PUA vs Naturals

Would someone who is skillfull in communication and knows how to approach (PUA) be better than someone who has never gotten help from anybody but has been influenced by his friend who is way too smooth with women (meaning he is good at approaching and others) and has dated many women? A PUA understands and knows they he is doing, but a Natural does not know what he did but has skills. Who would be better?

Would Naturals be better since they have no interest or little interest in internet, computers, and the world of technology? Or would it be the PUAs who knows what they did and who have alot of knowledge about women and have some interest in things that Naturals would not?

Would becoming a PUA, DJ, or a Natural require more than just lots of knowledge and action?

Please discuss.

very good question. I would imagine that a well-trained DJ is better off. I emphasize WELL-TRAINED. Its just like if you have the genetics to be a great bodybuilder, but you never lift, vs. a determined guy that practices. The naturals have more potential and have a quicker, easier time to learn, yet they must choose to practice. Hard work pays off.

As generalizations go...

A Natural has been doing what he's been doing for YEARS. Since puberty. And he's been getting constant feedback on his successes and failures from women. They have internalized everything and tend to be naturally congruent with what they do. Hang out with them long enough and you'll realize that they pull the same stuff over and over on different girls (ie routines) without even realizing it. It's just that over years of practice, they've recognized what works and what doesn't. They have good bodylanguage, are usually above average looks, are used to competing with other guys, aren't obsessed with chasing the perfect10 (just a piece of tail for that night) and are very good at subcommunicating coolness and desireability. And when the time is right, sexuality. Each Natural is a little different, but overall, they do more things right unconsciously than they do wrong. They always leave a lasting impression on you even if you didn't like him.

A PUA on the otherhand is a diametric study of warring opposites. On one hand, you have the potential of becoming not only as good as a Natural, but BETTER because you KNOW what to do and why. This however rarely manifests itself because the PUA/DJ community is also deeply rooted in WBAFC culture. There's a reason why seduction material so readily took to the internet and Ross Jeffries was able to start mass marketing to his niche groups of socially incompetent fellows. I don't think it was until DYD and the subsequent PUA gurus who started using NATURALIZED attraction material that PUA-dom really became a reality. But a reality for only a few, in my honest opinion. Naturals having been doing this since they hit PUBERTY. Most wannabe PUAs don't have the experience of socializing, have a lot of inner game issues, aren't aggressive, and haven't been the game long enough or started late. How the heck can you catch up unless you're SERIOUSLY dedicated?

So the POTENTIAL is there. I have SEEN Mystery and TylerDurden pull off some MASTERFUL sh it. But very few wannabe PUAs (and that's all a DJ is) will ever attain that level of skill or dedication. A PUA who hasn't been in the game since puberty has years of practice and social conditioning to make up.

I agree fully with JT...

Expressed mathematically

good inner game + confidence = natural
+ understanding of social dynamics = PUA
+ ability to connect and realate to women = PUG

* PUG = pickup guru

natural < PUA < PUG

A natural goes with his instincts, is successful with women, but has no time or need for strategies, canned openers, or lines. A natural is a man.

Put simply, a natural is natural, while a PUA is artificial.

The results is all that matters. Whether a PUA or a Natural gets the girls he wants is what really matters. JT makes some great points too. I have met naturals and PUAs with super-high skillset levels. However, I prefer to hangout with PUAs as they can articulate the pickup arts and I love talking about it.

O_O, pap replies!

Originally posted by Pap
The results is all that matters. Whether a PUA or a Natural gets the girls he wants is what really matters. JT makes some great points too. I have met naturals and PUAs with super-high skillset levels. However, I prefer to hangout with PUAs as they can articulate the pickup arts and I love talking about it.

Click to expand...

It's too bad that there are so few guys that really know what they are talking about.

naturals

How do you define a natural. I ask this because most of the guys that you see in a club are naturals. It is the Players who get the women though. The naturals get the left overs.

So if your comparing ordinary dudes to pua's then your not using a fair measurment.

I would put a player up agains't a pua anyday. Players do what players do. They play lots of women. They dress better and dance better. They have better bodies cause they know that is part of their marketing. They have strong communication skills cause they know that is what it takes to get up in womens heads.

They have their game down and are successful at it cause they of course are players.

PUA's are from the nerd crowd. No offense. But nerdy guys learning a bunch of scripted routines are not gonna beat out masculine players who know how to play women.

Also the majority of guys who end up in the pua world start out as creepy. And that creepy energy is hard to erase. If you know anything about women you know how they can feel a mans nature and confidence level which is another thing many pua's are sorely lacking in.

While a pua is psyching himself up to approach and doing a state thing just to get in state a player has already moved in and taken the girl to the floor. I am not again talking about ordinary dudes, but players.

Guys who have lots of women.

Guys who get lots of women.

Many of my friends are very successful with women and are naturals. I've learned a lot more from them than I had with Mystery, David D, etc. The one thing that many practitioners make the mistake of doing with this whole seduction thing is that their gameplans, their structure to their methods are way too textbook and are not very flexible. It's hard to explain but naturals have a much better feel for what to say at the appropriate time. Like someone said before naturals don't have canned openers, negs, etc. That's just them.

