I can't break out of this particular conditioned mindset, read on...

[edger]

About a year ago, I made a pact with myself I would start cold-approaching hotties with regularity in clubs(some of you might remember me talking about that), but I can't for the f*ckin' life of me get past thinking I'm being an annoying pain in the ass, a creep, and doing a disservice to these dumb b*tches, due to me being conditioned my whole life to think that, remembering women my whole life saying "I hate when guys approach you in clubs, it's so annoying", or "These guys that approach you in clubs, oh my God, are such creeps", etc., etc., etc. I'm sure you've all heard women say this a million times over the years. This is EXACTLY what makes me hesitant to cold-approach. This is why I detest it. Because I don't want to be labeled "that creep" or another "annoying loser", eventhough I know I'm none of these. If there's one main reason why guys don't cold-approach, it is exactly that.

My question to the seasoned players is, when women complain about guys cold-approaching, is this just another part of their b.s. talking at work here, or do they really not like it?

I was having a deep discussion with my buddy this past Saturday night on the way home from my regular club, who gets pissed that I don't pull and cold-approach, because in his words, "Edger, you're a typical good-looking white guy, and here I am, a dark Indian guy from India, who isn't as good-looking as you, who can hardly be understood when he speaks, and I pull more hotties than you, on a regular basis". He can't for the life of him understand how a guy like myself isn't rolling in the babes. He's told me on a number of occassions, "When I first met you, I would've sworn you were a player pulling in fine women, with that long hair and all, and that rocker look." He said it to me again most recently yesterday and then started laughing about how wrong he was. I started laughing with him too(hey, I try to find humor in everything and obviously don't take life too seriously).

So, again, my question to the seasoned players is, when women complain about guys cold-approaching, is this just another part of their b.s. talking at work here, or do they really not like it? According to my buddy, it is all b.s. that women just say.

I remember as a kid when I was like 11/12 yrs old, I would walk up to any attractive girl and open them easily, and pull them, and that's because I wasn't conditioned yet to think that I was doing a disservice to women. I always had a hot girl as a kid. Now, forget it.

[Stagger Lee]

I think for the most part women just say they hate being approached and that it's "creepy" and the guys are "creeps". Women and society in general tries to get inside the head of males and get them to beta themselves. But on the other hand they actually do say this about guys and to other people, if you approach a girl and she for whatever reason isn't attracted to you. So it serves as defamation and can hurt your rep.

For instance there are times when I'll be talking to a girl at a bar, and one of my friends will come up and talk to her girl friend. Then after he leaves the girl will say the guy was a creep or creepy without knowing that I know the guy.

It is messed up how men are expected to do the pursuing, and when they do women are free to call them "creeps" for doing what women are delegating men do. Women are subjective, arbitrary and capricious. So anything a woman has to say about anyone or anything should hold no weight, but society gives women's words maximum weight. But a guy that approaches a girl is "great" if she is attracted to him, but for no other reason than she's not attracted to him, then he's a "creep".

I think though if you are gaming at clubs in a big city it doesn't matter what a few random people say about you. You have to simply not care and take action and take the gamble to get any where.

[edger]

But on the other hand they actually do say this about guys and to other people, if you approach a girl and she for whatever reason isn't attracted to you.

Yeah, it's so f*ckin' stupid. Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing.

It is messed up how men are expected to do the pursuing, and when they do women are free to call them "creeps" for doing what women are delegating men do.

Exactly, I said this in another post a few days ago. They're ready to get on a guys case for cold-approaching, but then will have the nerve to b*tch and complain that no men approach them. Gee, I wonder why you dumb 'poor excuse for a human being'.

but society gives women's words maximum weight.

I don't know how it ever came to this. I don't know how the f*ck men ever became brainwashed into thinking their own gender was the enemy. Even though feminist's have done a job on twisting people's mind's, couldn't men have still have figured out that we're not the enemy.

[katatonia]

Part of the 'alpha mindset' is not giving a fvck. Clearly you give a fvck what these women think about you, whether they will label you a creep or not, etc. In reality there is no problem going up and approaching a hot girl. Your mindset should be that you are doing them a favour by even approaching these women because YOU are the prize. There's your problem.

[Pandora]

Women are subjective, arbitrary and capricious. So anything a woman has to say about anyone or anything should hold no weight

Bingo. I think Stagger Lee has it right. This is exactly why we should not take the whole mating ritual of cold approaching and dating so personally. Alot of how a women initially responds to you is based on capricious factors. These factors are largely mysterious/subconcious to even her. Add this to the fact that women are very fickle. You can have tremendous failure with one girl, but tremendous success with a another girl in the same night for no good reason other than one girl thought u were cuter than the other girl did or she liked ur image more. It might even be something even more trivial like you remind her of a guy she hated in second grade or sum other bs. Sometimes they dont even know why they reject you or are drawn to you. Trust me, they really are that fickle. At its core cold approaching is just numbers game.

[edger]

Your mindset should be that you are doing them a favour by even approaching these women because YOU are the prize. There's your problem.

That is my exact mindset, has been for a long time now, however, eventhough a guy knows what he's about(a prize), still doesn't stop women from falsely labeling him.

[Die Hard]

If the guy looks good and acts like a DJ, chicks will like it.
If the guy looks bad and acts like an AFC, chicks will not like it.

The millions of times you've heard women being negative about guys approaching them, they were just referring to the situations where the guy looked bad and acted like an AFC.


however, eventhough a guy knows what he's about(a prize), still doesn't stop women from falsely labeling him.

True. Knowing you're 'the prize' is not enough. You have to show what you know!

[Scaramouche]

Dear Edger,
If you insist on limiting your activities to clubs you will never achieve your worth....Those places are only marginally better than Internet Dating,when you have a Girl sure take her to the Club but trying to pull them there?you have too much competition.

[logic1]

I have been in clubs and watched guys go from table to table approaching women. They did look like a pain in the ass. Maybe even annoying. So, yes there is a possibility you are being a creep, not because you are, but because of the way you are going about the game.

In a club you must be aware of your surroundings. Take about an hour to survey the hunting grounds. There are some women you should not waste your breath on. Pay attention. The women you should not have approached in the first place are most likely the ones making the smart ass comments.

[zekko]

I'm sure getting hit on can get annoying at times, so there's probably some truth to what the girls say. But other times I think it's their way of bragging: "oh, all these guys are always hitting on me, it's so annoying. You're lucky you're an ugly girl and don't have to deal with it".
Also, if they don't want to get hit on, why do they go to clubs?

The other thing I would say is if this Indian guy is so good at pulling chicks, why aren't you benefiting? Like getting the hot friend of the girl he pulls, etc. ? I'm sure you'd rather pull your own, but still....

