I'd appreciate views on this. Out of the blue a girl I've been seeing demanded to see all of my phone messages and e-mails.

I won't go too much into the background of this but this girl has a boyfriend. In the early stages of seeing her I had hoped she might leave him but it's been dragging on for months so eventually I started dating other girls, casually. I told her I was dating other girls but nobody seriously, which was true. I didn't give her all the details though. I have written to a few of my friends talking about some of the other girls I've seen, what I think about the girl who demanded to see the messages (mostly good but some critical). Basically there's no way I could show this girl my messages, she would get very upset for sure. But I tend to be honest and critical about even those people I love, it doesn't mean I think less of them, I'm just analytical I guess (and am that way about myself too).

Anyway what I'm most interested in is, as a conceptual matter or a matter of principle if you like, I don't believe that even in a committed long term relationship a girl should have the right to see all of your private messages. I have had similar demands from girls before and the rationale has always been the same, i.e 'If you have nothing to hide then why won't you show me all your messages?'. It's like they're not happy just having access to most of your life, they want it ALL. Well I don't want to be living in some Big Brother type situation with my girlfriend acting as the damn thought police. However close I am to someone I believe strongly that I am entitled to privacy and there may be some things that I want to discuss with family, friends, etc that I don't want her to see. Also with my good friends our sense of humour is pretty out there so a lot of the stuff we say just because it's the way we communicate could be woefully misconstrued (most of it's not even meant seriously but I'm sure most women would take it that way).

Would really appreciate some views.

Miles28 said:

I'd appreciate views on this. Out of the blue a girl I've been seeing demanded to see all of my phone messages and e-mails.

I won't go too much into the background of this but this girl has a boyfriend.

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NO.

Let me rephrase this.

FVCK NO.

I don't care if she's single and her name is Megan Fox. FVCK NO.
And she has a BOYFRIEND.

Tell her to go check her boyfriend's phone. Your phone is off limits.

In the early stages of seeing her I had hoped she might leave him but it's been dragging on for months so eventually I started dating other girls, casually. I told her I was dating other girls but nobody seriously, which was true. I didn't give her all the details though. I have written to a few of my friends talking about some of the other girls I've seen, what I think about the girl who demanded to see the messages (mostly good but some critical). Basically there's no way I could show this girl my messages, she would get very upset for sure.

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That part in bold... WHO CARES? She has a boyfriend... you are dating other girls... why should you care if she gets upset or not? That's not your problem. First of all, it's not a matter of not showing them to her because "she'd get upset"... it's a matter of not showing them to her because again "FVCK NO". Right mindset, wrong REASON.

But I tend to be honest and critical about even those people I love, it doesn't mean I think less of them, I'm just analytical I guess (and am that way about myself too).

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You love her?

Anyway what I'm most interested in is, as a conceptual matter or a matter of principle if you like, I don't believe that even in a committed long term relationship a girl should have the right to see all of your private messages.

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Exactly. You said it yourself.

I have had similar demands from girls before and the rationale has always been the same, i.e 'If you have nothing to hide then why won't you show me all your messages?'.

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You tell them that it's a sign of disrespect to try to access every part of your life. Are you kidding me? She's basically saying OUTRIGHT that she doesn't trust you. And that BS line is just bait. Don't try to rationalize it... you just say "NO". Even if you don't have a single message in your inbox, you say NO. And you better have that keypad locked at ALL times.

It's like they're not happy just having access to most of your life, they want it ALL. Well I don't want to be living in some Big Brother type situation with my girlfriend acting as the damn thought police. However close I am to someone I believe strongly that I am entitled to privacy and there may be some things that I want to discuss with family, friends, etc that I don't want her to see. Also with my good friends our sense of humour is pretty out there so a lot of the stuff we say just because it's the way we communicate could be woefully misconstrued (most of it's not even meant seriously but I'm sure most women would take it that way).

Would really appreciate some views.

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You have the answer to your post right here, you typed it.

