Ok, I kind of give up. I'm doing something wrong with women and don't know what.

Kal0051 · Aug 15, 2009

Came to this realization today when talking to a girl I know. I was telling her about the latest girl that flaked on me, and she asked me what I'm doing to drive these women off. And I have no idea for the life of me. Of course her advice was to stop looking for women and just let one come to me (like that works, and I know, I've tried in the past).

It's entirely possible that these girls were never interested in me other than a friend and when they figured out I was interested in them they ran away. But really, I know I'm a good looking guy so it's not possible that no girl is interested in me. I know guys that aren't that good looking, have ****ty jobs (like work for min wage once or twice a week) and they have amazing looking girlfriends.

I don't know what else to try. Don't have anyone who can tell me what I'm doing wrong. And not that it matters but I'm not interested in club game (partly because I don't like clubs, and partly because I work late every Fri and Sat night). I really need to get a handle on this, because I'm just wasting my time approaching girls right now. Any ideas would be very appreciated. Thanks.

Jitterbug · Aug 15, 2009

Just based off what you've written in the last thread, you're coming off as a little too eager & desperate for a date.

Your female friend has half of a good advice: stop looking for women. When you're in a drought and desperate, you're only going to do worse if you look like a hungry wolf on the hunt. Sit back & relax, don't TRY to pick up or get dates. Give yourself a little break from the Game for a couple of weeks & get busy with sports or other hobbies.

horaholic · Aug 15, 2009

From what I've noticed form your posts from the very beginning, is you get in the friendzone very quick. I also noticed you were always hanging around girls with BF's, and had a lot of female friends, you were trying to date. You're a guy, and should be hanging out with your bro's, not ho's. You end up as these girls girlfriend.

What you need to do is not do anything that can be construed as 'friends' with these girls. Make your intentions known from the beginning, and always be sexual, if jokingly. Dont be friends with them, and dont do things for them, and dont 'listen' to them vent or anything. you can have female aquaintances, bu tnot friends unless they have been your acquaintance for years

Basically, adjust your actions towards them. Dont be nice, friendly guy.

Allurre · Aug 15, 2009

I think I know what's happening.

1. You're building the right interest level off the bat. What's so special about you beneath your looks? Are you ambitious? do you have goals? are you driven to pursue a specific dream?

2. What makes a woman want to be around you? Can you answer that? What kind of emotional fun can you render them to?

3. Stop chasing p*sssy. Seriously. Live your life. Pursue your dreams (hopefully not getting laid). Women will become a bi-product of your journey to personal growth.

comic_relief · Aug 15, 2009

the best advice that works the best for me is just try to make women your friends instead of potential lovers.

Why?

1.) If you try to make women your friend, then it disengages their b!tch shields.
2.) It lets you relax, and become the chooser if the women jump through the hoops.
3.) You come off as less threatening.
4.) Hell you might make a new friend
5.) You come off as more relaxed because you aren't in the initial meet for sex/fwb/gf.

You are in it for a friend and eventually if she impresses you enough, then you can go after her. ONLY if she impresses you enough, and looks should never be the sole indicator.

comic_relief

Igetit! · Aug 15, 2009

If you really want to improve your dating life,and I mean SERIOUSLY,then do this...

Give us a COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of you basic approach structure. And I mean a complete,thorough breakdowm,EVERYTHING.

Tell us...

What you say when you approach.
How the girls respond.
When (to the best of your knowledge) do problems seem to show up? During the approach? After the approach,but before the first date? after the first date?

Just tell us when.

How do you "game" girls? What is your personal way of attempting to gain a girl's interest?

If you seriously want to correct this problem,then tell us everything...from the moment you say hi (or whatever) to her,until she blows you off.

If this happen repeatedly,then it isn't a coincidence.

Answer these questions as accurately as you can.

Kal0051 · Aug 15, 2009

horaholic said:
From what I've noticed form your posts from the very beginning, is you get in the friendzone very quick. I also noticed you were always hanging around girls with BF's, and had a lot of female friends, you were trying to date. You're a guy, and should be hanging out with your bro's, not ho's. You end up as these girls girlfriend.

What you need to do is not do anything that can be construed as 'friends' with these girls. Make your intentions known from the beginning, and always be sexual, if jokingly. Dont be friends with them, and dont do things for them, and dont 'listen' to them vent or anything. you can have female aquaintances, bu tnot friends unless they have been your acquaintance for years

Basically, adjust your actions towards them. Dont be nice, friendly guy.

