HB8 and I went on a very casual first date a couple of weeks ago and everything went well. It wasn't heavy by any means (lunchtime on a class day lol), but had very good rapport and definitely clicked. She came off as a "nice girl", maybe a little shy, who has her act together and doesn't buy into the dumb games a lot of college girls tend to play. The date flew right by and everything seemed to break the right way. We soon after made plans to go bowling the next week. Unfortunately, she got hit with a class meeting that day and couldn't go. Fine, we'll do it the following week (which is now).

I called her today just to say hey (I've been busy and we hadn't talked in five or six days). We talked for a couple of minutes, everything was fine. As I get ready to hang up and make sure I'm picking her up at a certain time for the date, (walking, no cars on campus) she explains that we're going to need to move our date. She has a mega term project due next week (she explained the project to me...she wasn't kidding; she's complained about the project once or twice before on our date, so it's not some bs lie).

This sort of thing - even though knowing her, it's probably true - wasn't going to cut it with me. :nono: Remaining calm, I said to her that maybe she should just call me when she's free, since clearly she's too busy with things coming up at the last second to meet up. While I'm in the middle of delivering this, she broke into a big apology about "how [she's] been such a flake and doesn't feel good about it." Furthermore, she actually offers another time to meet up.

Her project is due a week from now. After her big presentation, she's going to want to celebrate at the local pub, and I'm invited. Sounds good to me. She then has an additional idea - one of her closer friends (who I've never met) is celebrating their birthday at the same pub tomorrow night, and - yep - I'm invited to that as well.

I decided that I'll stop by for a little while. I haven't seen this girl in almost two weeks (don't want the first date buzz to go away) and it seems she wants me around. Plus, I'm going to a school sporting event right down the street beforehand, so it's not tough for me to get there. One of my buddies, who is good with these sort of things, told me this is a very good opportunity. He believes I'll be like her "date" to this event, she can show me off to her friends, and I have the chance to get to know her friends better too. The caveat is that I shouldn't try isolating her from her friends tomorrow because it's their event (maybe next week though). Is he right?

I'm basically hoping the entire thing isn't a trap in which she is using me just for attention. Then again, if she didn't want me around, why is she inviting me to these things? I plan on setting the tempo once I walk through the door and making nice with/getting to know everyone while flirting a bit with her (KINO). If I feel uncomfortable or things aren't going well, I will leave. I will probably only stay there an hour at the most since I have things to do early the next day.

I didn't realize how long the post was, but does anything pop out at you here? It's a busy time for both of us due to midterms, papers, extra curriculars and projects like the one she has. The concerning part of course is her having to cancel our date for later this week. However, she invited me to this get-together (next week's too), which is a good sign.

Yes I know I overthink things with girls, I just wanted to know if there was anything in all this time-changing and plan-changing that I'm missing - for example, the fact she had to take a rain check on our one-on-one date again and now I'm going to this event tonight. From reading advice on this board, I know that early on, you want the dates to be just you and her, not any sort of group thing. I'm not sure this is a "date," but I'd be seeing her.

One thing I am a little afraid of is the freeze-out. Maybe it's because of things this past summer. Girl I liked back then and her friends would invite me and a couple of my friends to a local bar. When we got there, the girls froze me out. They treated the other guys great, but ignored me and I did not like the horrible experience. "Never again," I said. This girl I like now is a lot different than the girl during the summer, but I feel I still need to be on guard, as I'm entering a similar environment tonight.

Going into this thing tonight, my goal is to have fun, take it for what it's worth, get to know her friends and flirt with HB a little as well, and don't overstay. In no way do I want to be "just a friend." I'm gunning for her, meaning I want to act like a boyfriend, not just a tag-a-long.

Inviting you to her friend's party is considerate, but not ideal. If you DO go, there is a very good chance you two won't see each other the next night; as she's just inviting you because she feels bad about her "flaking".

Inviting you to her celebration, when she's also invited others, tells you she is either not confortable with just the two of you, or she doesn't want you looking at it as a "date", as she's not interested in you that way.