[taiyuu_otoko]

Yeah, it's so f*ckin' stupid. Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing.


dude, you're the male version of a goldigger. Chicks are pretty good at sniffing stuff like that out. A combination of lust and hatred is not a good state to be in when approaching girls.

[squirrels]

See, we're in a weird transitional state right now with "nightlife". My generation was RAISED on "tha clubb" on weekends. The funny thing is now that all these club-rats are married and all, they STILL dont' know what to do with themselves, so you get more and more married or "attached" women going out to the clubs because "that's what they've always done".

Back then, the clubs were a "meat-market" and that's WHY you went there, male or female. But that's not to say they aren't...there are many exclusions out there. Even those, though...man, I've had married women sit on my lap at the bar telling me how awesome their husbands are while I feel them up, I've had women tell me, "If I wasn't married I would totally suck your **** right now"...

But let's set aside the people who are at bars/clubs and don't really belong there...

----------------------------

The reason women complain about guys approaching them in clubs is because the guys approaching them in clubs are NOT the guys they want to talk to.

If they were REALLY that creeped out about guys approaching them in clubs, they'd get their girlfriends together, put some techno-music on the iHome, and dance in the living room.

First of all, in a nightclub, if you're not attractive, or at least made up to be attractive, FORGET women. No one's going to spot you across the dance floor and yell, "Hey, nice personality!" If you don't have a pretty face, or a ripped body, you'd better be dressed in clothes that make you look good and carry yourself in a way that makes women think you have value.

Honestly, every night I went out to "tha clubb", I would look at myself in the mirror before I left. 9 times out of 10, I couldn't help but say, "Damn I look good." Part of it's natural looks, but not a huge part. A lot of it's the smile and dressing not necessarily in designer crap, but in stuff that I know makes my face and frame look good. Even then, not EVERY woman is going to be attracted to exactly the same thing, but even as a dude, you can tell when another dude is the kind of guy that ladies would dig on. If you don't get that impression about YOURSELF before you even set foot in "tha clubb", then you may as well not waste time on women.

Now here's the thing about "the approach".

There are two reasons why a guy approaching in the club seems creepy.

The first probably pertains more to you than the second. That first pitfall of the approach is being uncomfortable with your own sexuality.

A woman who has just rolled into a nightclub or bar doesn't know you. All she has to go on is the way you behave and the way you carry yourself. What you MAY NOT know is that how you view the interaction is displayed in your mannerisms.

If you go in with the idea that "women find sex to be creepy", then that is what you'll portray during the "approach". Either you'll bullsh!t around the issue of attraction until she gives you an open invitation to make a move (which she often won't).

Or you'll supplicate, buying her drinks, doing her favors, trying to make her laugh so she feels like she OWES you something, like you've EARNED it...and believe me, there's no faster way to creep a girl out than doing her any kind of favors with the implication that you're "buying sex" from her by doing so.

If you are afraid to show direct sexual interest because YOU believe that it's "creepy", she will read that in the way you behave. Same if you feel like you're NOT an attractive guy...she will sense that in the way you carry yourself...as if you're compensating for her not liking you. Funny thing is, she doesn't KNOW whether she should "like you" or not at this point, you're a stranger. But the way you're behaving suggests that OTHER WOMEN probably haven't liked you in the past, and she reads that and gets creeped out. "Why is he acting like I shouldn't like him? What HORRIBLE THING has he done that makes him approach me so apologetically?"

Stack on top of that some "game" taken from some SoSuave website and suddenly you have a major incongruence...you know all the right things to say, but the WAY you say them says, "don't trust me". Women RUN from that kind of incongruence.

The second thing is that most guys forget that girls are HUMAN BEINGS. Honestly, if you want to marry her, that's great. If you just want to f**k her, they are COOL with that too. As long as it's HER that you want to f**k.

No woman just wants to be "another warm hole". And that's where the second set of guys "creeps out" the lady. They approach her with the mindset, "you'd make a nice notch in my bedpost". He makes no move to discover HER sexual energy, she's a total STRANGER to him, and all he seems interested in is getting his winky wet. Those guys that Logic1 is talking about that use the "shotgun approach" and just bounce from table to table trying to run some game, they typically fall into this category.

I mean, what would you think if some girl was just bouncing from table to table trying to hit on every guy in the place? Even if she's hot as hell, wouldn't you wonder to yourself, "What's wrong with her?"

Women have no problem being a piece of meat...as long as you see her as that prime cut of filet mignon that you salivate over every time you think about it, not just another cheeseburger from McDonalds to satiate your rumbling stomach. They want to be APPRECIATED. They want their friends to know that an attractive man selected THEM out of all the girls in the club.

That's why a lot of celebrities get that instant cred...they literally CAN get any girl they want. Just by selecting to spend the evening with a particular girl, that girl gets the feeling that she is "special". Not even the hottest girls in the world see themselves as "the hottest girls in the world". So if you're Brad Pitt or George Clooney, they assume you can get with ANY exotic supermodel you choose, at any time...but you chose THEM.

So to summarize:

1) Be attractive. Look your best. Take CARE of yourself...comb your hair, wear nice clothes, treat yourself like someone that the ladies are DYING for. If you don't take care to look good, women will see you and think, "He must not think too much of himself".

2) Be COMFORTABLE with what you're doing. When you approach a woman, act like it's the most natural thing in the world. Think of "sex" as just another part of the day, just another fun thing to do like playing a video-game or going bike-riding. Make her feel your SINCERITY...and make her feel like she can f**k you or she can not-f**k you...you've had both happen and either way, it's natural.

3) Be interested in HER, even if it's only to f**k her. You don't want to "F**K her", you want to "f**k HER". (note the emphasis) Act like you have the right to be selective and you are CHOOSING to spend time with her, rather than like you need to sink your d**k into something and she just happened to be the closest piece-of-arse to you.

[st_99]

Part of the 'alpha mindset' is not giving a fvck.


I think this pretty much sums it up. Somehow we need to drill this into our heads until we get it. Its not about what she wants, its about what you want.

[samspade]

Women have all kinds of defenses to weed out the wusses. As katatonia said, not giving an F is one of the most important things. You can't be worried about outcome - whether that outcome is a lay or being called a "creep."

Bear in mind that 90% of the guys who do approach women come off as creepy, anyway, because they don't understand game. They buy drinks, over-compliment, hang around too long, and sheepishly ask for numbers in a supplicating manner. THIS will creep out a woman far more than you swaggering over and telling her that her shoes look cheap but her hair's okay.