I only have 3 good female friends (and one of them is gay). But you are right that I do have a lot of female acquaintances that have boyfriends (I call them friends but they're really not), but isn't it said a lot around here that any hot girl will always have some guy in her life (whether it be a boyfriend, fvck buddy, etc).

As for making my intentions known, I used to be really bad at that and am pretty sure I'm getting better. I'm always trying to throw a bit of sexuality into my interactions with girls (especially with single girls, though I do flirt with girls with boyfriends too, just don't expect anything out of it).

Kal0051 · Aug 15, 2009

Igetit! said:
If you really want to improve your dating life,and I mean SERIOUSLY,then do this...

Give us a COMPLETE BREAKDOWN of you basic approach structure. And I mean a complete,thorough breakdowm,EVERYTHING.

Tell us...

What you say when you approach.
How the girls respond.
When (to the best of your knowledge) do problems seem to show up? During the approach? After the approach,but before the first date? after the first date?

Just tell us when.

How do you "game" girls? What is your personal way of attempting to gain a girl's interest?

If you seriously want to correct this problem,then tell us everything...from the moment you say hi (or whatever) to her,until she blows you off.

If this happen repeatedly,then it isn't a coincidence.

Answer these questions as accurately as you can.

My problem isn't with approaching, I don't have a problem there for the most part. Now, it's not like I go out and have a approaching "mission", all I do is if I see a cute girl I'll go talk to her and if I think she worth getting to know further I'll get her number. And most of the time they'll give it to me, plus I've never been given a fake number. Sure, sometimes they shut me down but that's mostly at clubs when they have their defenses up (and it's usually at the start of the interaction that this happens, like Me: "Hi", Her: "Sorry, I have a boyfriend").

My problem is after getting their number they either won't agree to a day2 or they flake in some way (this happens most of the time, if you need an example check out my last post, usually happens something like that). And your right, this does happen repeatedly so it can't be the girl, it has to be me (that's why my friend said what she said).

Meh, I'm just annoyed. I'm pretty happy in the rest of my life but would love to fix this just so I can date like everyone else (lol, I do get dates and lays occasionally but the girl usually flakes at some point).

Maxtro · Aug 15, 2009

comic_relief said:
the best advice that works the best for me is just try to make women your friends instead of potential lovers.

Why?

1.) If you try to make women your friend, then it disengages their b!tch shields.
2.) It lets you relax, and become the chooser if the women jump through the hoops.
3.) You come off as less threatening.
4.) Hell you might make a new friend
5.) You come off as more relaxed because you aren't in the initial meet for sex/fwb/gf.

You are in it for a friend and eventually if she impresses you enough, then you can go after her. ONLY if she impresses you enough, and looks should never be the sole indicator.

comic_relief

Are you serious? Cause I have been doing it this way for years and it has a 100% failure rate. I know you get girls so I think that you unintentionally forgot to add something to your post. Cause right now, it's a perfect description on how to buy a one way ticket into the friendzone.

Kal0051,
Please display your age. It makes it much easier to comment.

How and where are you meeting these women? Through friends or cold approaches? Do the girls seem like they are having a good time when you get their number?

Since you said that you often can't arrange a day 2 or they flake, the problem might be your phone game. Can you give an example on how your phone conversations go?

BTW in case somebody is wondering, my goal is to ask the "right questions" then after Kal0051 answers somebody more knowledgeable can give the proper feedback.

comic_relief · Aug 15, 2009

Maxtro said:
Are you serious? Cause I have been doing it this way for years and it has a 100% failure rate. I know you get girls so I think that you unintentionally forgot to add something to your post. Cause right now, it's a perfect description on how to buy a one way ticket into the friendzone.

Hmmm... *thinks* hmmmm.... *thinks really hard*

You are in it for a friend and eventually if she impresses you enough, then you can go after her. ONLY if she impresses you enough, and looks should never be the sole indicator.

Maybe when I said this means and is a nicer of way of saying "MAKE A FVCKEN MOVE!!!" After she impresses you. Also treat yourself as a sexualized man. Too many people that I know try to take this advice as "Turn off all sexualized energy." I treat my friends with a form of sexualized energy.

Most people that try to accomplish becoming friends with a girl just turn that energy off. I never do that, but yes, MAKE A FVCKEN MOVE!

DOes that help?

