I have always maintained my status as an LTR guy, firm in my assertion that a Don Juan in love is the same as a Don Juan out of love; he just applies himself to a different set of situations. I have even drafted a thread to this effect that I promise to post in the near future. For now though, two years of my life effectively lies on life support while I debate whether or not to pull the plug. I have issued my ultimatum.

Before I go any further, the three steps to an effective ultimatum are:

1) Define your terms.
2) Issue the Ultimatum and set a time limit.
3) Be resolute. Do not entertain argument. Let your silence force their decision.

I have been seeing a certain woman for two years now. I love her very deeply and there has been talk of marriage that I have even entertained for a while, but its a funny thing about marriage; the problems you have with your girlfriend loom all that more menacing when viewed through the lens of a possible wife. I’ve come to the conclusion that I could see myself getting married to her, but not on the present terms. It is worth noting that I have always had control of the relationship due to my initiative and my insouciance. There was no threat she could make that could stand against these two powerful weapons. I also make it a point not to fight border skirmishes (trivialities of a relationship) because they are usually pyrrhic victories (you win an argument but distance yourself from each other and lose valuable love-making time) and for all the big wars (the make-or-breaks of a relationship) I only need rely on one weapon in my arsenal, the A-bomb. (A in this case standing for Abandonment, or alternatively, Adios!).

I also want to emphasize that an ultimatum is NOT I repeat NOT to be used for any purpose other than the total elimination of a negative strain of behavior which, if left unchecked, will continue to corrode your relationship and your soul with it.

It is not to be used when outside of a committed relationship (it would lack the desired emotional ties it draws its power from). It is not to be used regularly as eventually your target becomes immune to its sting. (If you’re drafting ultimatums over the remote control or whether you go Thai or Italian, you will end up cold, alone, and without dessert.)

Lastly, it should be known that every time you venture to use it you risk the most serious form of rejection, or what I call “mutually assured destruction”. You must always want to win enough to make tearing out your heart and having it spit on a calculated risk. In short, it must always be a deal breaker.

There have always been a few things which bothered me about her, as there are bound to be in any relationship, but in light of our newly acquired gravitas as of late, her lack of initiative, her inability to separate herself from her family, and her inability to concretely define in what capacity she wanted me to inhabit her life (husband, boyfriend, baby daddy) have led me to calling a sit down which boils down to an ultimatum over dinner. I called off the wedding immediately, and the relationship as well. Her full attention and belief in the strength of my conviction thus established, the sit down was a means by which I was to air my grievances and diagnose the unhealthy aspects. I would also use it to decide whether we could possibly turn things around and in the event that we couldn't, I would use the occasion to steel my resolve for severing my ties with her. I figured better now than five years down the road. Better a peaceful walking away today than a bloody and traumatic divorce tomorrow if it were to come to that.

We met at Quizno's. (Call me cheap, but the food is more than palatable and there was a very real chance I might not have anything to do with this woman romantically again. I wasn't aching to waste money at Chez Bistro.) After what I thought was some pleasant small talk to set the congenial-yet-business-like tone and some rather articulate musings on our current state by yours truly, we got to the root of the issues. I told her that when we leave the table, I will know if we have a future or not. An hour or two and six inches of cold sub later I told her I had decided I could not continue in the relationship on her terms. I gave her mine. She declined. I left the ball in her court, but for the most part that was it. (Given custody issues that might arise later over our son, I thought it best to keep my bridges in tact until I need them later should the need arise.) We talked and a few things were said which should have been said a long time ago, but we maintained an overall friendly tone.

(Listen up guys, there is a side lesson here!) For all aspiring ******** and LTR DJs I want to mention something. Before she left we naturally spoke of the customary returning of the belongings and she asked me for the KY jelly. Now pay attention:

I told her that, "while I certainly might of had a use or two for it inside of her, I didn't have any immediate uses for it outside of her", and I acquiesced.

She replied she had no use for it with anyone else either, but she was "still hoping 'we' could use it from time to time."

STOP!

Lesson: The end of the relationship is not necessarily the end of sex with a girl. This is a very important distinction to make, especially if you're the one breaking up with her. Always explore the option when defining your post-break-up relationship.

That having been said there is indeed something wrong with this picture. She said 'we'. Lesson: A lot of girls, especially when you're the one breaking up with her, will try to parlay sex into a rekindling of the relationship. This serves two purposes in the feminine mind.

First, it takes "we're breaking up" and reclassifies it as "we're taking a break". Secondly, it reaffirms your attraction to her and nullifies any rejection. If this is the case and you say 'yes', you are in effect telling her not to pay any attention to anything you've said prior to that in the conversation.

I declined.

