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Can you train your girlfriend?

Discussion in 'Don Juan Discussion' started by DJDamage, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. DJDamage

    DJDamage Master Don Juan

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    http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/136_dating_advice.html

    The Article from askmen, I think ment to be more of tounge in cheek, however some of the stuff he mentions are exectly what a Don Juan wants: To date a woman who will respect him and won't cause him much problems. If she doesn't like how he treats her then she can walk away.

    From the article:

    Now is that the right way to let a woman know that her behaviour is wrong? or is it best to ignore or NEXT her once she does it?! Or is it better to tolerate some behaviour but on certain things are definate no no?!
     
  2. Bonhomme

    Bonhomme Master Don Juan

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    Read "The One Minute Manager"

    The askemen article's right on the money. You have to establish the ground rules straight off. A good similar reference is The One Minute Manager: a good, crisp 1-hour read on managment philosophy that applies equally well to any relationships. That book says exactly the same thing, and my experiences with tenants, contractors, and women back that up.

    If you don't establish discipline straight off, it's like moving mountains to do so later. If you do, then you can cut someone a bit of slack, once you've gotten them in line and established a standard of expectations.
     
  3. PeeGee

    PeeGee Senior Don Juan

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    lol the wording is hilarious but I was just realising the value of operant conditioning the past week (about frigging time too).

    But don't rely on it. Remember psych profs/majors aren't girl magnets :D
     
  4. Kaine

    Kaine Senior Don Juan

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    Spanking aside, this is quality stuff for those considering more then a fling.

    I preach behavioural control, their emphasize on doing it 'right' the first time is spot on.

    I've seen guys in LTRs with women and by the time the magic has worned off and they start complaining about they're Hot Bunny's sh#itty behaviour, it's already the status quo. At that point in time, the guy has usually been p#ussyfied and her IL low, and any dramatic change in his behaviour to attempt any conditioning would possibly cause strong resistance and headaches.

    Recommended reading

    Kaine
     
  5. Desdinova

    Desdinova Moderator

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    Agreed 100% and it works.
     
  6. penkitten

    penkitten Master Don Juan

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    get freggin real.
    you post on here as if you can train a girl like a dog, but your dog prolly isnt trained yet.
     
  7. Francisco d'Anconia

    Francisco d'Anconia Master Don Juan

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    Women perpetually try to "train" men. How many times have we heard about women trying to change their men. So why is it so bad for a guy to be in the drivers seat? If a woman doesn't like being trained she can always chew through her leash and run away from home. :p
     
  8. penkitten

    penkitten Master Don Juan

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    no, teenage girls try to change guys. women grow up and realise that the man they are with shouldn't need any changing.
    you are suppose to like / love someone for all of their good points and all of their flaws.
    if you can not be with them with out changing them, why the heck be with them? whats the point?
     
  9. Sweetcheeks

    Sweetcheeks Don Juan

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    Training is for dogs

    I agree with penkitten, but not in the way you might think.

    I've got some good experience training girlfriends. It works, for a while, but at the same time, they will resent you for it on some deeper level. No one likes being manipulated.

    The issue I've wrestled with is, is the behavior I've created a result of her REALLY believing and wanting to do the right thing, or is she doing it just to please me?

    The answer, in all cases I've experienced, is the latter. All three of the girls I spent 1-2 years transforming into ideal girlfriends reverted to their original state after I broke up with them.

    It's next to impossible to change a person unless they WANT to be changed, and very difficult even then. If she is screwed up as a result of emotional trauman, bad parenting, or excess relationship baggage, then chances are you're courting damaged goods. MOVE ON.

    It is not your job to raise a girlfriend. Your job is to be a boyfriend.
     
  10. penkitten

    penkitten Master Don Juan

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    now see i agree with what you said.
     
  11. AverageFC

    AverageFC Master Don Juan

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    lmfao
     
  12. Kaine

    Kaine Senior Don Juan

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    That's a good point, the only difference is that woman can be far more subtle about it. I can understand why any woman reading this would be offended.

    For the purpose of male discussion we are taking the flowery bits out and turning it into a science. Yes people can be conditioned to behave in a certain, to ignore this would be ignorant.

    Parents do it

    Reward::
    "good work sweetie, you got an A? Here's a big hug from daddy, let's celebrate and go have a picnic with mom"

    Punishment::
    "that was a terrible thing you did to that girl, go to your room with no dessert"

    What's the difference? We call this bringing them up right.

    Same principles apply in relationships, people do it all the time, how ever they react instinctively. Lets look at a AFC style relationship where conditioning may be applied subconsciously::


    a) AFC exhibits unwanted behaviour (i.e. wants to hang with friends)
    b) Girl pouts, withholds sex
    c) AFC feels pain
    d) Rince and Repeat
    e) AFC learns not to go out with friends


    This discussion just alerts us to the fact so we can focus these principles more effectively. Whether you can use it effectively and for a positive purpose is up to the individual/couple.