Either scenario, in my opinion can be either a hit or miss. If I was you, I would just wait until she can meet me, one on one. You are going tonight, with the hopes of seeing her tonight, and tomorrow, in her environment, only with the hopes of getting her to agree to a "second date" type of one on one. Too much work just for a follow up get together. I smell low interest from her part.

Seems like your frame here is that you're just happy to see her and will accomodate and take any crumbs she throws at you, for a chance to see her again. Shows you have a lot more interest in her and are too accomodating. You are at a disadvantage there. She is making YOU jum through hoops. She might be the type who needs everybody's approval and approval of you in order to make simple decisions. So, to answer your questions, YES THERE IS A TEST THERE, SOMEWHERE.

Not only that; even if she is not intentionally setting the scenario to test you, she will view everything you do and how you act, how you pursue her, how her friends see you, as a test and judge you in her environment, and not on the one on one get together that you want.

Gangster Of Love said:

Inviting you to her friend's party is considerate, but not ideal. If you DO go, there is a very good chance you two won't see each other the next night; as she's just inviting you because she feels bad about her "flaking".

Inviting you to her celebration, when she's also invited others, tells you she is either not confortable with just the two of you, or she doesn't want you looking at it as a "date", as she's not interested in you that way.

Either scenario, in my opinion can be either a hit or miss. If I was you, I would just wait until she can meet me, one on one. You are going tonight, with the hopes of seeing her tonight, and tomorrow, in her environment, only with the hopes of getting her to agree to a "second date" type of one on one. Too much work just for a follow up get together. I smell low interest from her part.

Seems like your frame here is that you're just happy to see her and will accomodate and take any crumbs she throws at you, for a chance to see her again. Shows you have a lot more interest in her and are too accomodating. You are at a disadvantage there. She is making YOU jum through hoops. She might be the type who needs everybody's approval and approval of you in order to make simple decisions. So, to answer your questions, YES THERE IS A TEST THERE, SOMEWHERE.

Not only that; even if she is not intentionally setting the scenario to test you, she will view everything you do and how you act, how you pursue her, how her friends see you, as a test and judge you in her environment, and not on the one on one get together that you want.

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Thanks. I don't plan on seeing her tomorrow (actually works out because I have a lot going on that day regardless), but aside from that, I see where you're coming from.

Like you infer, I'm not really high on the circumstances here. Obviously, the date is more ideal. When we had our first date, that got pushed two days back as well, so you can take that as either, A.) She keeps "feeling bad," or B.) She actually is really busy with work this week. I have midterms this week, so I'm tied up myself.

In the past, girls who flake won't even try to set up plans. Sometimes, they don't even respond to your calls or texts. That's what makes this one thought-provoking. She keeps suggesting other times to meet, but as you said, maybe the interest isn't really there right now.

While seeing her is a positive, I'm going in there hoping to see how things really are. In fact, the pub scene will actually help with this. Over the summer, a girl I worked with seemed interested in me...but when our department went to the bar afterward (a social setting), she basically ignored me while giving everyone else attention, and I decided to move on. If a similar thing goes down tonight, I am heading back to my place and will move on. Disappointing, perhaps. A catastrophe, no way.

Like I do with anything, I plan on bringing my A game and seeing where that goes.

Go, have a good time. Be well dressed, confident, smell good, and be cool. Let her show you off, and (hopefully) you can PLAYFULLY flirt with her friends or partymates. Social value. Dont fawn all over her. Be fun to be around.
Then... dont call her for 4-5 days. Let her miss you. See where this gets you.

Joe Stud said:

Go, have a good time. Be well dressed, confident, smell good, and be cool. Let her show you off, and (hopefully) you can PLAYFULLY flirt with her friends or partymates. Social value. Dont fawn all over her. Be fun to be around.
Then... dont call her for 4-5 days. Let her miss you. See where this gets you.

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Alright well this "date/get together" already happened, so I can tell you what's up. Overall, it went "alright," not really amazingly great, but I made sure to make no serious mistakes either.