Bottom line is not to listen to what women say about game, romance, etc. They don't know what they are talking about and subconsciously will advise on on the opposite of what works. As for you getting past the "creep" label in your mind, you just have to not care, and there are lots of threads around here about that mental block.

[edger]

dude, you're the male versiorepels them?n of a goldigger. Chicks are pretty good at sniffing stuff like that out. A combination of lust and hatred is not a good state to be in when approaching girls.

Well, isn't it common knowledge around here that guys SHOULD turn on their sexuality? I mean, I don't make it look like I'm sex starved or a rapist, but I do try to turn on that male sexual energy that we all place an importance on here. And on to the 'hatred' part, while it's true that I'm not the biggest fan of women's qualities, I never ever let them know or display in my behavior how I really feel about them. What could I possibly be doing that they would catch on to this? Give me some examples. I'm a pretty damn good actor, and very convincible in my behaviors, believe me. I honestly don't think I'm repelling women because of these things.

[edger]

I told edgar a long time ago that he had an unattractive ego and here he is posting this crap:

Women are such f*cked-up c*nt's. They're so quick to coin guys as "creeps" or "annoying", without having any basis on that or even knowing them. Not that it's news to anyone, but women are irrational, psychopaths. I swear they're only good for one thing."

And he wonders why as a good looking dude surrounded by hotties he hasn't been laid in years?

Women feel edgar's ego driven energy from across the room and when they see him approaching, the alarm sirens blare and they hit the panic button.

Can you elaborate exactly what it is you feel I'm doing that's turning them off, citing examples? Like I said to Taiyuu_otoko, isn't it common knowledge around here that guys SHOULD turn on their sexuality? I mean, I don't make it look like I'm sex starved or a rapist, but I do try to turn on that male sexual energy that we all place an importance on here. And on to the 'hatred' part, while it's true that I'm not the biggest fan of women's qualities, I never ever let them know or display in my behavior how I really feel about them. I'm a pretty damn good actor, and very convincible in my behaviors, believe me.

[edger]

Double post, my mistake.

[8YearLurker]

Some great replies here, a few things I want to add:

Yo, you GOTTA learn how to read people, especially women. You need to develop this cerebral ability. Women actually have this sh1t down far greater than men do.

When I walk into a bar, the mall, a bus, a store.. I know who wants me and who doesn't. The best naturals out there have this ability.

I know when I step into a room, which woman I'm making nervous, which woman's pupils are dilating in my presence. Dude become a master at reading body language, facial expression, and nonverbal communication...

I'm so in tune with the thoughts of people in my environment. I have to be for my line of work. If I can't read people, I don't make the bread and I could potentially lose my license to practice.

This ability will let you know who's horny, who wants you, who despises you, who respects you, who's confiding in you, etc.

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

You know how I met my last girl? Right on the streets of Midtown Manhattan. As she walked in my direction she arched her back which brought her t1ts up, she started stroking her hair, and walked a helluva lot slower. I was buzzed from the bar but I knew she was doing this all for me. I moved in for the kill, got her number called her a week later and next thing you know we're making out in the downstairs of 'coffee shop' a lounge type place on Union Square.

This actually turned into one of the best relationships I ever had, being that she was sweet, educated, and gorgeous.

It wasn't a cold approach as much as it was me reading her mind. I know it sounds crazy... i know it does..

Everyone's gonna say "oh 90% of approaches never work etc." But my point is don't make it an "approach." Go for the hot women who are giving you Indicators of Interest. And Edger, I know you're getting indicators from hot women, I've read your posts...

Once you get in the door by reading these signs, you can now work on CLOSING, whether it be a lay, a number, an email. Millions of guys get indicators, but how many of them can initiate, move in, and close??

I've been blown out before, I even talked about it in a thread titled "Man, it's so Random." That randomness I was referring to was about ATTRACTION, not pick up.

I also have an issue where I know for a fact a woman is sending me positive signals I just don't fking act on it. This can really cause frustration. I'm working on it.

I'm not perfect but my goal is just to be out in the field as much as possible constantly developing this sixth sense.

[squirrels]

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.


This is a gold nugget right here.

If she was really that "creeped out" by you, she'd go out of her way to avoid you. It's been rare, but there are times when I've been "in the zone" and could just sense things like this. If you look good (again, not just face and body, but in carriage and presence), you're getting looks, even if you don't see them. When you become attuned to that kind of thing, it's like when Keanu sees "the code" at the end of The Matrix for the first time.

A lot of times, this scares the "AFCs" more than anything. They get a glance at "the code" and feel like they're seeing something they're not supposed to see, almost as if they're seeing the girl naked. They become embarassed and self-conscious and start second-guessing all of it. They start feeling like they're being "creepy" by seeing through a woman's sexual mechanics. BAM...they come off as "creepy".

I don't think I've EVER done or said anything "memorable" or used any canned lines or gimmicks to hook up with a girl. It's just a matter of having the right attitude (see my long-winded spiel above) and then being able to recognize when a woman wants lovin'.

As R. Kelly says, "I'm wise enough to know when yo' body's callin' ".

Take me to your special place
close your eyes, show me your face.
I'm gonna P!SS ON IT!

Haters wanna hate, lovers wanna love.
I don't really want...none of the above.
I want to P!SS ON YOU!
Yes I do, I'll p!ss on you! I'll pee on you!

Your body...ohhh your body....
is a Port-a-Potty.

[JAS760]

Some great replies here, a few things I want to add:

Yo, you GOTTA learn how to read people, especially women. You need to develop this cerebral ability. Women actually have this sh1t down far greater than men do.

When I walk into a bar, the mall, a bus, a store.. I know who wants me and who doesn't. The best naturals out there have this ability.

I know when I step into a room, which woman I'm making nervous, which woman's pupils are dilating in my presence. Dude become a master at reading body language, facial expression, and nonverbal communication...

I'm so in tune with the thoughts of people in my environment. I have to be for my line of work. If I can't read people, I don't make the bread and I could potentially lose my license to practice.

This ability will let you know who's horny, who wants you, who despises you, who respects you, who's confiding in you, etc.

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

You know how I met my last girl? Right on the streets of Midtown Manhattan. As she walked in my direction she arched her back which brought her t1ts up, she started stroking her hair, and walked a helluva lot slower. I was buzzed from the bar but I knew she was doing this all for me. I moved in for the kill, got her number called her a week later and next thing you know we're making out in the downstairs of 'coffee shop' a lounge type place on Union Square.

This actually turned into one of the best relationships I ever had, being that she was sweet, educated, and gorgeous.

It wasn't a cold approach as much as it was me reading her mind. I know it sounds crazy... i know it does..

