Alot of rules you learn when dating are universal and alot of what you learn in business can be used in dating in a very practical sense.

This was touched on in another thread somewhere, that you will get alot farther with women if you figure out what your niche is and hone your powers witht hem instead of going to the ball with a shotgun. your concentrated efforts will yield more and better results.

I've used this principle throughout my business career. when I sold computers we only sold 100% custom built microATX pc's. that's it. that's a motherfvcking niche for you. But you know what.. we were damn good at it. I'm not going to get in a pc building war with dell or a gaming pc war with alienware.. but they are going to have hell trying to beat us builing these mini fvcking pc's, and we grew.


I handicap races.. pretty much everyday. I'm done "working" before noon and I head to the track and I"m there by 1pm 5 days a week.

I do something that's unheard of to 99% of all horse players. I only handicap 1 track. 1. well not one track, one circut. meaning I follow the same horses around, from santa anita, to hollywood park, then to del mar, then to the bull ring at fairplex (i usually skp that for a break), then back to santa anita, then back to Hollywood park and back to santa anita again.

Instead of having 5 tracks open and trying to find all this stuff at different tracks, I hone all my skills on one circuit and I have learned as much as I can about that circuit and I find value at times when other people can't becuase of it. There was a 20k early wager on a horse today pre race (which means the owners or trainer made a bet usually) on a trainer I knew didn't make bets, that told me right there don't' even waste my time and of course she romped.


In the mornings, I run black17media.com which is my web development company. I turn down more business than I take. We could be bigger, but if were bigger I'd have to work more. I have a particular type of client that I have figured out that I/we work best with. Tech savy people who know exactly that they want and usually already have the design work done or at least most of it and need some hard core programming done who prefer to deal with a US company. the first time someone tells me "I want to have a site that has the FEEL of" i'm gone. that is a client who doesn't know what they want. Or, "someone else told met his site would be 2x less" I'm gone. what is worth is worth paying for.

Because of it, I takl to maybe 3 clients a day and my closing rate is a shade under 50%. I know exactly what my client is looking for, exactly what my selling points are, I don't have to guess, I know price is probably not the most important issue as long as I can justify it, I know they want to constantly know what's going on with their project (which is why they want to work with a US based company) so I have an update for them by the time they wake up in the morning. By 9am i'm usually playing with my son if not done, damn near, and getting ready to got to the gym (I do get up at 4 so it's not like I've worked for an hour or something but you get the point)

I turn down that business becuase I don't want phone calls at 3pm with some client trying to explain the "feel" he is trying to get and he doesn't think we get the "feel" and is trying to explain the "feel" he wants for his website. If you haven't done enough research by the time you talk to me about what type of design you like go waste some newbs time.

I had a client... that I ****ing knew better but he the guy literary made me take he damn job, who was trying to outsource work to us (i don't' deal with third parties, that's another rule, they never work), the only thing, my 9 year old sister had more tech skills than this guy. it's like the guy listening to some winning in the cash flow business tape or somethings and he deiced he could flip websites or some ****. so we are done.. and we transfer him the files and he is *****ing to us about the deadline and he hasn't even setup the merchant account yet so she can't go live anyway and now he is forcing US to set it up or we are going.. i just sent him his money back... I should have known better.

My point in saying all this is... when dealing with women.. know what your type is. know what you do good with and focus on that. hone your skills on that type of woman, figure out what peeks her interest, what gets her going.

Take your inventory, figure out what YOU are, figure out YOUR quirks, and figure out what they work best with.

Take me. I work a lot. By work I mean I'm never home. So a home body for me is out the question. I haven't really figured it all out yet, but I go best with (just being honest) white women that were somewhat well to do growing up, non religious, college educated, no kids who enjoy reading and horses. I do particularity well with women who are somewhat snazzy or stuck up or at least think they are becuase I know what makes them tick or better yet, I know how to make them un stuck up. I don't do well with politically active women becuase I have very strong political beliefs although i'm not politically active, you will say some **** that will eventually piss me off. My fiancees entire political stance is "if it gets too bad i'll just go back to england". that's what the hell I'm talking about. no muss no fuss.