And it's been MONTHS with this girl??? Nah. She shouldn't even be within your shotgun range... keep seeing other girls. And if she gets upset... so what?

nope. Lost the best peice of ass I've had in the last two years because she went through my phone while I was sleeping and had the nerve to start an argument with me about it. I didn't even respond to her charges. THe only reply she got from me was "Why are you going through my phone?" That's all I would say like a goddamn parrot. She got pissed and left. About two weeks later she called apologizing, but the damage had been done and it was over. I never backed down one inch. Never entertained her questions, never bothered to consider her "point of view".

This woman has a boyfriend, even if she didn't she still doesn't have the right. Tell her to go jump in a lake.

Kailex your advice is always gold. Thank you man, seriously.

Warrior 74 many thanks indeed.

You guys are totally right. Sometimes I just need reaffirmation from other people (a character defect). I think what she asked was crazy and totally out of line. Looking back on it I should have been much more forthright about it. It amazes me how many women think they have a right to do this kind of stuff. Trust and respect for privacy are two massively important elements for me.

I don't know why I seem to run across this type of woman again and again, or maybe most women are like this. But I'm taking a hardline stance on this as I believe, as you guys have said, that there is no reason why this or any other woman should access these private messages. As I told her it's not just stuff about her or other girls, I have stuff I've told my best friends and parents that is really personal and not stuff I want her reading. Anyway that's irrelevant, she shouldn't even be asking this stuff. She told me about how she had found her current boyfriends diary on his computer and he made one critical comment about her (this is his diary for f*ck's sakes) so she printed it out and confronted him with it. The pathetic b*stard BEGGED for forgiveness. And now she's cheating on him and has him acting like her slave. AFC to the max.

Thanks guys, my resolve is stronger than ever.

Another NO,my ex wife would read my e-mails. SHE was a control FREAK[caught her reading them]. One symptom of a larger disease. IF she breaks up with her BF?still NO.

I'd ask her if she wanted to read what I texted her BF-if I wanted to lose her,you still may over this,but what did you lose? A cheating woman-you know what she is-she's cheating with you. Next it will be cheating ON you-all the while reading your e-mails and texts to see if YOU are cheating.

I wouldn't allow ANY woman to read my texts and emails.

F*ck that!

Kailex said it well. It's none of her business. If she really has a need to snoop into someone else's personal life, tell her to apply for a job with the CIA/FBI.

Another NO.

What makes it more audacious is that SHE has a boyfriend she cheats on. Then again, women have no concept of fair play.

Dude, I dont care if the woman is my WIFE. Absolutely no way is that ever acceptable. Think of how irate she would be if you demanded to see her private messages!!! Don't back down one millimeter.

Colossus said:

Another NO.

What makes it more audacious is that SHE has a boyfriend she cheats on. Then again, women have no concept of fair play.

Dude, I dont care if the woman is my WIFE. Absolutely no way is that ever acceptable. Think of how irate she would be if you demanded to see her private messages!!! Don't back down one millimeter.

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This ^^^.
And I would go one step further and punish her for making the demand in the first place. Let her know that you "need some space" to consider whether you want to continue to see someone who makes such demands. Do not bother to try to explain or discuss rationally WHY her demand is outrageous - women have no use for legitimate debate. Just let her know that you are PISSED and disappointed. I sometimes tell them that I need, ".. some time to consider my choices." Withdraw your affection and attention and go silent for a week or two. She will chase you when she realizes that you meant it by your withdrawal.

THis story is another example of a woman's inflated sense of entitlement to get whatever she wants just because she wants it. In this case she wants information .
"Fair play"is a foreign (and inconvenient) concept to them.

Colossus said:

Another NO.

What makes it more audacious is that SHE has a boyfriend she cheats on. Then again, women have no concept of fair play.

Dude, I dont care if the woman is my WIFE. Absolutely no way is that ever acceptable. Think of how irate she would be if you demanded to see her private messages!!! Don't back down one millimeter.