Everyone's gonna say "oh 90% of approaches never work etc." But my point is don't make it an "approach." Go for the hot women who are giving you Indicators of Interest. And Edger, I know you're getting indicators from hot women, I've read your posts...

Once you get in the door by reading these signs, you can now work on CLOSING, whether it be a lay, a number, an email. Millions of guys get indicators, but how many of them can initiate, move in, and close??

I've been blown out before, I even talked about it in a thread titled "Man, it's so Random." That randomness I was referring to was about ATTRACTION, not pick up.

I also have an issue where I know for a fact a woman is sending me positive signals I just don't fking act on it. This can really cause frustration. I'm working on it.

I'm not perfect but my goal is just to be out in the field as much as possible constantly developing this sixth sense.

remarkable bro, i really want to get to this level.
how did you get there?

[zekko]

I mean, what would you think if some girl was just bouncing from table to table trying to hit on every guy in the place? Even if she's hot as hell, wouldn't you wonder to yourself, "What's wrong with her?"
Everything in your post made perfect sense. But doesn't this go against most basic game philosophy? Don't they tell you to get out there and talk to everybody in the club? Don't they tell you not to show too much interest in a girl, make her think you're indifferent to her? Yet here you are saying "make her think you want HER specifically?".

[Die Hard]

Edger, you just think you're not signalling a certain mindset. You show it in very small details that you're not even aware of yourself... It's hard to give explicit examples, it could be your shoulders being pointed little more forward than usual, your eyes blinking just a few milliseconds faster than usual, the pauses between your words/sentences being a few milliseconds longer than usual. And usually it's a combination of several of those examples. You're not aware of all those things yourself and others are often not even conscious of them, but unconsciously they do pick them up and just get the general feeling that something's not right about your behaviour.

How you feel and what you think will be reflected in your behaviour, period. Trying to control all the little details of your behaviour is nearly impossible. If this is what you try or want to learn, give up already... Sure you can learn to control certain things and it will add to the impression you're making but you should really try to control your behaviour by controlling what you think and feel. That way, it will be 'real' and girls won't get the feeling that something's off about you (because there really isn't!)

[Julius_Seizeher]

From reading the title of this post, I assess that your greatest mental hurdle is the thought "I can't break out of this mindset..." Dude, your mind is the only thing in this world over which you have 100% control, everything else is exposed to varying degrees of risk, chance, and outside influence.

Engrain the truth into your Mind, that it is your thoughts and your thoughts ALONE that make you or break you. How else could it be? From where else will the impetus come, to make the changes and to create the life you want?
As every teacher, prophet, and philosopher has agreed since the beginning of time, you are what you think about.

I suggest you delve into the teachings of people like Napoleon Hill, Earl Nightingale, Marcus Aurelius, Zig Ziglar and countless others who have expounded upon this philosophy far more eloquently than I ever could...

Or could I?

[squirrels]

Everything in your post made perfect sense. But doesn't this go against most basic game philosophy? Don't they tell you to get out there and talk to everybody in the club? Don't they tell you not to show too much interest in a girl, make her think you're indifferent to her? Yet here you are saying "make her think you want HER specifically?".

You can make someone feel special without acting like they're the ONLY special person out there.

One-itis is more than just thinking that a girl is the only girl for you, it's the idea that if you "f it up" with this girl, it will make the remainder of your life miserable. It's a blatant lie guys who become infatuated tell themselves, and as you know, it's not true.

But that doesn't mean that a woman, as a human being, isn't "special".

As Gunwitch once said, "Have some curiosity about the girl you're about to do the mamba-wamba with!!" If she feels like she's nothing more than a free alternative to a prostitute, she'd rather go home alone.

I guess you could make a distinction between a woman being "special" and a woman being "important". No woman you met 2 minutes ago should be "important" unless she's interviewing you for a job or something. And certainly no woman you're trying to pick up for the first time is "important"...you can take her or leave her and still be confident in yourself. But that doesn't mean she's not "special"...and if you're not in the slightest bit curious HOW, then maybe you ARE better off with a prostitute.

[Stagger Lee]

If the guy looks good and acts like a DJ, chicks will like it.
If the guy looks bad and acts like an AFC, chicks will not like it.

The millions of times you've heard women being negative about guys approaching them, they were just referring to the situations where the guy looked bad and acted like an AFC.




True. Knowing you're 'the prize' is not enough. You have to show what you know!


I think the error here is you assume there are good reasons for a woman rejecting or accepting a man in the first place, and then you vaguely label that "DJ" and "AFC". I disagree with that assumption. And even if it was true, that does not excuse women calling guys "creeps" or "creepy" who haven't done anything wrong. There's no justification for women doing that.

Women call good guys creeps all the time and call a truely creep of a guy wonderful. You are missing the whole point and gloossing over the fact that women are subjective,capricious, arbitrary, and not to mention most of them have no classs or manners and think it's their right to try to step on amn just because for no good reason they're not attracted to him.

[Stagger Lee]

Dear Edger,
If you insist on limiting your activities to clubs you will never achieve your worth....Those places are only marginally better than Internet Dating,when you have a Girl sure take her to the Club but trying to pull them there?you have too much competition.

Edger this is about the only sensible reply you got. No offense to anyone but most of these other replies you got aren't of any help. They are just dogging you. A lot of guys in the PU "community" are as bad as women and live in denial and get irrate when someone says the truth. They defend women better than many women do.

These guys act like they know why and what attracts women. They do not. They act like they can pick up all kinds of hot girls in clubs, but most of them can not. Edger, I think you need to try to take initiative more like I said. There might be some good replies to you in this thread, but I didn't see too many that I read. Don't take any advice or "contructive criticism" to heart.

[Jitterbug]

You can make someone feel special without acting like they're the ONLY special person out there.

As Charlie Harper says, "she's special, not unique!" :cool:

edger's problem, as DonS has touched on, is that he has a gigantic ugly ego. Just read his words in the first post and see how much he's in love with himself and so proud of his so-called good game.

When it comes to dealing with women, a man gotta take risks, regardless of how awesome he is. The problem is that taking risks means you have to be ready to take some blows on that ego and people who are too much in love with themselves would not take any such risk as it may be revealed to them that they aren't as awesome as they think they are.

You can give him all kinds of great advices in the world (and he's already got many in the past) but he will never be able to internalize any of them unless he drops that ego-driven attitude and learns some humility.

[taiyuu_otoko]

What could I possibly be doing that they would catch on to this? Give me some examples. I'm a pretty damn good actor, and very convincible in my behaviors, believe me. I honestly don't think I'm repelling women because of these things.