    For instance, stopping the GF from smoking/swearing/flirting with other men.

    As whether this is lasting change, that depends. Yes it can be.

    Sweetcheeks said:
    Resent? Why did you verbalise it? Did you not reward her properly?

    If you do this right she will feel good to exhibit the desired behaviour.

    She cooks for you, she cleans for you, she sexs you because she feels good about it. You make her feel good about it.

    Ideally she is associating GOOD feelings with the desired behaviours. You can be an emotional or physical bully IF you choose to, and this will likely cause resentment and may not be a lasting change.


    Kaine
     
  13. OzyBoy

    OzyBoy Master Don Juan

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    What is the point of this thread? I love my girlfriend just the way she is. I have no intention on training her. Why would i like her so much in the first place? I think if you don't like someone there is no point trying to train them, just find someone else, it will probably save a lot of time, frustration and heartache.
     
  14. BLUEox117

    BLUEox117 Senior Don Juan

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    so you are saying that instead of telling someone we dont like their flaws, we pretend they arent there, is that your silly definition of love?
     
  15. Desdinova

    Desdinova Moderator

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    Perhaps "train" isn't the right word to use. Maybe "condition" would be the appropriate term. Women condition men all the time. "If you go get me a chocolate bar from the store, I'll give you something special in return." Women will dangle the carrot of sex over a man's head to get his own way. It's a control tactic, and it works.

    However, laying the ground rules out at the beginning of the relationship isn't really a bad thing. Letting her know what you won't put up with in the relationship will condition her to respect you. If you have a real life example of what you won't put up with, it will enforce it even more. If you let her know that you won't tolerate lying, cheating, or any type of control tactics, you'll have a much better chance of the relationship lasting. She'll respect you for putting your foot down about these issues because she'll know that a heavy price will be paid if she screws up.
     
  16. MacDiddy

    MacDiddy Master Don Juan

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    That advice will save a great deal of men uninmaginable pain and suffering!!!!!
     
  17. Bonhomme

    Bonhomme Master Don Juan

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    Setting the tone

    It's a matter of setting the tone straight off. That won't constitute "training" unless the gal's behavior leaves something to be desired at the onset. It's a matter of giving a person the choice of treating you properly or losing your attention.

    Not only does accepting bad behavior give a guy headaches, but very few women are attracted to men who are doormats, anyway.

    Actually, that cuts both ways. As penkitten noted, a woman is foolish to try to change a man, too, beyond pointing out some correctable bad manners.

    Usually if you and your partner have high enough mutual interest and have decent character, this whole thing shouldn't even be an issue, which may have been what OzyBoy was getting at.
     
  18. DJDamage

    DJDamage Master Don Juan

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    Sorry Penkitten but its not only teenage girls try to change guys. There is a tounge in cheek saying: Women go into a relationship to try and change a man, but he will stay the same. Men going into a relationship with a woman hoping she won't change but she does.

    When a woman is in a LTR with a guy she will always try and push the man to change something. Women are never satisfied if the situation she is in, if it does not change on a constant basis. How does she try to change the situation with her man? By nagging, by pouting, by witholding sex, by giving him the silence treatment, by stopping and doing all the things she used to to like cook or clean. In the end the man ends up caving and changes for the time been. However do you believe a woman will be satisfied that she just changed her man???? If you become honest with yourself you will see that many women actually use that to push the man even more which can lead to more arugments and more hostilities and in the end he becomes a doormat and she ends up leaving the relationship/marriage.

    This is the cycle of AFC's. You yourself admit that you like men who you can't walk all over because they have a backbone to stand up to you. If they inform you and are "subtle" about it, that certain behaviour will keep them around while certain behaviour will not, you are more likely to respect that and love them even more. If you don't then you can walk out of this relationship.

    Everyday men and women are trying to change something about their relationships and the author just layed on thick by using the term training and comparing that to a dog.

    I agree that you should accept everyone for their flaws but this is not the issue. The issue is the power struggle that exists between man and woman in today's modern relationships. It never used to be like this because in the past woman and man knew their roles before getting married. However roles have kept on changing and the belief of 50-50 equality in a relationship actually made things worse for both.

    There is no such thing as 50-50 its more like who is the dominant person in the relationship and who is the submissive. The closer the gap is between the two the less likely a man and a woman will live in a happy relationship.
     
  19. SageOFAllenAge

    SageOFAllenAge Senior Don Juan

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    A thread on setting the 'ground rules' deserves to be in the bible, its pivotal on making any commitment last.

    My prev relationship ended because of this, after that I realised how important the beginning of the relationship is for it to have a future.
     
  20. DJDamage

    DJDamage Master Don Juan

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    had to Bump this thread because there are too many guys out there right now that are whining how their girlfriend's are not treating them with respect.

    If you set the tone of the relationship early and not let your girl to push your boudaries and disrespect you, it will save you alot of headaches down the road.
     

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