I subtly implied that I'd like to be alone for a while and she left. At this point, it hurts to stand by your convictions. I had put two solid years of my life into that relationship, and I wasn't getting either of them back. Yes, there is still the chance she'll assent to my terms and we can move forward, but that remains doubtful. This is the second time I've turned her away, though last time I didn’t give her the option of an ultimatum, and she's not the kind to take that lightly. She might just hate me for the rejection and tell me to go fvck off.

Tragedy

Whether you're the one giving the ultimatum or not it still hurts, and it entails a greater sense of rejection and loss if and when she says no. If I made one mistake it was putting the answer in her mouth. She asked me,” Does this mean its over?” and I said yes. She must be the one to make the choice and if you make it for her, she's likely just to be going along with it. It still hurts, but I've only now started to feel the pangs of the potential loss these several hours later. I was there until thirty minutes after she left just sitting there, feeling the wind dance across my face and through my hair so as to limit my feeling to the realm of touch.

(part 2)

I was resolute in my will, and I will remain so.

But it does get a bit more interesting...

When I was delivering my terms I noticed my woman seemed to be taking it rather well, almost dispassionately. Even though you are putting her through a trial by fire in full knowledge of the possibility of a break-up, you still want her to be bawling or begging. Delivering your terms to a stoic hurts. So to further strengthen my resolve and to abate any insecurities caused by her not unraveling to her core at my feet, I decided to feed my vanity a little bit. As I cleaned up the table, I struck up a conversation with one of the girls working the counter (who I later found out was a freshman at the local community college named Alicia.) She was a bit young and a 7, but I was rebounding and she was there. She commented on how long I had been sitting there alone, and I commented on her short shift earning her short shrift. (at once making fun of her job, her uniform, and her paycheck. A side note: I don't know why I'm more poetic when I'm depressed, but I am. Not that it mattered because she seemed to appreciate it.) I finished it off with a "that's gotta suck"...

Mental note here guys: There are a lot of you who have trouble initiating a conversation, or won't if a girl looks irritate. This is a mistake. Invite them to wail about their grievance, crack a joke or two at whatever is getting them down, and you're her savior. Viola, instant repiore.

..So we went on foiling like this and she mentioned how the drama going on behind her counter was 'Kafka-esque'. She immediately brought up 'Metamorphosis', I parried with 'the trial' and lunged with a remark about how dark she was. She countered with a Poe reference, and I finished her line. It was from 'the telltale heart". (All of these literary references are handy btw, and none of them over sophomore in High school reading level. I recommend adding them to your arsenal) Now pay attention to my masterstroke here guys:

CDB: " Ah, but Poe wasn't always dark you know."

HB7: " He wasn't?" (Cautious disbelief)

CDB: " Oh no! He was actually quite the romantic. He wrote a poem once to his beloved Eleanor...

"Her hair like blackened moss,
Doth drape across her chastened brow,
And arms like porcelain do cross,
My thirsty touch to disallow. "

(Pause)

But then her will submits to me,
I taste the fruit of her sweet release,
She's then contends to savor me,


.....A toasted sub with extra cheese."

HB7: "He didn't write that."

CDB: "Sorry, my mind drew a blank and it’s all I could come up with spur of the moment. Tell you what, I'll write one just for you and I'll call you and set up a time for a private recital..."

I always craft a bit of bad poetry ahead of time and keep it handy for occasions like these.

As I said before gentlemen, I had my doubts about my abilities and attractiveness after the ultimatum. After that exchange and another number I got afterwards, all I have to say is...

never again.

Anyway, score two for the DJs.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out with me and my lady. Meanwhile in keeping with rule #3 I'm moving on with my life without waiting for her to accept my terms. I honestly don't mind confiding to you though, that I hope she does.

Any one who thinks that makes me weak can come to Vegas and kiss my Bishop in a turtleneck.

-CyranoDeBergerac

Sometimes you need to set clear and defined boundaries on important issues and sometimes the failure of someone to acknowledge those boundaries is a dealbreaker.

The problem with the ultimatum is that it clearly and loudly announces and acknowledges straight up your weakness in the relationship. That is, only one person in a relationship truly holds the power: the one who cares less. The fact of the ultimatum is that by the time you get to it, it's because the other party (the one caring less) has already refused, probably numerous times and in numerous ways, to acknowledge your position and change their behavior.

Coupled with a large ego, uncompromising stubborness, and an uncharitable mind, she'll force the issue rather than cede any power to you. She'll do this because, in her mind, she's BANKING on the mere fact that you WON'T END IT at least not permanently and irrevocably. She'll walk away with the firm knowledge that you really do care and love more and sometimes that fact alone will be enough to keep her satiated, even if she were to never see you again. She may even call in the future to have you acknowledge in some slight way that you still care and that acknowledgement alone will be enough.

We men do this too. Sometimes it's enough to have an ex-gf call me and make overtures -- hell, I don't even need to see her if she does that because I know I've got her, I know I can have her, and sometimes that in itself is enough and I don't even need to see her after I've heard those words. I can go on with my other relationships with the knowledge that I can always regenerate that relationship because, well, she's told me so in so many words. What freedom!