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Here's my question to all of you: why is it that this question would come up among guys, but never among girls? Why are we even considering this question?

In other words, I don't think a girl would ever ask her friends: 'Oh this guy demands to see all my emails and texts, should I let him?' She would just reject the guy's demands right away.

It seems like we are the weaker sex by even CONSIDERING letting her read it.

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the replies. There's obviously a huge consensus on this and, to be honest, if I was replying to such a post I would say exactly the same thing. I was just a bit shocked last night when this happened but having slept on it it just seems ludicrous that she would ask to do this.

Her logic was all over the shop, but again maybe expecting clear and logical thinking from a woman is like expecting it to snow gold. It was interesting actually trying to work out what was going on in her mind. She was telling me that if I showed her all my messages she would break up with her boyfriend, like she was making me some great offer. And I said to her, 'That's not an offer, it's an ultimatum because the flip side is that if I DON'T show you all texts and mails you'll never see me again'. Her reply was that if she was to break up with her boyfriend then she needed me to do something BIG for her since her breaking up with her boyfriend was such a big sacrifice.

You can see how f*cked up this girl's thinking is. And the scary thing is this is another very well educated, very 'together' woman and yet her actions and way of thinking are absurd. To be honest I wouldn't want to be with this girl. As people on the thread have said she is cheating on her boyfriend and I would most likely be next.

I don't feel bad about what happened. I just wish I had been a little more militant last night and instead of trying to explain why she was being unreasonably (obviously that never works) I should have just said 'No' and left it at that.

Really appreciate the advice guys.

M

Trader said:

Here's my question to all of you: why is it that this question would come up among guys, but never among girls? Why are we even considering this question?

In other words, I don't think a girl would ever ask her friends: 'Oh this guy demands to see all my emails and texts, should I let him?' She would just reject the guy's demands right away.

It seems like we are the weaker sex by even CONSIDERING letting her read it.

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This thread is a thread because of the circumstance coming from the OP's "girl". If it were any other girl... like a plate that was steadily spinning solo, I'm damn sure he wouldn't have asked.

But what strikes so unusual about the OP's case is that it's a girl who is within the confines of an LTR.

Now there's something I've NEVER seen myself.

It takes balls for a female to ask such a thing... but for one within a "committed relationship" to even fathom asking such a question, is beyond ridiculous. The woman has a man of her own and she wants to check someone else's phone? It's ludicrous. We, as men, would never think that a woman who still isn't on the verge of swinging a branch would make such a stupid request, but yet, once again proving that women aren't logical but indeed emotional... is this piece of trash.

And to further accentuate the point:

She was telling me that if I showed her all my messages she would break up with her boyfriend, like she was making me some great offer. And I said to her, 'That's not an offer, it's an ultimatum because the flip side is that if I DON'T show you all texts and mails you'll never see me again'. Her reply was that if she was to break up with her boyfriend then she needed me to do something BIG for her since her breaking up with her boyfriend was such a big sacrifice.

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She wanted to be validated into branch swinging.

I would have said nothing more than just "No" and shown her the door. There is no way in the blue hell that I am showing my phone to ANY woman, let alone one with a boyfriend, and then to add insult to injury, one that says she NEEDS a form of validation to swing over to this branch.

It starts with checking your phone, and it'd eventually end with taking 50% of your money and the children's custody... if you're lucky.

as a married woman, even i don't check my husband's phone.
i don't have the time for that crap!

Kailex and all thanks again. Your advice/view is totally on the money. The truth is I WAS weak in this situation and regret not being much firmer.

What was even more scary was that this girl admitted that this had all been a plan of hers, i.e it was a test which she had constructed and if I passed it by showing her all my e-mails and messages (amongst which there is some really private stuff that I have only spoken to my parents and friends I have known for years and years about) then I would win the prize..... her.

