I was reading this in a comment to the infamous article "All the Single Women" (I posted about it a while back.) It seems to make a bit of sense for some men, but not for all.

Define "faithful."

vatoloco said:

Define "faithful."

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Define "options" for that matter.
The question seems to assume you are in an exclusive relationship.
Would you trade your LTR in exchange for a roll in the hay with some hottie?

It's a lot easier to have sex with some girl than to keep her, and even then it's a small possibility that she would qualify personality wise for an LTR, or meet all your personal standards. It takes at least six months and more likely more to qualify a girl for an exclusive relationship.

The question seems to be more theoretical than practical.

zekko said:

Define "options" for that matter.

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Heh, heh. Hence the question! It's all subjective.

The question seems to assume you are in an exclusive relationship.
Would you trade your LTR in exchange for a roll in the hay with some hottie?

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I personally wouldn't do it. As much as I'd like to put my penis inside other hot women, my Life experience has taught me that "what goes around, comes around." I don't want other dude's penis inside my girl once I start being exclusive with her.

But that's just MY crazy thinking!

This question seems to be aimed at AFCs, and is actually a little insulting.
"Men are only as faithful as their options" is a PUA saying.
It's implying that if a guy could have sex with attractive women, he wouldn't be with his wife, or girlfriend, or whatever.

This is probably true for some guys, but any guy who doesn't have his head up his rear should be able to find some girl to have sex with him if that's what he wants. I know for a fact I could get laid with little effort, that's not even an issue. In fact, I've been sorely tempted a few times, but ultimately my girlfriend is more important to me.

So no, this is not true, at least not for everybody. Not for the guys who are in LTRs because they want to be in them. Maybe for the guys who "have to" be in them.

zekko said:

This question seems to be aimed at AFCs, and is actually a little insulting.
"Men are only as faithful as their options" is a PUA saying.
It's implying that if a guy could have sex with attractive women, he wouldn't be with his wife, or girlfriend, or whatever.

This is probably true for some guys, but any guy who doesn't have his head up his rear should be able to find some girl to have sex with him if that's what he wants. I know for a fact I could get laid with little effort, that's not even an issue. In fact, I've been sorely tempted a few times, but ultimately my girlfriend is more important to me.

So no, this is not true, at least not for everybody. Not for the guys who are in LTRs because they want to be in them. Maybe for the guys who "have to" be in them.

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you are wrong


i love how the men here chest thump like they are just that much better than women are in the sense that they are more loyal. the truth is, and i have said this time and time again, a person will always look after their best interest.

the second, the woman you are with, is not the very best long term interest you have, she can go. you can call her crazy, you can say she gained weight, she doesn't blow you anymore, whatever. this is what humans do.

the fallacy that you have is that you define better as hotter. every woman outside the house that is bettet rlooking might not be a better option.

i'll use myself as an example. here is my exact "dream woman" list i have saved on my excel sheet

is somewhat exotic long legs skinny / petite very pretty feet (yes i like feet, what you go do about it)
is smart but not a know it all loves horse racing has no kids has no ex husband has decent credit has a reasonable amount of debt likes to have sex has unique interest that consume her time has a decent relationship with at least one of her parents is not a feminist likes to do womenly things is not stuck up or a snood, is humbe likes to work out and is health concious

my wife is the first woman i have ever met, that hits every last one of those crititeria. she's tall with long legs and a british accent, very pretty feet lol, is a health nut just like i am, loves horse racing, is very much a woman and doesn't get caught up int he feminist BS, is crazy about both her parents, no baggage, etc.

I go to the gym and there is a girl int he gym, the girl behind the counter lol, that i know likes me and she is, an easily 9 to 9.5 on just about any scale out there. SMOKING hot. perfect ass. pefect body. she's 22 now, about to get her degree in may.. she's hotter than my wife and i dont' say that often,a nd honeslty it's not even that close and my wife is hot. but she isn't a better OPTION beucase she doesn't fit all the creteria. she doesn't like horse racing, she is very religious and doens't believe in gambling. i haven't seen her feet yet what if they are jacked up. i'd be pissed off. she has a fvckign chasity ring for crying out loud. so even if i got her to give it up once time I'm not playing let's make a deal just to have sex. and from what i understand she has a good amount of student detb to get her degree she is getting. I mean we chat it up when iam at the gym but nothing serious.