Incongruity, as has been mentioned before, is a major turn off, and what women are generally referring to when they say "creepy." Don't discount women's ability to "read" your "state," even if they have no idea how to describe it other than "creepy," or not creepy.

If you have sexual energy, but you have even the slightest distaste for those you wish to share your sexual energy, that is hugely incongruent, and they will pick up on it despite your acting skills. In a club, they have their defenses on full alert, so it's hard as fukk to fake your way through their bytch shield. One the street, in a bookstore, yea, maybe. But not in a club.

I know you'd rather blame women for not being open to be approached, but all you can change about this problem is your mindset.

Try this experiment. For the next few weeks, go to clubs with only the intention of meeting and talking to girls without getting even their phone numbers. Just to explore their own energy. Try and find something interesting about them, and leave it at that.

You're never gonna be very successful if you have a hatred for that which you pursue. that's pretty much the definition of incongruence.

And unless you are a psychotic, emotionless psychopath, no acting skills can over come incongruence.

[edger]

Edger, you just think you're not signalling a certain mindset. You show it in very small details that you're not even aware of yourself... It's hard to give explicit examples, it could be your shoulders being pointed little more forward than usual, your eyes blinking just a few milliseconds faster than usual, the pauses between your words/sentences being a few milliseconds longer than usual. And usually it's a combination of several of those examples. You're not aware of all those things yourself and others are often not even conscious of them, but unconsciously they do pick them up and just get the general feeling that something's not right about your behaviour.

How you feel and what you think will be reflected in your behaviour, period. Trying to control all the little details of your behaviour is nearly impossible. If this is what you try or want to learn, give up already... Sure you can learn to control certain things and it will add to the impression you're making but you should really try to control your behaviour by controlling what you think and feel. That way, it will be 'real' and girls won't get the feeling that something's off about you (because there really isn't!)

If they are picking up on my view of them, I would say it's only SLIGHTLY possible, but come on, what guy around here(or out in the world) DOESN'T think most women are crap. That's what more than half of our discussions are based on here on SoSuave. All the seasoned player's here know this. Player's, correct me if I'm wrong please, but isn't this how most of you feel?

[8YearLurker]

remarkable bro, i really want to get to this level.
how did you get there?


I'm not sure, to me it just feels intuitive. My whole purpose in this world is to understand people, it actually stimulates me, makes me happy, and protects me from depression. It also gets me laid and pays the bills.

I wish I could just tear through this screen and fking show you guys what I'm talking about.

[edger]

Incongruity, as has been mentioned before, is a major turn off, and what women are generally referring to when they say "creepy." Don't discount women's ability to "read" your "state," even if they have no idea how to describe it other than "creepy," or not creepy.

If you have sexual energy, but you have even the slightest distaste for those you wish to share your sexual energy, that is hugely incongruent, and they will pick up on it despite your acting skills. In a club, they have their defenses on full alert, so it's hard as fukk to fake your way through their bytch shield. One the street, in a bookstore, yea, maybe. But not in a club.

I know you'd rather blame women for not being open to be approached, but all you can change about this problem is your mindset.

Try this experiment. For the next few weeks, go to clubs with only the intention of meeting and talking to girls without getting even their phone numbers. Just to explore their own energy. Try and find something interesting about them, and leave it at that.

You're never gonna be very successful if you have a hatred for that which you pursue. that's pretty much the definition of incongruence.

And unless you are a psychotic, emotionless psychopath, no acting skills can over come incongruence.

Ok, if what you and Die Hard say is so true, then how is it that serial killers who hate and prey on women, are able to seduce them? Good question, eh?

[Stagger Lee]

Ok, if what you and Die Hard say is so true, then how is it that serial killers who hate and prey on women, are able to seduce them? Good question, eh?

I just clicked on this thread and this was exactly what I was thinking when I read some of the replies that suggested women are somehow mindreaders, able to sense a man's mentality etc. Women date mental defectives all the time. You could even say they prefer them. The thing is they do not like certain mentalities that's true, but it's mostly them picking up on non verbal cues visually, or more likely your actually words or how you say them. Women are a lot more clueless than some seem to think. Women are not "psychic" or all that perceptive, just nitpicky because they can be.

Edger, you know I'm not trying to dog, and I think there are some changes and different approaches you could take. I've mentioned some of them already. So there's probably something to the advice that you could change up your attitude or approach. No guarantees that will accomplish anything though. I've had the sh!test attitude ever on a few nights and picked up. So go figure lol.

But one big error I think posters make in giving advice is they commit a common faulty attribution of blaming someone else's circumstance on internal factors/personal when they are really attributal to external. you ahve a cause and effect chicken egg dilemma going on as well.

Also they are working on the assumption that every girl problem is solvable. It may not be. Worse they come with the attitude that they have the answers and they themselves are successful. Neither may be true.

Take for instance your natural friend. There's no question he is successful and while maybe not cognizant of why, knows how to pick up women. He also knows you and has spent time with you. On top of that he is your friend, so perhaps has less chance of having questionable motives than strangers or at least he doesn't dislike you personally. And he doesn't even have any clue or answers for you, when he's right there next to you in the clubs and afterwards! What would make you think guys on here have the answers!?

One more thing, just because some guys on here dilike your ego or attitude on here does not mean women will not like you. Often times women like the guy no other guys can stand.

[Stagger Lee]

Some great replies here, a few things I want to add:

Yo, you GOTTA learn how to read people, especially women. You need to develop this cerebral ability. Women actually have this sh1t down far greater than men do.

When I walk into a bar, the mall, a bus, a store.. I know who wants me and who doesn't. The best naturals out there have this ability.

I know when I step into a room, which woman I'm making nervous, which woman's pupils are dilating in my presence. Dude become a master at reading body language, facial expression, and nonverbal communication...

I'm so in tune with the thoughts of people in my environment. I have to be for my line of work. If I can't read people, I don't make the bread and I could potentially lose my license to practice.

This ability will let you know who's horny, who wants you, who despises you, who respects you, who's confiding in you, etc.

Despite what this forum thinks, women DO open men. They just do it covertly by bumping into you, finding ways to sit next to you, get in your way, get in your path. That's your sign to move in.. sure beats randomly cold approaching. Those are almost always surefire lays or potential girlfriends, or whatever the hell you're looking for.

You know how I met my last girl? Right on the streets of Midtown Manhattan. As she walked in my direction she arched her back which brought her t1ts up, she started stroking her hair, and walked a helluva lot slower. I was buzzed from the bar but I knew she was doing this all for me. I moved in for the kill, got her number called her a week later and next thing you know we're making out in the downstairs of 'coffee shop' a lounge type place on Union Square.

