I've read some of the seduction literature, including this excellently written post "Kill your desperation" http://www.sosuave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000199.html

It seems the common view of the 'nice guy' is: desperate, non-confident, doormat and never makes the first move. There was a guy in a chatroom who was talking about this definition and a girl put it this way: "That sounds more like a confidence thing than being a nice guy" I'd have to agree with this. I myself over the years have been transitioning from 'nice guy' to nice guy. Even being good looking won't compensate for desperation.

In fact, two years ago there was one week in particular where I felt so content with my life that I felt no desperation to have complete strangers chat with me. Guess what, I started having a few ppl chat with me. Nobody would before then. If I'd kept this up long enough, I prolly woulda had women approaching me for chat too

On the subject of 'nice guy', if you look at the Intellectual *****s site QUIZ (are you an IW), quite frankly it should be renamed to "Are you a desperate doormat quiz"
http://www.intellectual*****s.com/ladderquiz.php

Good points, think there really are two types of nice guys. One type is desparate and the other isn't. The desparate nice guy does all he can to get a girl by doing things that shouldn't be done until later in a relationship, in other words, gives her the impression he can't live without her right from the getgo.

The other type is nice, but doesn't rush things, likes a girl and takes his time, and doesn't barrage her with uncessary worshipping. He has the confidence to do this.

In both instances, you'll often find the nice guy is the more intelligent than average guy. It could be because nice guys think on deeper and multiple levels and therefore have likely experienced more depression in their life. People that experience depression are often very thoughtful and considerate of other people's feelings. A good example would be Abraham Lincoln.

the word *'ed out is w h o r e s

Good site