she's not a better option. my wife is the best option i know for me because she is exactly what i want. not only that we have a family and i very much cherish that, she's a very good mother.

for me to cheat, or to find a better option, I don't know what it would take. i am not saying that person does not exist. but if a sexier woman came along that hit every last piece of criteria and was head over heels for me, honestly i'd probably leave. but i seriously doubt that would happen.

the more my wife doe her thing, the less chance that is to happen. i like her for exactly who she is. so the more she is being her, the more she works out the more she is frugal with money, the more she does her thing, the more i am into her.

so yeah, if i had options that were better than my wife i probably would not be faithful. but i doubt there are very many options better than my wife for me. just a hot peice of ass, meh. my wife is hot.

Backbreaker said:

she's not a better option. my wife is the best option i know for me because she is exactly what i want. not only that we have a family and i very much cherish that, she's a very good mother.

for me to cheat, or to find a better option, I don't know what it would take. i am not saying that person does not exist. but if a sexier woman came along that hit every last piece of criteria and was head over heels for me, honestly i'd probably leave. but i seriously doubt that would happen.

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I still think the intent of the original statement is more what I said and aimed at AFCs. But you bring up an interesting point.

Like you, I find it hard to imagine a better option than my girlfriend. When I first met her, I was actually quite suspicious of her because she seemed too good to be true. She ticked all my boxes, as you say. I took a long time to qualify her.

Even if someone better did come along, it would take so long to find out exactly who she was (as opposed to what she represents herself as), how would I find the time to qualify her without immediately cheating on my girlfriend? It seems unlikely that I would make the time investment since you can't call it a sure thing after a few days, weeks, or even months.

I think it's overly cynical. There are plenty of men that COULD cheat, but choose not to.

Mike32ct said:

I think it's overly cynical. There are plenty of men that COULD cheat, but choose not to.

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Yeah, that is pretty clearly true.
The saying is an example of the bad/failed side of PUA theory. The side that puts everybody in the same box, paints everything in black and white, says all men are the same, all women are the same, etc. It allows for no individual differences.

That said, as Backbreaker alluded to, men are going to try to get the best deal in the dating market they can get. Just like hypergamous women. I do think that as long as a man is content, he is less likely to branch swing than a woman though. See how women are more likely to file for divorce.

It's only true for guys that are the type that are in a relationship...until something better comes along, in which case they're not really committed to their SO. Commitment is the defining characteristic of a relationship and those involved in it that separates cheaters from those who don't. So the next question is what is committent? IMO it's pretty much another word for loyalty.

IF you've spent any time in the dating world and DIDN'T settle.... you know how hard it would be to find better. Now IF you've become a millionaire since, you may have better options...but is it worth the effort it would take away from your business to find her?

Women are like electronics, as soon as you get one a better model comes along. :yes:

zekko said:

Yeah, that is pretty clearly true.
The saying is an example of the bad/failed side of PUA theory. The side that puts everybody in the same box, paints everything in black and white, says all men are the same, all women are the same, etc. It allows for no individual differences.

That said, as Backbreaker alluded to, men are going to try to get the best deal in the dating market they can get. Just like hypergamous women. I do think that as long as a man is content, he is less likely to branch swing than a woman though. See how women are more likely to file for divorce.

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i will agree with that. as long as my wife is doing what she is doing and is fufilling all my needs, I am pretty content where i am. i mean she isn't a car or antyhing lol.


but, this thought that men are all self rightous and that through thick and thin or better or worse, men will stay to the end, give me a break. if she stopped putting out or put on 30 pounds or started pulling me into debt, fvck marriage conulsing, im gone.

I think there are lots of guys that engage in extracurricular activities. They won't leave their wife, but they'll fvck their secretary on the DL. Some of them get caught, but some can keep it going.

JFK was apparently doing Marilyn Monroe, and it's just been revealed that he was having an affair with a 19 year old intern while he was president. But he maintained the outward image of a happy family man. We all know what happened to Clinton.

Tiger Woods had lots of mistresses while he was married to a pretty attractive Swedish babe. It eventually got out because he's a celebrity. But I'd imagine there are lots of successful guys who cheat around who don't get caught.

Lexington said:

I think there are lots of guys that engage in extracurricular activities. They won't leave their wife, but they'll fvck their secretary on the DL. Some of them get caught, but some can keep it going.

