, but still lose frame.

Example 1:

All is well with a girl. One day, you decide you want to commit a full-blown "Tenacity anger episode" on the girl. You keep (or may think that you are keeping) your self-respect and -esteem (by committing such an episode), but, in actuality, you are lowering your value--as why is she that important, that you need to get that worked up. Frame compromised.

Example 2:

Girl (HB 9) learns from a friend that you were dumped by your ex (5). She asks you directly. You openly disclose the truth, "Yes, my ex-gf left me. And?" You are neither compromising self-respect nor -esteem, as you are simply stating the truth with no regard, either way. However, the truth is value-lowering. Frame compromised.

Example 3:

Girl is an educated professional, and seeking a high-value partner. You are a heroine addict. She finds needles in your apartment. She inquires. You respond, "Yes, I am an addict. And what?!" Doesn't really matter what you say/could have said, the frame is compromised.

Setting frame = Demonstrating unequivocal higher value, permitting her deferment
Maintaining frame = Maintaining higher value
Compromising frame = Losing higher value

I've always said that "alpha is a mindset".

You cannot lose "frame" if you are the real deal. If you're paranoid about how a woman will perceive your "frame" then you've already lost the game. The less f*cks you give the better. Then you spin plates so that no ONE woman's opinion carries too much weight.

This is why the goal of my posts is to train men how to THINK rather than how to act. When your mindset is right.. the behavior will be automatic.

 

[guru1000]

You cannot lose "frame" if you are the real deal.

...When your mindset is right.. the behavior will be automatic.

This.

Frame is deeper than women, and IMO is the most under-analyzed, underutilized, yet the strongest asset in a DJ's artillery. Only for silly women? I use "frame" in negotiating terms in all business dealings. For example, I'll open a solicitation with a new investor with, "Have you ever heard of me?" followed by my track record (Setting frame). Employee is insubordinate? Instant termination as an example to others (Maintaining frame). Company violates our implicit agreement ? Instant suit (Setting frame for future dealings). Regulatory problems? Appeal to a higher authority or sue the agency for future deterrence (Setting frame).

ALL will act in accordance with your perceived value. Frame is the superlative bullet in the DJ's gun.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

The thing with women, is you don't have to 'evidence' anything. Basically just decide what your reality is, live that reality, and ignore any of her attempts to alter it.

This is the absolute BEST definition of frame in this entire thread.

Frame is simply the meaning you put on an "event."

Whoever has the strongest FRAME will determine the MEANING of that "event."

(E.g.: You think you're chatting her up to get her number. SHE thinks she's getting a free drink. Who will have the strongest frame?)

Social proof is not needed, but it helps.

Authority is not needed, but it helps.

Demonstration of High Value is not needed, but it helps.

The strength of your frame is simply how strongly you hold to the "meaning" of any interaction, especially if the face of attempted contradiction.

With a strong enough frame, all you need is jeans and a ratty t-shirt and you can talk ANYBODY into bed.

All the other junk mentioned in this thread are just props, like carrying around Tarot cards and using them as an opener.

CHARLIE MANSON is an example of somebody with an incredibly strong frame.

Short smelly hippie that lived in a bus but he got girls to KILL FOR HIM.

Anybody that was around him was SUCKED right into his reality, due to the strength of his frame.

Jim Jones is another one. People LITERALLY followed him across the EARTH.

If you want to SEE a PERFECT EXAMPLE of somebody with a HUGELY strong frame, check out the movie, "Holy Hell" on Netflix.

Dude is still alive. Even AFTER he was proven to be a fraud, people still follow and worship him.

 

[guru1000]

Frame is simply the meaning you put on an "event."

Whoever has the strongest FRAME will determine the MEANING of that "event."

(E.g.: You think you're chatting her up to get her number. SHE thinks she's getting a free drink. Who will have the strongest frame?)

By this definition, would this not make the deranged man screaming of the apocalypse to come at month-end the "owner" of the frame between him and I? In such a context, he does not "own" the frame between us simply because I don't value him or his belief. He could be 100% obstinate in his belief or in his interaction with me, yet hold no frame.

He has to effectively sell me into his frame. My ability to be sold is commensurate with the value I believe I am likely to receive by acceding.

 

[CMNILS87]

I've always said that "alpha is a mindset".

You cannot lose "frame" if you are the real deal. If you're paranoid about how a woman will perceive your "frame" then you've already lost the game. The less f*cks you give the better. Then you spin plates so that no ONE woman's opinion carries too much weight.

This is why the goal of my posts is to train men how to THINK rather than how to act. When your mindset is right.. the behavior will be automatic.

Once you've internalized game and feel confident, could you give me examples off the top of your head with one of your plates that maybe you want to upgrade. Perhaps she's slipping in areas or she's a GF that's questioning your frame. I responded to these in certain ways, perhaps you guys to different things.

GF is late 15 minutes to date? Internalized reaction is?

No phones policy on date out of respect, she pulls it out to take pictures or check texts?
Gut reaction is to?

On a date, Waiter gets flirty and GF flirts back. What reaction or action do you play?

GF says that she doesn't feel enough love or commitment from you, says you're distant? Do you play the I'm super busy and will find time to have a proper date of AA her?