I don't care how hot she is if she's a god freak i'm turning the other way. not because of any religious beliefs, its just not that efficient for me given my track record. kids? bye. I don't even bother to look outside these criteria and if one so happens to take interest i'm not interested becuase i can foresee the clusterfvck that will partake if I escalate this issue. it's going to be a waste of time.

When I saw my fiancee I KNEW she was attracted tto me becuase ALL women just like her are attracted to me, which in turn, made me come off as somewhat arrogant and sure of myself which she ate up. I remember I told her i know she liked me and she told me then I had some nerve but then like a week later she told me she thought that was so sexy.


I use bait. I let you catch me reading that book on barbaro (note to guys, all women love barabro) even though I've read it 100 times already, becuase I know you are going to then look twice at me. I know when you actually look at me and see I take care of myself and notice the way I address you will come to the logical conclusion that I am not broke.

I also know that when you make a passing comment about the book I am reading and I pay you no real attention that is REALLY going to peak your interest becuase you are a snobby ***** that is used to guys licking your toes when you walk by them and I am different.

I know the next time you see me, you are going to make a more conscious effort to make me notice you.. i know i got you if I cant ell you put more effort into what you have on. You will sit closer to me. you will find a reason to talks o me and i will ignore you again. this will go on utnil my tongue is down your throat.

That is verbatim what happened to me about 4 years ago. I saw a redhead who I thought was pretty cute, could tell she was in college becuase of the books she had, I let her see me, she commented on the horse racing book I had and I knew I had her. 3 days later she came back in Barnes and noble and sat like 1 chair away from me and kept trying to make small talk, I still was being standoffish. She then asked me " you look like an intelligent guy let me ask you a question"..some BS **** she made up just to get me to come sit next to hear... she spent the night with me that night.


I could not have been that confident, and played it like that if I did not know exactly who I was dealing with, what makes them tick, what they are attracted to and what they do and don't like. I knew what she was going to do before she knew she was going to do it, becuase I play this game with the same pieces everyday. How I can say certain things that "omg you just get me".. no i just get your type. I remember I made in passing to her that.. before she even said anything about religion "man I don't see how people can go to church" and she was so happy becuase she found someone just like her lol... fish in a barrel.

How could you read somebody so well just because they asked you about a horse racing book?

How would you already know what makes her tick and all that?

How would you know about her preference in religion?

Excellent post.

This reminds me of business "workflows", in general.

Like women, we must target a specified market of types of women (although looking for other types of women is still an option). Looks aside, it is true that we should take note of what works for us in relation to what THEY have to offer.

Just like the OP's web develpment business. If some guy who can barely blurt out a coherent sentence and has no business card or reference, talks to him about a website project that costs $10,000.00, you can bet he'd turn down that proposal down in a sec.

So, although we may get any type women we may attract, it's best to know our type for the sake of having better-quality results.

Whether you want a ONS, FB or LTR, know your type!

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dude you dont know how correct you are

I had a client about 2 months ago...a woman (in general.. i don't deal wtih women. i dont' pitch the *****.. but she came to me).. she wants this this educational platform built that is going to require about a good 2 months of custom PHP programming,s ome custom slick design to be done right.

not he woman would not know PHP from ABC. I sent her a proposal, a pretty thorough one. About 26 pages of what all we are going to point by point, other important stuff.

she tells me "yeah I just scrolled down to the bottom and saw the price" and this company says they can do it for 1/3rd of that price so i'm going to go with them


5 days ago she contacted me back asking could she come with us.. they used some cheap ass script that blows and therw some crappy template and she doesn't understand any of this, she just knows she doesn't like it and it looks like crap.

my point is, my thing about clients... I am probably the most marticlous person I know when it comes to work. People who know at least the lingo, can appropriate it more when I show you the backend of a site that is very similar to yours and live you admin access to it and show you some of the control features we will do for that.


oh, PERFECT example.