- comic_relief

Maxtro · Aug 15, 2009

comic_relief said:
Maybe when I said this means and is a nicer of way of saying "MAKE A FVCKEN MOVE!!!" After she impresses you. Also treat yourself as a sexualized man. Too many people that I know try to take this advice as "Turn off all sexualized energy." I treat my friends with a form of sexualized energy.

Most people that try to accomplish becoming friends with a girl just turn that energy off. I never do that, but yes, MAKE A FVCKEN MOVE!

DOes that help?

- comic_relief

Heh that's a bit better.

I would have never interpreted, "her impressing you" to "MAKE A FVCKEN MOVE!!!"

The impressing me part made no since at all because the only thing it takes for a girl to impress me is if she's cute and has a nice body and that she's not a total bitch.

Also treat yourself as a sexualized man. Too many people that I know try to take this advice as "Turn off all sexualized energy." I treat my friends with a form of sexualized energy.

That is what I was asking about. The sexual energy is the missing link and everything will fail without it. Only very recently have I started to give off some sexual energy.

The next step is being able to master the energy, knowing when and how to use it. That I am still trying to figure out.

comic_relief · Aug 15, 2009

Maxtro said:
That is what I was asking about. The sexual energy is the missing link and everything will fail without it. Only very recently have I started to give off some sexual energy.

The next step is being able to master the energy, knowing when and how to use it. That I am still trying to figure out.

whoops, I forgot to add something about the sexualized energy.

I usually make that energy known during the first meeting (albeit much more subtle) and after the third or so meeting a much more blunt look into that sexualized energy.

This is the way that I turned two of my ex-gf of two years friends into FWB's instead of just keeping them as friends

. Comic_relief approved

if she impresses you enough, then you can go after her.

That is where I mean make a damn move.

- comic_relief

Igetit! · Aug 15, 2009

Kal0051 said:
My problem is after getting their number they either won't agree to a day2 or they flake in some way (this happens most of the time, if you need an example check out my last post,

You say that your problem is after getting the number,but I disagree.

After you get a girl's number,when you call her or try to set up a date,that's when it seems she flakes,right?

You don't understand.

You seem to think that you've "won" or accomplished something just because you got the number. Many,MANY TIMES,a mistake you make in one stage won't show up until a later one. Most likely,you're unknowing making a mistake during the approach,but the effects of it don't show up until later,when you try to set up a date.

I went back and checked your last thread,the one about what you should do if a girl stops responding to you messages. You told me to have a look at it if I needed an example of how you try to get a girl's interest.

That won't work. What you wrote in that thread doesn't answer the questions I asked you in my previous reply.

All that thread does is tell me the aftermath of you approaching her.

All I can do is ask the same questions over again until you decide to answer them DIRECTLY.

Can you give an example of how you approach a girl?

You're out in the world,minding your own business,then you see a girl you think is attractive and you decide to apporach her. Ok...now,WHAT DO YOU DO?

What do you say to the girl? You say you have no problem getting a girl's number. That's fine,but her going out with you is influenced by what goes on in that initial interaction.

Dating a girl has stages. You seem to think just because you got the number that you've got the girl,too.

Not so.

Approaching and getting the number is like phase 1. Going out on a date is like phase 2,and so on. What you do in one phase can determine the success or difficulty in a latter phase.

You didn't hit a homerun just because you got the number. Yeah,you got a hit,but you still need to round the bases.

It'd be sooo much easier to help you out if you'd simply give a play by play of how an interaction generally goes when you approach a girl.

And when I say play by play,I mean something like this.

Stiqqi · Aug 15, 2009

comic_relief said:
whoops, I forgot to add something about the sexualized energy.

I usually make that energy known during the first meeting (albeit much more subtle) and after the third or so meeting a much more blunt look into that sexualized energy.

This is the way that I turned two of my ex-gf of two years friends into FWB's instead of just keeping them as friends . Comic_relief approved

That is where I mean make a damn move.

- comic_relief

I agree with this.

ketostix · Aug 15, 2009

You just need the x-factor Maxtro

.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1385929&postcount=1

This post was inspired in part by posts relating a story of the poster knowing a guy who has no discernable advantage to the poster, e.g., height, looks, "game", etc doing much better at attracting women. The other guy might actually be at a disadvantage in almost every noticable way, e.g, in height, fitness, style, game etc but still have much better success with women. And to also get to the nitty gritty of what really causes attraction to happen/causes atraction to not happen.