This actually turned into one of the best relationships I ever had, being that she was sweet, educated, and gorgeous.

It wasn't a cold approach as much as it was me reading her mind. I know it sounds crazy... i know it does..

Everyone's gonna say "oh 90% of approaches never work etc." But my point is don't make it an "approach." Go for the hot women who are giving you Indicators of Interest. And Edger, I know you're getting indicators from hot women, I've read your posts...

Once you get in the door by reading these signs, you can now work on CLOSING, whether it be a lay, a number, an email. Millions of guys get indicators, but how many of them can initiate, move in, and close??

I've been blown out before, I even talked about it in a thread titled "Man, it's so Random." That randomness I was referring to was about ATTRACTION, not pick up.

I also have an issue where I know for a fact a woman is sending me positive signals I just don't fking act on it. This can really cause frustration. I'm working on it.

I'm not perfect but my goal is just to be out in the field as much as possible constantly developing this sixth sense.

This is actually great stuff. The problem with a lot of guys though isn't that they don't pick up on women's signals. The problem is no women are sending them any signals. They are not good enough looking or maybe don't have the appearance that cause attraction. A lot of naturals don't appreciate that they ahve the appearance (not just looks) that attracts while non-natural guys do not.

[Die Hard]

I think the error here is you assume there are good reasons for a woman rejecting or accepting a man in the first place, and then you vaguely label that "DJ" and "AFC". I disagree with that assumption. And even if it was true, that does not excuse women calling guys "creeps" or "creepy" who haven't done anything wrong. There's no justification for women doing that.

Women call good guys creeps all the time and call a truely creep of a guy wonderful. You are missing the whole point and gloossing over the fact that women are subjective,capricious, arbitrary, and not to mention most of them have no classs or manners and think it's their right to try to step on amn just because for no good reason they're not attracted to him.

Point taken about the labelling, there are obviously a lot more shades of grey than simply "DJ" and "AFC". But the labels aren't important, my point was that good looks and the right behaviour will seriously reduce the chances of a woman calling you or your actions creepy.

Of course there are good reasons for women to call you or your actions creepy! You think they just flip a coin to decide that?! Sure, there will always be women who will label you a creep no matter what you do or how you look... Sure, under the same circumstances, one woman might label you a creep and the other not... But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of general rules that greatly reduce the chance of a guy being labelled a creep! It seems like you reason like this: "If not all women apply the same criteria when calling a guy creepy, there is no way at all to know whether a certain woman will call you creepy and it's no use at all to make an effort at reducing the chances of a woman calling you a creep!"

You can't do everything right and make sure no woman will ever call you a creep. But you sure as hell can make sure that it happens only very rarely.

Also, you shouldn't take everything too literally. Suppose you're not interested in a girl who makes a move on you. Next day you tell your buddy about it: "I was totally not interested in that *****." Do you mean she actually acted like a *****?

[Tazman]

I think it's all about initiative. For some reason, you are unwilling to take risks when it comes to possible rejection.

We're all "naturals", but we don't all have the same personalities, dispositions and cultural/environmental backgrounds.

The guys I've seen get a lot of ass are simply more "proactive" about getting it, they put forth more effort, it's more of a hobby for them. What you probably don't see is that they do fail sometimes, but it doesn't stop them. Certain things will make it easier for some guys than others, but trust me, there's no magic recipe in doing it.

Women are definitely not psychic, if they were I'd still be a virgin. If you see a girl you're attracted to and the opportunity presents itself, genuinely approach her and talk to her like you give a damn about her, worry about the other details after you hook her.

If she seems uninterested simply leave the way you approached, no harm no foul. It's tough to do in the beginning, but if you're good at reading body language you can really minimize your risk (bruised ego).

[Stagger Lee]

Point taken about the labelling, there are obviously a lot more shades of grey than simply "DJ" and "AFC". But the labels aren't important, my point was that good looks and the right behaviour will seriously reduce the chances of a woman calling you or your actions creepy.

Of course there are good reasons for women to call you or your actions creepy! You think they just flip a coin to decide that?! Sure, there will always be women who will label you a creep no matter what you do or how you look... Sure, under the same circumstances, one woman might label you a creep and the other not... But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of general rules that greatly reduce the chance of a guy being labelled a creep! It seems like you reason like this: "If not all women apply the same criteria when calling a guy creepy, there is no way at all to know whether a certain woman will call you creepy and it's no use at all to make an effort at reducing the chances of a woman calling you a creep!"

You can't do everything right and make sure no woman will ever call you a creep. But you sure as hell can make sure that it happens only very rarely.

Also, you shouldn't take everything too literally. Suppose you're not interested in a girl who makes a move on you. Next day you tell your buddy about it: "I was totally not interested in that *****." Do you mean she actually acted like a *****?

Right, you can't make every girl like you and you want to minimize getting a bad rep whether through making improvements as necessary or changes, but not just give up approaching.

What I'm talking about though is the phenomenom that a guy approaches a girl (actually all the guy has to do is exist and not even approach) and for no good reason other than she's not attracted/interested in him or is a typical actual triffling b!tch, she will label him a "creep" and "creepy". She will permanently form that "opinion" and right there and then tell her friends and everyone else in the world, "that guy is a creep" for the rest of her life. Most everyone will take her literally and agree with her not just girls but guys. The guy now has negative social proof and a damaged rep.

I've seen this happening a lot to guys. They my not even realize it. You'd be surprised at how much as a guy you are liable to be passively c0ckblocked in this manner. Sure, you want to do what you reasonable can to stay out of that trap, but you can't totally control peoples' behavior motivated by competition, jealousy and hostility.

The "creep, creeper, creepy" is a shaming, c0ckblocking label used against males. It has no real meaning or justification. It just means the girl isn't attracted/interested and possibly the guy wasn't AFC enough. The only way to avoid it without completely AFCing and c0ckblocking yourself is to become more attractive to women. It's a win or lose propostionor whatever you call that.

I have to go back to what 8yearlurker said. You need to avoid girls who are not giving you signals and pick up on the ones that are. Problem is you need to be attractive in the first place for girls to send these signals.

[Drewskie]

Squirrels...... your first post was excellent man. Thanks.

[Die Hard]

She will permanently form that "opinion" and right there and then tell her friends and everyone else in the world, "that guy is a creep" for the rest of her life. Most everyone will take her literally and agree with her not just girls but guys. The guy now has negative social proof and a damaged rep.


Weird... I thought we had established that women labelling you as a creep would be more of an exception than a rule, right? Still, you think that when ONE girl labels you a creep, your ENTIRE social proof will be negative and your ENTIRE rep wil be damaged... This could only be the case if you only approach girls in your direct social circle!