Seeing a girl at a LOUD bar...not my area of excellence. For starters, I'm not a smooth dancer. At all. Sure I try, but it's not pretty. The positive here is that I can make fun of myself and I was able to get my girl to laugh. More importantly, it's tough to do much. It was her best friend's birthday, so I'm not going to be able to isolate her. Next week, she's going just to celebrate her big project being done, so I may be better off then.

POSITIVES: I got to know her close girl friends. Sure, we're not going to be ultra-close buddies right away, but I was outgoing and got to know everyone a little bit and portrayed myself positively. There were a few guys there, but it was clear I was the guy called in by the girl I'm pursuing. I was able to get my girl to smile a bit as well and I had a good time overall. My physique helped in that any guy trying to hit on my girl bounced once I (politely) introduced myself to him. Overall it went smoothly; no giant accomplishments, but no screw-ups either. Oh yeah...definitely did some more kino. Every time I talked to her, the kino was there. Once she knew I was on my way over, she made sure to let me know where in the bar she was so I could find her.

NEGATIVES: I guess this first one isn't a real negative, but because I was getting to know her friends, I wasn't isolating on her. That's better for either one-on-one dates or when it's not her best friend's birthday. Everyone else clearly knew each other already, so I had to work at getting to know everyone there. It's something I will continue to build on. She is also surprisingly shy (the bar isn't best for her either, even if she's having a good time there). It wasn't just with me, she's not going to be the one who starts dancing between her and her friends. She's not real loud, as some of her friends are. She's real cool, but I'm the more gregarious of the two.

Moving forward, I figure I'll send a text or call her on Thursday just to tell her I had a good time. This weekend is a little tricky for me, meaning next Tuesday may be the next get-together. Now would something like this work?: I'll go "celebrate" with her next Tuesday...as long as we go on a one-on-one later that week. The group stuff is nice, but it's not something I want right now.

Wait 'till the one one one, unless she brings it up; even if she brings it up, I suggest you don't go, there isn't anything new she could be learning about you in that environment than she hasn't already, it only prolongs that one on one. You already got any benefit (brownie points) that you'll ever get by going on her turf and going a long with her plans and her friends.

If she's into you, she will want to get together with you, one on one. Also, being busy with something else will suggest that you are not just an orbiter who jumps at every opportunity just to see her. I think you have the perfect opportunity to tell her you can't meet her tuesday, but would be available after (insert any other day).

Don't get me wrong. You did very good in her environment. Good work. A lot of broads will test you and/or will judge you based on how you behave in their turf. Even if they don't do it on purpose, your actions and actions will be judged. Now you are in a great position to suggest to get together, just the two of you. If she has enough interest, she will say yes or have a counter offer if she can't. Only go to these "group dates" if you truly want to, not with the frame of that being the only way you'll see her.

And...she's next'ed! Although I feel I was doing decently well so far (I hadn't dated in awhile, I felt like a rookie), apparently it didn't make the cut. On the bright side, I got some good experience out of it.

I called her today to set up something a few days from now. She was in class when I called, so a short while later she called me back. From the moment we said hi, I knew it was the end. There was no juice. I opened with a "cute" C&F joke...nothing - normally she'd laugh. I tried to engage her in some sort of small conversation, something she's usually receptive to...got one word answers today. Because I wanted to make it quick, I mentioned my idea for our next date, a movie/dinner combo (yes I know it's cliche, but I wanted a premier early-on-in-the-dating evening date).

When I mentioned the movie, she said, "I'll get back to you on that." When I mentioned the restaurant I'd like to take her to..."Would this be a one-on-one or a group thing?" Right then I knew this wasn't happening. When I said it's "just me and you," she told me she is, "kinda seeing somebody." I wrapped up the call and that was that, just a "cool, I gotta get going, I'll see ya." I don't plan on calling again lol.

Now does she actually have a bf? I have no idea. I would have assumed a lunch date + the bar thing would imply that I see her as more than a friend. Or maybe not. I can't say I'm shocked; perhaps this is why I'm over it already. I was the one always making the calls (she didn't start the calls once), I talk a lot more than her, I kino'ed more than she did although she's generally a bit shy. The lunch date went well, but she flaked the first time and we moved it two days later; we were supposed to have a bowling date on a Wednesday but replaced it with the bar thing for the night before. We had a lot in common, but I never felt any sparks.