JFK was apparently doing Marilyn Monroe, and it's just been revealed that he was having an affair with a 19 year old intern while he was president. But he maintained the outward image of a happy family man. We all know what happened to Clinton.

Tiger Woods had lots of mistresses while he was married to a pretty attractive Swedish babe. It eventually got out because he's a celebrity. But I'd imagine there are lots of successful guys who cheat around who don't get caught.

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lexington you along wtih a select few are my fav posters here, beucase all your post are thought provoking and well thought out.

this post brings up a good point.





what exactly constitutes cheating?


what i mean is... is the 45 year old man with 2 kids and is working 60 hour weeks at a demanding job, really cheating on his wife by getting his knob polished by a woman at work?


I mean ****, the man works 60 hours a week, his wife works 40, she has 2 kids and been putting up with them all day,. when she gets home the last thing she is worried about is blowing her husband. on the other hand, that's probably the first thing on the 25 year old secretary's mind considering she wsan't really consider that cheating.

do you really consider FDR to be a cheater? no one does i meawhen you say FDR you dont' think cheater, you tnik great president but he cheated to the point that they ha seperate houses lol. they didn't even live to gether. his mistress was with him when he died. but **** if i married aq lesbo (i'm pretty damn sure elanor was a carpter muncher) who didn't like to put out i 'd probably "cheat" too.


espeically when you are dealing with "power women" who are too busy being powerful women to take care of their husbands.. the hus band has to do what he has to do i.e bill clinton. he had no intention of leaving his wife. but **** sometimes a man jsut wants to come home and get his knob sucked lol. and that's hard to do when you out saving the world.


sometimes, a blow job is just a blow job lol. I mean, i'm not saying i am going out getting care free blow jobs from women, my wife doesn't work, her entire job is to make sure i'm happy, blow jobs included lol. but im saying, i think the reafson we struggle with this, is beucase this is not natural. this is a very westernized christian conept that steems from the dark ages onward that some how sex is cheating.

I think for .... how can i put this. for actually cheating to take place, there has to be some semblance of emotional attachment involved. a man getting a BJ from his intern at work at 8pm at night beucase he's been at work all day long, i dont / cant consider that cheating. i just can't beucase i'm too pratical. his wife isn't going to do it. doesnt' mean he doesn't love his wife. just means the man wants a BJ.

now when you start crossing the, "i'm going to leave my wife for you" and taking girls out to romnatic dinners and **** like that, that's a whole nother story. but just, SEX for sex sake. it's a case by case scenerio but all blow jobs are created equal, but some blow jobs are more equal than others.

Let me be honest here:

I can't in good conscience say that getting a BJ is not cheating. It sounds like rationalization to say that it isn't. Would you consider some guy going down on your wife okay? Then you would also have to consider anything less than oral sex okay - french kissing, making out, etc, etc. No, something doesn't sound right here.

zekko said:

Let me be honest here:

I can't in good conscience say that getting a BJ is not cheating. It sounds like rationalization to say that it isn't. Would you consider some guy going down on your wife okay? Then you would also have to consider anything less than oral sex okay - french kissing, making out, etc, etc. No, something doesn't sound right here.

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It depends on the circumstance.


but men are not women. women do not have sex for the sake of having sex. men do that. women have sex to please, to earn, to gain, to make happy. men have sex to get (off).

a woman having sex is not the same as a man having sex. a run through any history book will show this to you as clear as day. men had concubines to get his rocks off. the few women rulers who did have lovers , it was because their man was not around or it was for political reasons (Mary the first is a good example, the different men she entrained were all for political reasons to help form alliances, lthough she never gave it up reportly which i think is BS)lit's a red herring argument.

zekko said:

Would you consider some guy going down on your wife okay?

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backbreaker said:

It depends on the circumstance.

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BB, you're one of my favorite posters on here but:

(Btw, I agree with everything you said after. Women will never understand that guys can have sex with zero emotions involved. They just aren't wired that way. The healthy ones anyway.)

Dear MDJ,
To answer your question,"Are men only as faithful as their options?"...certainly not......People are constrained by all sorts of factors....Religion,Family,Peer group....all sorts of Values System driven influences....Sodbuster mentions Financial factors...Sure,it all relates to what drives your inner self....However,the Great Creator gave Women svexual whiles to batter down these defences,for a while at least.

women do not have sex for the sake of having sex.

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That's way off. Every one night stand says diff.