When I got involved with this girl I genuinely liked her. I knew she had a boyfriend but she did everything she could to portray the relationship as being almost over. So we got involved and for a while I didn't see anybody else. After a few months it became apparent that she wasn't going to leave her boyfriend. Around the same time I decided that the whole spinning plates thing was a good idea and so I started seeing other girls.

A few weeks ago this girl admitted, actually volunteered the information that she was still having regular sex with her boyfriend (who she lives with and has been with for over 6 years). I was pretty disgusted but because at this point she was just a spinning plate I let things carry on. Sex with her was always great to be honest and I didn't see any reason to stop seeing her. Of course you could say I was being immoral because I knew she had a BF but I felt that was more her lookout than mine.

What really begun to annoy me was that this girl then started getting jealous and possessive about me. I told her I had drinks with my ex (who is purely a friend now) and she got all upset about it. Seeing her overreaction I thought that if I wanted to keep the plate spinning it was better NOT to be totally honest with her as I had wanted to be. Now this was a mistake on my part I think. Rollo and others have advocated honesty with spinning plates and I didn't follow this good advice to the letter. I didn't lie to her about seeing other girls but I played it down. I know for a fact she would have construed this as me cheating on her so we fell into this totally hypocritical situation where I knew she was having sex with her BF 3x a week but I was seeing other girls (actually not many, not that often and I only had sex with one other girl since the entire time I have become involved with this woman).

So I think in the end she felt like I should be 100% faithful to her while she happily got on with banging her live in boyfriend whenever she felt like it.

I didn't show her the messages for 3 main reasons:

1. It's totally against my principle, a gross invasion of privacy and I would NEVER dream of demanding to see another person's e-mails, even if they were my long term partner.

2. I knew there were messages to my friends talking about her and other girls which she wouldn't like so if I showed her the messages it would be worse than refusing to show them. I intimated this to her but she countered with 'You could read all my messages - I haven't said one bad thing about you in them'. First she isn't a native English speaker so I wouldn't understand the messages, most of which are written in her native tongue. Secondly as I said in the first post I am a very analytical person so I may say some negative things about people even though my overall feeling for that person is positive (myself included).

3. If this girl was going to leave her boyfriend I wanted it to be because she had decided that was for the best. If she then wanted to start a relationship with me, despite knowing about her cheating ways, then maybe I could have given it a shot. I told her this but she told me 'If I am going to do something so big for you (i.e leave my boyfriend) then you need to show me that you are willing to do something big for me. This is female logic at its best (no offence PenKitten).

Anyway this morning she sent me a message telling me (and I'm paraphrasing here) that she was never going to see me again because she lost her passion and love for me as soon as she saw that I wasn't willing to do this thing for her. She also told me that she was going to stay with her boyfriend because she realised that he WOULD do these things for her. As I said, I think, this is a guy that wrote in his diary a couple of semi-bad things about her, she hacked into his diary, read it, printed it out, confronted him with it and then HE begged forgiveness. Unbelievable huh?

She then told me that she didn't really want to read my e-mails, it was just a test to see if I would let her and if I had said 'Yes' then she wouldn't have read them. Not that it matters that much but I don't really believe that. I think she probably would have spent the next 3 or 4 hours reading every e-mail I have, although I can't be sure.

In any case I think that would be an awful start to any relationship. This girl had qualities that, at first, I thought meant I could consider her as having LTR potential. However after pulling the kind of s*** I have been talking about above I realised that she could only ever be a spinning plate and one that it was ultimately better to discard.

For that reason my reply to her message was extremely vitriolic and intended to wound (which it did). You will probably quite rightly think that this was a mistake and AFC behaviour but something in me just didn't want this girl to walk away unscathed, which she would have done since the absolutely, 100% believes that she is totally in the right in this situation.

Thanks for reading, sorry this post was so long. I just wanted to pour some stuff out I guess.

I've gone way off point but I think the consensus view is that women shouldn't be asking to see private messages or texts in general and if that woman herself is in an LTR (in fact living with the guy) then she has no right whatsoever to make this demand. I think this girl is, as one poster described her, a piece of trash.