I got an email from a guy yesterday... the guy emails me and asks for my portfolio.. lol, i'm like okay, where did you get my email address from? he says your website.. i'm like damn guy are you that stupid? it's a big ass portfolio link on the top of the page.

Okay, we all make mistakes.

so he calls me and says he wants to 'see something and he will tell me if he likes it or not'.. umm. no. that's not how I roll. so you can take that to another programmer and try to get him to do it for a lesser price. I have like a 10 page document full of references and we have a spotless feedback rating on 3 freelance sites. if that's not enough than you have trust issues, i'm sorry (this is an important point to note with women...i'm not bending over backwards to satify you). The guy said "well all you are going to do is give me a bunch of people who are going to say good things about you"

BRILLANT!

that's strike 2 and by now i'm seriously thinking about just deleting his information off my computer.

he looks at the portfolio finally.. and says he wants to see some times with databases

I send him the backend to like 12 different sites.

he looks at them and says he doesn't' see any database information. I didn't even bother to reply. I'll let someone else waste their time with him.

Before I met my Fiancee, the last girl I was somewhat serious with was a girl by the name of Crystal. Crystal was a cutie pie and while she liked horses, she actually works in the thoroughbred industry.. that's about ll we had in common. She has the lowest type of self esteem.. the type that makes her very verbally abusive towards others.Knowing I have a history of drug abuse, she got made at one day and called me a crackhead. that hurt and she knew it. at that point I had one foot out the door. not becuase she hurt my feelings.. hell she was right lol. But because a real woman doesn't use information like for a 'gotcha moment'. real women have more class than to use someone's history to make them feed bad. She's lazy. She's sickly. She forbids the talk of exercise.

One day I just asked her if she wanted to come to the gym with me. she actually went on this like 2 minute tirade about some ****... that was 3 years ago. i went to the gym and never talked to her again, dispiate at least 100 texts from her. let someone else waste their time with that. No i didn't' do jack **** wrong. I asked her to go to the damn gym.

the key is, even if you started doing everything she wanted you to do, she is probably going to like you less becuase you have no backbone. AT the end of the day it's her issues you are dealing with that is the forbearing of all problems.



Here is the checklist I use for all my clients.

customer is somewhat tech savvy - I will not waste time putting together a proposal for someone who cannot understand it. someone who doesn't understand technology is someone who does not undrstand the value of technoglly and therefore is not going to pay for it.

customer knows what they want - From personal experience. I have started and sold one company and I am successfuly running another.

We filled a 80GB external hard drive with nothing but documents on operations, proceedures, site outlines, and different types of **** for our first company becuase we believed in it and we knew we had to be as detailed as possible

This is the big thing but all you can come up with is a 3 sentences? I need to be this project is important to you.

This is key. If I can take a person who is passionate about their job, and show in return that same amount of passion, 8 out of 10 times I will get ath job. That person more than anything is looking for someone who sees their vision and wants to put in as much as they are going to do.


customer has a realistic budget - what is worth is worth paying for. Also... becuase for some long term clients i have no problem slashing prices.. But this tells me about a clients personality. This person is unrealistic and a cheap-ass who doesn't understand what they are asking for is worth, or even worse, understands and isn't willing to pay it. Pass.


customer is not being snobbish - The guy who has built 2 websites and thinks he knows everything about web design. Or the guy that got ripped off or scammed and now is taking it out on everyone else when he did not do his due diligence. he thinks he can now right a how to build websites 101 book becuase he has overseen 2 projects. General just an ******* to work with.


customer is not making unrealistic demands - like.. I need this 15 page ecommerce site done by monday, at the absolute latest.. 2 things.. first i know we can't do it. why take a job you can't do and you know you can't do it? Secondly, again the person ovbiously does not understand what he is asking for becuase if he did he would know it is unrealistic.


customer is US Based - Actaully I will deal with canada as well. My best most long term client is in Toronto.