I did have a couple of questions just for my own awareness and self-improvement going forward:
-Could BOTH of these events have been in the friend-zone? I didn't think a girl goes on a lunch date with a guy who is only a friend (who she doesn't know really well and had met only once before).
-Perhaps her friends from the bar didn't like me? I thought I had a good showing, but maybe they felt we didn't click. Maybe something I said that's normally nothing offended one of them for whatever reason (nothing I can think of though).
-I don't think there is a bf. Sure, she's a nice person, has been honest otherwise, but her actions don't mix. We went on a one-on-one lunch date. Why would a one-on-one dinner not work? How can I call a girl out on this in the future?

The Comeback Kid said:

-Could BOTH of these events have been in the friend-zone? I didn't think a girl goes on a lunch date with a guy who is only a friend (who she doesn't know really well and had met only once before).

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Both of the events were very "non-sexual" or "asexual", as in, there was no "dating" or romantic interest stated or implied. That is why you want to initiate the casual touching and/or the obvious romantic/sexual interest very early on. You had a chance, although apparently a very small window, to show your interest and press her a little bit and find out how interested she was in you.

The Comeback Kid said:

-Perhaps her friends from the bar didn't like me? I thought I had a good showing, but maybe they felt we didn't click. Maybe something I said that's normally nothing offended one of them for whatever reason (nothing I can think of though).

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Perhaps they did or didn't, who knows, who cares. It is very possible and very likely one or more of them is interested in her or one or more are friends with a somebody who is interested in her. Did you tell or imply to any of them you were interested in this girl? Not that it matters now, but it was never really a good environment for you to be at.

The Comeback Kid said:

-I don't think there is a bf. Sure, she's a nice person, has been honest otherwise, but her actions don't mix. We went on a one-on-one lunch date. Why would a one-on-one dinner not work? How can I call a girl out on this in the future?

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I don't think there is a boyfriend either. "I'm kinda seeing someone" is the oldest line in the book. That is so vague, and ambigous (sp) and really doesn't say much, besides, "I might be seeing or interested in someone else, but I am definitely NOT interested in seeing you further, so please don't ask me to go out on a date again."No biggie, as you noted, plus you have enough results or lack thereof, to look into what you need to work on and be better prepared to handle the next time it comes up, as it definitely will.

The one-on-one lunch date wasn't stimulating enough to peak her interest. Either you were too predictable, too typical, did not create and spark more attraction or all of the above. Did you pay for her lunch? That already is not a good frame, specially if you are not or don't feel experienced in these type of situations.

Don't make such a big deal out of a "lunch date"; that was no real date, at least in her mind. Think about it, lunch, in the day time, is very non-threatening and non-sexual/romantic. It is play it safe. Doesn't have all those expectations and connotation that a "dinner date" has. Dinner date puts more pressure on both parties. Lunch date, less at stake. A lunch date is as casual as a "coffee date", only more expensive. Both work, but only if you know what and how to do it.

How can you call a girl out on this in the future? You don't. You pre-empt it by NOT inviting a girl to a "lunch date", until you have at least kissed her or better yet, until you know exactly what to do to escalate things.

From now on, only low key/profile "first get-togethers" or "meet and greets". None of these lunch or dinner "dates". Coffee, a drink, an ice cream, etc. are the only things you should fork a few bucks for with a girl who hasn't proven herself to you.

You did very good in recognizing her low interest and knowing how to exit gracefully and with your dignity in tact. No big loss, only a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

You framed everything as a very traditional courtship style interaction. This sets a needless and antiquated series of events that are in themself predictable and quasi asexual (I've been there). My advice? Stop with the dates and labels and go for the hookup right off the bat in the future. When you asked her on that dinner date it made your intentions uncomfortably clear. Planting a big kiss on a girl also makes your intentions clear but it is masculine/action based rather than verbal, shows you have a pair, and has a chance of getting her to feel swept away instead of following that old road of "just you and me... At a restaurant!". Hope this helps as it's hard to type all this on my phone but I had to reply as I used to be in similar spots. Good luck!