The biggest thing I've found about the PUA world is that so much of the focus is on how to get women attracted to you. The entire theory, and most of the suggestions/advice, revolve around that one concept. And on the surface, it seems like a legitimate question to ask.

But I think that the core issue behind it is what turns a lot of guys (the one's that you all call "manginas" or "AFCs") to this material. Because, even though the average "nice guy" is actually manipulative at his core (doing "nice" things for validation, not because they are actually "nice"), they still aren't manipulative enough to embrace an overtly manipulative philosophy about attraction.

The reason I call this philosophy manipulative, is because the ideas are to take men and force them through a certain mold, to use certain psychological cues to their advantage, and to take control of the frame of the interaction. Those seem like reasonable goals. But at the end of the day, that philosophy only takes a manipulative nice guy and turns him into a manipulative jerk. No real change takes place here, other than the intimidation of beauty is now gone from that nice guy.

But at his core, he's still the same manipulative, insecure person.

Here's my suggestion (and I am fully aware that this isn't something profound or new, but I think it bears repeating and deserves more attention than it gets).....

Instead of focusing on how to attract a girl to you, what would happen if you, instead, focused more on how to make YOURSELF more attractive to her? Or better yet, what would happen if your main focus was to become more attractive....period. To all those people you interact with.

Instead of worrying about certain actions you need to take (negs, DHVs, etc.) to get her to respond to you, wouldn't it be far more empowering to focus on how to make YOURSELF a more attractive person?

Forget about the specifics of PUA and focus in on this perspective. When you become a more attractive person, you will exhibit attractive behaviors naturally. Your perspective will also change. When you become more attractive, you will value yourself as a person more. That value that you give to yourself will allow you to learn when to set and maintain boundaries, will show you how to succeed not just with women, but in all areas of your life.

But more importantly, it will teach you to shed off that insecure persona, take off that mask you've been wearing, and become more authentic in your interactions with people. This authenticity is what will attract people to you.

So, I urge you, as a fellow Don Juan, to change your frame. Forget about how to attract HER and become more attractive YOURSELF. And I'll promise you that you will meet with results in all areas of your life.

I like your perspective on this,

As for the non-attractive men out there,(even with attractive lifestyles and personalities) this will not get them far though. It could be very costly, and maybe even in the end he may not get the woman.

With "manipulative" (I'm using that very loosely) you can work at what makes her attraction spark towards you, and get what you want in the end as well as her wants.

My .02 cents.

GlennCoCo said:

As for the non-attractive men out there, this will not get them far though. It could be very costly, and maybe even in the end he may not get the woman.

Click to expand...

See, I think that everybody is attractive at their core. It's their beliefs that are holding them back from asserting that attractiveness. So even the "unattractive" men out there CAN be attractive by becoming more authentic.

For example, the guy who sits at home playing WoW all day long and isn't meeting people is doing so because of some belief he holds, not because he is unattractive or playing WoW is unattractive. By BECOMING more authentic, realizing his own personal power, and focusing on being more attractive, his beliefs will change, reducing the amount of time spent on the game.

I think that if you read this DJ/PUA stuff long enough, you'll find that ultimately it's about self-improvement....and not only in the area of sex/romance. There's a ton of info out there including a lot of crap. But there is a lot of good solid advice too. If you study it long enough, you can learn to separate the gold from the junk. Really DJing boils down to self-improvement for men.

For me, personally, I started reading up on this stuff because I just wanted to get laid or get a girlfriend. But along the way, it became a quest to improve my life in general. I'd think that it's the same for a lot of aspiring "DJs"

Excellent entry. That's exactly what most men are missing out on... the part where you should channel you efforts on increasing your mating value + or personal attractive qualities instead of merely trying to 'attract' women.

I don’t think getting “her more attracted to you” or “making yourself more attractive” are the ultimate frames.

The ultimate base frame is... “she has to meet my standards”.

Ironically, you will find this also makes you more attractive in her eyes. A true DJ is already attractive, it’s up to her to meet his standard. If she does not like you, if she disrespects you, rejects you, if you do not find her attractive, if she is unkind, whatever your standards are, she has to meet them.

Why would rejection be a failure to meet your standards? Because a base standard for all DJs should be that she has to like you, she has to want to be with you. She fails if she does not.

A true DJ will walk if she does not meet his standards because he has options, whether that is another woman, or the understanding that it is better to be alone for awhile than with a woman that does not meet his standards.

Countermart

Utilize both. Utilize it all. Any strategist should see that.
Use both. Read cues, understand the flow in your interactions,
But concentrate on bettering yourself always.
You should use every asset you have, this makes you
an unbeatable force..
Overcome yourself if you want to overcome others and
Manipulation isn't negative if no one loses.
Always make it a win-win situation with manipulation.