I must be able to pick up the ****ing phone and call you in my business hours. By no latter than 11am I don't want to be bothered or want to bother anyone. I"m not saying up to 2 am to talk to someone in the UK.


customer is not being extremely secretive about the project - Now.. this is a fine line. On our original company we would not talk about what we wanted done with our website without getting a NDA signed. I have no problem witht hat.

but the guy who says, yes we will agree on the price, and then I will provide you with more dtailsd.. what the ****? so basically you want me throw a dart against the wall, hope i'm right and then if i won you will give met he price? and i"m suprised at how many people waste their time.

mothervucker if you can't give me a full breakdown of what you are looking for so i can bill it out part by part, why the **** bother?


we can show the client very similar examples - I know what type of work we do better than others and I look for projects that we have done well in the past that I can demonstrate to them beyond a shadow of a doubt we can do.


Do I honestly believe we are a great fit for this project

simply put, if i BELIEVE we are a good fit for this project, I will generally have a better viber about it and try harder.




are they asking stupid questions

Any customer asking for my resume is an autodiss. we are ****ing web development firm. you don't need my resume you need my portfolio.

I had one client, actually offer me about a 10,000 website job, but wanted me to forward him resumes' of all the people working on the job and i told him to get lost. Besides possible legal issues.. wtf do you need it for?

again if 10 pages of references are not enough n that's your problem. it's not about the resumes themselves as much as it is the trust issues. this guy has trust issue written all over him?

I had a job for a client about 6 months ago. Quite honestly, I dropped the ball. I hired a chick (actually the girl with the range rover I posted about a few months ago) and she quit becuase i was actually making her work and not getting paid to sit around and talk about walrus pvssy (inside joke) all day long, and he was sending updates to her email when she wasn't working anymore.. big mess. So i sent him his money back.

the guy left a negative feedback on a freelance site. So i had a client do his research and find it.. which i have no problem with, **** happens so he asks me to explain myself.

Now.. i want to break this down. on that same site we have like 20 positive feedback ratings and 1 negative one.

the site we actually got his information from we have a spotless rating and are ranked in the top 1% of the developers on the site out of about 5,000 providers.


if you are dealing with a guy who is willing to dig though all that to find 1 negative thing..bye. and hell it's note even really negative. the guy was pissed hem issued deadline and took it out on me which i accept. but that's not the point. the point is the guy is willing to look over a couple of hundred positive feedback to find 1. i have about 10 clients i do alot of work with long term and none of them said he even bothered to email to ask for a reference.

that is not a customer i'm losing sleep over losing.

When I was a kid, my grandparents ran a farm and small orchard. They had the best produce around for a competitive price. I remember on the few occasions that an unreasonable customer wanted a refund, that customer always got a full refund. And as my grandparents were handing the money back, they would simply tell that person to never come back. Those are powerful words in a retail business, but also in any relationship, business or personal. If you can tell someone to get out of your life and mean it, you will always be in a position of power.

This is a fascinating thread. And it ties in well to the attitude you MUST have with women. If you believe in the quality of what you have to offer, it's OK to say "no" to a customer who YOU think is not a right fit for YOU.

Too many parties to a relationship (business or romantic) don't understand the power they have as a party to negotiation. Obviously, you have to bring something to the table that they WANT, but you also have a right to get what YOU want out of the deal as well if you are giving THEM value. If they are detracting value from your life, the money (or in romantic cases, the sex) is not enough to compensate you for the hardship you're going through...maybe it's time to give them their money back and tell them to F off. "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"

Oh women sh!t a brick when you do that, too. People who are used to having the power absolutely FLIP when suddenly someone says, "I'm not dealing with you. Get lost."