He everyone and happy 4th of july, I am new to these boards and have some questions to ask, My main question is about patterns, I read some stuff about them on ASF and want to know if they really work and if any of you guys have tried them??

By patterns, I take it you mean NLP patterns, like the Speed Seduction techniques taught by Ross Jeffries, right?

I've studied NLP for about 5 years now (long before I visited this site) and it can be VERY persuasive, but I think the idea of seducing a woman with a few innuendos is pure theoretical fantasy. Plus, a lot of women will see right through it unless you make it very subtle (far more subtle than Jeffries). A lot of these patterns sound so contrived anyway, they'll probably drive more women away than they'll will win over.

NLP/SS/Patterns are next to useless in an active pickup environment. While probably not entirely useless in the general sense, trying to incorporate them into your game at clubs, bars, and parties is going to be highly difficult as the SS mentality is very anti-field testing.

Learn what REAL NATURALS do. And SS ain't it. I think too many people try to look at SS (and similar methods) as sort of a magic trick or cure-all. You memorize some patterns and VOILA! She jumps your bones. This is crap.

Other methods, the ones that really work in my opinion, simply model (or take a different spin on) what REAL PLAYERS do. From C&F, to super sexual state, to story telling, etc. also have a HEAVY EMPHASIS on FIELD EXPERIENCE. These methods require constant practice and field testing and the total obliteration of your social phobias (like approaching) by immersing yourself in those environments.

Here's a post by David DeAngelo on NLP:

For those of you that don't know, "NLP" stands for "Neuro Linguistic Programming". And there's a lot of buzz about how this can help you in all areas of life, from psychological issues to earning money to meeting more women.

Yes, I have spent a lot of time learning about NLP, and I've tried a lot of NLP ideas when it comes to meeting women.

The simplest answer I can give you is this:

The best use of NLP is to find guys who are very successful with women and then use it to LEARN WHAT THOSE GUYS DO NATURALLY. The mistake I think that a lot of people make is taking the parts of NLP that relate to therapy, influence, and persuasion, and try to apply those models to women and dating.

Believe me, I've tried this stuff EXTENSIVELY, and I've come to the conclusion that there is a MUCH better way.

My success took off when I started watching what the really successful guys did when they were with women, then refining the ideas and looking for the common elements.

For instance, the "****y and funny" idea comes directly from a good friend of mine who is very good at attracting women. Once I learned that from him, I began to notice that almost ALL of the guys I know who attract a lot of women use it.

I don't think you have to reinvent the wheel. Just do what works... and if what you're doing is working, then keep it up.

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In my experience SpeedSeduction patterns only work when there's an emotional connection or rapport between people, but when you have that connection going, pretty much anything would work and you don't have to use "masterful" language to get what you're after.

Second, SSers think that you can create pretty much any emotional state you want by simply describing it. I disagree. When was the last time you got someone angry by describing to them what anger feels like? No, you simply give them the finger and boom, like magic they get angry.

To get any emotional state that you want, you have to get into that state first. You have to get angry first, if you want to get the other person angry. And it doesn't always work unless you've seen the person respond before and know what gets them to do things. Until then you rely on general things like giving the finger and what that leads to is a probability that the person may not get angry, but you take your chances anyway.

This is why you kiss, and smell and touch a girl a certain way to get her going, not by "describing" to her what horny feels like.

NLP is a bad opener, I would never use it as an approach strategy, but it can be useful to establish a connection in an existing relationship.

thank you guys, I have slowly began to Drift away from being an AFC, thank god to this web-site, I have slowly built up confidense twards meeting women!!

Happy Independence Day to all my brothers here in the States!!!

Patterns/NLP will mostly work only once you have the other aspects of your overall game in order. When you're game is tight, you can get away with almost anything; if you know NLP, patterns, and persuasive techniques, you can incorporate them and make them work like charm; but how many newbies really are there already?