[edger]

but the truth is Edgar is throwing off a vibe that women are not attracted to.

Hey, I really hope I am, as I've said before, so I can find out and put closure on this. There's nothing worse that I want more, than to put this to rest once and for all. I've been looking for a while, dauntlessly, but can't place my finger on anything that would be of any major significance. I've been in the game since I'm 11, so I have a good idea on what's a deal breaker and what isn't with a woman. As I will say over and over again, my game isn't perfect by any means, and there are things that I'm pretty sure I might do in an interaction(again, because no guy is perfect), but whatever it is, it's got to be minor. I knew a guy who was a complete weirdo 4 yrs ago, who pulled good-looking women. Around the time I met him, he was involved with a hot older woman in her late 30's or so, who was a Paralegal, who drove a new BMW. And forget the fact that she was "older", the fact is, she was hot, and could still get any guy she wanted, yet she chose to give her body to this weirdo, who would look down on the floor when he talked to you. And not only was he a weirdo, but he also had no job either and lived with his mom at the age of around 32 or so. I mention "living with his mom", because I know women in America tend to frown upon guy's who live with their mom/parent's. All he did was collect money from his prior military service.



Now the latest cop out is "well serial killers and other sociopaths get laid all the time."

Lol, you're seriously telling me serial killers who hate and prey on women, the same women whom they meet and take home, don't seduce these broads? You must be living in a real shell, because it is a fact that this happens. No disrespect with the laughter here, but such a statement like that is quite funny, because of it's unrealism.

[wait_out]

Lol, you're seriously telling me serial killers who hate and prey on women, the same women whom they meet and take home, don't seduce these broads? You must be living in a real shell, because it is a fact that this happens. No disrespect with the laughter here, but such a statement like that is quite funny, because of it's unrealism.

You are kind of missing Don's point. Classic serial killers do not consider themselves creepy or doubt their intentions. They are psychopaths. They do not feel guilt or remorse. You are not talking about guys who are frustrated and go crazy (like George Sodini), who are off-putting to women. You're talking about guys like Ted Bundy who have no sympathy, empathy or compassion for others. They are completely 'congruent', they are 100% in their own frame, 100% in the moment, and thus opportunistic.

Does any of this describe you?

If you were in a consistently good mood, you'd be looking to share your emotional high and multiply it by meeting a girl you're attracted to. Approaching girls is compulsive and fun when you're like this; it is the most natural, healthy, and non-creepy thing in the world. You know that 3 second rule? It's meant to convey this. 2 things usually happen when you feel good:
1) The girl likes you and reciprocates. (Q: Hi, how are you? A: Awesome!)
2) The girl blows you out. Well, she obviously has 'issues', and why would a happy person like yourself hang out with a downer like her? Calling you a creep is cancelled out by fact that she's no fun.

Girls don't know guys as well as we know guys, they don't understand them, and they don't pick them well. You will just have to adapt to that fact and do your best not to resent them for it -- or judge yourself for their (very limited) opinions of you. Girls can be pretty stupid Edger. Even feminists admit that.

[8YearLurker]

If you were in a consistently good mood, you'd be looking to share your emotional high and multiply it by meeting a girl you're attracted to. Approaching girls is compulsive and fun when you're like this; it is the most natural, healthy, and non-creepy thing in the world.


This right here is key.

[edger]

You are kind of missing Don's point. Classic serial killers do not consider themselves creepy or doubt their intentions. They are psychopaths. They do not feel guilt or remorse. You are not talking about guys who are frustrated and go crazy (like George Sodini), who are off-putting to women. You're talking about guys like Ted Bundy who have no sympathy, empathy or compassion for others. They are completely 'congruent', they are 100% in their own frame, 100% in the moment, and thus opportunistic.

Does any of this describe you?

My point is, Die Hard and Taiyuu_otoko are claiming there is something I am doing in these interactions that are making women "detect" that I dislike most females out there. Now my point is, don't a lot of serial killers who prey on women, dislike them too? Hence that is why they kill them in the first place. Whether these serial killers consider themselves creepy or not, is irrelevant. Look at me, I don't consider myself creepy or doubt any of my intentions, yet what is it doing for me? According to what you're saying, if I don't consider myself creepy or doubt my intentions, then I should be doing fine like these serial killers, because they don't consider themselves creepy or doubt their intentions. The point is, if women are detecting my dislike for a part of the female population, then they should be detecting it in these serial killers as well, because these serial killers don't like them at ALL. These serial killers don't like any of them, period. They're the extreme version. Hell, they're going as far as to kill them, that is how much they hate them.They dislike them ALL, whereas I DON'T dislike them all. As I've said before, I've met some really cool, hot women in my life. So, for the record, I do not think all women are crap; I do think most of them are, the same way a lot of the seasoned players here feel about them, but I do not think they're ALL crap.

Hell, women will STILL write these guys love letters in jail even after finding out that they killed all these women because they hated them. That should tell people a lot.

[S.S.N. 318]

Hell, women will STILL write these guys love letters in jail even after finding out that they killed all these women because they hated them. That should tell people a lot.

..And it should tell also that society as a whole is messed up....

[Die Hard]

It's not neccesarily your dislike of women, Edger. You're very frustrated with women: on the one hand you want them, on the other hand you hate them, you try to convince yourself they're just good for sex while at the same time you realize that you'd like their attention/approval etc. etc. etc. You're just not congruent in the way you think about them, the way you feel about them and therefor the way you act towards them. Don't try to focus on one aspect, it's just your WHOLE F*CKIN EVERYTHING, you're not at peace with yourself, your thoughts and feelings are all conflicting with each other and ALL THAT just show when you approach a girl.

You just have a f*cked up mind and if you want to be more succesful with women, you have to do something about your f*cked up mind. You're just trying to come up with all kinds of excuses in this thread to neutralize any idea that might lead you to believe that the cause of your frustrations lies within you. You WANT the cause of your problems to be external, outside your influence. And you're just gonna keep talking around in circles and evading all the good advice that's being given to you, starting an indefinite number of side-discussions about each and every detail of our good advice and coming up with other tactics to keep postponing the truth from entering your consciousness FOREVER. The truth being that your mind is f*cked up and all your frustration in life and with women is dependant of your f*cked up mind. So stop looking for ways to blame "something else" and go deal with yourself! :mad:

And don't shoot the messenger. I just see what's wrong with you because I've been you in the past.