Attraction opens the door and is basically essential to getting compliance from girls and for getting anything you want from them. We can't say attraction is random and totally subjective because we all know that some guys have much more success constantly with women and the opposite is true for another guy know matter how hard he tries or what way he tries to go about attracting females. If attraction was random and totally subjective then one guy wouldn't constantly have more success than another would.

To say well attraction is dependent on looks and personality is too broad and nondescriptive, as is to just run down the list of every quality a guy could have that should attract women. Because we all know guys who are lacking in many of those areas and still do better than a guy who is lacking in few if any of those qualities.

Now that I've set the stage for my argument, I want to try to come to the realization of what factor is the fundamental factor that causes attraction or lacking it causes attraction to be very hard to get. Most people conclude it's confidence, but confidence is so subjectively interpreted. I would argue that this X-factor is either having at least above average facial symmetry or having good facial expressions. Maybe both are required, for example, at least slightly above average facial symmetry plus good facial expressiveness. But the issue is neither are easily to conscously realize or change for the guy. It's something a woman notices almost subconcously and responds to basically emotionally.

Let me give you a good example. What are people interested and like? They like actors. Actors tend to be very symetrical or photogenic and they are very expressive. Their expression communicate moods very clearly. Even if you turn the sound off you can still see the appeal. At one time movies were even silent yet still entertaining.

This also goes to idea in NLP that the other person models and feels emotions based on nonverbal cues and body language. And the rule of thumb that communication is 80% nonverbal. And the, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." Now I know none of this is exactly new but the idea that attraction is mostly due to having "good" facial expression and facial symmetry I think is. And the idea that nothing you say or do nor any game will overcome a lacking in these areas.

I know there's more to attracting and closing girls but I think this is the necessary foundation that is needed. I think anyone who is having trouble with pick up needs to basically learn how to be expressive like a good actor. I realize there's not much you can do about facial symmetry however.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maxtro · Aug 15, 2009

Not meaning to hijack Kal's thread, I think I'm starting to understand what is happening with me. With my soft looks, lack of sexual energy and that I've had older women pursue me, I think I give off the impression of innocence. This may explain why I repel girls my age yet I'm kind of cougar bait.

While I don't mind having sex with older women, I'm really drawn to the younger "innocent" 18-23ish girls.

LOL now I'm wondering if I should get some tattoos, and a motorcycle.

I don't think the problem is my facial expressiveness. It may be that I'm giving off the wrong non-verbals.

What are some examples of subtle sexual energy and then being more blunt about it?

Kal0051 · Aug 15, 2009

Maxtro said:
Kal0051,
Please display your age. It makes it much easier to comment.

I'm 24, even though I look like I'm 17-18. It's a pain sometimes, especially since I have really young girls hitting on me all the time (like 15-17, and I'm not interested in girls younger than 19).

To Igetit:

I guess from right, I didn't answer your question. But since I don't write field reports I don't have many details about any specific approaches. I do kinda remember how I met a girl I went out with a few times so I'll tell you that one.

I went to a club to meet up with a couple of friends. Got there, friends weren't there yet, so grabbed a beer at the bar. I happened to be facing the entrance when 2 girls came in (one was a hot asian girl, hb8). Friends came in right behind her, so met up with them, figured I'll see the girl around, no rush. Had some beers with friends, then went off on own and socialized (danced with at least a dozen girls, opened multiple sets, got the "I got a boyfriend" response quite a few times).

Grabbed a beer at one point, and went off to the side when 2 guys started talking to me. Turns out they came with that hot asian girl, she came and we started talking. She'd seen me dancing with some other girls and asked if I was there to pick up girls. I just laughed and said I was there with friends and just having fun and dancing with girls. She grabs my hand and tells me she'll help me find a girl (umm, ok). That doesn't happen, she just brings me to the dance floor and starts grinding on me.

One of my friends finds me when I'm dancing with her and tells me we have to go. Having no idea what he's talking about I excuse myself and see what's up (turns out one of my friends got loaded, started a fight and now he and a few other friends were getting kicked out). Whatever, we threw him in a cab and I went back in. Looked for the asian girl, couldn't find her.

It was getting late, realize lots of girls are leaving with guys they met so I go grab my coat to leave. At the coat check I bump into the asian girl, we get chatting, I take her to grab some fast food. After food we're chilling in my car, making out. She gets a call from one of her girlfriends, she says she needs to go meet up with her friends (one of her friends was supposed to be staying with her that night). We exchange numbers, and I bring her back to her friends.