I think knowledge is always very helpful. Whether it is in the form of routines or social dynamics. But you can't afford to be artificial, at least not for long. So with tremendous practice you should kind of merge your PUA self with your natural self. That is what i would call self improvement. And such self improvement is always worth working for, regardless of whether you are an AFC or a DJ or a natural.

In short I would like to be myself and follow my animal instincts by being natural BUT have skills and knowledge of a PUA.. so I can face bigger and better social situations.

War Against Betaism said:

Many of my friends are very successful with women and are naturals. I've learned a lot more from them than I had with Mystery, David D, etc. The one thing that many practitioners make the mistake of doing with this whole seduction thing is that their gameplans, their structure to their methods are way too textbook and are not very flexible. It's hard to explain but naturals have a much better feel for what to say at the appropriate time. Like someone said before naturals don't have canned openers, negs, etc. That's just them.

Click to expand...

I totally agree.
viewing pick-up as a scientific logical thing is a very BAD idea. IF it was a logical sequence of steps, then anyone could write a pick-up on a piece of paper and perform it successfully in real world. But it doesn't work that way.
Strong inner-game and natural game or instinct should always be the underlying foundation beneath a classy artistic outer game.

Naturals are inherently superior.

Naturals for me! Inner game > outer game.

Naturals are better at attracting women while PUA's are better at seducing women. The attraction is also better for long term relationships.

Anybody can become a natural though. Just improve your inner game/ improve yourself.

externally, there's overlap

When a PUA runs his A game, he's basically emulating a natural (someone who's congruent with his behaviors and gets results). IE All the RSD technqiues were mapped out by modeling naturals. On top of that, the community has been making a transition to natural game for awhile (where you internalize PUA behaviors to the point you don't have to think about it or run canned material).

the difference between a PUA and a natural is all internal. Both get the same results, but only the PUA can articulate, in terms of social psychology, why what he's doing works. It's a higher level of social intelligence that's independent of results

To me there is no such thing as a "natural". They recognize patterns too. Some guys also get assistance on how to dress & such from their sisters or whatever and this gets them more experience thus recognizing more patterns of behavior.

I guess a "non-natural" PUA is someone who started off poorly and learned to recognized patterns with the help of the "community". I find these guys to actually be pretty sparse in number even though I've met dozens of "community" guys. IOWs, I have not seen that many guys become successful, most of them have continued to stumble showing only mild improvement. OTOH, the guys who I've hung out with that were good from the start have continued to have success. Spouting out a handful of line and being anal about how one is holding his body isn't going to make women jump out of the bushes and beg for sex... I think too many guys don't focus on fundementals.

Exactly.

Anyways, I think among your social genes there are PUA genes....that allow you to learn how to grasp the patterns or just naturally understand the patterns of the game.

and i definitely don't have those genes. fück.

The PUA gurus always seem to start with, “I could never get a date until I learned these secrets…” A natural doesn’t know how not to do well with women. That is a world of difference in perception and it is more than just attraction.

A natural has an instinct that allows him to feel what the woman is feeling and to infuse her with what he is feeling. It is on a most basic animalistic level – look into her eyes, or just get close enough to feel her vibe, and you know if she will be your lover or not.

A natural doesn’t game or conquer women; he finds women who will cooperate with him, play with him.

I used to sometimes play this game were I’d go into a strip club, one with four to eight girls working and in short order, speaking barely a word, have half if not all the dancers and female staff flirting with me and vying for my attention. It all comes from having this instinct of tapping into each woman’s emotions in a fun cooperative way.

Every one of my confidants, my partners in crime, has been women. It seems as if every woman who I’ve connected well with guards my secrets and publicly defends me against my critics. I’ve never been able to establish that level of trust or loyalty with a man.

Being able to connect with a woman on a basic animalistic level requires you to attract her on a basic animalistic level. That is, use your body, your movements, your hair, your eyes, your smile… to attract women. Women often comment that I seem to always know what to say. That is because I just say what I feel.

I know what is happening and psychiatry is ill equipped to understand it. It is in chemicals that bounce around your brain. It is in scents that you emit. It is what is what would happen if we were animals in the wild.

As to PUA vs natural, I think that the typical PUA and the wannabes are at a distinct disadvantage and will forever be. Perhaps AFC’s would be better off studying Zen Buddhism, discovering intuitive understanding, and learning to be one with one’s surroundings than learning PUA techniques. It seems to me that many people suffer from being too removed from nature and nothing is more natural than the interaction between a man and a woman.

id much prefer to be a NATURAL THAN A FUCIN LOOSER ASS ROBOTIC WOMEN CHASER ya dig? Naturals are calm and know how to handle situations... and women just come to them... but a pua was once a looser now a player.. both basically a samethin so THIS SHOUDNT BE A FUCIN 2 DIFFERNT THING