I split up with my ex-girlfriend a while ago. She was, I have to say, a wonderful girl and we only broke up because she wanted marriage and I didn't. I have to say since that time I have had a lot of fun but I am becoming increasingly jaded with women. The number of psychos, liars, bores and cheaters I have met is....... well I think all the women I have met have fallen into one of those categories. It's not encouraging. I used to look for the best in people but it's becoming increasingly hard to do.

Thanks for listening.

M

Kailex said:

It takes balls for a female to ask such a thing... but for one within a "committed relationship" to even fathom asking such a question, is beyond ridiculous. The woman has a man of her own and she wants to check someone else's phone? It's ludicrous.

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Thats the first thing to come to my mind. She shouldve been shown the door just for suggesting a thing like that.

Miles28 said:

Kailex and all thanks again. Your advice/view is totally on the money. The truth is I WAS weak in this situation and regret not being much firmer.

A few weeks ago this girl admitted, actually volunteered the information that she was still having regular sex with her boyfriend (who she lives with and has been with for over 6 years).

What really begun to annoy me was that this girl then started getting jealous and possessive about me.e

3. If this girl was going to leave her boyfriend I wanted it to be because she had decided that was for the best. If she then wanted to start a relationship with me, despite knowing about her cheating ways, then maybe I could have given it a shot.

Anyway this morning she sent me a message telling me (and I'm paraphrasing here) that she was never going to see me again because she lost her passion and love for me as soon as she saw that I wasn't willing to do this thing for her.

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Miles you do relasie this girl is a NUT-CASE , you are probably one of a number of men on the side shes slept wiht whilst in the RL with her BF. she'd probably never have left her BF as one man is obviously not enougth for her!

Please dont ever think again of having a RL with such a WRONG woman...
you banged her, that was all she was good her...

LOL wow...it's OK for her to keep sleeping with her old boyfriend but if you go have a DRINK with your ex she's jealous?

What a character. She's definitely a "plate".

If I had a WIFE I don't think I'd let her read my texts.

any girl who demands to see my email, text deserve a boot to the door.

It is an intrusion of privacy and an indication that she doesn't trust you.

Again I can only thank you for the replies. They really have helped a lot. She is a nut case alright and I'm glad to be rid of her. I wish I hadn't sent the texts that I did afterwards - basically calling her a crazed wh*re. Even though she is, I should have just left it. I was just so angry though. I'm SO over this girl but now I'm worried about the messages I sent.

Anger begets anger and I just want this fruitcake out of my life. I don't know why I felt the need to wound her at the end. It was petty and I should have just laughed and walked away. Instead I sent a very vituperative and hateful text which wounded her badly. It's AFC behaviour isn't it? I also kind of threatened to tell her boyfriend what has been going on. Again, not a good idea. I don't want her to have grounds to take anticipatory offensive action against me.

Should I just leave it now or should I email and say 'no hard feelilngs. good luck with everything"?

M

Miles28 said:

Should I just leave it now or should I email and say 'no hard feelilngs. good luck with everything"?

M

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Do you really mean ,"..no hard feelings and good luck.." ? Is that how you really feel ? I doubt it. Why say something like that to patch over the cracks when you're still pissed?
Leave the incongruencies, the contradictory statements and the word manipulations to women.

Your text outburst was understandable under the circumstances - but it was ultimately unwise to send it. Never put vitriol in writing, she will read it a zillion times until she convinces herself that YOUR anger was the core problem in the relationship. Women are experts at blame shifting and re-labeling.

I have been in a relationship with a woman whose domestic circumstances were almost identical to those in your story.
My woman was also revealed to be a liar, a compulsive cheater, insanely jealous of other women in my life, and had no real intention of leaving her fiancee (inspite of her endless whining about him to me ) because she was reaping the benefits of living with him.

I learned the hard way about the foolishness of getting in triangles.
The last person to join gets the least reward in the end.