I went out with her a few times after that, but must have acted too eager because after the third time she told me she was seeing someone (but not dating). And it turned out it was a guy that we had previously made out in front of ( the second time we met up after meeting her was at a club with our friends). I realize how I ****ed up with her so no mystery there, but hopefully that's enough detail for you (maybe too much, lol).

Poonani Maker · Aug 15, 2009

I know this may sound kinda crazy but, DO something selfless for a girl you are NOT interested in. Just do nice things for the girls you are NOT interested in, even if other girls hate you for it, OR even the girl you do the nice selfless thing for, like driving her somewhere. Next, be Mean as fvck to the girl you want to fvck. Show these girls the difference between who you wanna fvck and who YOU wanna be "friends" with. Let Them see the contrast. You will be their focal point then.

nismo-4 · Aug 16, 2009

comic_relief said:
the best advice that works the best for me is just try to make women your friends instead of potential lovers.

It's advice like this that generates more failure topics posted here! Make a woman your friend then try to get laid later? WTF? You'll be in the friendzone!

Why?

1.) If you try to make women your friend, then it disengages their b!tch shields.

Nope, they make it stronger.

2.) It lets you relax, and become the chooser if the women jump through the hoops.

You need to get the girl interested first.

3.) You come off as less threatening.

You come off as asexual. Not good.

4.) Hell you might make a new friend

And that's exactly why we have 40 year old virgins.

5.) You come off as more relaxed because you aren't in the initial meet for sex/fwb/gf.

Goddammmit! Women know you wanna get in their pants. They know this sh*t. Why not let your masculinities be known. BTW women know within 5 seconds of meeting you whether they wanna f**k you or not.

You are in it for a friend and eventually if she impresses you enough, then you can go after her. ONLY if she impresses you enough, and looks should never be the sole indicator.

Once again proves why there are so many damn virgins over 40 these days.

comic_relief

Read between the lines. Red text. Understand it.

To the OP, you should not be asking women for advice about women. They only tell you what they think they want. They'll say a nice guy who got a mansion and a Mercedes, yet they'll go behind you and get railed by a guy who owns a Honda Civic and a 1 bedroom apartment and treats her like sh*t.

That thing she told you about stop trying to meet a chick and let a woman come to you is the gayest sh*t I ever heard. Women don't come to men unless they're rich, famous, or attractive. If you're neither of these, then YOU MUST APPROACH. I know it's tough but you gotta do it.

Igetit!, Allure, Horaholic, Poonani Maker, and Jitterbug had the best answers.

I could possibly solve this case if you had typed out your general convo's and other moves you make on these girls.

Kal0051 · Aug 16, 2009

nismo-4 said:
Read between the lines. Red text. Understand it.

To the OP, you should not be asking women for advice about women. They only tell you what they think they want. They'll say a nice guy who got a mansion and a Mercedes, yet they'll go behind you and get railed by a guy who owns a Honda Civic and a 1 bedroom apartment and treats her like sh*t.

That thing she told you about stop trying to meet a chick and let a woman come to you is the gayest sh*t I ever heard. Women don't come to men unless they're rich, famous, or attractive. If you're neither of these, then YOU MUST APPROACH. I know it's tough but you gotta do it.

Igetit!, Allure, Horaholic, Poonani Maker, and Jitterbug had the best answers.

I could possibly solve this case if you had typed out your general convo's and other moves you make on these girls.

Who said I asked a woman for advice? If your talking about my friend's comment, I wasn't asking her for advice, was just telling her why I changed my plans for that night. I have no intention of following any girl's advice, at best it's some passive **** (like waiting and a girl will fall into my lap), at worst it's some crazy afc action.

I don't have pre-planned convos that I use, I let the convo flow naturally. The convos could be about anything, though I tend to keep them short (I try to get meet ups). I try to use humor and try to convey that I'm interested in them as more than friends. The last real interaction I had with the girl who flaked recently was a text convo we had when we were drinking with our respective friends. I told her that I was gonna have a killer hangover the next day and might need a cute nurse to take care of me (she's a nurse and was trying to tell me hangover remedies). She seemed to think it was funny (and apparently made her blush). After that quick text convo I tried to set up the meet, she agreed, and haven't heard from her.

There's not many "moves" I can use when I can't get the girls to meet up. I just try to be a fun, cool guy.

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Ok, I kind of give up. I'm doing something wrong with women and don't know what.

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