I'm looking at stats collected over the past couple of months. Guys, I strongly suggest you ignore all the stupid rules like "keep it short of you might screw it up" or "wait 7 days before calling". I don't think the guys who made that up ever got laid. Most of the guys I talk to who I know for a fact are getting laid don't feel this way at all. I think some total WBAFC like Doc Love must have came up with that. Anyway, it's been field tested and it failed miserably. The flakiest chick I ever closed, I waited almost 3 weeks before calling (forgot I had her number), so it may not even be useful for ruling out nut jobs.


Empirical evidence in my case argues against both ideas. Usually, in person I go for it right then and there, so most of my evidence is based on numbers I collected from chicks online that live out of town thus requiring a little more planning.

Long conversations are good. Optimally, 2-3 long conversations should cause her to either ask YOU out or get a straightward response from her. They must be really good convos though. Keep it light and funny. Do not run out of material.

ALWAYS keep your phone on the day of the date because many women wil call to confirm no matter how hard you try to work around this. Just keep the phone on or she may flake on you and make other plans by the time you get off work. Forget the macho stuff, call her the night before so she knows you haven't flaked out and forgotten about her.

If you have many women going at once keep a clipboard of a spreadsheet printout, so you know when to call and do not forget. Write in the times for tracking purposes (so you can see what works, like I have been).

The woman not showing up is rarely a problem. The main problem is when making plans several days in advance if you don't call for fear of "screwing it up" she'll likely flake a few hours before the meet when you're still at work/school.

Originally posted by everywomanshero
I'm looking at stats collected over the past couple of months. Guys, I strongly suggest you ignore all the stupid rules like "keep it short of you might screw it up" or "wait 7 days before calling". I don't think the guys who made that up ever got laid. Most of the guys I talk to who I know for a fact are getting laid don't feel this way at all. I think some total WBAFC like Doc Love must have came up with that. Anyway, it's been field tested and it failed miserably. The flakiest chick I ever closed, I waited almost 3 weeks before calling (forgot I had her number), so it may not even be useful for ruling out nut jobs.


Empirical evidence in my case argues against both ideas. Usually, in person I go for it right then and there, so most of my evidence is based on numbers I collected from chicks online that live out of town thus requiring a little more planning.

Long conversations are good. Optimally, 2-3 long conversations should cause her to either ask YOU out or get a straightward response from her. They must be really good convos though. Keep it light and funny. Do not run out of material.

ALWAYS keep your phone on the day of the date because many women wil call to confirm no matter how hard you try to work around this. Just keep the phone on or she may flake on you and make other plans by the time you get off work. Forget the macho stuff, call her the night before so she knows you haven't flaked out and forgotten about her.

If you have many women going at once keep a clipboard of a spreadsheet printout, so you know when to call and do not forget. Write in the times for tracking purposes (so you can see what works, like I have been).

The woman not showing up is rarely a problem. The main problem is when making plans several days in advance if you don't call for fear of "screwing it up" she'll likely flake a few hours before the meet when you're still at work/school.

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first off you should plan 3-4 days in advance anyways - shows you have no life; keep it spontanious

If I schedule a date for the next day and the chick calls me up a few hours b4 hand , it usually means one thing - they're cancelling and I just let them leave a msg ...

IF they call the day of the date to verify the date is still on, I'll still let them leave a msg and call them back at my convenience and tell them we're still on for [time]

*should NOT plan 3-4 days in advance ....

Originally posted by TxCowboy
*should NOT plan 3-4 days in advance ....

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You favor even less in advance or more?

Personally it depends on the girl or the situation...If its something i actually want to do I'll set it up a 3 days or so in advance but have occasionally gone for the 'Hmm, wonder if she's feeling spontainious'...waiting 7 days is just obscene though...just leads to 'who the hell is that guy again?'

Hamno

Leavign a msg

I've lost a couple of potentiolally good dates to letting them leav a msg. When I answer, I don't give them a chance to cancel. I recently saw this in a link to Juggler's archive that someone posted here. I've been "accidently" doing that very thing for about a month and it seems to be working.

Fortunately, I was able tor recover one because I got the msg quickly. she dumped her other plans and persued me anyway. The other was a total hottie and she got pissed and left a few msgs thinking I had stood her up. By the time I got off work, I already had multiple pissed msgs. Not good. I'd suggest answering the phone and start plowing immediatly. If she leave a msg and you don't answer, you're likely toast unless everyone else she knows is busy (unlikely if she is hot).

Originally posted by Hamno
You favor even less in advance or more?

Personally it depends on the girl or the situation...If its something i actually want to do I'll set it up a 3 days or so in advance but have occasionally gone for the 'Hmm, wonder if she's feeling spontainious'...waiting 7 days is just obscene though...just leads to 'who the hell is that guy again?'

Hamno

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gives her less time to consider other options if you schedule to do something less in advance

Originally posted by everywomanshero

Guys, I strongly suggest you ignore all the stupid rules like "keep it short of you might screw it up" or "wait 7 days before calling".

Long conversations are good. Optimally, 2-3 long conversations should cause her to either ask YOU out or get a straightward response from her. They must be really good convos though. Keep it light and funny. Do not run out of material.

ALWAYS keep your phone on the day of the date because many women wil call to confirm no matter how hard you try to work around this.

The main problem is when making plans several days in advance if you don't call for fear of "screwing it up" she'll likely flake a few hours before the meet when you're still at work/school.

Click to expand...