[edger]

It's not neccesarily your dislike of women, Edger. You're very frustrated with women: on the one hand you want them, on the other hand you hate them, you try to convince yourself they're just good for sex while at the same time you realize that you'd like their attention/approval etc. etc. etc. You're just not congruent in the way you think about them, the way you feel about them and therefor the way you act towards them. Don't try to focus on one aspect, it's just your WHOLE F*CKIN EVERYTHING, you're not at peace with yourself, your thoughts and feelings are all conflicting with each other and ALL THAT just show when you approach a girl.

Dude, I don't know where you've been your whole life, but I've got news for ya, just about every player here(and men in general) has the love/hate(I'd rather not use the word "hate" when describing my dislike for a lot of women, but I'll use it for purposes of this discussion, because it flows better) relationship thing going with women, feeling the exact feelings you describe up top in the beginning of your paragraph. I "want" them because as a human being, as a man, I obviously need women to function; to have a healthy, functioning sex life, the way I need food and water; I "dislike" a lot of them, because they do things for their own selfish gratification at your expense; and of course I want their "approval", for purposes of being able to attract and f*ck them. You're telling me most player's out there and men in general overall, don't feel this way?

The feelings you describe up top are all part of the game. Like it's been said before, the sexe's were meant to be complimentary to one another, not the other way around. We are technically rivals of one another; maybe not "rivals" in the way that we're typically familiar with, but men and women ARE rivals. We are just rivals on a whole other level.

And I couldn't be more at peace with myself. I love everything about myself. I love the man I've become(or am becoming). If I could make love to myself, I would, hahaha. You get what I'm saying though.

And one other thing you might want to make note of: you'll never know anyone here, so you might want to re-consider trying to think you've "figured a poster out" without knowing a single thing about him, without seeing him operate in the field, other than what he says here on a message board, because it is futile. An open mind goes a long way.

[wait_out]

About a year ago, I made a pact with myself I would start cold-approaching hotties with regularity in clubs... I [think I'm] being an annoying pain in the ass, a creep, and doing a disservice to these dumb b*tches... This is why I detest it.

Edge dude why persist in doing something you don't really enjoy? You "operate in the field" with a GPS and ballistic plate, if you're just going to a club you should probably focus on enjoying yourself, and stop investing so much in the outcome. I enjoy whispering (ok, yelling) in a girl's ear, playing with her hair, running my hand down her back. It's great! Girls love it too (their friends not so much). Instead of going home frustrated, I go home thinking "man it's great to be alive!"

Option 1) I danced, made fun and flirted with some girls, went home alone. But you know what? I feel good.
Option 2) 'How Soon is Now' by the Smiths.

Most girls go to a club once in a while with their girlfriends. It doesn't mean you can't meet them anywhere else, more importantly doing something you appreciate doing.

Nobody here knows you well, and one size fits all theories aren't going to explain 'women' like they're an undifferentiated mass. But you started this thread talking about changing your mindset, and that's what we're addressing.

I "dislike" a lot of them, because they do things for their own selfish gratification at your expense;

FFS man, you see women as a commodity like food and water which functionally exists satisfy your sexual needs. What's different about that?

Regarding the serial killer angle: how many girls do you personally know who've written and are infatuated with a death row inmate? Are you getting a little carried away with this? And no: not all serial killers kill women because they hate them. They just enjoy killing.

At this point you're being pig-headed. If nobody here can really know you, and thus judge and critique you, isn't it somewhat illogical to ask for advice on your problems? Let's not do a C+P pride war, just decide for yourself if you truly want to listen to people or not. *HINT:* Girls like good listeners

[edger]

At this point you're being pig-headed. If nobody here can really know you, and thus judge and critique you, isn't it somewhat illogical to ask for advice on your problems? Let's not do a C+P pride war, just decide for yourself if you truly want to listen to people or not. *HINT:* Girls like good listeners

There's a difference with offering good, constructive, sound advice and making definite claims that "I'm" sending off a vibe that I dislike a lot of women, which women are "detecting". Now don't you think making a definite claim like that is silly, when nobody here has ever seen me interact with a woman or has ever spoken to any woman who has interactd with me to see what she thought of me? I love advice, and that is exactly what I'm seeking; if I didn't welcome other people's perspectives, I would have never created half the threads I've created in the last 4 yrs I've been an active member here. What I of course don't welcome and take seriously however, is when people make definite claims that are in solid stone, without any facts to back it up, because once again, nobody here has ever observed me in the field or has ever asked these women who have interacted with me, what they have thought of me. If people want to speculate possible reasons why I might be getting blown off, fine, afterall, that's what I want, but to pinpoint something in particular about me that's causing me to get blown off by all these women, without ever having observed any one of my interactions, is downright absurd and silly. That's all I'm saying.

Anyhow, I can see this thread is probably likely to go nowhere. If it carries on any further, it'll just go into 20 pages of reiterations, so I'll stop here. Sometimes I feel like I'm debating with women behind some of these screen names(and you all know what that's like), or maybe I really am? I'd never know. -- Peace

[8YearLurker]

Option 2) 'How Soon is Now' by the Smiths.



There's a club if you'd like to go
you could meet somebody who really loves you
so you go, and you stand on your own
and you leave on your own
and you go home, and you cry
and you want to die

:rockon:

[wait_out]

Bad vibe or not aside, there's still a lot of good advice here about having a better mindset and enjoying yourself more in your interactions with women. So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Die Hard]

Dude, I don't know where you've been your whole life, but I've got news for ya, just about every player here(and men in general) has the love/hate(I'd rather not use the word "hate" when describing my dislike for a lot of women, but I'll use it for purposes of this discussion, because it flows better) relationship thing going with women, feeling the exact feelings you describe up top in the beginning of your paragraph. I "want" them because as a human being, as a man, I obviously need women to function; to have a healthy, functioning sex life, the way I need food and water; I "dislike" a lot of them, because they do things for their own selfish gratification at your expense; and of course I want their "approval", for purposes of being able to attract and f*ck them. You're telling me most player's out there and men in general overall, don't feel this way?

The feelings you describe up top are all part of the game. Like it's been said before, the sexe's were meant to be complimentary to one another, not the other way around. We are technically rivals of one another; maybe not "rivals" in the way that we're typically familiar with, but men and women ARE rivals. We are just rivals on a whole other level.

And I couldn't be more at peace with myself. I love everything about myself. I love the man I've become(or am becoming). If I could make love to myself, I would, hahaha. You get what I'm saying though.

And one other thing you might want to make note of: you'll never know anyone here, so you might want to re-consider trying to think you've "figured a poster out" without knowing a single thing about him, without seeing him operate in the field, other than what he says here on a message board, because it is futile. An open mind goes a long way.


Okay, you're right. Please forget what I said about you and never think about it again.