And, when you don't end it (you call a week, month, year later) or you immediately respond when she calls you at those times, she'll be even more powerful and you less, and she knows it.

Yep, she's banking on your weakness (you've shown it already), your sentimentality, your investment in the relationship, and your common ties. Sure, I realize there is a certain strength in issuing an ultimatum and living by it with conviction and integrity. Integrity in this case is doing what you say you'll do: end it completely and irrevocably. If you continue to have sex and any relations (other than your ties) she has her cake and is eating it well. But, there is a larger weakness and that is that you've cared enough to even issue the ultimatum, and you've been in the weaker position for having had to issue it.

True strength -- I'm not saying this is something to aspire to or that it is where anyone wants to be in a loving, caring relationship -- but true strength is simply being the one who cares less and walks without even acknowledging or KNOWING that one is walking. Imagine a relationship where she cared more, and you less. Imagine that relationship where you are the one doing and saying (or not doing nor saying) the things SHE wants to hear not purposefully but because that is THE WAY THINGS ARE. That is strength in the relationship. It's strength that doesn't even know OR CARE that it has the strength. It's strength that can't be feigned or contrived or manufactured: it simply is what it is.

It's strength that allows her to walk away fully confident in herself and it's weakness that leads you to pondering and musing and ruminating and writing large posts on a seduction board and to spout poetry in a time of need to the countergirl. I do not mean this as in weakness of constitution or of mind, but, again in a different way: weakness in that relationship vis-a-vis the two of you: you care more, she less. Love or be loved: even if it be 51 - 49, one is the weaker.

Lastly, lest you think that I prefer or recommend completely not caring, being the weaker is not necessarily a bad position to be in. It's where the intense feelings of living lie, imho. It means you've been made to feel. When I bang my gaggle of women, I find no true joy in doing so. Ah, but give me a woman whom I fall in love with and who has my panties in a bunch -- I'll take that any day.

I've meandered long enough. Good luck CDB.

Didn't read the whole article, sorry dudes this is a message board not some ****ing rant ville.

Ultimatums are somewhat bad IMHO. For either guys and girls. For one thing it expresses your insecurities and ego at the same time. You want something DEFINITE and you bring it out in the open rather than being smooth about it.

You may think ultimatums make the person think that this is how you want it but in reality the other party will think you are a control freak.

You had problems with this girl on some issues, you should've brought it up and if she doesn't do anything to change it.. man 2 years, you would've nexted her long before reaching that point!

Cyrano,

Tough situation to be in bro. I respect the fact that you've issued the ultimatum; however, I have to agree with prosemont here.

The fact that you were at the point to have to issue such an ultimatum (twice!) indicates that you were gone in this LTR from the getgo.

You wrote:

I told her that, "while I certainly might of had a use or two for it inside of her, I didn't have any immediate uses for it outside of her", and I acquiesced.

Click to expand...

This is an AFC line, and exactly what she wanted to hear. You have no use for the KY outside of her. More poetic than the usual AFCs; however, AFC nonetheless.

A better response would have been: "sure I'll give you what's left of it. You know it's funny, last night I was watching CNN and Paula Zahn came on and I got so horney that I whipped out the KY and lubed myself up and had tons of fun...ahem, sorry for the digression honey, yes, I'll return the KY".

Had you been a player, constantly keeping her guessing, constantly concerned that you're plowing other chicks and consequently, making her worry that you'll fall for or impregnate another chick, she would have seen her 2 year "investment" as being in jeopardy, and she'd be the one issuing AFC ulimatums.

The good thing about having a kid with her (the only good thing really, unless you count the kid itself) is that you'll have to keep seeing this chick; and this is a good thing only if you want to win her back. Consequently, the situation is always winnable.

Step 1: Take the ultimatum right off the table in your own mind. It's over. Period.

Step 2: Get on a massive recruitment campaign and plow tons of new chicks.

Step 3: If she contacts you and wants to talk about the relationship, explain to her how wonderful things are now that you guys broke up and how you'll both make much better parents because the strain of being mismatched partners is gone.

She'll swoon at this, IMO.

Good luck.

Originally posted by prosemont


The problem with the ultimatum is that it clearly and loudly announces and acknowledges straight up your weakness in the relationship. That is, only one person in a relationship truly holds the power: the one who cares less. The fact of the ultimatum is that by the time you get to it, it's because the other party (the one caring less) has already refused, probably numerous times and in numerous ways, to acknowledge your position and change their behavior.

Click to expand...

This is absolute gold. By the time most of you guys get to giving your ultimatum, you have already lost, reason, as stated above.

If you get to the point that you have to give an ultimatum, I wouldnt bother. Just try to withdraw yourself from her and detatch yourself. This is the ONLY way you have ANY chance of getting her interest level back up.