I definitely agree - after 7 days she might forgot who you were...
But long convos are not necessarily great.
Of course if you are good on the phone, sure, then long convo is fine. But most guys either not very good on teh phone, or chicks are too busy while talking on the phone and it creates some obstacles. I personally avoid long convos, but if it happens it happens. "Do not run out of material" this is precisely it. If you are good at "material", sire do not avoid phone convos.

I do try to make planes in advance since no chick would accpt a date "tomorrow". They would try to slow down teh process anyway and make "tomorrow" impossible.
So I star talking about 3-4 days in advance. She kept sending emails with blah blah, and each time I simple recude them.
So the very last day we still exchange emails but very tiny ones.
Why to do that? To avoid a phone convo in the very last day when I might run out of material and sound bad on the phone.

If a girl left you several pissed msgs...you don't want deal with her. You didn't meet her yet and she already is pissed off??
Look at it as a test.
Besides, I don't meet that many sassy females who would call me right before a date. They rather want me to call them somtimes. before the date, just to make sure I am real.

Where is the proof of this "wait 7 days to call" ? Post that link before I believe you cause the rule out there that I know of is 2-3 days.

On the "make the call short" - that rule is gold. If you wanna be her girlfriend, go ahead and talk for half an hour to an hour - I used to do that. Where did it get me? "Well maybe we'll hang out" "I think I might be busy that night..." So I wasted 30-60 min of my own time blabbing and I get a no when I could've found out in 3-6 min and might even get a higher chance of a yes if it was shorter.

TXCowboy is right on the money when a girl calls anytime the night before or on the day of the date - she's going to cancel out on you - better she do it through voicemail than in person.

Just one example

Here's just one example of a guy claiming to wait a week before calling. I guess it was 5 days and not seven although if I were to care enough to do some digging I know there are posts with guys saying it's OK to wait even longer.
http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000063.html

If you're turning into a gf by having long convos, I cannot help but wonder what kind of conversations you're having? I make the ladies laugh and I always get them talking about something sexual on the second or third conversation plus jokes with sexual overtones on the first. When I've tried to get commitment too early, without using enough material on chat or tele I've encountered more resistance.

I'm fclosing on the first or second meeting more often times than not. Sometimes I have very short conversations such as just getting directions. Other times I have very long conversations. I do read material I find online to get ideas, and I traveled a lot when I had money which is a sure way to generate lots of experiences to ttranslate into material.

Prescription to end flakiness for me has been to spend am ample amount of preperation time on her, call her the night before we are supposed to meet, and keep my phone on and near me. I've not seen any evidence that chicks on the verge of flaking are any harder to get into bed, so I do not think it's wise to avoid them or just let them go.
Instead, I push forward and just keep going for it until she goes away or I get in.

Of course, if you want a LTR my strategy is total crap. I tend to have a lot of ONSs or short term relationships.
Usually, we just kind of stop calling each other after a while. On the other hand, if you want sex I can assure you some of the advice I've tested has been the mathmatical inverse of how I've obtained it.

Re: Just one example

Originally posted by everywomanshero

I make the ladies laugh and I always get them talking about something sexual on the second or third conversation plus jokes with sexual overtones on the first. When I've tried to get commitment too early, without using enough material on chat or tele I've encountered more resistance.

I'm fclosing on the first or second meeting more often times than not. Sometimes I have very short conversations such as just getting directions. Other times I have very long conversations. I do read material I find online to get ideas, and I traveled a lot when I had money which is a sure way to generate lots of experiences to ttranslate into material.

Prescription to end flakiness for me has been to spend am ample amount of preperation time on her, call her the night before we are supposed to meet, and keep my phone on and near me. I've not seen any evidence that chicks on the verge of flaking are any harder to get into bed, so I do not think it's wise to avoid them or just let them go.

Of course, if you want a LTR my strategy is total crap. I tend to have a lot of ONSs or short term relationships.

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everywomanshero,

You do not realize that what you are saying works only for you.
If you are really that good with women (I am sure you are) then it basically doen't matter if you have long convos or short convos.
If you ahve good material and make them laugh, it doesn't matter when you call.
The thing is guys who do not have material (like me) is just hoping not to screw it up on the phone by not talking to her at all, and maybe she'll find real me is attractive enough.
Not all guys can talk, tell stories and be funny. Thats a talent.

If it works for sex, why it would not work for LTR?
I don't know who can actually get any LTR these days with decent looking women. They all either sl*ts or snobby and doesn't care about men.
With technological progress we have, more women woudl have more money and that would render LTR nonexistent.
Women are become pure sluts "with no string attached". So you method should work really good with all of them.
Well... to make her laugh and tell cool stories actually work with any kinds of women

The other side of this equation

If you never have long convos how will you ever get any better at them? How will you ever notice when you're being ineffective. That's treating women like a precious resource and one of the most basic reasons women will flake on you in the first place.

ON LTRs:

When you come in like a fall of fire, you produce so much smoke it leaves no oxygen to burn. Basically, you set the stage so high that she jumps in the sack with you and is swept away. That is a really high bar to reach day in and day out. Essentially, because she has such high expectations you will ultimately fail to live up to them. I'm not say it never works. I've had many gfs/fbuddies this way just like many other guys will testify. What I am saying is getting a great ONS or two or three meets before a flake(I believe the technical term is fools mate) is very common, and yes it happens to me all the time. Especially this is likely to happen if you don't handle her friends properly. Giving too much, too soon is one of the basic things that can kill a LTR.